Scarlett Johansson signs on to star in Dreamworks' 'Ghost in the Shell'

[Strangelove]

Straight from Max Landis the writer & director of the film:

of ghost in the shell? unless the internet is lying to me, i don't see anything about him writing or directing this (instead rupert sanders directing and 3 other non-max-landis people with writing credits)

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Straight from Max Landis the writer & director of the film:

of ghost in the shell? unless the internet is lying to me, i don't see anything about him writing or directing this (instead rupert sanders directing and 3 other non-max-landis people with writing credits)

Definitely misread it when skimming the article it was attached to:

Writer and director Max Landis (“American Ultra”) then published a YouTube
video titled, “If You’re Mad About ‘Ghost In the Shell,’ You Don’t Know How
The Movie Industry Works,” in which he defends the caucasian actress for
starring in the film.

I italicized where I jumped from one line to the next.




X

 

[Channy]

Am I a horrible person that I can't stop laughing at this?

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Looks like a sampling from the Japanese Internet is mostly a less outrage-fueled version of the rest of the Internet: http://kotaku.com/the-japanese-internet-reacts-to-scarlet-johansson-in-gh-1771544034




X

 

[ForceStealer]

Because the Japanese don't care about this shit the way we (the West) do, for better or worse.

What amuses me is people suggesting Chinese actresses. I don't mean to speak for them, but I would expect that the Japanese might be much more comfortable with a white person playing her than a Chinese one.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Because the Japanese don't care about this shit the way we (the West) do, for better or worse.

What amuses me is people suggesting Chinese actresses. I don't mean to speak for them, but I would expect that the Japanese might be much more comfortable with a white person playing her than a Chinese one.

Yeah, does anyone remember the fits that were thrown about the Chinese actresses in Memoirs of a Geisha, or is just me?

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Because the Japanese don't care about this shit the way we (the West) do, for better or worse.

What amuses me is people suggesting Chinese actresses. I don't mean to speak for them, but I would expect that the Japanese might be much more comfortable with a white person playing her than a Chinese one.

I think that this comment pretty much sums that up:

“If it’s going to be an Asian in Hollywood, then it would be someone like Lucy Liu. Scarlett Johansson is fine.”

But yeah, that's something that I don't think a huge portion of the people who know that they should feel offended about this don't grasp is that the, "not all Asians are the same and frequently mistaking/replacing one for the other is even more frowned upon." I remember that my second set of Japanese exchange students that lived with us during High School thought it was hilariously ignorant that one of the book stores had a Japanese-English dictionary with a picture of a Chinese woman on it.


In an ideal world, Rinko Kikuchi would've been who I'd've cast, but that probably comes as zero surprise to anyone.




X

 

[Channy]

Is there any reason why Rinko wasn't? She got some recognition from Pacific Rim so I imagine she would have been.... Star-ish enough almost?

 

[AvecAloes]

Is there any reason why Rinko wasn't? She got some recognition from Pacific Rim so I imagine she would have been.... Star-ish enough almost?

I guess starrish enough almost isn't quite box office gold, though. To be perfectly honest, I had to look up who she was, as I wasn't familiar with her name, nor did I see Pacific Rim.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah I honestly never heard of her until I saw people start throwing her name around for this.

But, as stated, that wouldn't have any impact on whether or not I would have seen this movie. (Which I don't really think I will, given that I've never seen Ghost in the Shell.)

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Is there any reason why Rinko wasn't? She got some recognition from Pacific Rim so I imagine she would have been.... Star-ish enough almost?

I guess starrish enough almost isn't quite box office gold, though. To be perfectly honest, I had to look up who she was, as I wasn't familiar with her name, nor did I see Pacific Rim.

It's exactly JUST that.

Now I've gotta get into detail, because while we've touched on the subject all over the thread, I don't think that it's been laid out in detail in one big poast. so....–

Scarlett's got her role as Black Widow in Iron-Man 2, Avengers, & Cap 2 that put her in the spotlight as the single strong and main female in the MCU. Then she had that Indy film Under the Skin with just her presence that (even if not financially great was overwhelming loved by basically everyone that saw it). That success of sorts got her in Lucy, which in turn means that she's proven as a star actress to be singularly reliably bankable enough to be the lead for Ghost in the Shell. That presence is what they count on to be able to pre-sell the film for the VFX budget that the film needs (not to mention that most of those roles of hers also work to show that she can nail this role specifically).

On top of that, she has to be internationally bankable as a headliner which takes an already relatively thin list and narrows it down even more. (And, not to nitpick, but if they DID do a GitS film with Rinko Kikuchi, I think that she'd be better off doing the dialogue in Japanese rather than English).


Now, to refresh everyone, the videos that Gabe & I posted pretty much outline ALL of this stuff – both in general (with Adi Shankar) and in specific (with Max Landis). It goes over all the mechanics really thoroughly from two people who know the industry inside and out. I honestly can't recommend watching them enough to get a good handle on this.

The tl;dr from the whole thing is that Scarlett Johansson was cast for her star power and bankability to be able to fund the film. This wasn't a role in a pre-funded film that would've been available to a minority actress who was passed over. The reason that there aren't minority stars that HAVE that star power who could've been cast is a by-product of white-washing or not making roles for minorities in Hollywood films that are already being bankrolled by big studios.

This is why when I did a write-up (which admittedly has some errors in it) before Max Landis' video was made, I specifically called it out as something OTHER than white-washing, because I want to make sure that people recognize the fundamental differences, even if they're part of an interconnected cycle – if you're going to criticize it, you need to understand it.

As a direct comparison (despite it eventually being a terrible film) The Last Airbender was fully funded by Nickelodeon and M. Night's own production company, so while they COULD HAVE AND SHOULD HAVE cast minority actors for their respective roles in the film, they didn't. Similar things happened with Pan and the role of Tigerlily. THAT is white-washing, because it's eliminating existing roles from minorities who could use them to get exposure that would eventually give us minority stars who could be cast as a front-liner to be able to independently fund films like Ghost in the Shell.

THIS is just the second step down that broken system, where the film is essentially always required to be, "Ghost in the Shell <with big star actress>" and then it's up to them to take that as a given and make up for it after the fact. Part of which I feel is something like casting Beat Takeshi whose star power doesn't mean anything outside of Japan, but this gives SOME minorities a chance at becoming bigger stars with the other roles, rather than filling out the rest of the cast with other big name celebs.





X

 

[Clement Rage]

Because the Japanese don't care about this shit the way we (the West) do, for better or worse.

What amuses me is people suggesting Chinese actresses. I don't mean to speak for them, but I would expect that the Japanese might be much more comfortable with a white person playing her than a Chinese one.

I think that this comment pretty much sums that up:

“If it’s going to be an Asian in Hollywood, then it would be someone like Lucy Liu. Scarlett Johansson is fine.”

But yeah, that's something that I don't think a huge portion of the people who know that they should feel offended about this don't grasp is that the, "not all Asians are the same and frequently mistaking/replacing one for the other is even more frowned upon." I remember that my second set of Japanese exchange students that lived with us during High School thought it was hilariously ignorant that one of the book stores had a Japanese-English dictionary with a picture of a Chinese woman on it.


In an ideal world, Rinko Kikuchi would've been who I'd've cast, but that probably comes as zero surprise to anyone.




X

Meh. Americans get cast as Germans, and English, and South Africans, and Russians, and Australians, and so on all the time.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Meh. Americans get cast as Germans, and English, and South Africans, and Russians, and Australians, and so on all the time.

Well, white people in America are frequently a melting pot of... all of those other caucasian cultures. Plus, Aussies and Brits play Americans all the time too. Not to mention that the history and current racial tensions between America and Germany, England, South Africa, Russia, & Australia are very, VERY different than those between Japan and China & Korea. Those things are far from equivalent comparisons (assuming that's the point you were making, and not glossing over the even bigger White person in a Minority role bit).




X

 

[Geostigma]

I think Lucy is the real kicker here that seals the deal big time.

It was a brand new IP with honestly an absurd premise and plot. Critically it was polarizing and that movie made a shit load of money and locked in a sequel and graphic novel deal as well.

She sold that movie on name alone. The director was a nobody(He did Taken but no one knows Taken for it's director) , no one knew what "Lucy" was and I'm pretty sure ,even though he's awesome , people didn't go to see it for Morgan Freeman.

It made 460 million on a 50 million euro budget. Even factoring Marketing that's insane and generally margins like that are only reserved for shitty found footage movies. AND it's a fuckin FRENCH film it didn't even come out of Hollywood lol.


She made a no name, no budget movie bring in half a billion dollars on name alone. Ofcourse she's gonna be the go to female lead for any action movie that desperately needs to fill the seats.

GitS is not a house hold name. Its no Airbender or Dragon Ball Z. Sure it's awesome but you aint filling seats with legions of mid 20's adults who grew up on this shit so they need something else to bring in the crowd.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

To be fair, Luc Besson's not exactly THAT obscure as a director, even if most of his BIG stuff is a little older - The Fifth Element, La Femme Nikita, Léon: The Professional he wrote & directed, and he wrote all of The Transporter films in addition to Taken.





X

 

[Geostigma]

Yeah but that's about it. Current general audiences aren't going to flip out out if in the trailer it said "From the Director of Transporter!". Sure It could pique some interest if it said "of Taken" instead but even by the time Lucy came out Taken 2 was already 2 years old and his other recent credits weren't great (The Family).

Not including pre-selling , I don't think mentioning Besson's name contributed nearly as much as Scarjo did in filling those seats and as far as Pre-Selling GitS goes the box office take away for Lucy definitely goes a long way for it in her favor as well.

edit:

Actually just double checked and I was mistaken he only has writer and producer credit for the Taken franchise and Transporter 2. So for pre-selling they could use that for sure, but imo the only use they would get out of him for selling to an audience would be to say "From the Writer of Taken" lol, and I'm pretty sure as far as general audience those usually don't help that much unless it's like Stephen King or Spielberg lol.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I like making the comparison that IF this had managed to be Ghost in the Shell that was produced by Disney & directed by Steven Spielberg &#8211; there is NO WAY that Scarlett Johansson should've gotten the lead role. Had that scenario taken place, it would've been 100% white-washing, since they'd've already been totally funded and that role for Motoko Kusanagi would have been available for a minority actress &#8211; potentially even as a brand new break-out role &#8211; in a way that it never did with this incarnation of the film.

Again, that specifically is why I think that the nuances to how this happens/happened is exceptionally important here.




X

 

[Geostigma]

Yeah.

I think the perfect example would actually be Dr. Strange here. They have Tilda Swinton playing the frickin Ancient One in this movie it looks like. Disney and Marvel can definitely afford to cast appropriately here.

But carry on internet. Complain about casting in a movie that realistically needed it but don't bring up Disney casting the whitest woman on earth to play an ancient Tibetan man.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Welllllllll......... Even that has its own set of reasons for doing it, which is that I think that they're attempting to avoid the "talented white guy appropriating Asian culture" by making the Ancient One an ambiguously gendered, neutrally ethnic mystic to negate the that aspect of it, since Iron Fist already has to walk down THAT slippery slope of cultural appropriation (though for good reason and with LOTS more nuance than Strange's story), but I kinda feel like we're derailing a little bit into territory that ought to move to Hollywood & Whitewashing thread that I made for this exact purpose.





X

 

[Blade]

Domestically it is true. Internationally, less so I'd imagine. The domestic market is SO fucking dumb, and why I'm glad that the International market makes such a big impact in films now.

I dunno... the Japanese market can be just as dumb as Hollywood sometimes, if PLANZET the movie is any indication.

 

[Geostigma]

Japan is India tier when it comes to movie markets

 

[Hisako]

To be fair, Luc Besson's not exactly THAT obscure as a director, even if most of his BIG stuff is a little older - The Fifth Element, La Femme Nikita, Léon: The Professional he wrote & directed, and he wrote all of The Transporter films in addition to Taken.





X

Yeah, your comparison is terrible, Gabe. Luc Besson has a handful of solid hits under his belt - he's not a superstar director but "a film by Luc Besson" these days might certainly have "from the director of Taken" on the list.

Those industry talk videos are very interesting, though. It's cool to see the Ghost in the Shell film in that context, especially whenever we heard news like "OMG SPIELBERG IS GUNNA DO IT" and then the whole "OMG SCARLETT JOHANNSON IS THE LEAD"

 

[Geostigma]

To be fair, Luc Besson's not exactly THAT obscure as a director, even if most of his BIG stuff is a little older - The Fifth Element, La Femme Nikita, Léon: The Professional he wrote & directed, and he wrote all of The Transporter films in addition to Taken.





X

Yeah, your comparison is terrible, Gabe. Luc Besson has a handful of solid hits under his belt - he's not a superstar director but "a film by Luc Besson" these days might certainly have "from the director of Taken" on the list.

Those industry talk videos are very interesting, though. It's cool to see the Ghost in the Shell film in that context, especially whenever we heard news like "OMG SPIELBERG IS GUNNA DO IT" and then the whole "OMG SCARLETT JOHANNSON IS THE LEAD"

Except he didn't direct Taken

Off the top of my head from what I recall on his wiki entry earlier today the best stuff he directed was legit Fifth Element in the 90's and his most recent director credit prior to Lucy was The Family.

My point was basically comparatively more people saw Lucy based on Scarjo and not Luc Besson. Honestly I think my point holds water that movie made mad skrilla based on Scarjo being able to fill those seats and it helped lock in her role as a definite A List female lead. It's no surprise they are basically treating her like the Rock now, i.e. using her as a guarantee to fill seats.

 

[Strangelove]

I like making the comparison that IF this had managed to be Ghost in the Shell that was produced by Disney & directed by Steven Spielberg – there is NO WAY that Scarlett Johansson should've gotten the lead role. Had that scenario taken place, it would've been 100% white-washing, since they'd've already been totally funded and that role for Motoko Kusanagi would have been available for a minority actress – potentially even as a brand new break-out role – in a way that it never did with this incarnation of the film.

where's james cameron or someone buying up the rights to something when you need it

it's one thing to say that there's no big name japanese/asian stars to carry the role, but there's never going to be one if you don't give them the roles.

(i'm saying this in an idealistic way, since i get why they would pick big name actors and why it's been made the way it is)

What amuses me is people suggesting Chinese actresses. I don't mean to speak for them, but I would expect that the Japanese might be much more comfortable with a white person playing her than a Chinese one.

there are plenty of those comments too ('better a white person than a chinese/korean')

even some of the few that mention rinko kikuchi don't seem that positive (including insults about her face and her apparently looking korean)

 

[ForceStealer]

even some of the few that mention rinko kikuchi don't seem that positive (including insults about her face and her apparently looking korean)

...