Sephiroth: What the fuck happened?

[Masamune]

Gast doesn't have to be at the mansion 24/7, but he must have been there when the decision was made, because (again) Vincent says he couldn't stop them. If this had happened without Gasts' supervision, why would he be associated with them? And let me remind you that it was only the principle of Lucrecia's child that Vincent took issue with.

Gast could have been doing anything whilst Vincent confronts Hojo and tastes lead. Hojo, being the psychotic opportunist he is, decides to create a monster, and then Gast returns to his horror and decides to bail out before finishing his work.

 

[Ⓐaron]

why would he be associated with them?

because he was in charge of the Jenova Project? Vincent could just be faulting him for not being aware of everything Hojo was up to and therefore not being there to put a stop to the unethical stuff.

 

[BWAngel]

If Square had meant for Gast to be present at the Jenova transfusion, they would've shown him as there. To me, the fact that he's not there in most of the Nibelheim sequences is clearly intended to give us the impression that he didn't stick around for long and probably wasn't aware of a lot of what Hojo was doing. Hell, the reason he felt guilt to begin with could've just been for not keeping a closer leash on Hojo while he was doing all his Frankenstein's monster experiments.

But in CC and FFVII during the Nibelheim basement sequence he asks Gast why did he tell him, why did he die. He must have been around for Sephiroth to remember such stuff.

 

[Ⓐaron]

obviously Gast would've been there some if he was overseeing the project, I just always got the impression that injecting Lucrecia was Hojo's doing. Otherwise the Ultimania would've mentioned that Gast had a hand in it as well, rly.

 

[Masamune]

because he was in charge of the Jenova Project? Vincent could just be faulting him for not being aware of everything Hojo was up to and therefore not being there to put a stop to the unethical stuff.

He says "I was unable to STOP Professor Gast and Hojo...etc." If you take that at face value, instead of making assumptions, you can see they were all in it together.

Just because Gast wasn't there when Vincent, Hojo and Lucrecia had their domestic, and Vincent was experimented on, doesn't mean he didn't perform or authorize Project S.

 

[Ⓐaron]

As I stated above, I don't think the original English translation is particularly worth taking at face value because it's often just blatantly wrong. This is the game that said "Attack while it's tail's up" when it meant "Don't attack while its tail's up," that gave us such immortal lines as "This guy are sick" and "Beacause you are a puppet." The translation team that handled it were clearly not exactly experts in English, so the implied meanings may not necessarily be the intended ones. If that does turn out to be a reliable translation of the original Japanese, then I'll concede the point that it's possible Gast actually was directly involved, but the official translation is just so execrable that it's simply not worth considering a more reliable source than what we see in cutscenes and in the Ultimania. And as I said, what we see in cutscenes and in the Ultimania indicates that Gast was not directly involved with the creation of Sephiroth.

 

[Masamune]

If you removed 'Gast' from that quote, you would never question its validity. The mistranslations you exemplified are typos, grammatical errors; they don't throw in a character's name who shouldn't be there, when the sentence otherwise else reads true.

Unfortunately, I cannot find the original Japanese of that part; but the burden of proof is still with you.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I dunno about that, I question the validity of almost every line in the original FFVII translation tbh I probably wouldn't question it quite as much though, because it would make more sense in context with the rest of the game than the official translation.

I don't doubt that Gast's name is probably there in the original quote, but my guess is that there's a more complicated sentence structure indicating that Gast was less responsible than Hojo was. Of course, that guess could be completely wrong, in which case I'd just conclude that the source materials are ambiguous as to how much responsibility Gast should be attributed: Vincent says he was involved, the Ultimania and a series of cutscenes suggest he wasn't.

 

[Masamune]

There's still nothing that absolves Gast of involvement with Project S, and every reason to suspect he was involved. We know that he was head of the Jenova Project, and no evidence proves that it was Hojo, and Hojo alone, who performed and sanctioned the experiment.

 

[Ⓐaron]

If you're not going to accept the Ultimania's lack of connection between Gast and Project S and the fact that Gast never appears in any cut scene involving Project S as indicating that the question of whether Gast had involvement with the project is left canonically ambiguous at worst then I really don't think anything I can say is going to convince you.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Gentlemen gentlemen, your disagreement stems in retcon.

FF7:
Vincent: "I'm against it! Why experiment on humans?"
Hojo: "She and I are both scientists."
- cue Lucrecia lowering her head -

DoC:
Vincent: (to Lucrecia) "But using your own child for an experiment?"
Hojo: "HA! I don't know what you're implying, but both of us are scientists. We know what we are doing."
- cue thinly veiled baby daddy drama -

~~

FF7:
Vincent: ""I was unable......to stop Professor Gast and Hojo... And Lucrecia... I was
unable to stop them... All that I was able to do was watch... That is my punishment..."

DoC:
Vincent: "All I did was watch... I didn’t even try to stop her...and then..."

~~

FF7:
Gast was seen walking into the mansion with the other three at the beginning of Vincent's flashback.

CC Q&A Interview:
"Q2-1: What is the time difference between the start of Jenova Project S and Jenova Project G? And out of Genesis, Sephiroth and Angeal, is Genesis the eldest?

A2-1: Project S and Project G began at roughly the same time. They were lead by Hojo and Hollander respectively, and the department head Gast has little participation in either project."

~~

FF7:
Sephiroth: "Hojo of Shinra, Inc. ... An inexperienced man assigned to take over the work of a great scientist."
Sephiroth: "But, even doing this, will never put you on the same level as Professor Gast."
Sephiroth: "Professor Gast, leader of the Jenova Project and genius scientist, produced me."
Sephiroth: "Professor Gast... Why didn't you tell me anything? ...Why did you die?"

New Compilation info:
Some profiles imply he was only 25 in FF7, which would mean he was...like 2 and a half when Gast left? At the oldest? And that's if he knocked up Ifalna immediately after running off.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

...Oh.

Wait real quick;

New Compilation info:
Some profiles imply he was only 25 in FF7, which would mean he was...like 2 and a half when Gast left? At the oldest? And that's if he knocked up Ifalna immediately after running off.

Sephiroth was at least 30 at the time of FF7.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Sephiroth was at least 30 at the time of FF7.

Well that's what I think, too, based on logic, but aren't they trying to say he was 25 now?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

He was around 25 in Crisis Core.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Which renewed my faith in their ability to stick to their own shit but then I thought I saw something else after that that contradicted it. Maybe I was mistaken.

Oh, I remember. Vincent's age. They were trying to say the Jenova Project happened about 25 years before FF7.

 

[Aya]

Well that's what I think, too, based on logic, but aren't they trying to say he was 25 now?

Ater playing CC I thought they had changed Sephiroth's age.

 

[Andalegogo]

IIRC, Vincent is supposed to be about 57 in FF7.

Sephiroth is "approximately" 30 years old in FF7 (or would be if he were living). At the time the Nibelheim Incident goes down, Sephiroth is about 25.

What's been said that changes this?

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Almost every reference to Vincent's age and how long he slept in the new material? This is a good place to start:

Vincent Valentine Character Profile p. 68-71

I don't like it, because it doesn't make any sense, like Hojo being old in the flashbacks. I'd prefer it to be a mistake...like Hojo being old in the flashbacks. But that's what's there. And I'm pretty sure I saw a more specific reference to Sephiroth being 25ish as of FF7 too, but I can't recall where so for all I know I could have made that up.

 

[Dark and Divine]

My belief is that Sephiroth was around 27 in FFVII and 29 in AC.

I'm based in the fact that it was stated that Sephiroth, Angeal and Genesis were born around 20 years before Crisis Core, and CC begins 7 years before FFVII.

So, that would put Sephiroth at age 22 by the time the Nibhelheim Incident occured and at age 27 at the beginning of FFVII.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I think that's too young. Genesis and Angeal are already 25 by the time Crisis Core begins. I think that Sephiroth is just flat out 30 years old.

 

[Andalegogo]

SE doesn't help much with some of their profiles as they tend to toss around the words "approximately" and "roughly" around quite a bit.

I find it annoying how they try and maintain Sephiroth's allure by hiding his age when we already know how old Genesis and Angeal are. Sephiroth is just a few months younger than they are, and the developers already say it's fine to think of them all as the same age.

The Jenova Project is said to have begun "approximately" 30 years before FF7, and I assume Project G was initiated soon after, with Project S just a few months after that. Vincent is said to have been 27 years old at the time, and at the time of FF7 "approximately" 30 years have passed, putting Vincent at about 57 years.

I suppose their saying that Vincent had been asleep for "roughly" 20 years can be reconciled because of the fact that Verdot actually met Vincent "approximately" 29 years after the Jenova Project had begun. Somehow 29 might count as being "roughly" within the scope of twenty years, since it hasn't exactly amounted to thirty years.... >___>

Honestly it doesn't rub me as much of a big deal, so I'm sorry if I don't burrow much deeper into ze subject...

I vill go now.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

I think Sephiroth is 25 when he goes to Nibelheim and 30 in FFVII.

 

[Aya]

Remember Genesis and Angeal are older than Sephiroth.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

I think Genesis and Angeal are about a year older than Sephiroth, not just a few months. I infer this from the fact that Project S sought to remedy the mistakes of Project G, and Angeal and Genesis were deemed failures when they were babies. I'd assume they'd have waited until that point to start concieving Sephiroth. So assuming he was concieved right away he might be just 9 months younger than them, and if it took a few months he might be a year or so younger than them.

According to a FF7 NPC in Cosmo Canyon, Jenova was discovered by Gast "about 30 years ago." It may have taken some time for them to start with Genesis and Angeal after discovering Jenova. I mean how quickly did it take them to even come up with the idea to inject this shit into unborn babies? But "about 30 years" could mean a little over 30 years, too.

 

[ForceStealer]

I think Sephiroth is 25 when he goes to Nibelheim and 30 in FFVII.

Well...would he have really aged between then? Since he had to reconstitute his body and all.

And I agree about the approximates and stuff. They're always sure to give us their bloodtypes, why not useful info? lol And I've said it before, but it always bugged me how Marlene's age for AC was listed as N/A. Come on! She was 4 in FF7 and its two years later, figure it out!