Prometheus, Alien: Covenant, (and likely others)

[X-SOLDIER]

Quick post to make some smiles before I leave work for my Japanese Final-


The sub-poll is no longer needed...

Behold the power of my MS Paint skills!!!!

Spoiler: The "Woody Squidward & The Deacon" Liquid Black cd cover (spoilery? Better safe than sorry?)

I made a detailed post about the thought process for the fake band on my G+ if you're inclined to check it out.



X

 

[X-SOLDIER]

And David said... http://io9.com/5920183/what-exactly-did-david-say-to-[redacted]-in-prometheus


X

 

[Mantichorus]

Spoiler

Also how far from Hadleys Hope was the derelict? Has that been destroyed too? Cos if it hasn't then I don't get why the company were so eager to get Ripley and her alien baby, they could have just collected more eggs from LV426

Spoiler

This is covered in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual - incidentally, I believe the fact that this was originally published in the early 90s, and has been re-published this year means it might tie into the Colonial Marines game. Alternatively, it's just re-publishing it due to the game and Prometheus being out this year resurrecting interest in the xenos.

Anyway, the bulk of the book is going into the tactical disposition of the Marines, the tech of their weapons and transports, etc. However, the real meat of it is a series of transcripts at the end of the book. It covers Weyland-Yutani scientists going over Ripley's report of the events of Alien ("LOL, exaggeration"), and incoming data from the events of Aliens. The last two transcripts feature the scientists concluding that derelict was shielded from the worst of both explosion and fallout of the colony exploding by a mountain chain, and then getting the go ahead to send more people in. Which is where I believe this fits into the upcoming game.

As for why they were so desperate to get to Ripley... who knows? IIRC, at least five years passes between Aliens and Alien3, so maybe something happened in the interim.

I really think I must be the only person on this board who actually liked the avp movies.

I liked the first one. The twenty minutes with jerks stops me rewatching the second one (also stopped me from watching it the first time twice).

Spoiler: RE "bug hunts"

Going back to the Tech Manual, there are mentions of Colonial Marines going against what seems to be human insurgents, and indiginous wildlife. So, I side with X's opinion on this one

And David said... http://io9.com/5920183/what-exactly-did-david-say-to-[redacted]-in-prometheus

Damn you X, I was planning on posting that!

Also, something that must have come to the minds of other W40K fans here: the Engineers create the Tyranids.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Concerning "Colonial Marines": Right now, I'm pretty excited for it. I just hope the ties to the third film are few. Hopefully, I'll have time to play it as well!

By the way, some thoughts about "Alien: Resurrection" in the wake of "Prometheus":

Spoiler

Since the Xenomorphs as we know and love them are the product of Protomorph/Deacon (a Xeno-type that would presumably have Engineer/human DNA) offspring "mating" with humans (Kane, Hadley's Hope colonists, etc.), doesn't it make the plot of "Resurrection" even more shit? Why is it such a big deal at that point that there's human DNA mixed with a Xenomorph? It's been there along the evolution of this entire Xeno strain.

Thoughts?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Spoiler: About Tres' Thoughts

The best I could come up with is that the manner in which the human DNA/the amount of human DNA that went into the cloned xenomorphs was different from what a normal facehugger/human interaction would have allowed for. But why are we even asking this, isn't the bigger question "how does cloning Ripley also clone the chestburster that was in her at the time?" or "why did we ever watch this movie?" or the like?

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Spoiler

Since the Xenomorphs as we know and love them are the product of Protomorph/Deacon (a Xeno-type that would presumably have Engineer/human DNA) offspring "mating" with humans (Kane, Hadley's Hope colonists, etc.), doesn't it make the plot of "Resurrection" even more shit? Why is it such a big deal at that point that there's human DNA mixed with a Xenomorph? It's been there along the evolution of this entire Xeno strain.

Thoughts?

Spoiler

The Xenomorphs aren't an offspring of the Deacon though. It's stuck out on LV-223 still. The Derelict from Alien is found 40 years later, but the Pilot is already petrified, meaning that the ship was already crashed on LV-426 before Prometheus took place. More evidence that the Xenomorphs were engineered prior to this, is evidenced by the mural, and the Deacon is simply the result of the events in the film.

It's not clear that W-Y is ever aware about the origins of the Xenomorphs, and only that they're attempting to clearly understand it so that they can exploit it for their bio weapons department. It's IS clear that in Resurrection, they wanted to attempt to obtain the original Xenomorph strain, thus the reason they spent all that time attempting to separate it from Ripley. All the Drone/Warrior Xenomorphs contain Human DNA, but Ripley has the queen in her, which makes her special. They spend a lot of time trying to get the queen, so that they can obtain a growing supply of Xenomorphs. I'm sure that some more about W-Y's intentions will become a little more clear in Aliens: CM.

Also, I got the artbook last night, and I'll be reading through it today looking for some more interesting ideas/information.


X

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Spoiler

I'm not saying that the Protomorph on LV-223 is related to the Xenomorphs we see in later films -- just that another creature like it burst out of the Engineer on LV-426, would have had its DNA, and laid those eggs that later implanted in Kane and the Hadley's Hope colonists. So, the human DNA was there all along.

Of course, you're probably spot on with your point about W-Y not knowing the origins/not caring and just wanting their bio-weapon farm.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I think I brought this up when L mentioned this before, but it's a bitch to find cause everything's tagged.

Spoiler

It's entirely possible that the derelict on LV-426 was carrying the eggs already, rather than carrying vases or other cargo. The eggs are all kept just inside of a stasis containment field. Also- these's no evidence of a Hive or any residue from where a queen would have needed to lay her eggs.

The only things we really know about the LV-426 derelict is that, because the helmet is built into the seat, the Engineer would have had to have been implanted before getting into the seat. He likely knew he was going to die, hence the warning/distress signal that was being broadcast. Also- whatever creature he spawned wasn't anything like the Deacon, as he had a chestburster-sized hole in his chest. He could have even crashed, since their ships are ULTRA resistant to damage. Lastly, whatever Xenomorph spawned from him was either injured, or could spit acid - hence the hole burned through the floor.

X

 

[Dana Scully]

Just saw it. Felt it was good, but not great, mostly because it was rather predictable and also because there were

Spoiler: some moments of incredible derp.

- Yes, let's all take our helmets off on the alien planet just because there's breathable air. Nevermind all the micro-organisms that we could be exposing ourselves to. I can kind of forgive this one because I appreciate that it makes it a lot easier to capture the actors when they're not wearing massive bubbles on their heads but it still bugged me.
- The crowning moment of stupid: AWWW LOOK AT THE KAWAII BABY EYESTALK SLIME CREATURE THING IT'S SO ADORABLE WHEN IT GOES ALL COBRA AND HISSES AT ME I MUST PET IT.
- When running from the massive rolling object why would you run along its trajectory and not move to the side jfc this happens all the time in movies and it annoys the crap out of me.
- The c-section. There is a reason c-sections are done extremely low on the abdomen (like just above the pubic hair line) - you need your abdomen muscles for support. If you cut through them, like what happened here, you will just crumple over the moment you try to stand up, let alone go running and jumping all over an alien planet. Idc how many staples you have, that ain't happening.

With all that said I still enjoyed it, though I felt that the Engineers were just sorta...there. Since they never really explained the motives behind their actions I never really felt anything for them one way or another.

Favourite scene was probably

Spoiler

Vickers lighting Charlie on fire and in doing so preventing a repeat of Alien, even if shit still ended up going to hell despite that.

Also the

Spoiler

giant tentacle monster vs the Engineer was kinda sweet

.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Just saw it. Felt it was good, but not great, mostly because it was rather predictable and also because there were

Spoiler: some moments of incredible derp.

- Yes, let's all take our helmets off on the alien planet just because there's breathable air. Nevermind all the micro-organisms that we could be exposing ourselves to. I can kind of forgive this one because I appreciate that it makes it a lot easier to capture the actors when they're not wearing massive bubbles on their heads but it still bugged me.
- The crowning moment of stupid: AWWW LOOK AT THE KAWAII BABY EYESTALK SLIME CREATURE THING IT'S SO ADORABLE WHEN IT GOES ALL COBRA AND HISSES AT ME I MUST PET IT.
- When running from the massive rolling object why would you run along its trajectory and not move to the side jfc this happens all the time in movies and it annoys the crap out of me.
- The c-section. There is a reason c-sections are done extremely low on the abdomen (like just above the pubic hair line) - you need your abdomen muscles for support. If you cut through them, like what happened here, you will just crumple over the moment you try to stand up, let alone go running and jumping all over an alien planet. Idc how many staples you have, that ain't happening.

With all that said I still enjoyed it, though I felt that the Engineers were just sorta...there. Since they never really explained the motives behind their actions I never really felt anything for them one way or another.

Favourite scene was probably

Spoiler

Vickers lighting Charlie on fire and in doing so preventing a repeat of Alien, even if shit still ended up going to hell despite that.

Also the

Spoiler

giant tentacle monster vs the Engineer was kinda sweet

.

Spoiler: response to derp

- I assume that they had some sort of scanning technology that would be checking for these things as well, although it did cross my mind as well.
- There are a shitton of biologists that mess with KNOWN instantly deadly creatures all the time. I just chalk it up to a lack of character development that we never find out early on that Millburn is another hands on "CROIKEY, LOOKIT THEES WAN!!!" type of biologist.
- Running along the trajectory is something that I always chalk up to people's "HOLY FUCKING SHIT" reflexes taking over their "gee, this isn't the most efficient way to avoid this" logic, but it also annoys the bajeezus outta me too.
- Not technically a c-section because the machine wasn't designed to perform that, which is why the procedure is all jacked up. But don't you know that she's more capably healed, because of the high tech medicinal space lasers.

My main WTF moment (which I also chalked up to panicked mind state)

- Fifield being the cave-savy geologist who leads them all into the Pyramid, but being the one person who gets himself (and Millburn) lost. (He did storm of in a "fuck these people and their giant dead bodies, and I'm now dealing with the reality of being created by gigantic aliens" rage).

They were apparently portrayed in a "draw your own conclusions" type of ambiguity on purpose. I just finished reading through the art book, which has a lot of little interesting tidbits of information (confirming mostly everything that I'd assumed), and VERY pretty pictures.

Glad you enjoyed it!


X

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Spoiler

I guess it is possible that the eggs we see in the Derelict were the original cargo all along, though I think many (myself too) concluded that the Xeno who emerged from that Engineer burned the hole into the floor there and laid the eggs below. I suppose it's not beyond reason, though, that a Facehugger got out of its egg a little early, climbed up, burned the hole from below, then attached itself to the sleeping Engineer (who would have then got in the pilot seat, landed and sent out the warning signal).

Another concern with this idea, though, is that if the eggs were there from the start, it's odd that the Facehugger or emergent Xeno-type didn't wake up the rest of its kind. But I suppose it may have been smart enough to realize even without a Queen directing it that the eggs and their occupants would be safer left where they were if there were no indigenous lifeforms to implant.

By the way, while there isn't any hive residue from a Queen laying eggs, I think it's not that a big deal for a reason you pointed out -- it's been a really long time since whatever went down.

Guess this is just one of those mysteries that will always be there, but is fun to speculate on.

Is the art book worth getting, by the way?

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Spoiler

@ the above discussion.
Taking in mind that during Prometheus the architecture of the area near the cockpit was exceptionally similar to how the xenomorphs change their surroundings through biological means.

The corridor leading to the cockpit in Prometheus is pretty much exactly the same as corridors that have been created by xenomorphs.

@ the discussion over resurrection.

The biggest reason they are so excited about the Ripley clone is that they managed to splice a perfect human hybrid that shares the dominant traits of a xenomorph.
Ripley 2.0 is faster, stronger and more deadly than a normal human, she shows an ability to learn that far exceeds normal humans and seems to possess psychic like intuition in regards to her surroundings.

The military ramifications of this alone are enough for the science team to be overjoyed.

Not to mention her blood is still as acidic as that of a xenomorph but her regenerative ability seems to be greater.

 

[Octo]

With all that said I still enjoyed it, though I felt that the Engineers were just sorta...there. Since they never really explained the motives behind their actions I never really felt anything for them one way or another.

Yeah, I've been playing this over in my head since I saw it, and then the other day when I saw Alien again it struck me - I really felt something for that dead fossilised Space Jockey, pity or sadness I guess, the fact that the poor sod had been dead all these years and died alone. On top of that, even though he looked pretty creepy I only ever saw him as benign (lol not just cos he was dead!) he didn't seem like a bad guy. Yeah, I got all that from a 2 minute scene

Then in Prometheus

Spoiler

Other than the engineer at the beginning, I didn't really care about the others. I think I'd sort of figured out about 2/3 through that they're not going to give us anything solid to go on. I feel that was a real shame :/

Spoiler: response to derp

- There are a shitton of biologists that mess with KNOWN instantly deadly creatures all the time. I just chalk it up to a lack of character development that we never find out early on that Millburn is another hands on "CROIKEY, LOOKIT THEES WAN!!!" type of biologist.

Spoiler

"Wooh lookit this grumpy lil' snake, a'll just stick me finger ap its bum!"

This film is set 83 years after the death of Steve Irwin! Has humanity learned nothing?!

Spoiler

- Fifield being the cave-savy geologist who leads them all into the Pyramid, but being the one person who gets himself (and Millburn) lost. (He did storm of in a "fuck these people and their giant dead bodies, and I'm now dealing with the reality of being created by gigantic aliens" rage).

The thing I don't get about that was

Spoiler

they were like screw this we're going home, but then once they figure out they are lost they don't think hey maybe we should radio someone for directions....y'know given those probes have mapped the area. Why the hell would they wander about the place that is creeping them out so much? Honestly when I first saw that bit, and then later saw them still there I'd figured they'd been given some sort of ulterior mission and the freakout was just staged! Also I am very surprised that they let them go in the first place, surely thats breach of contract? They were still exploring the place so how could they know they weren't going to come across some stuff that needed their expertise?

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Spoiler

I guess it is possible that the eggs we see in the Derelict were the original cargo all along, though I think many (myself too) concluded that the Xeno who emerged from that Engineer burned the hole into the floor there and laid the eggs below. I suppose it's not beyond reason, though, that a Facehugger got out of its egg a little early, climbed up, burned the hole from below, then attached itself to the sleeping Engineer (who would have then got in the pilot seat, landed and sent out the warning signal).

Another concern with this idea, though, is that if the eggs were there from the start, it's odd that the Facehugger or emergent Xeno-type didn't wake up the rest of its kind. But I suppose it may have been smart enough to realize even without a Queen directing it that the eggs and their occupants would be safer left where they were if there were no indigenous lifeforms to implant.

By the way, while there isn't any hive residue from a Queen laying eggs, I think it's not that a big deal for a reason you pointed out -- it's been a really long time since whatever went down.

Guess this is just one of those mysteries that will always be there, but is fun to speculate on.

Is the art book worth getting, by the way?

Spoiler: My biggest issue with that idea still involves

the fact that the eggs are contained within a stasis field that's generated by the ship. It seem VERY circumstantial that a Queen would happen to lay eggs within a containment field that would keep them preserved. Plus, unless the Queen is under extreme diress, she's not going to rip herself off of her ovipositor once she's set up to nest.

The Xenomorph that emerged from the Engineer wouldn't be able to do anything about the eggs. Facehuggers are essentially built for quick implantation, and they don't really survive for extended durations outside of the eggs (otherwise they'd be out and wandering all the time). The only real hope it would have would be to subdue other lifeforms (like the deleted scene in Alien), and either coccoon them by the eggs, or coccoon them and move one of the eggs to them.

My point about the lack of Hive Residue was also referring to the location inside the stasis field, which would have been preserved, regardless of the duration of time that's passed.

I think it's a nice quality book and a good look into some of the work that was done. I think it really comes down to whether or not your into owning artbooks like that, tbh.

Spoiler

@ the above discussion.
Taking in mind that during Prometheus the architecture of the area near the cockpit was exceptionally similar to how the xenomorphs change their surroundings through biological means.

The corridor leading to the cockpit in Prometheus is pretty much exactly the same as corridors that have been created by xenomorphs.

@ the discussion over resurrection.

The biggest reason they are so excited about the Ripley clone is that they managed to splice a perfect human hybrid that shares the dominant traits of a xenomorph.
Ripley 2.0 is faster, stronger and more deadly than a normal human, she shows an ability to learn that far exceeds normal humans and seems to possess psychic like intuition in regards to her surroundings.

The military ramifications of this alone are enough for the science team to be overjoyed.

Not to mention her blood is still as acidic as that of a xenomorph but her regenerative ability seems to be greater.

Spoiler

It's mentioned in the Artbook that the Juggernaut ship on LV-223 is a slightly newer version of the Derelict on LV-426. I also attribute the fact that they're Engineers dabbling in both human and xenomorph life that their architectures bear similarities.

Also, point well made about Resurrection.

Yeah, I've been playing this over in my head since I saw it, and then the other day when I saw Alien again it struck me - I really felt something for that dead fossilised Space Jockey, pity or sadness I guess, the fact that the poor sod had been dead all these years and died alone. On top of that, even though he looked pretty creepy I only ever saw him as benign (lol not just cos he was dead!) he didn't seem like a bad guy. Yeah, I got all that from a 2 minute scene

Then in Prometheus

Spoiler

Other than the engineer at the beginning, I didn't really care about the others. I think I'd sort of figured out about 2/3 through that they're not going to give us anything solid to go on. I feel that was a real shame :/

Spoiler

"Wooh lookit this grumpy lil' snake, a'll just stick me finger ap its bum!"

This film is set 83 years after the death of Steve Irwin! Has humanity learned nothing?!

The thing I don't get about that was

Spoiler

they were like screw this we're going home, but then once they figure out they are lost they don't think hey maybe we should radio someone for directions....y'know given those probes have mapped the area. Why the hell would they wander about the place that is creeping them out so much? Honestly when I first saw that bit, and then later saw them still there I'd figured they'd been given some sort of ulterior mission and the freakout was just staged! Also I am very surprised that they let them go in the first place, surely thats breach of contract? They were still exploring the place so how could they know they weren't going to come across some stuff that needed their expertise?

Spoiler

I got the same feeling. A lot of that is created by the atmosphere of the moment in the film. As for the Engineers in Prometheus- I think a lot of that film fills the audience with the same feelings that Shaw gets left with (an analogy I've made more than once). It's a mixture of confusion and wanting more. It's that part that makes me enjoy it, because I LOVE ambiguity that's got enough hints to let you speculate.

The Engineers are a bit of an emotional rollercoaster. First, we have the Gardener seeing life onto a barren world in a way that's very humble and touching. Then we get the whole sense of awe that Shaw and Holloway come in with. Then you see the face of the decapitated Engineer (which got to me a bit). You see the look of fear and pain on his face that would have been there as he was running for the door in the Hologram. Then there's the idea that they're all dead, and you see the HUGE pile of bodies, as you start learning about the more sinister aspect of things.

Then in the end, you're left with the Captain - who's the only chance to answer all the questions they have, and he's VERY much not like the humble Engineer you see at the beginning. He's got a very military-like feeling about him, and you're actually glad to see him get taken down (he's the film's only real antagonist). This also gives you a sense of sympathy for the Deacon after emerges from him, rather than a sense of dread that usually accompanies the birth of a Xenomorph.

Spoiler: As for Fifield,

The pups were still mapping all through the night, so it's a possibility that they were somewhere that hadn't been scanned in to the Prometheus 3D model yet, but it's not made entirely clear. I also wondered if it was some W-Y-style ulterior motives to isolate them.

As long as they're still there, I don't think that there's too much issue with letting them go off, especially if they're planning on doing a lot of research back at the ship. I'm sure once they got back, Vickers would've put them in their place.

X

 

[Unlucky]

Spoiler

Then in the end, you're left with the Captain - who's the only chance to answer all the questions they have, and he's VERY much not like the humble Engineer you see at the beginning. He's got a very military-like feeling about him, and you're actually glad to see him get taken down (he's the film's only real antagonist). This also gives you a sense of sympathy for the Deacon after emerges from him, rather than a sense of dread that usually accompanies the birth of a Xenomorph.

X

Spoiler

I maybe alone here, but don't you guys think that the Captain's reaction to the crew seemed fit for the situation at least? I mean, if I was tasked to get rid of the human race, and a bunch of nosy humans wake me up to ask this question, I think I'd be mad and hostile too

 

[Dark and Divine]

Something interesting...

 

[X-SOLDIER]

@ D&D I want to thank that post a thousand times. I've got a LOT of reading to do this weekend.



X

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I also just found this:

It's looking like there'll be a Prometheus-related announcement at SDCC this year, and the Viral Advertisements are continuing, and there's a new site up: http://www.projectprometheus.com/sdcc/

X

 

[Alex Strife]

Just watched the movie!

Actually it was finished 30 minutes ago

I quite enjoyed it, although it left so many questions that I was hoping to see answered... I do hope we'll be able to see more stuff about Prometheus. And this will probably make me watch all the Alien movies again, at some point soon

It's been quite a while since I watched them, and I'm sure I'm forgetting things, so...

 

[Octo]

And this will probably make me watch all the Alien movies again, at some point soon

It's been quite a while since I watched them, and I'm sure I'm forgetting things, so...

Yay you finally got to see it!

And yeah you should watch all the others, maybe we should arrange a streaming session?

 

[Alex Strife]

I did watch them already, but I'd love to. And streaming session may actually be a good idea.

By the way I have to say I agree with the derp moments you mentioned... except for the running! Well, kinda.

I mean, if you run to the side and the ZOMG HUGE THING is moving at a high speed, there's a chance you won't have time to move out of its trajectory. In the same way, if you just run diagonally, it may end up catching you... which is why people end up running in a straight line. Of course, in some cases it really looks stupid because they're so much far ahead.

In Prometheus' case... I honestly can't remember how far away they were, but... yes, I was also under the impression they could have made it

 

[Ghost X]

Spoiler

I just heard this theory today:

Vickers = Android.

*mind blown*

Every argument I've heard against the idea seems to have a counter argument. Even the director teased "there could be two", referring to androids. If so, she should definitely appear in the sequel, as a surprise guest. A deadly surprise guest

Excuse me if this has already been discussed, I did look at the last couple of pages

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I assumed that the scene with her and the captain was meant to indirectly disprove that, as well as her heritage as revealed later on.

I do look forward to seeing the deleted scenes on the upcoming BluRay release.



X

 

[Ghost X]

Spoiler

An android having sex only proves they've been built with genitalia and programmed with something like a sex drive. The scene may be designed specifically to inform the viewer she is indeed human, but it could also be used to throw the viewer off.

Can you elaborate on the heritage of hers that is revealed later on? I don't recall it.

With further thought on the theory, I don't really buy she's an android. The simplest explanation is often the best, and it all points to her being a human. It may not even be good for the story of Prometheus, if she was revealed to be an android in a sequel, due to her charater's role. One of which is being the corporate archetype; showing how cold and machine-like a human can be, in juxtaposition to other characters in the film (if I recall correctly).

That's not to say it can't be done, but I'm not sure if the writers are capable of making the elaborate and multi-layered story required to justify her being an android.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

http://io9.com/5942004/10-minutes-o...-reveal-a-whole-crew-of-pissed-off-scientists

10 mins of deleted scenes that should also address your questions.


X