Sephiroth The Purpose Seeker

[Skan]

... where's the fear of failure in that line?

I think that's just Sephiroth realizing that, despite all his success, even he is disposable in the eyes of a shady mega-corporation if he shows any signs of misconduct (like Genesis and Angeal).

We see this time and time again from ShinRa: They order the deaths of Genesis and Angeal. They order the deaths of the Turks. It's this idea of "if we can't have them working for us, then we'll just get rid of them, 'cause we can't let them work for the enemy!" Very us vs. them mentality. Sephiroth thought he was above all that, and I imagine he'd never thought he'd be put in the position where he'd have to decide if he was for or against ShinRa. He was a tool, he knew he was a tool, and for the better part of his sane life, he decided he didn't care that he was a tool.

 

[jazzflower92]

... where's the fear of failure in that line?

I think that's just Sephiroth realizing that, despite all his success, even he is disposable in the eyes of a shady mega-corporation if he shows any signs of misconduct (like Genesis and Angeal).

We see this time and time again from ShinRa: They order the deaths of Genesis and Angeal. They order the deaths of the Turks. It's this idea of "if we can't have them working for us, then we'll just get rid of them, 'cause we can't let them work for the enemy!" Very us vs. them mentality. Sephiroth thought he was above all that, and I imagine he'd never thought he'd be put in the position where he'd have to decide if he was for or against ShinRa. He was a tool, he knew he was a tool, and for the better part of his sane life, he decided he didn't care that he was a tool.

And of course ShinRa wouldn't care about Sephiroth's personal problems and would only care if he managed to do anything to damage the company's reputation. Until the Nibelheim incident they would expect Sephiroth to be unquestionably loyal to them and never think of defecting/ betraying them. Although the last thing they should not have done is sent him to the place where he could possibly go off the handle. Then again it implies that Hojo had a hand in sending him to where Jenova was just to see what would happen if Sephiroth came into contact with her.

 

[Skan]

^ Yeah, I believe Hojo had a hand in sending Sephiroth to Nibelheim. If ShinRa knew that was going to happen, I don't think they'd let him anywhere near that town.

I found it mildly interesting when Sephiroth admitted to Zack that he may desert ShinRa. It really begs the question of wtf he'd do if he had deserted in the way he said he would. I doubt he really thought that one through ... you desert, you get ShinRa hounding your tail, and then what? What kind of "purpose" would he have chased then? I can almost imagine him trying to chase after Genesis for some closure, but then what?

That might be an interesting story actually. Buddy up with Genesis, join AVALANCHE, save the Planet from ShinRa (in a non-maniacal, planet-destroying way). Sephiroth/Genesis/Elfe against Zack/Cloud/Turks. Tell me who to root for.

 

[jazzflower92]

^ Yeah, I believe Hojo had a hand in sending Sephiroth to Nibelheim. If ShinRa knew that was going to happen, I don't think they'd let him anywhere near that town.

I found it mildly interesting when Sephiroth admitted to Zack that he may desert ShinRa. It really begs the question of wtf he'd do if he had deserted in the way he said he would. I doubt he really thought that one through ... you desert, you get ShinRa hounding your tail, and then what? What kind of "purpose" would he have chased then? I can almost imagine him trying to chase after Genesis for some closure, but then what?

That might be an interesting story actually. Buddy up with Genesis, join AVALANCHE, save the Planet from ShinRa (in a non-maniacal, planet-destroying way). Sephiroth/Genesis/Elfe against Zack/Cloud/Turks. Tell me who to root for.

That actually would be a good fan fiction idea that could be even better than canon. It would defiantly be a Gray and Grey morality situation if the set up was like that.

 

[Skan]

Throw in a DG uprising and AVALANCHE 2.0 getting its game on, and you've practically got some GRRM-level shit right there.

 

[jazzflower92]

Throw in a DG uprising and AVALANCHE 2.0 getting its game on, and you've practically got some GRRM-level shit right there.

Oh, yeah the tsviets probably would have something to do in all of this as well.

I also wonder how Sephiorth would encounter Vincent and Aerith in this AU. Vincent because he would tell him about his real mother and Aerith because of the fact of finding out one way or another she is the daughter of Gast. I have a feeling that Sephiroth would have even more hatred for Hojo after he learned how the scientist killed Gast and experimented on his wife and child for seven years.

 

[Skan]

Yeah, and throw in Genesis-is-Aerith's-half-brother-and-Gast's-son and we've got some real family drama brewing. (Sorry, I like this odd piece of headcanon. It makes a lot of sense and would set up some nice Sephiroth/Genesis vs. Zack/Turks conflict right there.)

Someone else should adopt this plot bunny and try not to turn it into one big orgy.

 

[jazzflower92]

Yeah, and throw in Genesis-is-Aerith's-half-brother-and-Gast's-son and we've got some real family drama brewing. (Sorry, I like this odd piece of headcanon. It makes a lot of sense and would set up some nice Sephiroth/Genesis vs. Zack/Turks conflict right there.)

Someone else should adopt this plot bunny and try not to turn it into one big orgy.

And everybody realizes it that it all ties back to Hojo and they decide to take turns kicking the guy's butt.

 

[Roger]

^ Yeah, I believe Hojo had a hand in sending Sephiroth to Nibelheim. If ShinRa knew that was going to happen, I don't think they'd let him anywhere near that town.

I highly doubt Hojo would send Sephiroth to Nibelheim had he known that was gonna happen.

I found it mildly interesting when Sephiroth admitted to Zack that he may desert ShinRa. It really begs the question of wtf he'd do if he had deserted in the way he said he would. I doubt he really thought that one through ... you desert, you get ShinRa hounding your tail, and then what? What kind of "purpose" would he have chased then? I can almost imagine him trying to chase after Genesis for some closure, but then what?

Well in the Japanese version he talks about the possibility Shinra turning on him, rather then him deserting of his own volition.

That might be an interesting story actually. Buddy up with Genesis, join AVALANCHE, save the Planet from ShinRa (in a non-maniacal, planet-destroying way). Sephiroth/Genesis/Elfe against Zack/Cloud/Turks. Tell me who to root for.

I don't think Genesis has it in him to work with Sephiroth, even if the latter did defect tho. Stealing Sephiroth's glory was half his motivation. When saving his own life (the other half of his motivation) required him to ask for Sephiroth's help, he screwed it up by being a dick about it.

 

[Clement Rage]

I think sending Sephiroth to Nibelheim is more likely a straight screw up rather than somebody's diabolical plan. Very few people knew about JENOVA, someone who didn't heard 'dragon attack' and decided 'Ok, somebody important has to deal with that'.

n fact one thing that bugs me is the fact that the war with Avalanche and Genesis were going on at the same time but nary a peep about the other in both games.

Because SOLDIER are overkill for AVALANCHE. Sephiroth gets called against them twice, and both times solves the problem in three seconds without any particular effort. The most they achieve is converting two 2nds, who while probably not the worst, we have no reason to believe they were super special. They just have separate responsibilities.

As for the Turks, they're of only so much value against Genesis copies. Genny himself barely notices Tseng, and when Zack bumps into Reno and Rude all they do is literally get in his way. You can't really do spy stuff against an organisation where everyone has the same face. So they do background stuff like interrogate Hollander.

And a Genesis and AVALANCHE don't really have the same goals. I think I remember Genesis saying 'I'll take the world with me!" in combat at some point, but that could have been Weiss.

The Genesis/Elfe dynamic would be interesting.

Elfe: So, why do you want to join AVALANCHE?

Genesis: I'm terminally ill due to Shinra science experiment performed without my will knowledge or consent.

Elfe: (Ticks box) Great. Group on the left.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well, to be fair, Genesis's "take the world with me if I don't make it" goal isn't terribly different from Fuhito's.

As for Hojo and Nibelheim, the Ultimania Omega for VII does suggest that Hojo's rapid arrival with Shin-Ra troops implies he was ready in case something like that happened, and that the scientist may have had Sephiroth sent there, probably just to see what would happen if he got close to JENOVA.

 

[Skan]

I wonder if Sephiroth actually did save Genesis if that would've fixed their relationship. I imagine Genesis would be grateful on the one hand, but it's likely he'd still be an utter snot about it (whether outwardly or inwardly), just because it was Sephiroth who had to go and save him.

I don't think jealousy was motivating him in CC, but that's my interpretation. I do think he was very jealous of Sephiroth, but I don't think it provided the primary drive for his actions in the game.

Yeah, Genesis said that he'd take the world with him, but I think he was just being overdramatic. All his actions in the game were focused on (a) curing himself, and (b) getting revenge against ShinRa, which lines up pretty well with AVALANCHE's actions. Also, just because AVALANCHE nominally wants to save the world, and Genesis wants to nominally destroy it doesn't mean they can't work together, esp. if both plans involve the destruction of ShinRa in some form. So, yeah, I think getting Genesis to work with AVALANCHE is actually the easiest bit to write around once you futz with the timeline a bit.

 

[jazzflower92]

I wonder if Sephiroth actually did save Genesis if that would've fixed their relationship. I imagine Genesis would be grateful on the one hand, but it's likely he'd still be an utter snot about it (whether outwardly or inwardly), just because it was Sephiroth who had to go and save him.

I don't think jealousy was motivating him in CC, but that's my interpretation. I do think he was very jealous of Sephiroth, but I don't think it provided the primary drive for his actions in the game.

Yeah, Genesis said that he'd take the world with him, but I think he was just being overdramatic. All his actions in the game were focused on (a) curing himself, and (b) getting revenge against ShinRa, which lines up pretty well with AVALANCHE's actions. Also, just because AVALANCHE nominally wants to save the world, and Genesis wants to nominally destroy it doesn't mean they can't work together, esp. if both plans involve the destruction of ShinRa in some form. So, yeah, I think getting Genesis to work with AVALANCHE is actually the easiest bit to write around once you futz with the timeline a bit.

All I wonder is if he would annoy AVALANCHE with his tendency to spout inane poetry all the time. I think that would be the biggest con of having Genesis join them.

 

[Roger]

Because SOLDIER are overkill for AVALANCHE. Sephiroth gets called against them twice, and both times solves the problem in three seconds without any particular effort. The most they achieve is converting two 2nds, who while probably not the worst, we have no reason to believe they were super special. They just have separate responsibilities.

I don't think they were super special, but as far as I know Essai and Sebastian were 1sts. And besides them and Zack their whole SOLDIER unit was destroyed.

 

[Skan]

I thought Essai and Sebastian were 2nds. Their uniforms are originally red iirc; they just turn black after their stint in the Raven tanks.

I wish AVALANCHE had done more with the Raven tanks & the mind-control aspect of them. I always wondered how ShinRa would deal with a mass breakout of za'tarcs in their ranks.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I double checked. Essai and Sebastian's uniforms were the same color as Zack's before they got captured. After becoming Ravens, their uniforms were a sort of sickly greyish green.

 

[Clement Rage]

Hmm... so why do I remember them as seconds? Generally, I have a good memory for useless facts.

And I thought the rest were army regulars, not SOLDIER.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I believe that is the case about the regulars, yeah.

As for the two being 2nds, maybe you thought Zack was supposed to be a 2nd at the time? BC's Episode 7 definitely happens after Angeal's death, though, since Zack has the Buster Sword at this point.

EDIT: Yep, Episode 7 was in January of 0002. Angeal died a few months before that.

 

[Unlucky]

I don't think Seph was actively seeking for a purpose in his pre-crazy days, although there were lingering feelings of doubt and mistrust in him that led to his loneliness and insecurity. But he was the best at what he does, and he was glorified for it, so he kept doing it. This is treading on headcanon considering Crisis Core, but I like to think that Angeal and Genesis' defection affected him not so much because they were his 'best friends', but because they made him question himself why he's working for these Shinra idiots-- and that's when he started to become interested in his origins, in everything about himself outside of just fighting. And then came the Nibelheim mission and his psychotic bitchfit (which, in my head, is the only moment in his life where he felt true, raw emotion).

 

[jazzflower92]

I don't think Seph was actively seeking for a purpose in his pre-crazy days, although there were lingering feelings of doubt and mistrust in him that led to his loneliness and insecurity. But he was the best at what he does, and he was glorified for it, so he kept doing it. This is treading on headcanon considering Crisis Core, but I like to think that Angeal and Genesis' defection affected him not so much because they were his 'best friends', but because they made him question himself why he's working for these Shinra idiots-- and that's when he started to become interested in his origins, in everything about himself outside of just fighting. And then came the Nibelheim mission and his psychotic bitchfit (which, in my head, is the only moment in his life where he felt true, raw emotion).

And it makes one wonder if Sephiroth before he turned fully crazy was hiding how really emotionally and mentally unfit he really was. As much as he kept himself in a stoic manner he still seems to have hints of the fact that not everything with him was 100% ok. Socially looking at Sephiroth you would know how he might be a master on the battlefield but in regular life he really seems to fail interacting with others. Seen with his fight with Genesis he also lacks the restraint to know when to stop.

In some ways Sephiroth remained a child and never fully learned to grow up. One can say being trained to be the ultimate warrior stunted all of the rest of his skills as a human being.

 

[Keveh Kins]

I don't think Sephiroth fails entirely at interacting with others. He seems to get on fairly okay with Zack and Tifa during the Nibelheim expedition and he's quite patient with them when he explains the materia fountain to them. He even acknowledges that most people would consider the decisions he makes to be very cold, like when he decides not to look for the soldier that went missing.

I reckon Sephiroth's got standard enough social skills and can hold a conversation, he just has very little interest in anything that he didn't need to for his work. He could debate all day about materia use and processing, but materia is so common in the game that people treat it much the same way we treat alot of modern conveniences, they're just there and we wouldn't really be arsed discussing them. Sephiroth probably could say a lot but no one else is interested in it so he doesn't. Midgar, Shinra and the people who live under their rule are all very reflective of modern day capitalism, we love the shit we get but we don't often question its origins, what else it can be used for etc. Sephiroth would likely have studied this stuff based upon his dialogue in game and so could debate for hours on end about it but no one else in Midgar society aside from someone like Hojo is interested. Maybe if he'd grown up in Cosmo Canyon he'd have had more friends and maybe a more conscientious view of materia usage from having people who are equally interested in the subject matter to debate with.

I do apologise for that, kinda slipped a bit too into headcannon rantyness there

 

[Clement Rage]

Socially looking at Sephiroth you would know how he might be a master on the battlefield but in regular life he really seems to fail interacting with others. Seen with his fight with Genesis he also lacks the restraint to know when to stop.

His best friend was trying to kill him, he's entitled to discourage that, I think. And he does seem to have more reservations than Genesis.

Socially, Seph does okay, he's aware enough to give Cloud permission to go home, and tell Zack he's free to check on Aeris. He's distant, but that comes naturally from being the poster boy of SOLDIER.

 

[Unlucky]

Yeah, what they said. He's not completely unsociable, just aloof.

If there's anyone who I think fails at social interactions, it's probably Genesis. Because he's always trying to be better than everyone when he's not quoting poetry. Angeal puts up with him because they're childhood buddies. /headcanon

 

[Keveh Kins]

^ And when he is quoting poetry nobody knows what in the name of feck he's talking about

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I always thought Genesis was like the smart, socially awkward literature nerd who ended up in a job that didn't fit him well. I don't know, I've met several people who know Shakespeare that well who are either in theater, or are literary profs. Genesis has always seemed to be more cut out for academia/the arts then the military...