Staff Audit and Critique: Round 2

[Dashell]

It was more like "you all suck CAUSE Mog is leaving"

His post was quite blunt but he said it would be. I think if he wants to leave we should just let him leave in peace. No need to try and cause trouble now.

 

[Hisako]

I think a lot of the times he gets called out for 'his shit' on the Forum, when no shit exists. *shrugs* Maybe we are like the only ones who see that though, idk.

I respect Megs for fighting the good fight, but there are times where I'd rather him just... let things slide? idk

Part of it is just how language is used to the point where a simple debate becomes wildin' confrontational. Hyperbole and verbal flailing doesn't really help either

It's not just him though, there are heaps of instances where an argument sprouts up somewhere and I just want to hug everything into submission so that they stop arguing anymore blah

 

[Tennyo]

Except Meggy would never say that. <=/

Except that's exactly what his post said:

Dude, fuck this. I'm going to be bluntly honest here - of all the staff on the forum, there are only three that I trust and have faith in at all times. And now one of them has just quit. Now when there's a problem in the future, we're short the person who is best able to get people to shut up and handle things calmly. Fucking fuck FUCK.

I'm out.

Getting my affairs in order and I'm gone.

It sounds to me like he has a lot to say that he's never bothered to say. I just want to know how this means the rest of us are so bad that Mog leaving means it's time to just fuck everything.

I also want to know how I was magically supposed to know he was already planning to leave before this and how this means I was supposed to magically not take his post the way I did.

There seems to be a lot that should have been said that was never said. I feel like staff is being blamed for never trying to fix these issues, but if we didn't know about them, how could we?

And I would like to hear this from him, please.

Open communication works both ways. If he is still planning to leave then fine, but if he isn't going to communicate any issues that have been bottled away and building up, I don't know how I'm supposed to take anything that has been said in this thread seriously.

 

[Max Payne]

Except that's exactly what his post said.

No, it isn't.

 

[Tennyo]

Could he come and explain it to me, then?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Given that we're only a few months from a 'That's not what I said' 'Yes it is!' shitstorm, how about we don't treat this as a matter of WHETHER someone said something, but why that person's words got read as saying something.

I'm staying neutral here, but I'm going to agree that Omega's original post, declaring there are only three members of staff he can trust does imply- whether he meant to or not- that the rest of can't be trusted, and declaring that he's leaving as a result of mog's destaffing furthers that idea.
Whether he meant to or not, he came across to Tenny as insulting staff, and I can easily see why what he said was read that way.

 

[Celes Chere]

It's not just him though, there are heaps of instances where an argument sprouts up somewhere and I just want to hug everything into submission so that they stop arguing anymore blah

Real life isn't like that, though. You can't just ignore all problems and expect them to go away. =/ Which is kinda why I got annoyed when people were saying: "Oh just ignore Kobato Tiff she'll go away"
Uhm.
I like that Meggy stands up for himself and for others, and I think anyone else should do that too. You have to work out your differences and shit, or else nothing will ever be resolved. People think you can just ignore shit and it will magically disappear.

I also want to know how I was magically supposed to know he was already planning to leave before this and how this means I was supposed to magically not take his post the way I did.

I never said you had to magically do anything. O_o
I'm just saying.... Meggy isn't that type of person at all.

And I would like to hear this from him, please.

Last post I read he calmly explained he was on a shitty phone, and would be responding later. So why... are you so upset about that?

Well the staff isn't perfect? No one is. I think issues here should be resolved because more than just Meggy is leaving. They might not say it here but... it's happening. It's upsetting. Obviously there is something wrong here, and if everyone could address the issues instead of like.. pretending they don't exist? That'd be cool. Of course that would require everyone to speak up about what's wrong with the staff // the site // memberbase and idk if everyone's willing to do that so whopee dooo

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I confess I have not read through the thread in its entirety, though I will at some point (oh god). But to me, shouldn't we be less of "she said this", "he did that", "I meant this", "they meant that" and be more "how should we solve this?" and "what would make the forum better?" and "what would cause all this crap go away?". Maybe I'm being too "zomgtakeachillpilzandhugfolks" but honestly this is degenerating to a shitfest and I think that we'd, and the rest of the forum, would be better served by trying to figure out how to make things better...?

 

[Fangu]

Well the staff isn't perfect? No one is. I think issues here should be resolved because more than just Meggy is leaving. They might not say it here but... it's happening. It's upsetting. Obviously there is something wrong here, and if everyone could address the issues instead of like.. pretending they don't exist? That'd be cool. Of course that would require everyone to speak up about what's wrong with the staff // the site // memberbase and idk if everyone's willing to do that so whopee dooo

idk, I thought the problems here were pretty much aired out. The members get to voice their opinion to each staff person in this thread. All of the mods have posted their opinions in this thread and the other one.

The whole thing is confusing to me. I start thinking I have a decent view of the situation, and then you post something like this Tiff, no offense I dunno, I just get the feeling there's something I don't know about here. Some old conflict or other things everyone is thinking but no one is saying. Does someone want to revolutionize everything and change the entire staff or something? I mean if so, that's an honest opinion. (I'm not accusing anyone of saying something like that, it's just an example on a thing that some might be thinking but no one is saying.)

Anyway, I just want to say as a relatively new member (6 months) that whatever stuff you guys have going on, I like all of yous and I have no problems with the current staff. So like... please don't cause anything majorly dramatic that causes the end of the site? Problems must be aired and talked about, absolutely, but the stuff with threatening to leave and such... I don't think it's very constructive, and the whole things is very emotionally fueled. I'm sad Omega is leaving and I told him I wish he'd stay, because nobody should have to leave. There's room for everyone!

/2 kroner

 

[Celes Chere]

Lol I'm not trying to start anything and stuff... Mostly I just want to stand up for Meggy because he deserves it, I am actually appalled some people agree that he causes the majority of dramaz? like how

 

[Alex]

I don't know how I'm supposed to take anything that has been said in this thread seriously.

I'm way ahead of you partner.

This thread has been an absolute joke from the get-go.

 

[Octo]

^I don't understand what you mean, the intention of the thread was another staff review. True it has gone off on a tangent somewhat, but I don't think it was a joke to begin with, unless you're saying staff reviews are pointless...in which case what alternatives would you suggest? I don't know what the fuck else can be done to be honest.

Last post I read he calmly explained he was on a shitty phone, and would be responding later. So why... are you so upset about that?

Apologies if I'm wrong, but I think Tenny meant she'd like to hear what Omega meant from him and not Dacon or somebody else.

 

[Alex]

Staff reviews aren't pointless. Far from it.

This review is thoroughly pointless though and completely brought about as a knee-jerk reaction to some thoroughly shoddy handling of a delicate situation on behalf of staff. Something that they have since owned up to, apologised for and are have since taken measures to ensure it won't happen again.

Hell, I've only seen vague evidence that the first review did any good. I'd have loved to see staff try to build on that before starting a new topic to continue rehashing issues that should have been settled in the previous dramatic thread of the moment. Seems like a waste of time and resources that could be put to more productive use somewhere else.

 

[Hisako]

Real life isn't like that, though. You can't just ignore all problems and expect them to go away. =/ Which is kinda why I got annoyed when people were saying: "Oh just ignore Kobato Tiff she'll go away"
Uhm.
I like that Meggy stands up for himself and for others, and I think anyone else should do that too. You have to work out your differences and shit, or else nothing will ever be resolved. People think you can just ignore shit and it will magically disappear.

I just said that I appreciated Megs fighting the good fight. Nowhere did I say people had to ignore all problems.

I'm not naive. I think the things that have happened recently are testament to the fact that people do have to stand up and work out differences and shit, otherwise things will constantly end up the way they did recently.
But at the same time, in the past I've felt that there are more minor issues here and there where I thought, "does this really have to escalate like this? It wasn't really... a big deal" sort of thing

Also,

I am really fucking sick of posts like these.

 

[Max Payne]

I'm really sick of wishy washy passive aggressive bullshit instead of people just saying what they really feel.

So I guess we both have to deal.

 

[Hisako]

Well why don't you say so instead of making pithy 3-word posts that don't explain anything
shrug.gif

 

[Octo]

Staff reviews aren't pointless. Far from it.

This review is thoroughly pointless though and completely brought about as a knee-jerk reaction to some thoroughly shoddy handling of a delicate situation on behalf of staff. Something that they have since owned up to, apologised for and are have since taken measures to ensure it won't happen again.

Hell, I've only seen vague evidence that the first review did any good. I'd have loved to see staff try to build on that before starting a new topic to continue rehashing issues that should have been settled in the previous dramatic thread of the moment. Seems like a waste of time and resources that could be put to more productive use somewhere else.

Fair enough, I don't 100% agree though, I still think there have been some worthwhile things said here. Also, I was under the impression that the staff reviews were going to be a regular thing anyway, it did feel like this one was a bit too soon though.

Real life isn't like that, though. You can't just ignore all problems and expect them to go away. =/ Which is kinda why I got annoyed when people were saying: "Oh just ignore Kobato Tiff she'll go away"

For the record Tiff, I never meant that the problem would go away if you ignored it. People were using words like 'stalking' and 'harassment' and though I'm not in a positon to say whether or not that is what was happening, I know from personal experience that the best way to deal with people like that is not to interact with them, or even acknowlege that they are having an effect on you because that is exactly what they want. I am not saying that you shouldn't have reported it (here and whereever else it was happening)

I am also not saying that if you feel like the situation was not handled effectively that you can't say so, its just that its a tricky thing to negotiate in such circumstances.

 

[Max Payne]

Well why don't you say so instead of making pithy 3-word posts that don't explain anything
shrug.gif

Why don't you stop crying about what I do and focus on what you CAN do.

I didn't see the need to elaborate on it any further when others have already done so, and quite well thanks to Tiff, Aki, etc.

I felt the need to reinforce that point, however "pithy" I did it is irrelevant and is entirely a point of non-contention. Dwelling on it, and making a point of complaining about it, well exactly how contributory is that?

You chastise people for making issues out of nothing then turn right around and do it yourself.

 

[Hisako]

Because I, too, have put all my efforts into actually contributing to this thread, and then when you come around and post some stuff like that, it's just... no.

Don't see the need to elaborate? Don't post. It's what I've done for the past 10 pages, otherwise I'd have spammed the thread with opinions already. But hey! This is the staff audit and critique thread. But apprently Staff Emeritus not contributing properly to the thread itself isn't worth discussing.

So what the fuck would I know, huh.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The jury is still out on whether I think this topic (not the concept of Staff audits, but this topic) did any real good for the site and community. I feel actually pretty bad that me leaving Staff contributed to the fallout, but at the same time I think I did it for a good reason; there's no written mandate saying that I'd be gone forever (if any hypothetical return would be okay with everyone in the future), nor am I saying I'm abandoning the site either.

I just need to take some time off for my own personal and professional reasons (I wish I could really illustrate how demanding military life is, especially if you want to progress, and I want to progress), and also I think this site needs to figure itself out and really change to be awesome and see how far it can really get without a force on staff pushing for that change (me). How far can this ship go without its navigator? Can the crew get together and stop fighting and steer it in an awesome direction, or will it just fucking sink itself?

I mean in no way to purport I'm more important than I am, nor do I mean to imply that its about me, but really we could do better. The Staff, the members, everyone. Honestly I think almost all of you are missing the big picture.

 

[Max Payne]

Because I, too, have put all my efforts into actually contributing to this thread, and then when you come around and post some stuff like that, it's just... no.

Don't see the need to elaborate? Don't post. It's what I've done for the past 10 pages, otherwise I'd have spammed the thread with opinions already. But hey! This is the staff audit and critique thread. But apprently Staff Emeritus not contributing properly to the thread itself isn't worth discussing.

So what the fuck would I know, huh.

Sorry I don't rank to your high standards. I wanted to show my support for their point, I contributed whether you approve or not. Get the fuck over it.
I don't need your goddamned approval. Stop backseat modding and get the fuck off your high horse. If a mod had a problem with my post they'd have let me know.
The outright irony of you complaining about people making an issue out of nothing, and here you are smearing the same kind of shit on the thread.

Staff Audit and Critique thread? It's more like let's bitch and moan about Omega for a couple of pages.

EDIT:

Alex is completely right about this shit.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Alright, we really need to try to shift this thread back on the rails here. Shit's getting way too personal, and too nonconstructive. This shit needs to stop. Right now.

Let's check the egos and grudges at the door and please, for God's sake, post constructively on improving the site and/or staff in this thread. No more shit talking or spats, please.

I really believe MOG has a damn good point, and we really do need to discuss, in a friendly, positive and good faith manner, what we can do to improve this site and how we contribute to it.

Being bitter, angry, and confrontational over criticism and ideas doesn't serve any purpose at all. We end up just spinning our wheels, and going into tl;dr fights over meaningless bullshit. It defeats the purpose of this entire thread and the effort MOG took his time to make in trying to make our site and forum better.

If that's all we're gonna be using this thread for, we might as well just close the thread and go about our business. But. I want to believe a good majority of us WANT to improve this place and exchange ideas so let's just do that, and leave the other shit for another time.

 

[Hisako]

"High standards"? Everyone else here has made better posts than what you made back there, dude. Nothing high-standard about that.

It's not an issue out of nothing because everyone else puts in the effort to put reasoning into their opinions, and then you come along and handwave Tennyo's opinions like it didn't matter shit. Wanna show support? Just thank posts like Brooke does.
And I'm not going to "get the fuck over it", because this isn't an isolated case, it's something you've made a habit out of in the past. On the occasion that you've directed it at me, I've let it slide, because I thought, "it's not worth bringing it up again" or "this thread isn't really all that serious about the issue". But it's reaching a head in a thread that people are genuinely trying to contribute to and improve the way moderators handle disciplinary issues, and you have the gall to go "stop crying about what I do" as if it's a non-issue.

The flippancy with which you approach the debate just pisses me off. You don't even put in the effort to present reasoning. I should have known better and just reported the post, but whatever. You're a gigantic mile off when you think that I want you do behave just so you can have my approval.

I'm just airing a fucking grievance with the way you talk to people, so don't project your shit onto me.

I'm just going to post a suggestion or two I posted back in the previous thread, and be done with it. It's not like my opinions are apparently worth anything, it's just all "backseat modding" and "high horse" bullshit.


OT: I think we could maybe open up a disciplinary section for the more serious issues that crop up between members, reserved for the mods and the parties involved. A lot of the time when we're presented with problems with members, it becomes a public issue that maybe wasn't necessary to become public.
It's not a huge step towards solving the way staff and members interact, but just a way of streamlining how we deal with forum issues, maybe? If a section was involved where parties involved could speak their piece first without having to wade through other members opinions in order to clarify the problems, there would be less modding headaches involve and the process of dealing out disciplinary action would be a lot more transparent.

 

[Max Payne]

What was that bullshit you said?

Report/handle your problems in private, don't make a public issue of it, etc? Good job taking your own advice there chief. You have been so goddamned hypocritical here it's downright appalling.

thread that people are genuinely trying to contribute to and improve the way moderators handle disciplinary issues, and

Fallacy, what's gone down here is just everyone bitching at each other, and you give me shit over nothing. Literally, NOTHING.

It's not an issue out of nothing because everyone else puts in the effort to put reasoning into their opinions, and then you come along and handwave Tennyo's opinions like it didn't matter shit

Hyperbole, now you're deliberately inventing shit to attack me with. I didn't "handwave" her opinions, and I was going to respond to the post she made in response to me before you decided now was the time to start bleeding at me over nothing.

The flippancy with which you approach the debate just pisses me off.

There was no flippancy until you made this ass backwards attempt at telling me off.

I'm just airing a fucking grievance with the way you talk to people, so don't project your shit onto me.

What you are doing is bitching and moaning about me in the wrong place for it, over quibbles. If anyone is projecting anything here, it's you.

 

[Hisako]

What was that bullshit you said?

Report/handle your problems in private, don't make a public issue of it, etc? Good job taking your own advice there chief. You have been so goddamned hypocritical here it's downright appalling.

I said I should have known better. I admitted as such.

Fallacy, what's gone down here is just everyone bitching at each other, and you give me shit over nothing. Literally, NOTHING.

Yes, literally nothing, because that's all there was to your post.

What you are doing is bitching and moaning about me in the wrong place for it, over quibbles. If anyone is projecting anything here, it's you.

HURR HURR BACKSEAT MODDING, HE OBVIOUSLY WANTS ME TO ACT A CERTAIN WAY SO HE CAN APPROVE OF ME

I'm done here now. I'd PM my grievances but I don't think it's worth the angst anymore. I just made my suggestions as to how to improve the mod issue, I'm done now.