Sephiroth: What the fuck happened?

[megas_sephiroth]

Well...would he have really aged between then? Since he had to reconstitute his body and all.

I was wondering about that as I wrote the post...

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

When we speak of Sephiroth's age, like Vincent's or Lucrecia's, we're not really speaking of their physical ages, but how much time has lapsed since their births.

Also, "What the fucked happened?" was far more epic IMO.

 

[Masamune]

Gentlemen gentlemen, your disagreement stems in retcon.

FF7:
Vincent: "I'm against it! Why experiment on humans?"
Hojo: "She and I are both scientists."
- cue Lucrecia lowering her head -

DoC:
Vincent: (to Lucrecia) "But using your own child for an experiment?"
Hojo: "HA! I don't know what you're implying, but both of us are scientists. We know what we are doing."
- cue thinly veiled baby daddy drama -

~~

FF7:
Vincent: ""I was unable......to stop Professor Gast and Hojo... And Lucrecia... I was
unable to stop them... All that I was able to do was watch... That is my punishment..."

DoC:
Vincent: "All I did was watch... I didn’t even try to stop her...and then..."

~~

FF7:
Gast was seen walking into the mansion with the other three at the beginning of Vincent's flashback.

CC Q&A Interview:
"Q2-1: What is the time difference between the start of Jenova Project S and Jenova Project G? And out of Genesis, Sephiroth and Angeal, is Genesis the eldest?

A2-1: Project S and Project G began at roughly the same time. They were lead by Hojo and Hollander respectively, and the department head Gast has little participation in either project."

~~

FF7:
Sephiroth: "Hojo of Shinra, Inc. ... An inexperienced man assigned to take over the work of a great scientist."
Sephiroth: "But, even doing this, will never put you on the same level as Professor Gast."
Sephiroth: "Professor Gast, leader of the Jenova Project and genius scientist, produced me."
Sephiroth: "Professor Gast... Why didn't you tell me anything? ...Why did you die?"

New Compilation info:
Some profiles imply he was only 25 in FF7, which would mean he was...like 2 and a half when Gast left? At the oldest? And that's if he knocked up Ifalna immediately after running off.

Ah, Ravynne, where were you four days ago?

From the Compilation point of view, I do not hold Gast equally responsible since it says he had little involvement with the projects - whereas in FFVII he is implicated in affairs. I do still, however, find him partly responsible for his erroneous evaluation of Jenova's true identity.

 

[Makoeyes987]

He's definitely partly responsible. I was just contesting to him being the one to ok Sephiroth's creation

That was Hojo and Lucrecia personally.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Yep, basically what Mako said

 

[Valerious]

if sephiroth is between age 25 to 30...
does tat make president shinra super old? and whoever is in the shinra company like forever...
esp tseng.. =/

 

[Arianna]

Well, Hojo and Lucrecia created the male fetus to begin with, but it was the Jenova project that created the Sephiroth we know, both pre- and post-mental breakdown.

Sadly, that's probably the best way to put it.

The Jenova cells so merged with Sephiroth's initial DNA that - who knows what he would have been without them.

Still, the ultimate approval for both sides of the Jenova project, I believe greatly, would definitely be in Gast's hands.

He didn't know exactly what Jenova was, and in so thinking that his team had unearthed a Cetran preserved, they began experimenting with this 'Cetran' and other living creatures...

I believe that experimentation with all living creatures, including humans, was always the ultimate goal of the Shinra scientists. Was it not said (somewhere) that Shinra wanted to create the ultimate super-human?

One may have little participation in the projects at hand, but that doesn't mean one does not sign the papers or make the orders to have them done. It's just as equally Gast's issue as it is Hollander's and Hojo's.

Which does make me wonder why Vincent never went to Gast about it.

... Also, perhaps Jenova's DNA makes Sephiroth's memory extraordinarily good? Especially if he can remember something way back when he was two!

As for the other people in regards to age: I always felt they were around the same age or younger in regards to Sephiroth - at least Reno, Rude, Tseng, and Rufus. For whatever reason, I think Lazard was older, but probably not by many years. Whatever - I have no proof, just speculation.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Sephiroth would have been a normal dude without his Jenova cells. Sure, he still may have been a pretty talented and intelligent fellow, but it's the Jenova cells that makes him who he is and gives him his gifts.

... Also, perhaps Jenova's DNA makes Sephiroth's memory extraordinarily good? Especially if he can remember something way back when he was two!

Huh?

 

[Ⓐaron]

She's saying he might be able to remember stuff that happened abnormally early in his childhood (such as Gast's presence at the lab) due to Jenova.

 

[Valerious]

so in short... Jenova is the main actor.. or actress...

 

[Dark and Divine]

She/it is more akin to a secondary character who did something relevant to the plot, but it is now eclippsed by the main actor.

 

[Arianna]

She's saying he might be able to remember stuff that happened abnormally early in his childhood (such as Gast's presence at the lab) due to Jenova.

Yup; while I guess it's possible, how many people really remember when they were two years old?

EDIT:

Now I have to laugh - this makes me think of when Sephiroth said he can remember how Genesis would always read LOVELESS...

When the poor guy gets something 'stuck' in his head, it's probably overkill!

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Now I have to laugh - this makes me think of when Sephiroth said he can remember how Genesis would always read LOVELESS...

When the poor guy gets something 'stuck' in his head, it's probably overkill!

That's probably why he went crazy, he couldn't stop hearing Genesis quoting Loveless in his head...

And here we all were, blaming poor Jen, shame on us.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

if sephiroth is between age 25 to 30...
does tat make president shinra super old? and whoever is in the shinra company like forever...
esp tseng.. =/

Tseng wasn't in the company forever. I think some of the materials say that he's been in the Turks for like 10 years or so as of FF7. He may have joined when he was an older teen.

ShinRa could have been Rufus's age circa Jenova Project. In fact Rufus is probably around the same age as Sephiroth (LOLOMGRUFUSONEWINGEDANGELWTFBBQ).

And implying that Jenova cells allowed Sephiroth to make an informed personal testament to Gast's genius, personality, and respectability, plus implying that they held conversations, when he was TWO FUCKING YEARS OLD is nothing short of ridiculous. Do you know a two year old? Good, picture them in your head. Now picture them weighing the merits of their favorite scientist. Dora the Explorer does not count.

 

[ForceStealer]

But if Sephiroth were 30, he could be as old as 7 when Gast left, correct? Then he could absolutely recall conversations with Gast, if a little foggily. So lets go with that then I was never quite sure about Genesis being the same age as Sephiroth anyway, considering he idolized him before join the military. Just how fast does one rise the ranks in Shinra anyway?

 

[Auron]

I didn't feel the need to make a new topic out of this, and I really hate to interupt the current debating, but I need something settled... Is Sephiroth killed at Nibelheim? I'm debating a friend on another forum about his view that Sephiroth wasn't killed. and being that, he is hell-bent on saying that he was alive.

So could I get some clarification?

 

[ForceStealer]

I guess that depends on your definition. His body was destroyed and he was forced to reform it, but his mind, his self never disappeared.

 

[Auron]

^LOL, good. That's what I said, and he totally missed my point....

 

[megas_sephiroth]

But if Sephiroth were 30, he could be as old as 7 when Gast left, correct? Then he could absolutely recall conversations with Gast, if a little foggily. So lets go with that then I was never quite sure about Genesis being the same age as Sephiroth anyway, considering he idolized him before join the military. Just how fast does one rise the ranks in Shinra anyway?

Genesis probably had it easier than others since he was part of an experiment...

 

[Auron]

I need a little more help here, the dude is saying that Sephrioth's body wasn't destroyed during his time in the Lifestream up to the northern crater. I've explained it to him in several different ways, and he is still being a stubborn fuck about it. So does anybody know if there is anything presented that says his body was infact destroyed?

I know I shouldn't be caring this much, but I need to make him realize he's wrong.

 

[Dark and Divine]

I need a little more help here, the dude is saying that Sephrioth's body wasn't destroyed during his time in the Lifestream up to the northern crater. I've explained it to him in several different ways, and he is still being a stubborn fuck about it. So does anybody know if there is anything presented that says his body was infact destroyed?

I know I shouldn't be caring this much, but I need to make him realize he's wrong.

Here it is:

Trivia 1
Sephiroth all over the place.
In “FFVII” wherever Cloud and company go there is Sephiroth, but as a matter of fact it’s not Sephiroth’s real body. The headless Jenova stored in the ShinRa Building, is the one who manifests in Sephiroth’s form.

As for Sephiroth’s true self, when he fell inside the Nibel Mako Reactor it dissolved in the Lifestream, but over the course of five years his body reconstructed itself in the Northern Crater where the Lifestream concentrates as he bided his time for his revival. Before long, he was able to call Cloud, the Copies, and Jenova’s body together to unify in the Reunion, and use them to obtain the black materia to summon Meteor. After that, it was the complete body that Cloud and company would fight against.

This quote is from Sephiroth's profile in the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania Guide:

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/523/sephiroth-character-profile-p76-81/

 

[BWAngel]

I didn't feel the need to make a new topic out of this, and I really hate to interrupt the current debating, but I need something settled... Is Sephiroth killed at Nibelheim? I'm debating a friend on another forum about his view that Sephiroth wasn't killed. and being that, he is hell-bent on saying that he was alive.

So could I get some clarification?

Interesting. After reading Case of the Lifestream Black, I came to the conclusion that the Sephiroth pre-Nibelheim, the one who had friends, made jokes, and actually was somewhat happy, died; since it mentions that the memories that made Sephiroth human (ones of friends, childhood, etc...) returned to the lifestream, but his anger and hate toward everything was so strong that it refused to become part of the collective and began to reform his physical appearance. If that makes any sense at all.

 

[Gale]

I was under the impression that Sephiroth only gave up his human memories after he was defeated at the end of FF7, not once he was thrown into the Mako reactor by Cloud.

 

[Auron]

^Maybe I'm not understanding you fully, but how could you even come to that conclusion? Remember at the Mt. Nibel reactor, over the mako bridge? Seph stabs Cloud, Cloud lifts up Seph, and tosses him off the bridge into the mako below?

@BWA: That's the thing, for some reason he's one of those people who for some reason refuse to except that stuff as canon. I don't know what else to say to make him realize it fucking counts.

@ Dark: Yes! That's exactly what I was looking for! Thank you so much.

 

[BWAngel]

I was under the impression that Sephiroth only gave up his human memories after he was defeated at the end of FF7, not once he was thrown into the Mako reactor by Cloud.

I just reread it and I understand what you are saying and agree, but I kind of was under the impression that what happened to him was kind of what erosion does to rocks. I mean he fell into the lifestream and his soul kind of just fell apart, not completely, but enough that the erosion process to take away enough of his soul in his five years of traveling the lifestream that he had to be missing something