Staff Audit and Critique: Round 2

[Cookie Monster]

Q:How does it work when stuff is reported and there is a need to gather the troops? Do you guys contact each other via email? We used to do it that way on the forum I was moderating, because that forum barely needed moderation - so when something was up, the admin would email us telling us to come in.

When a user reports a post, a thread is automatically created in the staff forum. It provides us with a link to the reported post and the reason the user provides for making the report. If there is an obvious violation of a rule, the first staff member to see it will usually take care of it. If there's a more complicated issue, we'll all give our opinions and then decide on a solution.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

but it would be ironic if everybody agrees that nobody gets anything done, but nobody does anything to change it.

I've recommended a Staff shakeup for a long time.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I know this thread has only seen a day of inactivity, but I'm already getting the feeling that it isn't going anywhere.

It's not a big deal from a personal perspective - I don't have any problems with any of the staff and it's not like I'm going to run away from the forum or anything - but it would be ironic if everybody agrees that nobody gets anything done, but nobody does anything to change it.

This was my thought after waiting, in vain, for any other member's comments. If people are content enough with the situation, then fine, but I do find it confusing to complain about the staff in one thread and not take the offer to comment on it in another, specially made for that.

also, what's up with that comment that staff have a "shit list" thread? I remember someone on staff mentioning it (or I'm losing it in my old age) and I find it mildly amusing and annoying. Do you really need that kind of list?

also, also, my comment on dictatorship vs. democracy type of forum: as strange as it is sounds a democracy would just never work on a site. A democracy works off the idea of being able to oust your government if you don't like 'em. But what do you plan to do about those who own the site? You think you can oust them? Instead they just pull the plug, now the site has just gone under. Sound familiar?

So, obviously, that won't work. Instead, I think maybe the memberbase can influence staff choices, but I don't think they should be the one making all the decisions. Because, in the end, if you have a forum full of people who want to be running the place, that's not gonna work out either, will it? So a staff spearheaded systtem works best, with the influence of the memberbase.

also also also, here's the disclaimer of thisisonlymyopinion.

 

[Tifabelle]

As far as my opinions on staff, it hasn't really changed. With the exception of two people - Tenny, kudos for being more vocal in the previous thread, and Ryu, who is much improved and I'm all for giving him his mod powers back (I think it's been long enough).

I didn't really feel the need to post in this thread, since I had already voiced my opinion. But there you go. Anyone else wants to know what I think of them, they can read my previous post about it here: http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=392513&postcount=46

Now, I said it in the other thread, but I was really upset that mods forgot about all the previous discussion. I really had felt like we had come out of the other side of a shitstorm for the better, but it seems not much has changed at all. And it was really disappointing that none of it was implemented.

Also, for god's sake you guys, work on your communication

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Is it really that bad here?

 

[Tennyo]

And your opinion is very much appreciated, Dawn.

I know I was waiting a bit to give more people a chance to say things, but if the general consensus is that discussions have come to an end, I'll say a small piece.

Of course, I have to admit that I'm not quite sure what to say. I read everything in this thread, just as I read everything in the last thread, and I do take it all to heart and try my best to improve.

If anyone else out there is reading this and feels that they have more to say but haven't said it yet, please do! I want to know what you think.

EDIT: Oops I was writing this as Kripey and Mog posted.

 

[Tifabelle]

Is it really that bad here?

is this to me?

I never said I thought it was bad here. If you read the post from last time, the only person I had complained about was aaron. The rest I thought I said I liked, or offered (what I thought was) constructive criticism. If it didn't come off that way, I apologize.

I actually like most (almost all) of the mods. That doesn't mean I won't express concern from time to time. I think sometimes things go awry because either there's bad communication amongst mods or sometimes they just don't care/cba. I said I was disappointed in how things were handled and the fact that seemingly all the mods forgot everything that happened a few months ago, not that I hated it here.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I've been holding off on making comments here because I had a project to work on and if this goes into a thing, I want to be able to devote some time to it, so

Dawn: Could you go into more detail on me seeming like I think I'm better than everyone? Is it all the time, like even in the IRC, or just certain posts?

Also, to other people, POAST!

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Thanks, Tens. ^__^

The communication levels aren't any worse than what I've seen at most sites but that's no reason not to improve. Most sites have atrocious communication and an improvement wouldn't hurt anyone. Maybe a mod could note their activity of an issue in a thread (probably the one that appears in the staff forum) to the other mods so they aren't going into a thread blind? I dunno, possibly you're already doing this, just a thought.

Ryu, I really don't have an example of this, and I apologize for not having one. I could go find one, but generally when I read your posts they come off as sarcastic, and most sarcastic posts people make is because they feel they know better. That said, if you really want I can go find some, but I honestly feel that there's no reason not to return your Super-Moddy powas to you, so that says something, doesn't it? I should have made this known in my original post, my bad.

A couple of other comments I wanted to make: I probably shouldn't complain about the forum owners' activity, since they do an important task: keep the place funded. And really, that's a lot more important than people give it credit for.

To add, I wanted people to understand this about Aaron: again, I'm not commenting because we're friends or anything. I don't always agree with him; disagreed with him plenty of times. But the thing is that I admire his courage to stand up for what he believes in while so many people (including mods) just coast under the radar and wait til its clear. Aaron has balls, you gotta give him that.

Lastly, I wanted to amend a bit of what I said 'bout Road/Don Draper. He's a bit more active than I gave him credit for, and does make an noticable effort for site improvement (like this thread and others he's made).

Wow, that's a lot from me, hmmm? Hey, I've always been a talkative one when I feel so inclined! xD

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Agreed that Aaron has the balls to stand up and fight when he feels the need for it. But, just putting it out there that balls are like anything else, they can be misused even with the best intentions. Aaron still seems to get on the defensive and stand up to fight when he really shouldn't need to. I think that's where some of the complaints come in.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Sorry for being slow again.

If there's anything that you guys need, or think that I could do contributively, I'll try to improve in the time that I've got. I know it sucks that I'm not really omnipresent to get things fixed / solved / etc. If there's something that you all'd like me to focus on or keep in mind, I'll do whatever I can to do it myself, or get someone appropriate in place who can do it.



X

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I might be speaking too much for him, and for that I apologize, but thing is that I admire a person who can have a differing opinion than that which is currently popular, and defend it well. It is just so much easier to just stay outside of the storm and wait until everything has calmed down before expressing an opinion. Some of us can't just hide for cover when there's a crisis. I know this because I did this a lot in my day, and as much as it didn't exactly always make me popular, at least people knew I could, and would, get involved.

Life (and modding) is so much easier when you just let others do all the hard work but that's not very dedicated, is it? You'll probably like all the staff that don't say a word better, because then it seems like they don't disagree. But maybe they do and they don't have the guts to tell you. Now, really, who is better in all that? The coward who won't talk, or the guy's (or girl's) whose thoughts don't mesh with yours but are expressed openly and honestly?

Though agr'd, that he does get over-enthused at times. He shouldn't take on the responsbility of giving the staff's view on a situaton all the time. Maybe others can stand up and take a few punches next time? (Not to say some of the staff don't get involved; some do, some really really don't).

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I admire that ability as well, I'm sure lots of folks here do. I just think it benefits a Mod, or anyone really, to temper their ability to stand in defiance of the popular opinion with the knowledge of when not to. Also, defending a differing stance well is a bit more than I'd say about Aaron the last two times a dissatisfaction with the Mods has come up, at least at first (I will admit he gets better once things calm down a bit, but when its fresh and ongoing he is rather less so).

Also, @ The Man himself: You know I think you're a pretty awesome guy, so don't take any of this overly personally dude.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I agree that holding your opinion back a bit is something necessary, especially when pending new information or further assistance from the rest of the mod pack, but I disagree that anything he said was beyond civil disagreement. Heated, yes, and I still don't agree with his view on the subject, but he can debate it without turning into omfgursostoopidz!1!!11 that I've seen even mods (though not here) do.

lol, is this the part where I'm now arguing this past sensiblity? I bow out now, since really, I've more than said my piece and invite others to do so.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

No I actually agree once again, he never did go beyond a mildly heated level of civil disagreement in the most recent case (and in the previous one very few of the mods involved came out smelling of roses during the heat of it). No, in this case my point is best made with an example: The statement he made of a desire to take action that would have greatly aggrieved everyone invested in the Disappointed in Mods thread, specifically closing and slumming it. This was a comment made when people had already been expressing their displeasure for the thread being moved to the Donator's section, so (especially since he had decided NOT to do that) it seems a poor choice to speak out about it.

 

[Joker]

I'm extremely disappointed in two things.

First, as has been mentioned, it feels like nothing's changed. Like...at all. All the discussion and debate and arguments and agreement and everything that happened in December, and it honest to God feels like nothing has come of it. This has been expressed elsewhere, so I have nothing to elaborate on.

Secondly, though...twice now - and yes, I realize it's only me asking for it - I've said that I would really like to hear what the mods think of all this. Feedback, if you will. And not one person has had anything to say. "I read everything and try to do better" isn't really helpful (sorry to put you on the spot here, Tennyo), because it's not constructive. It's like a bunch of kids in trouble in grade school that are just kind of meekly looking at the floor while they think of how much trouble they're going to be in when they get home and blankly saying 'yes sir/ma'am' (whichever gender your principal was, natch).

There's no dialogue between staff and members AT ALL. The whole point of all this is to try and make things better and more enjoyable for everyone. Nobody likes to feel like they're being picked on, or like their lives are being dissected for every little negative thing. RESPOND. Don't just sit there taking things lying down. Give us something to work with. If members have a specific thing that they're not especially happy with, don't NOT reply to that and then later say that you've read it and taken it to heart. Talk to us;, especially here; ask questions to try and see what people are looking for or suggesting, talk to them about the way everything plays out in your mind and your outlook on things, whatever. If we're not talking and trying to understand each other, and then taking that and learning from it so we can actually move forward, not a goddamn thing changes and we hash this out again three months from now when something inevitably occurs.

It's disappointing to encourage that dialogue, and know that the other party is definitely thinking SOMETHING, but them not actually sharing that, and, instead (and this is my decidedly pessimistic and cynical lifeview talking now!), sitting in their clubhouse, discussing it amongst themselves, and stewing on it.

I guess the best example I can think of here is Mog. The first six months that I was here, things with him were intolerable. Things blew up, but then he just sat and talked to us about things and we sorted it out as adults, just having a conversation, back and forth, give and take. And that's not what's been happening here.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Well, my two cents; I haven't been here as much, on and off. So I'm a little confused on what's going on as far as what has and hasn't changed since December. As far as I'm aware, besides for this most recent event, nothing really has occurred to demonstrate a leap forwards or back in terms of our jobs. As far as I know, things seem to have been actually kinda boring or something, which is why I've been trying to spice things up. So as far as a lack of improvement, can you guys name specific examples of what hasn't changed?

I mean, specific examples.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Actually, you know what? Time to pull out the big guns. And guys, this isn't an accusation, but it's more like a challenge. Get ready.


What are you guys doing to improve the atmosphere here? And I don't mean just making threads/posts asking us what the Staff is doing. What are you guys doing? Yeah, the Staff run the site, but the members are the site. Have the members tried to enact on any of the suggestions they've made? Have you guys suggested any site events or offered their abilities towards site content or improvement? Have you guys offered to put in some work to make TLS a better place? Even input is great if you have nothing else to offer.

Here's some stuff to show what I mean. Most of this stuff is site stuff, but this is at the core of what TLS is, and I firmly believe that most of these problems would erase if we had real content and activity again.

http://thelifestream.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10561
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10364
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9874

If the answer is "No, because we're not Staff", the answers to that is, first of all, you don't have to be Staff to do those things, and second, if you think you know better, then ask to be Staff. If I'm not satisfied with the way things are run by the boss, then I either put in the hard grit to change it, or I become the boss.

Don't just have roundhouse discussions and tap your foot waiting on someone else to change. Be the change. Granted, this post doesn't run counter to the spirit of this topic (because there's nothing wrong with this kind of dialogue), but I want to remind the Members that you have more power than just waiting around for us.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Well, I don't really see how you feel like nothing has changed since December. Can you folks be a bit more specific? Tbh, I think this recent debacle occurred because it started last year, before our discussion around the turn of the year. Other than keeping members updated about reports, all of this miscommunication occurred last year. We were addressing this issue with Celes, she was going to be contacted about her report, where she would have had the opportunity to communicate with us further on the issue. And, because of issues stemming from last year, this blew up before we even got to that point.

I also need to stress the fact that you guys need to communicate with us. I believe a total of four reports were made during the last 6 months about this. Three of them were made around the same time last October. Granted we weren't communicating all that well back then, and we should have realized this was a bigger problem than it seemed to be. That's totally on us, and I apologize for that. But, if you have an ongoing issue, you need to let us know. I don't mean to place any blame on Celes or anyone for that matter. But, I noticed a lot was said during this harassment mishap, and alot of it was deleted instead of being reported. Report EVERYTHING. When you do, everyone on staff will see it, and we'll all have a better understanding of what's going on.

Now onto staff, when you guys receive complaints via PM, IM, or whatever, post them in the goddamn Staff Section. Every time I receive a complaint or an inquiry about a complicated issue via PM, I post it in the staff section. I think for some people, that may sound like a violation of privacy. But if I receive anything regarding a forum issue, I believe every staff member has the right to know what's going on. I hold them on same pedestal that some of you hold me. So, I hope the rest staff will agree to that and proceed to share any grievances they hear or receive from other members. Doing so will help us serve the community more efficiently.

 

[Vendel]

Speaking of communication from the staff. I was quite surprised when I found that I was banned from a section of the forums. No warnings or explanations. Not even a notice that it had been done. I just logged in and a section of the forum was gone for me.

 

[Tetsujin]

Weird, because I remember reading the posts in which you've been warned.

 

[Vendel]

Weird, because I remember reading the posts in which you've been warned.

The last post I have in the section I was banned from is 4 weeks ago. I got banned from it 2 weeks ago. I received no warning for that post. Verbal or otherwise.

The last infraction I got was unrelated. As in an entirely different section of the forum.

 

[Flintlock]

What are you guys doing to improve the atmosphere here? And I don't mean just making threads/posts asking us what the Staff is doing. What are you guys doing? Yeah, the Staff run the site, but the members are the site. Have the members tried to enact on any of the suggestions they've made? Have you guys suggested any site events or offered their abilities towards site content or improvement? Have you guys offered to put in some work to make TLS a better place? Even input is great if you have nothing else to offer.

You asked for it. Since joining in January, I have:

• Organised the character battle competition thing (which will enter its next phase tomorrow) - ideally we will get some front page articles out of that, and if nobody else steps up to write them then I definitely will.
• Tried to get someone to race me in FFVII (or another FF game), which could be a good community event, were it to go ahead as I described - which requires someone else to take up the challenge.
• Indicated a willingness to take part in the next FFVII playalong.
• Indicated a willingness to take part in future Let's Play commentaries.
• Created Sephibot for the IRC channel and (in cooperation with other people) arranged regular last-Friday-of-the-month parties.
• Set up the IRC channel statistics, though Ryu has since taken that over.
• Set up the TLS Chat interface, again with a little help from my friends.
• Contributed to every site-related discussion in which I think I can offer some useful input, like the graphics thread. I'm posting in this thread too, even though I don't really know a lot of what goes on here

I don't consider that to be a huge amount, but I'm quite happy with it as a haul for my first three months here considering I've been busy revising for very important exams, with varying degrees of intensity, for that whole time. I would like to do more when I have the time.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm posting a response here because I know Omega really wants to see an acknowledgement from staff members that the message from the community is received. It is.

Communication between us and the memberbase on reported posts has probably been our key weakness. I think staff generally communicates well with one another, but it is plenty apparent that we could do a better job following up on certain issues with those in the community (this isn't news to anyone).

As I mentioned in the "Disappointed" thread, I wasn't around when the seeds of this most recent issue took root, and whoever was probably needed to look into it further. But I failed when the most recent report came in. I didn't know what the details of the problem were, and I'll confess that I didn't imagine it was nearly as serious as it was.

I just sort of figured that adults could handle not speaking to one another if they weren't getting along, and that if it was a serious matter, another mod with more familiarity with the issue would let the rest of us know. Nobody really had a lot to say other than that there had been a falling out between Tiff and this other girl some time ago. It just looked to me -- to all of us, I think -- like one party wanted to rebuild a friendship, the other didn't, and it would end there with neither talking to the other again.

I will say that Road had volunteered to PM Tiff and make sure all was well, so it wasn't a complete falling down on our duties, but -- as we hadn't recognized how serious the issue was -- we didn't set about doing anything in a timely enough manner. Most of us had commented on the situation, but we quite simply didn't realize what we were dealing with.

As far as any of us knew, this was the only incident since the initial falling out. It looks like nothing was reported relating to all this since the first week of October, so there was a good stretch of time between then and this past week.

I'm not saying that it's Tiff's fault for not reporting more, though, as her confidence in getting some assistance was probably not at its highest. Which, again, comes back to staff not following up well enough on the original incident -- which was before Ryugate in December, when staff dissatisfaction came to a boiling point.

I don't know to what extent this reflects a systemic problem with staff's handling of things, but it's safe to say it has highlighted a number of things we could, should and will have to do better. And I believe they will be done better.

A number of good suggestions have been made in the past few days, and Ryu spearheaded their implementation in the staff area.

Much has been said of staff members not always being available or being unaware of the gravity of a current situation because they missed a past incident. With a little work at one of the new ideas for how we will log the following-up with members -- as sell as moderator activity in general -- I think we'll start getting around this flaw.

Have a bit more patience with us, please. We'll get where we need to be.

 

[Dashell]

Well, I don't really see how you feel like nothing has changed since December. Can you folks be a bit more specific? Tbh, I think this recent debacle occurred because it started last year, before our discussion around the turn of the year. Other than keeping members updated about reports, all of this miscommunication occurred last year. We were addressing this issue with Celes, she was going to be contacted about her report, where she would have had the opportunity to communicate with us further on the issue. And, because of issues stemming from last year, this blew up before we even got to that point.

You know what?... no... just no..

this has nothing to do with the activity or how much stuff we're contributing as members. this has to do with STAFF and how much STAFF is working with members. Having a bunch of crazy FFVII activities or getting groups together to play games doesn't mean squat if we don't have a decent staff...

Having said that I did do some translations, but I suppose I could do more... I should probably get back to Dismantled.

I'm always up for translating profiles because those seem easiest for me if anyone ever has any scans. Maybe we could do the 20th AU ones?

But, if you have an ongoing issue, you need to let us know. I don't mean to place any blame on Celes or anyone for that matter. But, I noticed a lot was said during this harassment mishap, and alot of it was deleted instead of being reported. Report EVERYTHING. When you do, everyone on staff will see it, and we'll all have a better understanding of what's going on.

I haven't reported anything since one of the staff members told the member I reported that I reported them... so forgive me if I don't feel safe reporting stuff anymore

How do I know that's not going to happen again?