Remake Interviews: Catch-all Thread

[pxp]

Dur, I’ve seen that thread before but forgot about it!

Anyway, surely this changes the complexion of the discussion re: Red’s voice in 7R? Ought it necessarily be deep, gruff, guttural and beast-like if based on the OG Japanese?

 

[Roger]

Dur, I’ve seen that thread before but forgot about it!

Anyway, surely this changes the complexion of the discussion re: Red’s voice in 7R? Ought it necessarily be deep, gruff, guttural and beast-like if based on the OG Japanese?

Red XIII's true character is immature in both translations. Japanese just has other means of getting that point across. His voicequality itself shouldn't reflect that, anymore then his appearance does. He should be capable of scaring Aerith with his growl when he first meets the crew.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

After the initial shock that the "beast" in the Shinra building can speak, it does seem clear (in both English and Japanese) that part of what throws the party off in dealing with Red XIII is that he has this very mannered, proper--honestly, the British expression you guys have been using, "posh", is the best way to sum it up--way of speaking. As mentioned in the "Found in Translation" series, this is partially meant to reflect his attempts to consciously seem more mature, but either way, the "beastly creature with manicured speech patterns" is a part of his character.

 

[pxp]

Red XIII's true character is immature in both translations. Japanese just has other means of getting that point across. His voicequality itself shouldn't reflect that, anymore then his appearance does. He should be capable of scaring Aerith with his growl when he first meets the crew.

After the initial shock that the "beast" in the Shinra building can speak, it does seem clear (in both English and Japanese) that part of what throws the party off in dealing with Red XIII is that he has this very mannered, proper--honestly, the British expression you guys have been using, "posh", is the best way to sum it up--way of speaking. As mentioned in the "Found in Translation" series, this is partially meant to reflect his attempts to consciously seem more mature, but either way, the "beastly creature with manicured speech patterns" is a part of his character.

Aye that’s precisely what I meant, there should be that variance which will be difficult and interesting to get right. The surprise occurs as soon as he starts speaking, though, so his default ought to be ‘posh’ I think.

Maybe that’s what you guys were already saying and I misinterpreted. If so apologies

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Aye that’s precisely what I meant, there should be that variance which will be difficult and interesting to get right. The surprise occurs as soon as he starts speaking, though, so his default ought to be ‘posh’ I think.

Maybe that’s what you guys were already saying and I misinterpreted. If so apologies

I find the whole conundrum/crisis/debates over specifically the vocalization (as opposed to the characterization/physical depiction, etc) of characters that have been with us for 20 years + fascinating. One, bc it's a reminder of how much has changed, and how much that period was the end of an era for gaming. And two, which I suppose is more an extension of the first, the fact that the purely text-based nature of the original is what enables this wonderful, messy, crazy situation to occur in the first place--we've all played the same game, but our individual imaginations filled in the gaps with things like voices in potentially radically different ways. So cool

 

[pxp]

I find the whole conundrum/crisis/debates over specifically the vocalization (as opposed to the characterization/physical depiction, etc) of characters that have been with us for 20 years + fascinating. One, bc it's a reminder of how much has changed, and how much that period was the end of an era for gaming. And two, which I suppose is more an extension of the first, the fact that the purely text-based nature of the original is what enables this wonderful, messy, crazy situation to occur in the first place--we've all played the same game, but our individual imaginations filled in the gaps with things like voices in potentially radically different ways. So cool

Definitely - and as has been pointed out on another thread here and elsewhere, it’s something that will be inexorably lost in 7R, but what you can you do?!

 

[Deleted member 546]

^ So much these comments. My brother and I used to narrate the text when we did longer gaming sessions and I ain't one to brag but my Scarlet voice was nasal and annoying as fuck. That was when we decided that Red should be growly and I've never really questioned it.

 

[T@ctic]

interesting video on what i was asking a few weeks ago

i usually like this channel but this guy gets it almost all wrong. he doesn't even care if the buster sword is scrapped?!? come on man...

 

[Roger]

interesting video on what i was asking a few weeks ago

i usually like this channel but this guy gets it almost all wrong. he doesn't even care if the buster sword is scrapped?!? come on man...

I very much dislike him presenting the Compilation as a cohesive whole in itself by mostly ignoring everything save Crisis Core.

 

[T@ctic]

well that's because almost everything is totally ignorable except for that lol. i mean in the post i shared people immediately were worried about CC, i don't think anyone cares much for the worst received games and wouldn't mind if S/E silently scrapped them.

and as much as people hate genesis, he is not anything like ariane. he simply looks like and is voiced by gackt. that's it.

 

[Roger]

XV's

well that's because almost everything is totally ignorable except for that lol. i mean in the post i shared people immediately were worried about CC, i don't think anyone cares much for the worst received games and wouldn't mind if S/E silently scrapped them.

and as much as people hate genesis, he is not anything like ariane. he simply looks like and is voiced by gackt. that's it.

Don't think that most anyone that lack a PSP cares much if CC gets ignored either, which is a majority of the target audience. And if someone means Crisis Core, they should say Crisis Core, Crisis Core is part of the Compilation, Compilation by no rights means "primarily Crisis Core".

 

[T@ctic]

we're at the age when you don't need to play games to know about it or enjoy it, so i doubt if someone hasn't played CC (any game for that matter) that doesn't mean they don't know or care about it.

of course the compilation doesn't mean one game, i'm just saying CC has a much more staple presence in it than the others, which is why it almost completely took up the video's content.

 

[Roger]

we're at the age when you don't need to play games to know about it or enjoy it, so i doubt if someone hasn't played CC (any game for that matter) that doesn't mean they don't know or care about it.

of course the compilation doesn't mean one game, i'm just saying CC has a much more staple presence in it than the others, which is why it almost completely took up the video's content.

FFVII has an even greater staple presence then Crisis Core, I would argue. Yet the Remake being different from that does not provoke a response.

 

[Ite]

we're at the age when you don't need to play games to know about it or enjoy it, so i doubt if someone hasn't played CC (any game for that matter) that doesn't mean they don't know or care about it.

of course the compilation doesn't mean one game, i'm just saying CC has a much more staple presence in it than the others, which is why it almost completely took up the video's content.

I watched (abridged) playthroughs of DoC and CC on YouTube, and certainly those two and AC are the most well-known of the spin-offs. I doubt that many people outside of this forum finished DoC because it was an incoherent and frustrating mess with what looked like clunky gameplay and (like AC) was about one character essentially repeating their arc from the original game with the rest of the cast making only brief cameos.

I for one don't believe they're going to scrap the Compilation, I think that's a harmless lie they're using to protect themselves. The truth is, they can't scrap it. It's not like the people making it don't know about the entries. The statement, from my perspective, is a statement that they won't be trying to create a centralized hub-story enmeshed in the Comp but rather make their own new thing. But Square Enix has been living with these entries for 15 years now, it's impossible to erase it entirely, even if they tried. If the trees in the Forgotten City don't glow white like magic salt, I'll eat my hat. Like, I just had to google the original pre-rendered background to make sure they WEREN'T white in the OG.

Spoiler: Other Silly Predictions

AC - the most well-known, many people's entry point into FF7 and FF in general. The most likely to retroactively change the story in FF7:R, either by adding Denzel or cluttering the ending with some more "I will never be a memory" bull.
BC - super obscure, Shademp-level obscure. Could be mentioned in a throwaway statement by Reno, probably sarcastically mocking whoever died in it.
CC - pretty well-known, if people forked over the money for a PSP they probably played it. Twice as many people watched the cutscenes on YouTube. Regardless of whether they keep the Banora apple or Modeoheim or the holodeck in Shinra HQ, CC will influence what they do with the backstory, not by adding Genesis, but through the characterization of Zack, the legacy of the Buster Sword, and perhaps most saliently with Yuffie's relationship to Sephiroth.
DC - more people know of it than people who played it. "Mixed reviews" is a generous statement. Perhaps a reference to Omega Weapon or Deepground will be easter eggs for the completionist gamer.

 

[Lex]

This might sound weird, but I actually have faith in SE's ability to completely ignore their own material. I agree in principle with what you're saying Ite, but I don't think the people working on this remake are actively thinking about the compilation purely because the people working on the compilation clearly didn't give a shit about the original game. Square Enix is utterly incapable of maintaining consistency, even in direct sequels (look at X's or XIII's). You could easily supplant the mask of VII on the compilation games with something else and nobody would notice it was even supposed to be related. I think the same will hold true for the remake (re: the compilation, not the OG).

 

[ForceStealer]

I actually have faith in SE's ability to completely ignore their own material.

Exactly. I don't know why anyone would expect Square to start being consistent now. They'll include what they feel like and exclude what they don't. As I've stated before, I would prefer compilation stuff as optional postgame stuff, but I would bet money they're treating this as completely it's own thing. Which isn't quite the same as a reboot, it's just that Square (and maybe Japanese media at large) simply cares a lot less about canon than we do.

 

[ChipNoir]

Even if they wanted to, they kind of neatly clipped all of the compilation stuff into being hidden from anyone during VII's time. All of the new characters are either dead or deep in hiding during the events of the main game. ShinRa keeps all secrets highly classified too. So there's very little room to reference anything besides maybe some obscure memory of Genesis, and anything where Zack and Cloud were in the same scene. Cloud's time in ShinRa during BC is largely irrelevant, and would be obscured by his memory issues.

So really, Square doesn't 'have' to acknowledge the compilation, since you're meant to play all those games AFTER you have the metaknowledge of the OG.

 

[hian]

Well, they've been upfront about the fact that the remake won't be in the same continuity as the compilation, but the trailers we've had so far also clearly show the remake to be going in a different direction than the original game, although to what degree we can only guess.
So, as I've said before I'll say again - I have no doubt ideas, scenes or characters from the compilation might make its way into the remake, but they will be no more consistent with the titles they're lifted from than the the ideas, scenes and characters from the OG were consistent when they were put into the comp or other spin-off material.

If you don't expect the Nibelheim incident to play out frame by frame like it did in the original, I see no reason what so ever to expect it to play out exactly like it did in CC, or that Zack's death, for instance, will play out frame by frame like it did in CC.

The remake is its own thing. I'm fairly sure will have its own story, and its own take on the plot in a vacuum seperate from the rest of the franchise.
That does not however mean that ideas, scenes or characters from the comp won't survive and be represented in a new iterative form in the remake.

 

[ForceStealer]

Fully agreed hian.

And you too Chip, I've also said before. Even if it was sloppily done at times the point was that no one in VII's time would know about compilation things. So even if none of it appears...that's what technically SHOULD happen, according to the compilations intent.

 

[Claymore]

This might sound weird, but I actually have faith in SE's ability to completely ignore their own material. I agree in principle with what you're saying Ite, but I don't think the people working on this remake are actively thinking about the compilation purely because the people working on the compilation clearly didn't give a shit about the original game. Square Enix is utterly incapable of maintaining consistency, even in direct sequels (look at X's or XIII's). You could easily supplant the mask of VII on the compilation games with something else and nobody would notice it was even supposed to be related. I think the same will hold true for the remake (re: the compilation, not the OG).

Can we just pin this? Damn, we really need some news soon.

 

[Roger]

Even if they wanted to, they kind of neatly clipped all of the compilation stuff into being hidden from anyone during VII's time. All of the new characters are either dead or deep in hiding during the events of the main game. ShinRa keeps all secrets highly classified too. So there's very little room to reference anything besides maybe some obscure memory of Genesis, and anything where Zack and Cloud were in the same scene. Cloud's time in ShinRa during BC is largely irrelevant, and would be obscured by his memory issues.

So really, Square doesn't 'have' to acknowledge the compilation, since you're meant to play all those games AFTER you have the metaknowledge of the OG.

\

Fully agreed hian.

And you too Chip, I've also said before. Even if it was sloppily done at times the point was that no one in VII's time would know about compilation things. So even if none of it appears...that's what technically SHOULD happen, according to the compilations intent.

Unless he gets a braininjury at the very end of Before Crisis that I don't know about, Tseng knows everything about Cloud while dealing with AVALANCHE in FFVII. And Cloud has no reason to relate the Nibelheim Incident to the crew without Genesis if there was never a Nibelheim Incident without Genesis. It only ever happened the one way, he remembers what the Makonoid looks like, having only ever seen it through Zack's eyes, he remembers every word of Zack and Sephiroth's conversation until Genesis arrives, he has no reason to think Genesis is irrevelant to the story. The only thing Cloud does not know is that Genesis willingly trapped himself in a bubble underneath Midgar and definitely won't be factor. Just like Zack's death only ever happened the one way, it does or does not involve many thousands of bodies and Zack talking and lifting the buster Sword more easily then Cloud on his deathbed or not.

Then there's Lucretia, no going around the fact that she was perfectly capable of talking in FFVII, but was silenced from all the myriad secrets she has concerning the true horror of Vincent's condition by being trapped in a crystal. And Hojo. Either he does see Vincent turn into Chaos during the game, the inevitable harbringer of the Planet's doom, and downloads himself to a computer when Yuffie and Vincent make trip back to Midgar or doesn't.

This stuff will either appear in the Remake or it doesn't, if it doesn't it's because it's stonecold did not happen that way in the Remake, none of this they don't remember BS.

 

[ForceStealer]

You can say that all you want. But I would not be the least bit surprised to see it completely absent from the remake only to show up in something else.

 

[Roger]

You can say that all you want. But I would not be the least bit surprised to see it completely absent from the remake only to show up in something else.

That's fine, Remake shouldn't be beyond subject to change later on either but people that see no problem with the Compilation retconning FFVII left and right, no problem with the Compilation retconning itself left and right, no problem with the prospect of the Remake retconning the original but when Remake intends to not abide by the Compilation go "Whoa, let's not get crazy! Maybe the characters just aren't hearing, seeing and remembering things right but it still totally happened." are incredibly baised and unreasonable.

 

[ForceStealer]

So what do you do if BOTH versions of the Nibelheim scene are in the remake? Sans Genesis in the Kalm flashback, but then the one with him in some optional postgame Modeoheim dungeon, presented as an aspect that Cloud wasn't aware of?

I'm not being unreasonable. I'm saying that making declarative statements about what canon says or doesn't say RE the compilation and the remake is setting yourself up for failure.

 

[Roger]

So what do you do if BOTH versions of the Nibelheim scene are in the remake? Sans Genesis in the Kalm flashback, but then the one with him in some optional postgame Modeoheim dungeon, presented as an aspect that Cloud wasn't aware of?

I won't do anything, though I have a difficult time imagining this. Cloud can't even tell the story of the Nibelheim Incident without Barret consistently interrupting, why would Genesis not test Barret's patience even more, when he's not even offering similarly comfy beds for the occasion?

I'm not being unreasonable. I'm saying that making declarative statements about what canon says or doesn't say RE the compilation and the remake is setting yourself up for failure.

Only if it's too much to ask that one course of events is true in regards to one installment's interpretation of the story. If it is too much to ask I don't wanna be right.