Site Direction: Everyone Get in Here

[Flintlock]

But how long would that last? Until they made 7778 posts? Or until they reach Great Old One?

In all seriousness it would be good to have another post count group in between Legendary and Great old one.

I think it should only apply to users with exactly 7777 posts. Afterwards their post count will drop to 1.

 

[Cthulhu]

My colleague left his current assignment after having made exactly 1337 code commits in the version control system - I'm afraid people would be like "this is my 7777th poast, I' done, bai" .

Further, Gabe's poasts are both valid and just and I couldn't have said it better myself. Although I'd probably use better formatting,

But yeah. I'm seeing a few topics in here, might be better to split the discussion up or reach a consensus on them. I'm gonna do a shuffling of the sections later on, probably Saturday, if nobody else picks it up before then. Re: layout, I'm kinda leaning towards Gabe there, I haven't actually read that much feedback about the current looks other than that it could be tweaked or changed (or in one case redesigned / redone), but TBH without actual consent about that, or dissatisfaction, or hard statistics from A/B testing that tell us our targets will be met preferring design X over Y, there's not really a reason for a complete overhaul. We'd need said targets first, for example, .

Re: focus, I'm definitely not going to go there; I'll leave that up to The People, and even then, if we put up a poll I doubt we'd get more than about two dozen votes - and given we're getting about 6000+ unique visitors a month to the front page, that would simply not be representative. I could take a closer look at the statistics though, see which articles are more popular or whether non-FFVII-related posts get enough pageviews and attention to warrant shifting our focus (I'm sure it won't if one were to look at the statistics alone, but then that's also because we mostly attract the FFVII folk)

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

If you guys don't see the problems with our color scheme and typography I don't know what to say to you. No one tells the electrician or the plumber or the architect that they're not really needed and any average person is just as qualified to make the decisions that they make yet that's exactly what I have to deal with in what I do. And anyone who's going to try to tell me that I'm wrong about seeing issues that I have been trained to see, while lacking that same training themselves, IS being incredibly insulting to me and any other designer whether you want to admit that or not. Frankly I think if anyone here were more qualified than I am then something would have been done about the design already.

But no, I am not going to do spec work for you, volunteer or not, because if I can't even be paid for my time in overwhelming gratitude and appreciation then I don't see the point in spending even a second on you.

tl;dr, an architect looking at a house and saying, "This needs work," and 7777 non-architects saying, "Nah, it's fine, you don't know shit."

 

[Ⓐaron]

I went ahead and rearranged the sections as discussed. The RP forum is now an archive; General Gaming, Entertainment, and Politics/Debate are now on the main page. I didn't open access to the former two sections to public viewing yet because I'm not sure that's been discussed enough yet.

 

[Octo]

Get a grip.

Nice how you ignored my and tres suggestions about submitting an example and/or explaining your ideas other than saying 'I'm qualified and you're not'

I hope you don't go to job interviews with that attitude. Christ.

And its not the same as a plumber or an electrician at all. It more like an interior designer going into someones home unbidden and telling them their decor is all wrong, and is frankly rude.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

We've also got several people in here who have (or are) studied design.

 

[Flintlock]

If you guys don't see the problems with our color scheme and typography I don't know what to say to you. No one tells the electrician or the plumber or the architect that they're not really needed and any average person is just as qualified to make the decisions that they make yet that's exactly what I have to deal with in what I do. And anyone who's going to try to tell me that I'm wrong about seeing issues that I have been trained to see, while lacking that same training themselves, IS being incredibly insulting to me and any other designer whether you want to admit that or not. Frankly I think if anyone here were more qualified than I am then something would have been done about the design already.

But no, I am not going to do spec work for you, volunteer or not, because if I can't even be paid for my time in overwhelming gratitude and appreciation then I don't see the point in spending even a second on you.

tl;dr, an architect looking at a house and saying, "This needs work," and 7777 non-architects saying, "Nah, it's fine, you don't know shit."

This is quite similar to what Octo suggested, but: if you could come up with a list of specific problems that your trained eye can see with our design, we could - together - decide which ones are worth tackling. Even if you didn't do the work yourself, we would appreciate your input.

That's basically what this whole thread is: people putting forward ideas for the betterment of TLS, not for personal recognition. Some of the ideas will be adopted, many won't. It's the discussion that is valuable to us as much as anything. If you are expecting carte blanche, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed.

 

[Lex]

If you guys don't see the problems with our color scheme and typography I don't know what to say to you. No one tells the electrician or the plumber or the architect that they're not really needed and any average person is just as qualified to make the decisions that they make yet that's exactly what I have to deal with in what I do. And anyone who's going to try to tell me that I'm wrong about seeing issues that I have been trained to see, while lacking that same training themselves, IS being incredibly insulting to me and any other designer whether you want to admit that or not. Frankly I think if anyone here were more qualified than I am then something would have been done about the design already.

But no, I am not going to do spec work for you, volunteer or not, because if I can't even be paid for my time in overwhelming gratitude and appreciation then I don't see the point in spending even a second on you.

tl;dr, an architect looking at a house and saying, "This needs work," and 7777 non-architects saying, "Nah, it's fine, you don't know shit."

Hi Ravynne.

As stated previously, any design discussion should take place in a seperate thread. The reasons behind why it hasn't changed/ why some people might like it/ why people don't care if it's ugly to a graphic designer have also been stated previously.

This is a friendly warning. Further ignoring my prior gentle nudging to have discussion about the sites design outside of this thread will result in a thread ban.

 

[Super Mario]

Hey it's fine I just felt she needs to be bitchslapped into reality and stop that condescending shit. My apologies. Don't fight pls.

 

[Geostigma]

@designskewl

 

[Lex]

The staff discussion that took place has been split out because it was off topic, just incase anyone wondered where that went.

Anyway, I'm going to PM current staff tomorrow so expect more posts from them so we can reach a consensus about this stuff. More threads, polls etc. regarding what's been discussed will follow, so anyone who has yet to share an opinion about anything that's been discussed should do so

 

[Tetsujin]

Just wanted to reminderpost this since by default standards we're now on a new page

EDIT: I'm going to have to start PM'ing people aren't I ;-;

So uh, staff review.

Dunno, I'm probably gonna get booted.

 

[Mage]

There's been some great suggestions in here, I personally feel Octo, Claymore and Gabe deserve high-fives for their posts.

Can I suggest a retro section? I'm kinda expecting it to be shot down in flames but I first picked up FFVII when I realised it was made by the guys who did Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger. It could be a subsection of the gaming section and obviously caters to pre-VII games (mainly Square OFC), but there's some good old RPGs you could draw comparisons with for future article plunder (someone mentioned battle systems an' shit IIRC).
We could launch a section like that with an appropriate theme too - my last avatar at FFOF was Undine from SoM. <3

 

[Strangelove]

Dunno, I'm probably gonna get booted.

you're gonna get das boot

[/worthy contribution]

 

[Ami]

Can I suggest a retro section? I'm kinda expecting it to be shot down in flames but I first picked up FFVII when I realised it was made by the guys who did Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger. It could be a subsection of the gaming section and obviously caters to pre-VII games (mainly Square OFC), but there's some good old RPGs you could draw comparisons with for future article plunder (someone mentioned battle systems an' shit IIRC).
We could launch a section like that with an appropriate theme too - my last avatar at FFOF was Undine from SoM. <3

I would love to see a retro section up here.

 

[Lex]

So uh, staff review.

Dunno, I'm probably gonna get booted.

Well if such a thing becomes implemented (and I do think it's a good idea) it'd be more... if we started it in January for example, you'd have X amount of time to make X amount of contributions to the front page, and if you didn't do it, we'd talk about whether or not you want to remain on staff.

It's more about keeping the staff active and "clean" of people who don't post at all, rather than punishment for not making posts if you get me.

The thing is, we have a shitload of staff right now and most of them rarely post, and it's kind of pointless. So it's about fixing that and restructuring.

 

[Geostigma]

and given we're getting about 6000+ unique visitors a month to the front page, that would simply not be representative.

Didn't know we were pulling that many in on the front page.
Honestly not sure why I hadn't thought of this earlier for my list of questions that should precede the "focus" thing : Are we happy with 6000 hits per month?

To be honest for a site that is very much stand a lone (no YT, no huge parent network etc.) that is running on 2 forms of antiquated social platforms (wordpress/Forums) centered on 20 year old subject matter... this honestly is really good in 2014.

I know you guys were doing some cool things on the front page but that is pleasantly surprising to find out.

could take a closer look at the statistics though, see which articles are more popular

That would be really cool. Would also be really neat to see how those numbers turn out. Back when I used to YT one of my favorite things was to actually stare at the stats page and SB page to see where the impressions were coming from. They are really informative (assuming the host breaks it down properly) and could really help you drive content further.

 

[Flintlock]

Can I suggest a retro section? I'm kinda expecting it to be shot down in flames but I first picked up FFVII when I realised it was made by the guys who did Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger. It could be a subsection of the gaming section and obviously caters to pre-VII games (mainly Square OFC), but there's some good old RPGs you could draw comparisons with for future article plunder (someone mentioned battle systems an' shit IIRC).
We could launch a section like that with an appropriate theme too - my last avatar at FFOF was Undine from SoM. <3

So, just to be clear, it would be a section for non-FF games that were published before the PS1 came out? Seeing as we already have a section for pre-PS1 games in the FF series.

 

[Tetsujin]

Didn't know we were pulling that many in on the front page.

Dude, we were pulling enough that we could have gotten into E3 this year.

 

[Sprites]

Something to consider : There is a shademp for every FF game out there and if we primarily only cover FF7 finding him wont be easy

My personal opinion is that FF7 should be the forefront but we should definitely acknowledge other SE work much much more. More content > More members > More content. Thats the way it works.

FF7 is niche. And we can still primarily cater to its niche crowd without keeping TLS as a whole niche

Completely and 100% agree with this.

Definitely keep GD hidden. As an example I've shed some light on my past in there which honestly I cba to find and delete all of (though I have done a decent job of clearing some of it :monster). Having it on the open web would suck. There are many ex-members here who aren't able to go through there post history to delete stuff like that...

Gaming/Entertainment could be alright being public though. They should also be on the main index. Not really much else to say about it lol.

RP - If it doesnt start up again. Archive it imo. It's been just there for a very long time now even if starts up being active again due to fear of closure I bet my bottom dollar it will die out again.

In that same vein ; as much as it hurts me; Archive l33tgfx as well. Tennyo and I are the only posters left who do that sort of thing and I only do it when I feel like dorking around with that style of graphic work.

i already went over redesign in the last post. TL;DR extremely unnecessary.
Could it use some sprucing up? Yeah. All sites could tbh, doesn't mean it needs it and honestly there are more pressing matters at hand. The design is fine.

I agree about GD being kept private there's a lot of us who feel comfortable venting to each other about stuff but not to the general public, the only other thread I would say to reconsider being made public is the news, politics, religion and Debate thread only because some of the topics can be delicate and opinions can get heated but that's just me, I don't normally post in there, so I can't comment too much on it.

Gaming and entertainment I think are safe enough to be visible to the public

Site Design: Just one thing if we do decide to update can we keep all those coloured skins, I like mine purple

Can I suggest a retro section? I'm kinda expecting it to be shot down in flames but I first picked up FFVII when I realised it was made by the guys who did Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger. It could be a subsection of the gaming section and obviously caters to pre-VII games (mainly Square OFC), but there's some good old RPGs you could draw comparisons with for future article plunder (someone mentioned battle systems an' shit IIRC).
We could launch a section like that with an appropriate theme too - my last avatar at FFOF was Undine from SoM. <3

Really like this idea


@Flint: I think Mage means like an RPG retro section but ones that FFVII drew inspiration from, ones that were made with a lot of the same team? (Correct me if I'm wrong there Mage) Didn't ACC have an easter egg that had other Square games that were made by the same team that made FFVII?

 

[Kai Schulen]

If I can just throw in my 2 gil here...

For generating more content, how about doing collaborations with other FF (or non FF) sites on non FFVII things?
For instance, translations of Ultimanias and the like, like what we did with FFVIII and FFIX -- I'm surprised that outside of TLS, not many other fansites have made mention of VIII and IX's Ultimania translations?? Or something.

Assuming that it's not a huge pain in the ass for our translators and stuff. Or that we have a unspoken policy on not having TLS translated stuff being featured on other sites...

(Also, not content related, but I'm really surprised at how few active sites we're affiliated with. I thought we'd be affiliated with FF sites with recent games or KH even, but then again...sites like FFXIII.net and KHinsider have like requirements like "your site must have 4000 daily hits" or something.)

As for featuring fanmade content, like fanart...I dunno if this was bought up but in addition to quality, I would have to emphasize heavily on getting the artist's permission to feature their artwork and linking back to the source (or their gallery) -- I know that a lot of foreign fanartists are really touchy about having their artwork reposted without their permission (which I have been guilty of in the past, I'm sorry. OTL) so...yeah. Even if the fanart in question is this one huge badass mural of FFVII painted on the ceiling of a church ala the Sistine Chapel that makes any and all who see it break down in tears from its sheer beauty and magnificence, if the original artist says "no, I don't want my artwork to be posted on your site", we respect their wishes, yeah?

 

[Flintlock]

I'm not sure affiliations are as valuable as they once were. At least, not if having an affiliate means little more than sticking a link to their website in tiny text at the bottom of our pages. If it was a proper affiliation, one that highlighted each others' content and perhaps even led to some coordinated content, that would be a different story. In order for that to work, we'd need contacts on other websites. I know I don't have any useful ones, but maybe some others do?

 

[Octo]

As for featuring fanmade content, like fanart...I dunno if this was bought up but in addition to quality, I would have to emphasize heavily on getting the artist's permission to feature their artwork and linking back to the source (or their gallery) -- I know that a lot of foreign fanartists are really touchy about having their artwork reposted without their permission (which I have been guilty of in the past, I'm sorry. OTL) so...yeah. Even if the fanart in question is this one huge badass mural of FFVII painted on the ceiling of a church ala the Sistine Chapel that makes any and all who see it break down in tears from its sheer beauty and magnificence, if the original artist says "no, I don't want my artwork to be posted on your site", we respect their wishes, yeah?

I think the permission thing was mentioned already, and off course we'll respect their wishes, but I think we should point out that its going to get seen by 6000+ people, and we'd give a link to their own site too, might be quite persuasive.


I agree with Mage about the retro section too, I think we should keep the FF Section as is, and then have another section for retro games in general (personally I wouldn't bother getting loads of subsections for each genre/platform)

And there are probably loads of other sections that could be merged and whatnot, - though I wouldn't know because I just use the latest posts list and I agree with making General Gaming more prominent (With retro gaming as a subsection?)

EDIT: And what Gabe said. WE MUST FIND THE OTHER 14 MYSTICAL SHADEMP SAGES

 

[Cabaret]

Y'know the subject of merchandise was brought up? And you know how merchandise is really kinda blegh on standard cheap t-shirts and stuff that's mass produced? And you know how Lex has a friend who does really cool stuff with converse trainers (and no doubt many other things)? And you know how Mage makes jewelry?

Could we not get something unofficial and unique going here? I know there is the issue of trade mark, but we could either ask Square Enix to ok it for a percentage. Or make sure that the merch is altered enough so it doesn't come under their trademark.

If we have 6,000 coming here we may as well see if they want to spend some monez.

 

[Kai Schulen]

A TLS Etsy shop, perhaps?