So where do we stand on the big remake mystery now?

[KindOfBlue]

We're in theory fever and everyone wants to get an edge in. Nomura says that the story won't change in CCR but We're all so up our own asses with speculation that nobody believes him lol.

I’m of the opinion that from this point forward every question, even about the most minor details, should just be answered with “we’re working really hard so please look forward to more information soon”

 

[waw]

I bet it will end up being something like one of those Booster Gold storylines where Ted Kord (the second Blue Beetle) has to return to his original moment in time to die.

This and the Zack-Is-A-Whisper (possibly the last one) are probably the likeliest ideas I've heard that have the least impact on the timeline and lore of the game. This recent interview seems to meant that the OG plotline (and therefore "Fated Destiny") isn't changing much. (Which makes me wonder why we even did all that in Remake if nothing is going to change, but that's separate here). Zack crossing over from a universe, having a big epic adventure, etc? All that seems to threaten the progression of the original game.

But there are elements here that the OG is stated as both being followed with events/progression changing. I would say the events of OG Midgar section were followed with some odd differences thrown in. I feel like we're confirmed that the changes here are going to be very, very small. (Which makes me wonder in part: Why then?)

Big time. I'm on a Discord server where these guys are going nuts saying things like "More LIES from Nomura!" and the like. It's amazing.

I kinda think Nomura is just being straight with us to manage expectations? Like, I don't think he's pulling a fast one. Then again, I was under the impression that Remake was going to be a remake, with just a clever pun on the name or something. It got a lot deeper, didn't it? So while this response is silly, I get it.

If Zack were to live at the end of CCR, then it wouldn't be a prequel to Remake.

I guess that'd make it a prequel to Rebirth, eh? I don't know. All the titles are interconnected. Frankly, I'll be surprised if there isn't a secret ending or something that doesn't change anything, even with what's said here. No different missions, no different Whisper stuff, but honestly they're doing a lot of work to not connect deeper to Remake and Rebirth. So I'll be a little surprised.

I think this whole interview should lead us all to manage expectations. That's about it. I feel there's small things confirmed (We'll see more of Deepground Characters, possibly Genesis, in Remake and the third part). There were thoughts of this being a duology. Before Crisis and Dirge of Cerberus don't seem to be very "important," pretty much the usual line around these parts.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Dirge of Cerberus don't seem to be very "important,"

Whoa there.

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

The irony to me is that all the actual news here is about CCR, but now that people know it won't be modified to link up with the Remake trilogy, they mostly don't give a shit, so instead they're combing the bits about Rebirith, which all use the exact same vague language we've been arguing over since the Remake Ultimania interviews. So to sum it up, we've made absolutely no progress in the last two days. I for one might actually be a bit dumber now.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I wouldn't say it's the same language or even the same statements. And if anything, they've been consistent. Consistency means something.

Apparently unless Nomura and Kitase give a notorized affidavit, people won't be satisfied.

 

[Roundhouse]

After the dev comments, I'm thinking their ideal is the OG narrative but with fresh ideas that can be used -without- contradicting or harming that original narrative. So Yuffie being in Midgar, seeing the Avalanche crew but not engaging with them. The extra mission with Jessie, the whole Leslie and Corneo stuff, etc. In Zack's case, maybe we really will just follow him doing whatever until the North Crater stuff, like we follow Laguna and his own party. They can do all sorts of things with him as long as they don't mess with the arcs and core story of the main party.

 

[Odysseus]

I'm gonna wait till we see more to make any serious judgements beyond teasing Mako with Genesis' inevitable grand return.

 

[LNK]

After the dev comments, I'm thinking their ideal is the OG narrative but with fresh ideas that can be used -without- contradicting or harming that original narrative. So Yuffie being in Midgar, seeing the Avalanche crew but not engaging with them. The extra mission with Jessie, the whole Leslie and Corneo stuff, etc. In Zack's case, maybe we really will just follow him doing whatever until the North Crater stuff, like we follow Laguna and his own party. They can do all sorts of things with him as long as they don't mess with the arcs and core story of the main party.

This is what I've thought from the beginning. I was open to other possibilities though.

 

[waw]

Whoa there.

Don't get me wrong, Mako! I love DoC and BC. They're actually my favorite entries. I straight up love the DoC character designs and plot elements. Unfortunately, the emphasis here is on Sephiroth, Cloud, and Zack. Omega, Hojo, Vinny the Claw, Felicia, and all the others? Definitely secondary or tertiary in any sort of grand scheme of the what they're doing. Part of me is, honestly, really disappointed with this feeling. I personally do hope for a capstone, an ending, to the entire Compilation. Easter eggs like the Project Genesis characters are great! I loved it, but it isn't the same to me.

Apparently unless Nomura and Kitase give a notorized affidavit, people won't be satisfied.

But this is the Dev's fault IMO. They told us we'd be gettin ga remake and then we have massive story changes. We're told nothing will be different but Zack is really important. It's not that I'm going to say they're lying to folks, I don't take it that way at all, but their meaning is just totally unclear yet.

In Zack's case, maybe we really will just follow him doing whatever until the North Crater stuff, like we follow Laguna and his own party. They can do all sorts of things with him as long as they don't mess with the arcs and core story of the main party.

I think Roundhouse has it here. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've said it many times, the only thing the OG needed for me to feel it was perfect was a "Maiden Who Travels the Planet" sort of DLC, similar to the FFII Advance bonus dungeon for the dead characters. Aerith, Zack, Biggs, Wedge, Jessie, and Dyne teaming up in a sort of Jade Passage and throwing down with Sephiroth/Meteor/Jenova in the Lifestream. Cameos by the dead president and others, thank you very much. In a weird way, that dream seems to be coming true ever so slightly.

EDIT Aerith, Zack, Biggs, Wedge, Jessie, Dyne and Seto. Whoops!

 

[Golden Ear]

The irony to me is that all the actual news here is about CCR, but now that people know it won't be modified to link up with the Remake trilogy, they mostly don't give a shit, so instead they're combing the bits about Rebirith, which all use the exact same vague language we've been arguing over since the Remake Ultimania interviews. So to sum it up, we've made absolutely no progress in the last two days. I for one might actually be a bit dumber now.

"Nomura stop being vague! Tell me right now does Aerith live or die!?"

Nomura: "Look forward to it"

"GODAMNIT NOMURA!!"

 

[Eerie]

I guess some of you have already read this interview from JeuxVideo.com, but there are interesting bits.

First they insist there is no change at all in CC Reunion. Same missions, same dialogues, just a better gameplay experience.

Now onto the interesting bits:

Do you recommend Crisis Core to those who only have played Final Fantasy VII Remake and not the original game on PS1? Do you think they can enjoy the story as well as those who finished the original game because these know the ins and outs of Cloud and Zack's relationship?

Yoshinori Kitase, Executive Producer :

I understand perfectly what you mean because the complete story hasn't been revealed and CC broaches some events that have not been shown yet in Remake's main story. But in truth, I think that it adds to the enjoyment, because those who don't know the original story can project themselves in the future and ask themselves questions, have this feeling of expectation, wondering how it's going to be dealt in Remake, what is the true bond between those characters and how the story is going to be affected by the changes in Rebirth which release is planned for winter 2023, etc. I think that all of this is part of the experience and that it doesn't affect too much the gaming enjoyment.​

Furthermore, CC is an autonomous story that tells the relationship of Zack and his fights with Angeal, Genesis and Sephiroth*. The title has its own story, so you don't need to know how it's linked to FFVII to appreciate this part. Furthermore, it is evident that the relation between CC and the story of FFVII, to know what comes into play and how it's going to hange the relation with the Remake series is going to interest people, so I think it's something that players can wait for with impatience and specualte, and they're going to have fun with it.​

​

* yes this part is super weird in French too, I think the translator had a blep lol.

Kitase is truly a sadist is what I take from this; he WANTS fans to speculate etc. And they released CC because they KNOW (the bastards) that it's going to amp up the expectations of Remake. Earlier in the interview they go into detail about when the thought about it (in the middle of the development for Remake) and why they chose that release date (it seemed perfect to fit as a waiting time between part 1 and 2). They WANT people to speculate about Zack's fate, 100%, 1000%. And to them, it's a great way to make sure that fans are *engaged* about the Remake series.

Now, another juicy quote:

To end this, let's mention the other game announced during the livestream about the future of FFVII: FFVII Rebirth. Since we can see him in the trailer, can we expect Zack to play an important role in the second part of the Remake?

Yoshinori Kitase, Executive Producer :

He plays an important role in the story, but we can't give details about this for now. I think that people who played the first part of Remake have seen that Zack and Cloud's relationship is slightly modified and different, and they now want to see how the story unfolds after this. So we have understood that the players wonder what is Zack's involvement, how he's been involved and the change of the story's timeline and if that's going to be a major point in Rebirth.​

The players really want to know all of this, this is why we have put Zack in the trailer as a small teaser, just to give you a little glimpse of what it could be. But of course in terms of concrete details, what has happened and how he's involved, how things have changed, you will have to wait to play the game when it'll be released to know what truly happens!​

Now I truly don't know but I still think something very mystic happened at the end of Remake and we're not done with it; however I still predict that the game will lead us where the OG ended. Even in a timeline change, we know for example that Zack cannot interact with Cloud before at least the Lifestream scene happens, or that kills the big moment of the OG story. So, we'll see.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Even in a timeline change, we know for example that Zack cannot interact with Cloud before at least the Lifestream scene happens, or that kills the big moment of the OG story. So, we'll see.

They could interact, it’s just a matter of what that interaction entails, it would definitely be trippy as hell for Cloud that’s for sure

 

[Roundhouse]

Maybe the whole reason they modified the Cloud and Zack relationship is so they COULD interact...

 

[Ryeleigh]

Tbh, I'm hoping we'd get the lifestream scene sooner so we (and the characters) could spend more time with Real Cloud and not just Soldier Cloud.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'd say the fact that the last third of the story is gonna be it's own ~40 hour game guarantees that regardless.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Even without changing the nature of Cloud’s memory of Zack, just having him alive in itself would make me surprised (and kind of underwhelmed tbh) if they didn’t meet, and I doubt they’d wait as long as after the Lifestream to make that happen. Granted, any interaction Cloud and Zack would have before then would probably be some kind of conflict, and I’m here for it. I think it would be cool to actually see them go head-to-head.

Also, I think Remake did a pretty good job injecting just the right amount of Cloud’s actual personality, not too much that it’s a spoiler but just enough to give him some depth. Stretching Midgar to the length of a full game meant giving the characters a bit more development than their OG counterpoints at that point of the story, and similarly I think we’ll get a pretty decent amount of time with Cloud’s real self.

 

[Roundhouse]

I keep thinking of a Bucky-Steve situation where Cloud goes into Puppet Mode and fights Zack, while Zack really doesn't want to hurt his friend.

I have trouble really predicting what they are going to do though. Seems like they are trying to walk a tightrope of being faithful to the core story and also adding new things, and bringing Zack back has to be handled REALLY thoughtfully and skilfully with this aim in mind. I wonder what they have waiting for us...

 

[KindOfBlue]

I keep thinking of a Bucky-Steve situation where Cloud goes into Puppet Mode and fights Zack, while Zack really doesn't want to hurt his friend.

Pretty much the scenario I had in mind, that or Cloud thinks Zack is an illusion by Sephiroth and lashes out or something

 

[Eerie]

Do you guys remember my "Zack's in an alternate timeline but inside the Lifestream" I had? Well, it's more or less this, and honestly still quite close from what I think it is most likely:

 

[Roundhouse]

People have noticed that Seph isn't wearing the special wing belt in the redone Crisis Core....more proof that the belt is his time traveller device in the remake!

 

[OWA-2]

Are you sure? Because he is wearing the belt in Ever Crisis.

 

[Roundhouse]

EC Seph is also a time traveller.

 

[jeangl123]

Are you sure? Because he is wearing the belt in Ever Crisis.

 

[OWA-2]

EC Seph is also a time traveller.

No. EC is a faithful retelling of the entire Compilation. No time travelling.

Interesting... But like I said, he uses the belt in EC, and also in one of Cloud's visions/flashbacks in Remake(we see a glimpse of Sephiroth standing in front of Jenova's tank, in Nibelheim).

 

[Golden Ear]

Bedtime? Who needs it!



I think there can be lots of variations between the universes. For example, Cloud visiting Jessie's home in Remake. Whispers didn't stop that because it's not paramount to the future of the planet. But big things, like Cloud meeting Aerith, that's gotta be maintained. Their meeting is essential.

The Whispers might be "stretched thin", which might be why they allow variations.

Terrier Stamp is one of those variations. It's inconsequential! However, I think the storytellers included it to hint that Zack's scenes are happening in another universe altogether.



I agree with the page you linked to wholeheartedly, that the two perspectives could not happen in the same time and place. One is happening in the "Beagle universe" in December, the other in the "Terrier universe" in September.

I don't think that idea is radical. Let's use Into the Spider-Verse as an example. In that film, the universe of Spider-Man Noir, which takes place in New York during the Great Depression, is happening concurrently with the modern-day universe of New York that Miles Morales lives in. One universe is in the 1930's and the other in the 2010's, happening side-by-side. You wouldn't call Into the Spider-Verse a time travel story because the universes are independent. Additionally, Spider-Man Noir will not lead to Into the Spider-Verse. They're different continuities.

Given how Zack's scenes are always presented as happening at the same time as the party's, I think the multiverse in FFVII will function similarly to Into the Spider-Verse.



I think my usage of "time travel" was poor. I don't think anyone believes that Zack time traveled forward or something. When I say time travel, I'm referring to the interpretation that the party's past was influenced by their actions (i.e., Zack survived in the party's past because of the defeat of the Whispers). I don't personally think that's the case because it creates additional questions, like why show a new version of Stamp, but I'm also repeating myself at this point, so I'll leave it at that.



What I'm saying is that before the Whisper's defeat, all universes needed to follow the big events. So there were no universes where Cloud didn't meet Aerith and so on. But after Remake? It's all fair game. I believe this is exactly what Sephiroth wants. He wants there to be universes where events are allowed to be so different that his Meteor scheme succeeds.

Why? Because he wants the opportunity to win? True to an extent, but I think there's more. Look at the Edge of Creation scene. Sephiroth has learned that the planet with join "it" someday, leading to the end of himself and Cloud. Whatever "it" is, it sounds a whole lot bigger than the stakes as we know them from the original game. This is why I feel a multiverse is appropriate.

Alright, let's get real. It's been two years since the release of Remake and we're all solidified in our interpretations. I probably won't convince you or anyone else. However, I do hope I've laid it out in such a way that everyone can see how I came to my conclusion.

To put simply: the existence of two Stamps and the placement of Zack's scenes could imply to some people (only me?) that there's a multiverse. It's wild, it's new, but I think it's absolutely plausible.

I think one of the main points of contention that is tripping everyone up is the idea of their being all these multiple versions of Gaia, multiple versions of are characters, multiple lifestreams, multiple everything in a multiverse scenario.

I'm curious on you point of view on this. If we say that this theory is true, do you think they will show evidence of all these different universes at some point or would they just focus on our main one and Zack's? There could be potentially limitless different versions of our stories events happening simultaneously, how do they portray this? What would be the point of portraying it in context to our main story in general?

I'm not suggesting they wouldn't potentially be doing something like this, but I'm just wondering in which way would they do it.

Currently I can imagine something along the lines of the multiple timelines happening concurrently and ultimately culminating at the end of this whole saga. I imagine that what they want is to take the idea of the OG but make it even more epic and increase the scale beyond Gaia into the cosmos.

So the timeline thing will build up over the course of the next 2 games (characters getting hints, learning more about it as the story goes, getting more and more of Zack' stuff) and by the time we reach the point after the final northern crater after we normally would fight and beat Safe Sephiroth and when meteor is approaching is when things start to ramp up and include all of this buildup. I also think that Cosmo Canyon Observatory have a good point in their theory involving Omega Weapon in all of this (although I don't agree with everything he proposes).

The game (Part 3) could potentially go on for even longer than what we normally played in the OG game. Is this something similar to how your interpreting or imagining it?