Sephiroth: What the fuck happened?

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

Crisis Core did little to humanize Sephiroth that FF7 hadn't tried to do, he was still the same loser, with the same lame attitude, just with added interactions with other people.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

I take it someone isn't a Sephiroth fan... :monster:
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

[quote author=Dacon link=topic=272.msg7165#msg7165 date=1231606164]
Crisis Core did little to humanize Sephiroth that FF7 hadn't tried to do, he was still the same loser, with the same lame attitude, just with added interactions with other people.
[/quote]

Awwww. >:( Be nice! :P But seriously, I agree with you on the lame attitude part, though I think we gave good reasons as to why that is.
 

OneWingedDemon

NOT AMUSED
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

("Ever since my childhood I could feel it. I was different than other people"
Well, maybe he should cut his fucking hair for once, and wear a shirt.

That having been said, I think Sephiroth probably harbored a deep resentment for those different from him. Probably envy too, but hey breeding ground for resentment, so I'm gonna go there. I always felt that Sephiroth expressed more bitterness/anger than sadness or angst over his past. He wanted to experience simple things like what it is to have a hometown and experience that sense of belonging and commonality ("So how does it feel? I wouldn’t know because I don’t have a hometown"), but I don't quite think the man has a great deal of empathy, and I think he probably acts/reacts as he thinks people would in a number of given situations.

Genesis and Angael may be an exception, because they are both like him in many ways. Although they don’t exactly know what it is that makes them different, those differences do unite them. But even the famous trio isn’t exactly a symmetrical relationship. Sephiroth still seems to stand outside the tight circle of Angel/Zack or even Angael/Genesis. Worth noting is that Sephiroth is always portrayed in this manner, even in Dissidia. There is also the distinct possibility that this relationship with them could be viewed as Sephiroth considering them an extension of himself – freaks like him
He could be a fucking narcissist. :monster:

There’s a great deal of anger, more so than sadness even over the betrayal. It’s about him, really. He was betrayed, or made to face the fact that all of them were not who he thought they were and once again, he’s outta the loop. Once again, he’s an outsider.
And they seem to have found a purpose, unlike Sephiroth.

Before Nibelheim, I think he probably viewed himself as incomplete, somewhere below "human" on the scale and I think he’d have liked to be one of them. This is probably a source of his great anger; all this time, he'd been made to feel as if he lacked something essential, only to discover that the ones lacking were the ones who tried to control him and use him for their own purposes. He has had to bend to the will of someone who is, technically, inferior.

I don’t know, I never saw Sephiroth as someone who needed a hug. I don’t think he was a dandy person who found out he was a lab rat and then went bananas. I mean, yes, it affected him and clearly there’s all that psychobabble about taking back the planet and the mothermothermother shit, but it’s not Sephiroth in his great depression turning to Jenova’s motherly affections. We all know he pretty much makes her his puppet afterwards. I think he is angry that his (technically) “mother” and someone like him/of his kind was put through the same shit as he – Jenova was imprisoned/used/studied and shit and he is angry/a possessive bitch. I think Jenova prolly helped to push him off the edge, but sadness didn't break his little heart.

That’s that Jenny? Take back the planet? Why yes, these shitheads are undeserving of our greatness anyway. And who the fuck do they think they are?

As he dissolved in the Lifestream and then remade himself/gathered knowledge of the Ancients, I assume he came to know Jenova was not an Ancient, and that’s probably why he later dropped his “I am the rightful heir to this planet” bullshit. But he kept the “I wanna go planet hopping like my mommy, and suck the life outta things because I CAN!” His sadistic nature isn’t really something that is shown to have been present prior to the Nibelheim incident, so I assume his interest in puppeteering was born of the fact he was made into someone else's bitch and thus, with his newfound powers/knowledge, he wants to do the same onto others. Reunion, Negative Lifestream etc. He wants everything to bend to his will. Cloud gets the brunt of it because he happened to piss Sephiroth off by – GASP- defeating him/breaking up with him. Stupid failed experiment! YOU’RE MAH PUPPET, BITCH!

but merely "misunderstood".
The emo teenagers demand it! Sephiroth is lame if you make him into an angstball that only needed someone to love him and understand him.

The man really isn't misunderstood, imo
 

Ravynne Nevyrmore

that one Lucrecia fangirl
AKA
Ravynne
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

Sephiroth misunderstood, which is the tragic part, but he himself isn't misunderstood. I think we understand him just fine; it's Sephiroth who fucked up the interpretations of everything else.

And lack of character development is a lame excuse for "mystery."

Allow me to present to you the most mysterious charcacter evar: There was once a man named Bob. We don't know his last name. In fact, his first name isn't even Bob. We don't know his first name. Actually we don't know anything else about him, either. HE'S SO MYSTERIOUS.

Pulitzer plz.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

Warrior of Light. (aka: Fighter McWarrior)

Most mysterious FF character ever. Hell, he doesn't even know himself :monster:

 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

Eh.

The answer is quite obvious to this question.

Sephiroth discovered the cake was a lie.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

Gast: We has Cetra!
Lucrecia: Now we go to the Promised Land!
Hojo: Wait! The cells are a lie!
Sephiroth: NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'S MONSTER!

The entire backstory of FFVII and Sephiroth's angst in under twenty words.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

LOL. Poor Sephiroth, I almost feel bad for him.

I guess behind that cold exterior, he was just emotionally weak. >;
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

Eh, I guess what many think of as mysterious I just think of as poor introspection. With the inclusion of Crisis Core in the story, I think it gave us enough to at least connect the dots.
The only mysterious thing about him... was the extent of his strength before the whole controlling of Jenova cells. We only get a few glimpses, and Square has been pretty good in keeping it pretty sparse. IMO, if Square made a game where Seph was a controllable character... that would ruin the mysterious allure of his character, at least for me.

I always got the impression that Sephiroth always thought himself better than anyone else... so yeah, not too big on the whole misunderstood thing. The narcisism is something I could definitely see, though.
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=272.msg7573#msg7573 date=1231792404]
Gast: We get signal
Lucrecia: Main screen turn on
Hojo: All your base are belong to us!
Sephiroth: /wrist
[/quote]

fixxed, :monster:
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

The only mysterious thing about him... was the extent of his strength before the whole controlling of Jenova cells. We only get a few glimpses, and Square has been pretty good in keeping it pretty sparse.

I just think that's a stupid way for Square to have an excuse to keep having him do ridiculously overpowered shit whenever they want.
 

OWA-2

Pro Adventurer
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=272.msg7522#msg7522 date=1231780524]Sephiroth misunderstood, which is the tragic part, but he himself isn't misunderstood. I think we understand him just fine; it's Sephiroth who fucked up the interpretations of everything else.[/quote]

I think it's the contrary. Sephiroth isn't misunderstood, because he learned everything about himself in the Lifestream. His dialogue in Nibelheim(present time), in the Temple of the Ancients, Northern Crater, and Midgar's ruins(AC), proves that.
It's a bunch of fans that forget about this, and misunderstand him. They remember the Nibelheim-incident, but forget everything else after that.

I remember reading an interview with Nomura, where he said that he didn't understand why so many people feel sad and pity for Sephiroth.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

Well I think the focus was on Nibelheim here because the the topic was about what actually happened that made him snap so fast.

But yes, after he spends 5 years in the Lifestream he knows pretty much everything there is to know and is merely evil. He was only a tragic villain in Nibelheim, once he figured everything out in the Lifestream he decided that he would make a new world as he saw fit and concocted his plan.

So yes, your point stands, no one should (and rarely do they) consider Sephiroth "misunderstood."

Ravynne said:
Pulitzer plz

hahahahaha ;D
 

Ravynne Nevyrmore

that one Lucrecia fangirl
AKA
Ravynne
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

I think it's the contrary. Sephiroth isn't misunderstood, because he learned everything about himself in the Lifestream. His dialogue in Nibelheim(present time), in the Temple of the Ancients, Northern Crater, and Midgar's ruins(AC), proves that.
It's a bunch of fans that forget about this, and misunderstand him. They remember the Nibelheim-incident, but forget everything else after that.
True, post-Lifestream. I think most of the pity for him comes from Nibelheim and the events leading up to it, though—not the Sephiroth after that. What he did later may have been unexcusable, but it's not wrong for people to still feel sympathy for the man he was before that, who lived a tragic life and met a tragic end.


I remember reading an interview with Nomura, where he said that he didn't understand why so many people feel sad and pity for Sephiroth.
Even after gaining the knowledge of the Lifestream, though, he didn't gain the understanding of the Ancients. He only has his own life, upbringing, and experiences through which to process and interpret this information, which was a fucked up upbringing to begin with. Thus, I maintain my opinion that it's not wrong for us to feel sadness or pity for him, regardless of what Nomura thinks of the way we feel about his character.

And I rarely dispute Nomura.
 

Andalegogo

Rueful Figure
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

I agree with what's been said about Sephiroth's fall being tragic, even disgraceful, after taking into account how his instability negated all of his previous experience and power. A guy with such a prestigious reputation ended up tainting his own name by destroying a town of innocents and then being killed by a young man far beneath him in nearly every way.

Of course, I have always found it difficult empathizing with his new perspective. He conquered Jenova, learned the truth, and regained his reasoning. All of his actions after absorbing the Knowledge were his own, and I don't think there's much info lending to him being insane. Sephiroth just seemed to have embraced the notion of being a "monster" and followed that role, thus allowing himself to use his power to its fullest extent for his own pleasure.

I thought Genesis's emphasis on himself, Angeal, and Sephiroth being monsters, and then having the three of them attempt meeting that ultimate role helps put some things in perspective. I always figured that the whole point of having the "Loveless" theme in CC was to show how each person can have their own interpretation of their role in life. Angeal chose to reject the future he believed he was fated for, Genesis sought to redeem his existence as a potential threat to the planet, and Sephiroth embraced what he thought he was.
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

Personally, I agree that Sephiroth was not misunderstood. I think he was a man who really didn't leave much if anything to guess about, before Nibelheim. He had wit, but that depends on the recipient of the wit. An example comes to mind in Crisis Core's part, where in Junon, Sephiroth hints to Zack about the attacks on Midgar and the slums. It was subtle to a degree, but I chauk that up to Zack being stunned and speechless at the time. I think overall, he made himself clear; as for being insane, well that doesn't entirely mean that you are misunderstood. Sephiroth is a part of a kind that no one knows about; the Cetra really only knew two things about Jenova: 1) she crashed into the planet via the meteor and 2) she was a danger to life as they knew it. I would guess Gast, Hojo, Hollander, et al. knew not even that, not until Gast's videos were gathered after Ifalna and Aerith were taken away. As far as we can guess, Sephiroth may actually believe he has the power to do so, when he mentions all he's going to do. That's insane, of course, but his intentions are quite clear. As well, due to Jenova and whatever he gained from her as well as the Lifestream... He may very well have transcended into a different state of being that we humans would view and describe as insane - but for Jenova, would not be. I mean, traveling in space is one thing we've been told in and out of game she does...
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=272.msg9184#msg9184 date=1232261166]
Am I the only one who just skips over Arianna's posts?
[/quote]

Thanks a lot! >:( ::) :P

... Really, I'm not sure how to take this, but I feel it is totally uncalled for.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

Yeah well, it's not like you say stupid shit. It's just that you use that BRIGHT YELLOW text that hurts to read and that you don't use paragraphs, makes your posts pretty painful to sift through.
 
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

[quote author=Arianna link=topic=272.msg9209#msg9209 date=1232297517]
[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=272.msg9184#msg9184 date=1232261166]
Am I the only one who just skips over Arianna's posts?
[/quote]

Thanks a lot! >:( ::) :P

... Really, I'm not sure how to take this, but I feel it is totally uncalled for.

[/quote]
The reason is the chosen colour for your text. It hurts the eyes. Choose something a bit more neutral. Do not feel offended, it is simply a practical issue.

Oh, and about Sephiroth... Yeah, basically everything has been said. He did not care to be a hero and while with Shinra he was still looking for a greater purpose.
And when you are the most powerful being on the planet, what stops you from leaving all traces of compassion and empathy behind? Nothing, especially since conscience is not part of the Shinra school curriculum.
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=272.msg9217#msg9217 date=1232299762]
Yeah well, it's not like you say stupid shit. It's just that you use that BRIGHT YELLOW text that hurts to read and that you don't use paragraphs, makes your posts pretty painful to sift through.[/quote]
... and ...

[quote author=Shademp link=topic=272.msg9220#msg9220 date=1232300042]The reason is the chosen colour for your text. It hurts the eyes. Choose something a bit more neutral. Do not feel offended, it is simply a practical issue.[/quote]

Ah... Sorry. I thought it would make it easier to read. :-\ I will keep it neutral from here on...

As for paragraphs, I will try to be more grammar and reader conscious. :P
 

Dawnbreaker

~The Other Side of Fear~
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

The point is valid, but the way it was delivered wasn't exactly the way someone from staff should deliver it. Simply bitching about something isn't a solution. Offering a compromise or a resolution is.

Anyways, I particularly like the point of how Sephiroth being evolved sort of negated teh whole point of sanity. I mean, perhaps to his "species" he is sane. We might view how animals treat each other as insane, but that's not how they 'view' it. Perhaps every sort of species follows a different code of behvariour and morality, and us being the savage race we are, really are we any better?

Not that I'm saying anything he's doing is even remotely on the scale of sane or good whatsoever, just something to think about is all.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Re: Sephiroth: What the fucked happened?

The point is valid, but the way it was delivered wasn't exactly the way someone from staff should deliver it. Simply bitching about something isn't a solution. Offering a compromise or a resolution is.

I mentioned a problem, and it was resolved. That's how I communicate, and it does get things done, so take it or leave it.

Anyways, I particularly like the point of how Sephiroth being evolved sort of negated teh whole point of sanity. I mean, perhaps to his "species" he is sane. We might view how animals treat each other as insane, but that's not how they 'view' it. Perhaps every sort of species follows a different code of behvariour and morality, and us being the savage race we are, really are we any better?

Yeah, but that assumes that Sephiroth wasn't acting on the power of free will.

 
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