Staff Audit and Critique: Round 2

[Cat Rage Room]

this has nothing to do with the activity or how much stuff we're contributing as members. this has to do with STAFF and how much STAFF is working with members. Having a bunch of crazy FFVII activities or getting groups together to play games doesn't mean squat if we don't have a decent staff...

The point I'm making is that all of the burden shouldn't be on Staff to help make this place better. Obviously there are exceptions and only stuff that Staff can do, but my point is that a community or atmosphere where everyone is tapping their feet waiting on the man above to fix things isn't a very good one.

A place where STAFF is solely responsible for the wellbeing of the community and STAFF are the only ones who can maintain or fix shit when the STAFF actually comprises less than one percent of the total memberbase is broken regardless of how well STAFF does their jobs. Besides like I said, worst comes to worst, ask to be STAFF yourself so you can be hands on about fixing issues instead of waiting for STAFF to do them.

Do you see what I mean about the members having the most power over where the community/site goes instead of STAFF? Hmm?

 

[Dashell]

The point I'm making is that all of the burden shouldn't be on Staff to help make this place better. Obviously there are exceptions and only stuff that Staff can do, but my point is that a community or atmosphere where everyone is tapping their feet waiting on the man above to fix things isn't a very good one.

I realize that but this topic is about the staff, the topic isn't "What are you doing to fix the site?"

It just seems like what you posted should be in a separate topic or something.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I realize that but this topic is about the staff, the topic isn't "What are you doing to fix the site?"

It just seems like what you posted should be in a separate topic or something.

What I posted is totally relevant because it broadens the scope. I dislike the concept of shifting my enjoyment and wellbeing off to some higher authority. Either I fix it myself or I become the authority. You all can do the same.

This topic is basically posing the challenge to Staff; 'How well are you doing your jobs?' My response to that sentiment is; 'We can certainly do better, but why are you giving us so much power over how well you enjoy this place to begin with? What can you do to enhance your time here?'

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

What I posted is totally relevant because it broadens the scope.

I for one think the scope should remain a bit narrow atm. You broaden it too much, you lose track of what you were aiming at. Certainly what you're discussing is related in a way to the current target, but I think we should take care of this first.

I dislike the concept of shifting my enjoyment and wellbeing off to some higher authority.

Well, makes sense you're a mod then But seriously, my enjoyment and wellbeing are within the sphere of my control and I can do things to help make this place better, for myself and others. The mods are still the ones who have to deal with Da Rulez and people who break them, as well as communicating with those affected by said breaking. Which is the core of the discussion here, not site content and contributions by the member base.

Either I fix it myself or I become the authority. You all can do the same.

"Too many cooks in the kitchen" has already been said of the authority here, do you really want more signing up? And for the issue we're actually talking about, the complaints that were made? We quite literally can't fix that unless we do sign up to be staff. I've actually thought about that once or twice, thinking maybe I could pitch in and help out with the very issues we're discussing. Honestly, I don't want that responsibility. I appreciate those who take it upon themselves to keep TLS running greatly, but I don't want to join them atm, and shouldn't have to for things to work the way people say it will.

This topic is basically posing the challenge to Staff; 'How well are you doing your jobs?' My response to that sentiment is; 'We can certainly do better, but why are you giving us so much power over how well you enjoy this place to begin with? What can you do to enhance your time here?'[/QUOTE]

 

[Dashell]

also I notice this was ignored:

I haven't reported anything since one of the staff members told the member I reported that I reported them... so forgive me if I don't feel safe reporting stuff anymore

that was kind of a big deal to me...
If it happens to me how do I know others won't have the same problem? Why should people feel safe to report posts if that happens? This is actually a PERFECT example of what we're discussing here.... I bring up an issue like that that has to do with staff completely and get told, "Well what are YOU doing to help?"...

I mean what?

EDIT
also Vendel brought up something important. I know people think "Oh it's just Vendel" but he should have at least been told he was banned from a section... again that's kind of important.

 

[Fangu]

Now, I said it in the other thread, but I was really upset that mods forgot about all the previous discussion. I really had felt like we had come out of the other side of a shitstorm for the better, but it seems not much has changed at all. And it was really disappointing that none of it was implemented.

Also, for god's sake you guys, work on your communication

It seems that several members, not just you Kripey, thinks 'nothing has been done'.

I'm pretty sure it's related to this:

also need to stress the fact that you guys need to communicate with us. I believe a total of four reports were made during the last 6 months about this. Three of them were made around the same time last October.

I haven't reported anything since one of the staff members told the member I reported that I reported them... so forgive me if I don't feel safe reporting stuff anymore

How do I know that's not going to happen again?

It seems like the Report button is the tool of choice for, well, reporting stuff, to the mods. However there has been almost no reports during the last months. How do we interpret that? Is there nothing to report? Or can it be related to what Quex is saying?

(On that note, I'm fairly sure that an issue would never be handled anonymously, to be fair, Quex.)

Is it really that bad here?

In all fairness, Mog, this is not very constructive.

Don't just have roundhouse discussions and tap your foot waiting on someone else to change. Be the change. Granted, this post doesn't run counter to the spirit of this topic (because there's nothing wrong with this kind of dialogue), but I want to remind the Members that you have more power than just waiting around for us.

I totally agree. Everyone should contribute if they have the time, and if they have something to contribute with. Other than that, I'd say just posting in the forum is "contributing". It keeps TLS alive.

Here's some stuff to show what I mean. Most of this stuff is site stuff, but this is at the core of what TLS is, and I firmly believe that most of these problems would erase if we had real content and activity again.

http://thelifestream.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10561
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10364
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9874

Regarding the Front Page stuff, hopefully everyone will be able to contribute. If and when we get something neat going on in the test site, we'll ask TLS for feedback on what they like and don't like about the new Front Page.

Regarding the playthrough, I asked several times in the old thread if you guys were starting up again. I confused that playthrough with the LP's, so I felt really left out when I saw Ryu had posted more videos iirc, someone nagged you to make an update, Mog, and you never did. So really that one is on you. Also, you say yourself you're away at times. Stuff could have happened that you didn't notice. Which brings me to my next point:

Re: doing stuff, Flintlock makes a point about the IRC. Both him, Ryu, Yop and I have done various things to get more people in there. The Last Friday of Every Months was an idea we came up with together. Flintlock did the bot and put a lot of work into that, also with the statistics. I tried bullying people into getting there, mostly by tweaking the flash client that Yop and Flint then integrated into the board.

What I'm trying to say is: There is stuff going on that maybe not all of you know about. (Evil, evil plans, I tell you!)

You asked for it. Since joining in January, I have:

• Contributed to every site-related discussion in which I think I can offer some useful input, like the graphics thread. I'm posting in this thread too, even though I don't really know a lot of what goes on here

The jury is still out.

Ok going tech ranty here, however it is on the staff and projects topic:

Can someone please bully Yop into talking to me about how far he wants to go with the test environment thing for the Front page? The last time I talked to him, it was about GIT, Eclipse and user writing access though SSH, but I didn't get him very far.

I'm sorry Yop, but: you have to stop being a control freek (sic), if you want me to help, you have to admit you don't know EVERYTHING (shocker people, though I know some of you are surprised when there's stuff about computerz he doesn't know), or you have to tell me to gtfo because you don't want others to have SSH access and the likes, and the only way editing of PHP of WordPress is through the shitty edit panel in the WP admin.

And that's fine! With more people fucking around on the site, the more likely accidents are to happen. If you don't have the time to fix possible accidents, then say it like it is: Fangu won't get access, and the scope of the project will be "updating to the new WordPress and maybe add some fancy widgets". This is probably all you need anyway, as Shademps thoughts on the Front page is based around WP. But if that's the decision, to keep using the "posts in the middle" design we got going on now, then let's make that decision! And give a proper reason for it. 'Call the shovel a shovel' is a Norwegian saying. Don't sugar coat it. And don't just say 'cba'. Then I can stop coming up with ideas for this project and go shoe shopping instead.

I know I could talk to you directly about this, but since this is about the site, I want to air it here and let others have their say, if they have input.

 

[Dashell]

(On that note, I'm fairly sure that an issue would never be handled anonymously, to be fair, Quex.)

This is BS. You give the person a warning or talk to them about this conduct without saying "so and so reported you so there"... that's all there is to it.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

In all fairness, Mog, this is not very constructive.

It was a legit, earnest question. Some parts of this topic definitely give/gave me a 'end of my rope' vibe. It's been said a few times 'Since the last time this topic has came up (December) nothing has changed.' I'm just confused on exactly what's occurred (besides the stuff with Tiff recently) for a lot of people to feel that way, which is why I asked for specific examples.

As far as I know, the place has been running smoothly for the past few months with nothing of note going on.

 

[Dashell]

It was a legit, earnest question. Some parts of this topic definitely give/gave me a 'end of my rope' vibe.

Well you know what, Mog? I feel the same way...

 

[Cat Rage Room]

But why?

And don't say nothing has changed. If someone says 'nothing has changed' for the millionth time I'm netpunching them in the throat. Be specific. Name specific incidents or occurrences.

 

[Dashell]

But why?

And don't say nothing has changed. If someone says 'nothing has changed' for the millionth time I'm netpunching them in the throat.

Idk maybe cause two reasonable issues were brought up that were ignored. That might have something to do with it...

Be specific. Name specific incidents or occurrences.

lol

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Name specific incidents or occurrences.

 

[Dashell]

read the fucking thread. Both Vendel and I were very specific.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

It was a legit, earnest question.

One that could, ironically, be applied to your very next sentence.

Some parts of this topic definitely give/gave me a 'end of my rope' vibe.

Is it really so bad here, Mog?

It's been said a few times 'Since the last time this topic has came up (December) nothing has changed.' I'm just confused on exactly what's occurred (besides the stuff with Tiff recently) for a lot of people to feel that way, which is why I asked for specific examples.

The stuff with Tiff AND Yoshi recently is exactly what got a lot of us feeling that way. Yes, things ran nice and smooth for a long while and that's great. And when something finally happened that wasn't smooth, people were less than pleased with the reaction. Reasons have been given for the way things played out in this recent situation, some more satisfactory than others. Tres spelled out a very good post about it up above.

All this other stuff about "what have the members done about such and such" is all well and good... but its really its own topic. Placed HERE, in the the "STAFF Audit" thread, feels a lot like deflecting to me dude.

As far as I know, the place has been running smoothly for the past few months with nothing of note going on.[/QUOTE]

 

[Cat Rage Room]

read the fucking thread. Both Vendel and I were very specific.

yes lets be hostile that'll help

Yes, you stated that you reported something, and the mod told the person you reported them. That's vague as shit, that's not specific at all, at least tell us when that occurred, what topic, by who, and how. And I was asking you for your examples, not Vendel. Vendel was pretty clear; you were not.

Is it really so bad here, Mog?

Not as far as I know.

The stuff with Tiff AND Yoshi recently is exactly what got a lot of us feeling that way. Yes, things ran nice and smooth for a long while and that's great. And when something finally happened that wasn't smooth, people were less than pleased with the reaction. Reasons have been given for the way things played out in this recent situation, some more satisfactory than others. Tres spelled out a very good post about it up above.

All this other stuff about "what have the members done about such and such" is all well and good... but its really its own topic. Placed HERE, in the the "STAFF Audit" thread, feels a lot like deflecting to me dude.

The issue with Tiff's situation is a little more broad than just Staff, and it was spread out over a long period of time. It's complex because it involved a LOT of people, factors, and time. Could Staff have handled it better? Fuck yeah. But is it all Staff's fault, considering we were working with bits, pieces, fragmented information (I for one had no clue this was going on for so long), and everyone's hands in the pot? I say no.

This is a big case of spilled milk, but to be honest I don't think it warrants a 'nothing has changed' sentiment and a big ol' audit. Attention? Of course. This? This is just confusing.

 

[Fangu]

Yes. At least some members feel like 'nothing has been done' and that 'communication is bad'.

Now. Can we please debate why they feel nothing has been done, and if there's anything we can do to change the way we communicate?

Like
- A little "what is reporting?" link next to the report-button in each post
- A contact form that creates or updates a thread in the Staff Section. With this form, people can add additional information to their reports (I don't know if there is a "comment field" in the report itself). OR they can use it for random feedback that is just regarding the forum, and not for the entire site.
- A questionnaire about the report button, to find out why it is never used. "Has there been times you've wanted to notify Staff about something, but felt it wasn't 'important' enough to report?"

Sorry if this has been mentioned or brought up before. I'm just trying to move forward as there seems to be some running around in circles going on in here

 

[Dashell]

I have to find the post I reported?.. really?

it was a spam post in the LTD. I reported it, that person then PMed me thanking me for reporting them (sarcasm obviously, I don't remember the sarcasm tag)... I don't see why it matters. As far as I'm concerned the mods have no right to do something like that, at LEAST without telling me.

EDIT
and also I posted that and no one replied until I said "Hey guys I just posted something important" so forgive me for thinking you weren't doing your job when I had to repeat myself several times before you said "be specific"

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Yes, you stated that you reported something, and the mod told the person you reported them. That's vague as shit, that's not specific at all,

I haven't reported anything since one of the staff members told the member I reported that I reported them... so forgive me if I don't feel safe reporting stuff anymore

That seems plenty specific enough to go on with, as far as addressing an issue where a member feels staff handled shit wrong. But what do I know, I'm just a silly member who isn't doing enough to make things better

 

[Dashell]

Yeah if you're looking for me to find the post, I'm not going to dig through the LTD thread. I think it just said "lol wut"? or something.
If you're looking for me to tell you WHO I reported, I consider that confidential and it's not fair to the person who got a warning for it.
If you're looking for me to tell you what mod told on me... I have no clue. I can only guess.

I wasn't more specific and I gave you all the details I had... seriously just... wtf man? Stop with the deflecting.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Whew, I give up. I have to admit, between this mess and me being out to sea this often (I go out again this morning, everyone, FYI), I don't think I'm cut out for this anymore. I'm the only one here and I'm already fucking up on this.

I'm officially retiring, effective immediately.

 

[Dashell]

Okay.. any other staff member want to tell me I wasn't specific enough? Or is that enough to go on? I'm not looking for a fix I'm just giving an example of something that happened that made me uncomfortable

EDIT
To make it more clear, I would have just liked to have been acknowledge with a "Yeah that shouldn't have happened" or something. Being ignored was what pissed me off and also seeing Vendel not really being addressed annoyed me. I understand what happened with me was AGES ago, but it's still something that made me uncomfortable and made me not want to report posts anymore. I wanted to put it out there that if I feel this way reporting posts, how do we know it hasn't happened to other people? It's just something to think about...

sorry if it's not clear enough.

 

[Hisako]

I think once an issue gets serious enough to be reported, then it stops being an individual problem and starts being a problem between those who report it and the person the report is about. In other words, I believe things stop being a solely private matter when the problem is out in public.

That isn't to say that people have a right to privacy where a delicate matter is being involved, but at the same time I think if people want the process to be more open, names are going to have to come out. And besides, if the person being reported is truly in the wrong, why should people hide behind anonymity for doing the right thing and reporting them?

I suggested in the previous thread about opening a new section for disciplinary action, for more severe things where people directly involved can come in and have their say in the matter before actual judgement is passed. I'm not saying it should happen, but my point is I just think a bit more transparency about the decision-making is part of what we might be looking for.

 

[Dashell]

I disagree... I think people should be able to report stuff in confidence. I wouldn't have had a problem with it had the mod said, "Hey you should work this out with X, okay?" or if they had asked me if it was okay, but they shouldn't just tell someone who reported them.

sometimes we don't want to make the reason we reported something public. Like if someone posted a joke about a subject I'm sensitive about but I don't want everyone to know about it. I might report the post because I don't want everyone to know my experience with said issue...

that wasn't the case THIS time obviously, this was just spam... but really people should be able to report stuff in confidence, and this person didn't get told I reported them for the greater good, it was obviously because they were annoyed I was reporting stuff in the LTD thread so much.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Nice edit.

Not as far as I know.

Good to hear.

The issue with Tiff's situation is a little more broad than just Staff, and it was spread out over a long period of time. It's complex because it involved a LOT of people, factors, and time. Could Staff have handled it better? Fuck yeah. But is it all Staff's fault, considering we were working with bits, pieces, fragmented information (I for one had no clue this was going on for so long), and everyone's hands in the pot? I say no.

JFC, we're right back where we started again. Ok, lemme get this out of the way again. Some of you were not present back in October when the initial issues between Yoshi and Tiff started. We've been told that, and many of us have in turn said that we don't blame you for not having the full run of info on a situation you weren't even around for. If you are among the group of Mods who was gone for one reason or another, then the bit of the disappointment in the more recent Tiff/Yoshi flare up relating to the origin of said situation is not about you.

There was disappointment relating to the total lack of action back in October, despite reports being made. There was disappointment in the actions that WERE taken during this flare up because of that prior lack of action. There was disappointment that of the mods present back when this started, none of them remembered what happened well enough to fill in those who were not (though on the whole that bit was more understandable). The was disappointment with the lack of contact from the mods to those who reported Yoshi. We've since been told that last bit is apparently because no one on staff seemed to remember it/never got how serious it actually was in the first place, thus there was apparently no sense of urgency regarding getting back to anyone who reported Yoshi this time around.

You were working with "bits, pieces, and fragmented information" as you so redundantly put it because of communication and memory fail. There were multiple hands in the pot because it seemed very much, and still does now, that nothing was getting done about a very serious issue.

This is a big case of spilled milk, but to be honest I don't think it warrants a 'nothing has changed' sentiment and a big ol' audit. Attention? Of course. This? This is just confusing.

First off, spilled milk? Spilled. Milk?! You were out at sea when shit originally hit the fan with Yoshi and Tiff back in October, so as said above and elsewhere I do not blame you in the slightest for not being aware of the severity of the issue when it cropped back up. But you're bloody well aware of it now, and it is just a tiny bit bigger than spilled fucking milk. Hell, Quex would probably agree that her specific issue (albeit not specific enough for your standards apparently) is less severe than months of stalking, yet a mod out and out telling a reported member who reported them is still just a bit more important than spilled milk.

As for it meriting some attention, but not an audit? I believe we were told the audit was scheduled to take place in the near future anyway, and this issue was just worthy of moving it up, not causing it? Such audits were agreed upon as a regular thing after what Tres (quite hilariously) dubbed "Ryugate" were they not?

Your whole spiel up there reads as deflecting, trying to put what were previously fully admitted failings both justified and not onto the members rather than owning the problems and dealing. I note, no other mod has done so recently.

Edit: Concerning you retiring dude, remember I had this to say about you on the first page of this audit:

Tres, Mog, Daniel: my opinions on all of you are exactly the same as before. That is to say, you're largely awesome people and mods who know how to handle a situation calmly, are entirely capable of ceasing to be nice when called for, and you make damn sure you look before you leap.

I do feel that you were handling the last while rather poorly, NGL on that, but the above still stands in general. You are normally a good guy who can handle what needs handling. If you felt you needed to step down because you're out at sea and thus not available enough that'd be one thing, but I don't think you should take this argument we've been having into account for such decisions.

 

[Dashell]

I think once an issue gets serious enough to be reported, then it stops being an individual problem and starts being a problem between those who report it and the person the report is about. In other words, I believe things stop being a solely private matter when the problem is out in public.

Polite Krogan, after reading your post again I want to say something... I DO agree with this to some extent but I think this should only be for serious issues. Obviously the issue with Tiff and Yoshi needed to be dealt with but at the time, I was reporting any spam I saw in the LTD thread (which was alot ) because actual debate was going on in there.

In a serious situation where two members are constantly arguing, I can see maybe having mods get involved with both members, but when someone just reports a spam post or a something that makes them uncomfortable, I don't think it's necessary to sit down and say "Hey, let's talk about this"


Know what I mean?