So is Sephiroth the strongest dude in FF7 or what

[Max Payne]

Enough to kill a person, sure, but most wouldn't kill them instantly, which is exactly what I'm talking about. Cloud especially wouldn't die from those wounds instantly, and it's not like Seph doesn't know that.

It doesn't matter that they didn't kill him instantly, it's still enough to kill him in moments and immobilize a person, which they did. Cloud was barely able to stand, the ONLY reason he won was the strength of his will and spirit.

If it wasn't for whatever healed him after the fight, He'd have died from blood loss pretty much immediately.

For that matter, if Seph was going for a kill shot with each of those attacks, you think he wouldn't finally go "What the flying fuck?!" and just take the dude's head off -- instead of floating in the air above him for like 20 seconds while taunting him?

I thought it was obvious that he was incapacitating him, rendering him unable to fight back while he goes in for the kill.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It doesn't matter that they didn't kill him instantly, it's still enough to kill him in moments and immobilize a person, which they did. Cloud was barely able to stand, the ONLY reason he won was the strength of his will and spirit.

You're missing my point. "Enough to kill him in moments" isn't enough to indicate that Sephiroth wasn't being an idiot -- i.e. taking the battle as seriously as Cloud.

While I don't disagree with you that Cloud's spirit/will is what ultimately allowed him to get back up, underestimating the strength of Cloud's will is a pretty retarded thing to do when it's that very thing which has already killed you twice -- especially when one of those battles was a literal spiritual battle (after the Safer Sephiroth fight).

If it wasn't for whatever healed him after the fight, He'd have died from blood loss pretty much immediately.

No doubt. I'm not disagreeing that Seph delivered what should have been mortal wounds -- just disagreeing that he was going for the win as desperately as Cloud.

I thought it was obvious that he was incapacitating him, rendering him unable to fight back while he goes in for the kill.

Again, though, why incapacitate when you can decapitate? Or even bisect?

And even if that were his intention, disregarding his verbal behavior and the fact that he could have been swinging his sword instead, that wouldn't explain away the fact that -- once apparently incapacitated -- Cloud should have been an easy target for finishing. Instead, we get Seph floating there in the air, flapping his gums more than his wing.

Dude's arrogance cost him again is all, man.

 

[Max Payne]

You're missing my point. "Enough to kill him in moments" isn't enough to indicate that Sephiroth wasn't being an idiot -- i.e. taking the battle as seriously as Cloud.

While I don't disagree with you that Cloud's spirit/will is what ultimately allowed him to get back up, underestimating the strength of Cloud's will is a pretty retarded thing to do when it's that very thing which has already killed you twice -- especially when one of those battles was a literal spiritual battle (after the Safer Sephiroth fight).



No doubt. I'm not disagreeing that Seph delivered would should have been mortal wounds -- just that he was going for the win as desperately as Cloud.



Again, though, why incapacitate when you can decapitate? Or even bisect?

And even if that were his intention, disregarding his verbal behavior and the fact that he could have been swinging his sword instead, that wouldn't explain away the fact that -- once apparently incapacitated -- Cloud should have been an easy target for finishing. Instead, we get Seph floating there in the air, flapping his gums more than his wing.

Dude's arrogance cost him again is all, man.

I'm not saying Sephiroth wasn't being an idiot, because he's a fucking moron. What you said implies he wasn't trying to kill him-that he was just playing with him until he struck the final blow. He was killing him, he was just doing it slowly. If he had any sense, he would have just flew off to fuck up the world and let Cloud bleed out while he talked to ghosts.

 

[Max Payne]

Again, though, why incapacitate when you can decapitate? Or even bisect?

Why ask a question you already know the answer to? He wanted to destroy Cloud completely and utterly. Not just kill him. Demonstrate his superiority and all that.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Why ask a question you already know the answer to? He wanted to destroy Cloud completely and utterly. Not just kill him. Demonstrate his superiority and all that.

Sorry, I thought you were taking the same position as X, Mako and Force (that Seph was going for the win with each attack). I was asking why incapacitate instead of outright kill if you were going for victory so desperately.

I'm not saying Sephiroth wasn't being an idiot, because he's a fucking moron. What you said implies he wasn't trying to kill him-that he was just playing with him until he struck the final blow. He was killing him, he was just doing it slowly.

I think we're in agreement then. I agree that Seph was trying to kill him -- just that he was deliberately doing so more slowly than was not fucking moronic.

If he had any sense, he would have just flew off to fuck up the world and let Cloud bleed out while he talked to ghosts.

That made me laugh out loud.

 

[Roger]

Instead, we get Seph floating there in the air, flapping his gums more than his wing.

Sephiroth was done in when he was going coming down on, a what looked like an incapacitated Cloud with all the force he could muster.

 

[Lord Noctis]

I think that Sephiroth lost in part because of his overconfidence. But that certainly wasn't the only factor in his defeat, just like Zack's speech is not the only reason Cloud won. Its a combination of three things really.

Sephiroth's overconfidence, his desire to kill Cloud slowly and make him suffer. This attitude caused him to pass over opporunities to end the fight in favor of drawing out Cloud's death. In addition it is also this overconfidence that caused him to not use the full extent of his magical powers.

Cloud's strength of will and spirit which allowed him to keep fighting well beyond the point where other combatants would have collapsed from exhaustion/pain/damage to joints and tendons,and unleash his ultimate Limit Break.

Zack's encouragement of Cloud, which helped Cloud to find the resolve needed to draw on his inner strength and keep fighting despite the hopelessness of his situation.

Its a combination of these three things that resulted in Sephiroth's downfall.

 

[ForceStealer]

Also, and while I understand Tres is speaking in hyperbole here, I'd like to emphasize that Sephiroth was not hovering the air for 20 minutes. In fact, I submit he hovered there only long enough to say his line and immediately dove for Cloud. Cloud's near-death experience did not have to - and probably didn't - take real time to happen.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Also, and while I understand Tres is speaking in hyperbole here, I'd like to emphasize that Sephiroth was not hovering the air for 20 minutes. In fact, I submit he hovered there only long enough to say his line and immediately dove for Cloud. Cloud's near-death experience did not have to - and probably didn't - take real time to happen.

Actually he hovered around for 5-7 seconds after Cloud hit the roof before he started talking.

 

[ForceStealer]

Dammit Noctis

Fair enough, still, I doubt it was even 15 seconds.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Also, and while I understand Tres is speaking in hyperbole here, I'd like to emphasize that Sephiroth was not hovering the air for 20 minutes.

Actually, I said 20 seconds, my friend, which is exactly how long Sephiroth waited after Cloud hit the roof of the building before he dove in to finish him off:
http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/advent-children-complete-fight/314726

Anywho, Noctis is right on the money with his detailing of the reasons Seph lost.