Staff Audit and Critique: Round 2

[Cat Rage Room]

As a final note to GLD, I totally didn't mean to give the impression of 'No it's not our fault, it's your fault' when it came to my 'Members' post. I just wanted to add another perspective to what has essentially been an ongoing issue here. My thoughts in no way were mutually exclusive to what you, Quex, or anyone else was trying to get across. I just wanted to offer an additional thought in the pool that might help if everyone adopted it.

To Quex in particular, I don't think your posts and thoughts were ignored. A lot of times we read something, and wait until later until we can really get our thoughts together to respond to it properly with enough information. In my case, I dislike responding to posts unless I have all the information at hand. I was definitely planning to respond and inspect your grievance, Quex, but I really wanted more info to go on. I didn't want you to SEARCH THE SPECIFIC POST, but I did feel as if your info was vague and I wanted more info so I could help.

None of that really matters now though. However, I'm gonna go, I have some packing to do.

 

[Dashell]

To Quex in particular, I don't think your posts and thoughts were ignored. A lot of times we read something, and wait until later until we can really get our thoughts together to respond to it properly with enough information. In my case, I dislike responding to posts unless I have all the information at hand. I was definitely planning to respond and inspect your grievance, Quex, but I really wanted more info to go on. I didn't want you to SEARCH THE SPECIFIC POST, but I did feel as if your info was vague and I wanted more info so I could help.

ah well, please say that next time so I don't feel ignored.
And again, I gave you all I know about it. I don't know how I could be more specific at this point

At any rate I didn't mean for it to turn into a big deal, it was just something that happened that had annoyed me and made me feel like I couldn't report stuff. You don't need to do anything to fix it or anything, I'm just making a point... sorry it turned into what it did

 

[Flintlock]

ah well, please say that next time so I don't feel ignored.

I always appreciate it when an organisation I am trying to contact responds, even automatically, with "we have received your message and will reply to it shortly". It's better then what the other 90% of organisations do, which is nothing.

I'm trying to make an analogy with post reports on this site, in case you didn't get that.

 

[looneymoon]

Is it really so bad here?
>>No not really. I actually quite like it here and generally things run pretty smoothly. It's just rather annoying that when something goes wrong a gigantic drama springs from it because it's not handled all that well.

I don't think there's anything so fundamentally wrong with the forum community that it needs to be overhauled. There just needs to be a more effective response system to problems. Otherwise it seems small issues fester and then explode in giant dramalamadingdong.

That said I think the stuff that happens on site (front page content and stuff) and the forum have kind of become separate entities (idk if anyone considers that a problem in itself idk?). I mean, yeah FF7 brought me here but at the end of the day it's the people that make me stay. Because I like it here - I like the atmosphere, I like the feel, I like the people. When things are good things it's awesome. When problems arise it's like this giant clusterfuck. I think all anyone wants is for the staff to mitigate these issues better so maybe a significant portion of the memberbase doesn't get crazy angry every couple of months? I mean, isn't that what this thread is trying to figure out? Site growth is kind of separate issue I think.

I mean... What do you mean not contribute what more do you need other than my illustrious presence /cigarette drag

 

[Ghost X]

I concur with those saying there is little issue with the site and such. I think drama only happens when the forum rules aren't strictly enforced. On the site development side of things, I think your coverage is second to none...












...(if I'm wrong, someone tell me which site is number one so I can defect). j/k.

 

[Ryushikaze]

ah well, please say that next time so I don't feel ignored.
And again, I gave you all I know about it. I don't know how I could be more specific at this point

At any rate I didn't mean for it to turn into a big deal, it was just something that happened that had annoyed me and made me feel like I couldn't report stuff. You don't need to do anything to fix it or anything, I'm just making a point... sorry it turned into what it did

Having just looked over the record of the incident, I can say that the official warning does not mention who reported the post, nor does anyone on staff know who did, either.
It would seem your identity was just guessed back then, unless a member of staff was just not coming forward about spilling the beans.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Having just looked over the record of the incident, I can say that the official warning does not mention who reported the post, nor does anyone on staff know who did, either.
It would seem your identity was just guessed back then, unless a member of staff was just not coming forward about spilling the beans.

Are you saying reports are normally anonymous?

 

[Ⓐaron]

Speaking of communication from the staff. I was quite surprised when I found that I was banned from a section of the forums. No warnings or explanations. Not even a notice that it had been done. I just logged in and a section of the forum was gone for me.

This is not even remotely true. You were very explicitly told that if you continued making hostile posts in the debate forum you would have your access removed. You continued making them, so staff did exactly as we said we would.

Regarding the rest of the thread, I've been reading it, but I've been refraining from responding until everything dies down at the request of other staff members.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Are you saying reports are normally anonymous?

No, nothing like that. I'm saying we did not divulge Quex's identity in the official warning given out, though my phrasing was very vague there, so my bad.

In short, when you report a post, which post is reported and the name of the person reporting it are automatically entered into a thread in the staff section. Additional reports of the same post add new posts in the thread, again with a label of who has made the report. At no point is a report anonymous for staff, and I am unsure if that functionality can even be turned on or hacked in.

What I'm saying is that the official warning given to the post- the staff section also keeps a record of every official warning and infraction given out- does not mention Quex as being the one to report the post.

 

[Aqua]

I can't say I have any personal feelings about any specific mod and I already voiced my concerns in the mod response thread.

I just hope that the staff here won't forget to work on improving staff communication with members when reports are made just because there's a lull in action. It would be sad to see this problem crop up again in the future. :\

 

[Celes Chere]

Alright, alright. Let me just clear this out because this is actually MY fuck up. Yes, the "lol wat" post was by me in the LTD thread. So I had sent Quex "thanks for reporting me". However, no Mod had given me in the info, so it is not their fault, it's mine for sending the message. On MSN I said 'someone told me' but it was not a staff member. So we can drop that, it wasn't even a serious issue and I totally thought we were over it O_o. Sorry for causing this problem. ._.;;;

Fuck yeah. But is it all Staff's fault, considering we were working with bits, pieces, fragmented information (I for one had no clue this was going on for so long), and everyone's hands in the pot? I say no.

I'm really not mad at the staff about it anymore, I was when nothing was being done. Once the thread was made however, everyone tried to understand it and come to a conclusion which I appreciated! I don't think it's your guy's fault, I think there was a lot of misunderstanding. And in that same thread we found out some of you forgot about the stuff you said you'd work on, which is the only thing that still irks me. But I don't think anyone is blaming some staff members for not being around, if life gets busy it gets busy. And if you ask for an explanation of things, I think that's fine too.

I'm officially retiring, effective immediately.

NOOOO, why are you doing that? D: You're really one of the best Mods here stap that.

Also why's everyone getting so angry? <='(

 

[Ryushikaze]

In fact, as an example, I'll use a random report I made to demonstrate what the report system shows us.

Ishtar has reported a post.

Reason:

Based on the reasoning behind deleting Drake's posts, this one might need to be axed too. Asking for second opinion.

Post: The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril)
Forum: Compilation General
Assigned Moderators: N/A

Posted by: Saria
Original Content:

Also...
IF Cloud and Aerith are together that leaves... Tifa and Zack alone?

Solution: Fack

What we see is the reporter, the report reason, and the post reported, with a link pointing in. So yes, we did know Quex had made the report, and it's possible someone on staff told the person she reported that Quex did the reporting, but this was not done in the warning that staff handing out for the incident.

ADDENDUM: And it's mostly irrelevant anyways since Teef posted. Ah well.

 

[Madame Mayor]

No, nothing like that. I'm saying we did not divulge Quex's identity in the official warning given out, though my phrasing was very vague there, so my bad.

In short, when you report a post, which post is reported and the name of the person reporting it are automatically entered into a thread in the staff section. Additional reports of the same post add new posts in the thread, again with a label of who has made the report. At no point is a report anonymous for staff, and I am unsure if that functionality can even be turned on or hacked in.

What I'm saying is that the official warning given to the post- the staff section also keeps a record of every official warning and infraction given out- does not mention Quex as being the one to report the post.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought that sounded odd.

In all honesty I hope that the person who was reported in this case just happened to guess their reporter rather than someone on staff just giving out that information.

EDIT: And from what Tiff has said that's exactly the thing that happened here. Good to know, because I was legitimately worried for a moment there.

 

[Dashell]

ugh never mind

 

[Tetsujin]

OH THE PLOT TWISTS

 

[Joker]

Dude, fuck this. I'm going to be bluntly honest here - of all the staff on the forum, there are only three that I trust and have faith in at all times. And now one of them has just quit. Now when there's a problem in the future, we're short the person who is best able to get people to shut up and handle things calmly. Fucking fuck FUCK.

I'm out.

Getting my affairs in order and I'm gone.

edit: I really appreciate that, Tres, thank you; now I just hope the rest of staff follows in your lead. And tbh, waiting for things to die down is pointless. If whatever your thoughts are would cause an issue now, they'd cause one later after everyone cools off, anyway. And once things die down is the worst time to make a post with any kind of feedback, because then, what kind of reply will there be that will actually help things? There's no point in waiting.

 

[Octo]

My head is fucked at the moment so apologies in advance if none of this makes sense.

Regarding Mods, do they actively monitor their specific section? By that I mean do they routinely read through stuff posted or is it just a matter of waiting for something to be reported? I feel like if mods we're having to keep an eye on things, it could avoid some of the problems we've been seeing ie: Mods not having an idea of context when a post is reported, which can lead to a bit of finger twiddling while they figure it out, leading to member frustration. Also, mods could nip potential flashpoints in the bud before stuff escalates.

If Mods don't routinely go over stuff in their section, I have to ask what the point is in having a mod for each section, if it doesn't really matter who sees the report? Not saying anyone should be de-modded here though!

RE: Quex's issue, it seems like in that instance whoever you reported did guess and I would suggest that when someone gets on a persons case for reporting them (whether they did or not) then that in itself should be a warnable/bannable offence. If you get reported and are found to be in the wrong, suck it up and shut the fuck up. If you feel its an unfair decison then take it up with the mods. Harrasing the people who "reported" you achieves nothing. EDIT: Tiff posted while I was typing and I didnt see it, just want to point out that I wasn't specifcally telling you to STFU Tiff, I was talking hypothetically. I still stand by what I said, but it looks like this instance wasn't as serious as I thought.

What else? Mog its a shame you felt like you had to step down. I've always found you to be a level headed guy but I do understand your frustration, I hope you continue to be an active member as much as your free time allows

Regarding Mogs comment (paraphrasing) Ask not what your Forum can do for you - ask what you can do for your Forum

I think he makes a good point. I personally know I can't really contribute much in terms of content, and I doubt Mog is suggesting everybody has to come up with tons of ideas and shit (although nobody should feel like they can't put forward ideas - Flintlock being a shining example, even though he's relatively new he's not afraid to stick his neck out and suggest stuff)

Furthermore to that I want to say that every member should feel like they have an equal stake in this community, I know its easy to feel overwhelmed if you've only been posting here for a short while, but I would urge people not to feel intimidated.

Where was I? Oh yeah. What I try to do for this community is to (and this is going to sound a bit preachy ) treat others how I'd like to be treated myself. This isn't out of the goodness of my heart, I know people here think I'm a nice person but the truth is I am a massive bastard with a hair trigger temper and sometimes I have to fight with every fibre of my being not to flame the shit out of everything

I think for the most part everyone here gets along just peachy, but then there are occasions where I think people haven't been very courteous to each other (or y'know outright doucheness) and there just doesn't seem to be a need for it. Not saying everyone has to be nicey-pie to each other, just a basic level of civility that keeps things ticking over. Or failing that, the ignore button

Oh and (don't worry the sermon is almost over!) I try to read peoples posts properly before responding, and if I don't understand something, I ask for clarification. Misunderstandings are so often at the root of drama and I've lost count of the number of times someone has to say 'yeah but I didn't say that' and then theres an atmosphere.

Go in peace!

 

[Cookie Monster]

So, to let you folks know what we're doing about this. Seems we'll be making a change to the rule on harassment. We're going to make it clear that harassment won't be tolerated. Ryu created a few threads that have been sticky'd to remind us of past decisions, etc. That should help us act more swiftly in the future. Pretty sure all staff members are going to be much more open with each other from now on. I'll make sure that happens. We've also developed a procedure for handling reports, which is quoted below,

Again, a thread specifically for what we, as stuff must and should do regarding reports. Consider this OP currently a suggestion of what we should do.

1. At least one member of staff must contact the reporter and let them know their report was received.

2. That staff member must let other staff know that this action has been taken

3. All staff must examine the staff concensus thread for same or similar issues.

4. Staff must either decide within a day of receiving the report, or inform the reporter of the delay in decision. The staff member who contacts the reporter must inform staff that contact has been made, either informing them of the decision or the delay.

etc. etc.

Also, all of you need to message MOG and tell him to comeback to staff. That was just batshit.

 

[Celes Chere]

suck it up and shut the fuck up.

lol wow okay
and I wasn't harassing her just so you know
edit: BUT YEAH IT WAS STILL MY MISTAKE SO I FEEL MOG LEFT ALL BECAUSE OF NOTHING ;-;

 

[Octo]

I didn't see your post Tiff, I've edited accordingly

 

[Cookie Monster]

Dude, fuck this. I'm going to be bluntly honest here - of all the staff on the forum, there are only three that I trust and have faith in at all times. And now one of them has just quit. Now when there's a problem in the future, we're short the person who is best able to get people to shut up and handle things calmly. Fucking fuck FUCK.

I'm out.

Getting my affairs in order and I'm gone.

edit: I really appreciate that, Tres, thank you; now I just hope the rest of staff follows in your lead. And tbh, waiting for things to die down is pointless. If whatever your thoughts are would cause an issue now, they'd cause one later after everyone cools off, anyway. And once things die down is the worst time to make a post with any kind of feedback, because then, what kind of reply will there be that will actually help things? There's no point in waiting.

Settle down there sailor, we're all going to get his ass back on staff.

 

[Ryushikaze]

lol wow okay
and I wasn't harassing her just so you know

We believe you.

Though looking through the warning area, there are a lot of folks who definitely run afoul of what Octo's talking about, even flaming out staff for giving them a warning.

Remember, folks, if you feel you've been punished improperly, flying off the handle at a mod is not the way to go about getting your case heard.

And yes, we'll be getting Mog back at severely reduced pay, don't you worry.

 

[Celes Chere]

MEGGY'S LEAVING TOO, CAN YOU MAKE HIM STAY ALSO? Why's everyone leaving I don't like this I will cry. =(

But I will say I think certain members won't speak freely because the Mods may treat them a bit unfairly. Claiming that they are shit stirring or trolling when they are not, perhaps? I think that the Mods shouldn't be quick to write someone off as doing that even if it seems like it to them, because they could be genuinely trying to get their points across. I don't want everyone to start leaving because they don't like the way TLS was run. Remember when we used to have fun, guys?

REMEMBER?

I think staff should commit the improvements they need to make to memory, so that TLS isn't so... angry anymore. And well you guys are already starting to do that, so that's good. Just thought I would say that because I'm sad people are quitting the team and leaving TLS (or are considering it). -sobbu-

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yes, DOUBLE POSTAN, but since this is a hot button topic right now, since Mog just quit his position, and since it's an excellent example of what he meant by community involvement

He wants us to translate a never before translated Square title book no, not FF related, but one of their eldest series to be sure.

We've raised nearly enough money to get this stupidly expensive book so we can scan and translate it. We need $40 more bucks. Ten folks with $4 could cover that. Or four with 10. My point, we're close, it's a way to rather easily and cheaply aid the community.

So go give Tetsu some money so he can buy us the book.

 

[Tifabelle]

yo what happened in here?

Ok, just to address Mog's issues. I feel like the front page and the forum, while part of the same site, are not really the same beast. What happens on the forum between members and staff has nothing to do with what's being done on the front page. Regardless of member participation in front page stuff, mods are still expected to control the forum community and respect the members. I think a lot of us see that as separate issues.

Should members contribute more to front page stuff? Maybe. But just because a member doesn't participate in things doesn't mean staff don't have a responsibility to them on the forums.

It was a legit, earnest question. Some parts of this topic definitely give/gave me a 'end of my rope' vibe. It's been said a few times 'Since the last time this topic has came up (December) nothing has changed.' I'm just confused on exactly what's occurred (besides the stuff with Tiff recently) for a lot of people to feel that way, which is why I asked for specific examples.

As far as I know, the place has been running smoothly for the past few months with nothing of note going on.

I just wanted to address this. Just because nothing of note happens, doesn't mean things have changed.

I was looking at the two larger incidents as my two points. Just because they're months apart isn't any indication that things are better. Staff even admitted to forgetting things that were said during the Ryu drama. And that has really disappointed some members.

I'm sorry that Mog felt the need to step down, I really don't think that's the answer. He's a valued staff member, and I'm sorry to see that one argument makes him feel like he needed to "retire". (unless he left bc he's going away in which case I'll stfu)

All that being said, I would love to see members contribute more to community events like commentaries and whatnot. Now, I for one don't have technical knowledge or translation skills, so really the best I can do is join in commentaries. I don't know how to do anything else. (and I don't have time to join Mog's FFVII playthrough or Flint's race, baw ;.; ).