Staff Audit and Critique: Round 2

[Dawnbreaker]

Another hour of my life (well half) that I won't get back. Oh hell.

I've been pretty vocal, so let's not change that trend, hmmm?

My thoughts: everyone is overfuckingreacting. Seriously. The mods made a few errors, the members haven't been as contributing or supportive and everyone thinks the place is blowing up. I. Don't. Get. It. This place isn't a haven of tranquility but who really wants that? Without conflict there is no real exchange of opinions and ideas, no promise of change.

So what's to be done about it? It's relatively simple, IMO. Have more communication between staff about issues and have more contribution from members. Have a thread in staff specifically for any "dead" issues that possibly could arise again (so those who are out of the loop can get back in the loop asap). Have staff hold back on responding to threads in detail until they've been briefed. Ask members what they'd like to see. Make a poll or two. Honestly this is all off the top of my head, but really this situation is fixable.

Also, glad to see Ryu restored and sad to see Mog quit. Honestly Mog, I hope you reconsider if it's about the site situation. Leaving over your personal and professional requirements is perfectly acceptable (and much better than just vanishing like some mods do) but it's sux if you quit because you feel the situation is hopeless.

Be the change? Alright, I'm good with that. If there's a good project I can assist with I will (I've already agreed to do commentary on something, once I can get it to work). If others are so interested, staff and member alike, I think this will be easily amendable.

 

[Tennyo]

I'm extremely disappointed in two things.

First, as has been mentioned, it feels like nothing's changed. Like...at all. All the discussion and debate and arguments and agreement and everything that happened in December, and it honest to God feels like nothing has come of it. This has been expressed elsewhere, so I have nothing to elaborate on.

Secondly, though...twice now - and yes, I realize it's only me asking for it - I've said that I would really like to hear what the mods think of all this. Feedback, if you will. And not one person has had anything to say. "I read everything and try to do better" isn't really helpful (sorry to put you on the spot here, Tennyo), because it's not constructive. It's like a bunch of kids in trouble in grade school that are just kind of meekly looking at the floor while they think of how much trouble they're going to be in when they get home and blankly saying 'yes sir/ma'am' (whichever gender your principal was, natch).

There's no dialogue between staff and members AT ALL. The whole point of all this is to try and make things better and more enjoyable for everyone. Nobody likes to feel like they're being picked on, or like their lives are being dissected for every little negative thing. RESPOND. Don't just sit there taking things lying down. Give us something to work with. If members have a specific thing that they're not especially happy with, don't NOT reply to that and then later say that you've read it and taken it to heart. Talk to us;, especially here; ask questions to try and see what people are looking for or suggesting, talk to them about the way everything plays out in your mind and your outlook on things, whatever. If we're not talking and trying to understand each other, and then taking that and learning from it so we can actually move forward, not a goddamn thing changes and we hash this out again three months from now when something inevitably occurs.

Well before hand I didn't feel there was much to comment on, but if you really want it, then here it is. Some of this will reflect recent developments in this thread after the above post was made.

This is a fan site that is supposed to be done for fun. This is not your life, this is not some real world nation with a government that impacts your life. This is the internet. People are here for fun, not because it's some sort of job. None of us need to be here. None of us would die if TLS didn't exist.

And you know, some of the people who accuse me of not doing anything have also accused me elsewhere on this forum of over-modding. I'm not even quite sure how that's possible.

I'm not surprised in the least that Mog would decide to leave. As I said before we do this for fun. We don't owe you anything. Not a single thing. In addition to this, people who say that Yop needs to stay out of things forget that HE OWNS THE SITE. It's because of him you all have a forum to come to.

I do my best to deal with issues in a calm manner. Simple reminders of rule breaking without the use of the warning or infraction system have been met with people flipping the shit out at me, threatening to leave TLS forever in a flood of drama because oh no the Mods won't let them spam all over and act like dicks to the people they don't like. I know of at least one person who left TLS because I told them to stop insulting people in the LTD. They freaked the fuck out because of this because I guess I somehow ruined their life for sending them a polite PM about it, and they haven't been back since.

I've had people wax on about how this is all akin to 1984 and we're all Big Brother because having rules on a privately owned website is somehow affecting their personal rights IRL???

I've had people completely ignore me, or even if they replied in private for a bit, suddenly up and stop so they could run off and pout like little children over shit that isn't even that big of a deal.

And this by far is only a tiny sample of what has gone on since I became a mod. I could bring up so much more. But I'd probably only be opening old wounds and causing another round of drama.

So what about you, Omega? I don't even know what you add to this forum. There was a time that I counted you as a one of my good friends on here, but I haven't felt that way in a long while. But you want a conversation? I'm HAPPY to have a conversation if you can be calm and polite and act like an adult. I'm HAPPY to discuss things with ANYONE who wants to.

I mean dang, if people think the communication is so poor THEN WHY HASN'T ANYONE TRIED TO SAY ANYTHING DIRECTLY? I feel like we the staff are supposed to just magically know and do all the work. We aren't servants. TALK TO US, EVERYONE. I'm always down for a chat and PM's do not go ignored. I've brought quite a few issues up in staff over PM's I've received. I have argued with the others and debated things that needed to be changed. I'm sorry that I don't broadcast this everywhere, because I don't feel the need to air members' dirty laundry all over the forum.

And believe me, I've pondered leaving staff before. If I stepped away from this site and never spoke to anyone here ever again it would have zero impact on my life. So why put in the effort? I have other things I can devote my time to.

But Force and Kripey convinced me to stay, because damn it even after all this I still CARE about you. All of you. All the people here. I give a shit about everyone on this forum and I want to make a nice place for you all to come together. I want to stay in touch with all of you. I enjoy chatting, I enjoy your company, I enjoy the good times we have. I like this place and have grown to really love most of the members.

But honestly, sometimes I feel like I'm dealing with people who don't give a shit and just don't appreciate anything. Pointless drama after pointless drama, and I ask myself why do I even bother? How is anything actually important to life?

So yes, I can understand why Mog would want to leave. And you know what? I say good for him. He's got a successful life ahead of him, and if he needs to cut out all the negative to make room for all the good that's coming his way, even if that means TLS, then I wish him well.

And if you want to leave as well, Omega, go ahead. I actually know a few people who have left either because of you or events you were involved in, because they see TLS as expendable if all they are going to get is grief from the member base.

So there, how's that for the mod response you so craved? Does it satisfy your questions and concerns?

If anyone actually wants to chat about this in a calm manner, I'd be down. I won't turn my back on anyone who reaches out to me.

But I dunno, I just might follow Mog out the door here, so maybe no one will want to bother...

Sorry if I pissed anyone off with this post. I don't mean to hurt anyone, but I really feel like it needed to be said, especially since it seemed to have been wanted so much.

 

[Fangu]

Damn Tenny, that's a really good post.

People who have never modded a board thinks it's a privilege, that somehow, because you get access to do some stuff and have your name highlighted, you should take all kinds of crap and serve whatever wish the public has. It's not a privilege, it's a job, a job that takes more sucking it up than you could imagine. The small benefits that comes with it doesn't make up for the frustration it can cause, even on boards where there hardly is any drama. So I can understand perfectly well why Mog left his position and you're thinking the same.

You guys are good mods. You opened up for individual criticism. I've never seen anything like it, and it was like Major Kudos from me when you guys did that the first time.

Re: the Yop stuff, I have to add that I never meant to say that he should keep away from speaking his mind. I meant to say that he is the Boss who has the final say, so if/when he wants to step in (he should have the choice if he wants to or not), people should comply. Yes this is a democracy to some point, but this board runs on a server. It's not just "in the Internet". It's placed somewhere where maintenance is needed, and that means work.

I don't think the members here are ungrateful. I just think some of them don't know what it's like to own or mod a board. I like to believe I've learned something from my modding days, the most important thing being that I would probably never want to be a mod again, because most of the stuff you do is unappreciated and criticised (and rarely in a constructive way) and the rest nobody notices you're actually doing (unless you stop doing them and then it's a shitstorm of complaints, say, with things like spambots or not taking care of maintenance so the board keeps going offline.)

HUGS to all the mods (even the ex-mod, though I hope you come back Mog!)

Also, this "the staff needs to communicate better with the members": in which way? To the members who's said this - I'm still waiting. Is this something like "we want a weekly update from the mod team about what they've been doing" thing, or is it more of an emotional "I want to be sure that someone listens to me when I'm frustrated about something"? Because the latter is really hard to define and to come up with a good way to be sure that everyone feels they're heard.

 

[AvecAloes]

Tenny. Yes.

This is a fan site that is supposed to be done for fun. This is not your life, this is not some real world nation with a government that impacts your life. This is the internet. People are here for fun, not because it's some sort of job. None of us need to be here. None of us would die if TLS didn't exist.

This so much. I understand that for a lot of people here, this site is a means of communication with people who have become their friends, but it is not the only way, and if coming to this site regularly is capitulating drama and negativity for you, then communicate via other methods. Sometimes I think people should really take a step back, decrease their usage/visitation, let their apparent dependence of this site wane for a bit. Honestly, sometimes it's a little bit of a downer to come here, actually, and there have been days when I've been feeling kind of blah that I've told myself to stay away from TLS because I know the negativity here could just feed into my moods. More people need to do this from time to time, methinks.

I do my best to deal with issues in a calm manner. Simple reminders of rule breaking without the use of the warning or infraction system have been met with people flipping the shit out at me, threatening to leave TLS forever in a flood of drama because oh no the Mods won't let them spam all over and act like dicks to the people they don't like. I know of at least one person who left TLS because I told them to stop insulting people in the LTD. They freaked the fuck out because of this because I guess I somehow ruined their life for sending them a polite PM about it, and they haven't been back since.

I get the feeling that people here want more mod response and action as long as it favors them. Just because certain mods are your friends doesn't mean they're not going to warn/infract you if you do something worthy of it. Yes, certain situations might prove to be very complex and deep and you might not be the only one in the wrong, but if you've done something wrong, even if someone else has done the same thing/something worse, don't expect to get by without any consequences.

We aren't servants.

People who have never modded a board thinks it's a privilege, that somehow, because you get access to do some stuff and have your name highlighted, you should take all kinds of crap and serve whatever wish the public has. It's not a privilege, it's a job, a job that takes more sucking it up than you could imagine. The small benefits that comes with it doesn't make up for the frustration it can cause, even on boards where there hardly is any drama.

Yes. Yes yes yes. People need to understand these points especially. Honestly, when I first heard about what being a mod meant, I thought mostly about the "neat privileges" that came along with it - being able to do things that normal members can't do, blah blah blah, until I saw what mods have to deal with. It's not a privilege, and sometimes it's even a chore. Not that the mods here necessarily see it as a negative thing, but sometimes it gets frustrating for them, especially when they're called on to do their job and then get bitched at about doing their job. I'm sure everyone can say "well, if I were a mod, I'd be able to handle XYZ situations so much better than they could" but stop. Wait a second. How easy do you think it is to handle drama situations objectively when you're friends with the people involved? Don't you think that the mods are concerned about how their decisions are going to affect their relationships with the friends that they have on this board? It's. Not. Easy.

But honestly, sometimes I feel like I'm dealing with people who don't give a shit and just don't appreciate anything. Pointless drama after pointless drama, and I ask myself why do I even bother? How is anything actually important to life?

This is what it's been coming down to for several mods. Is it fair that we as a community have made them feel this way? I think not. I understand that if you don't agree with something you should be able to freely discuss this with the mods, but can't we do this is in any kind of mature manner that doesn't make our mods feel like they're accomplishing nothing? If we drive all of our mods away because we can't handle our issues like grownups, where will that leave us? With fewer active members, I can assure you.

 

[Octo]

You guys are good mods. You opened up for individual criticism. I've never seen anything like it, and it was like Major Kudos from me when you guys did that the first time.

This, If I was a mod I would never have done that in a million years and I don't think theres another forum on the internet where that would happen.

I love TLS and I donated (a pittance!) about 400 years ago because I believe in the site, because of the awesome translation work that has been done here and the wealth of FF knowledge compiled (yeah I said it FF!) but I don't feel like TLS owes me anything.

This is just my opinion, but I feel like much of the trouble that springs up is because this place is getting run like a democratic utopia of some sort, yeah a forum would be nothing without its member base but lets face it, a member base can't be trusted to regulate itself.

If I'm honest, the longer I have been here the more comfortable I've become and there have been a few occasions where I've thought this might be a spammy post? Ah fuck it whatever' and posted anyway because I feel like I can get away with it (and I have)

I think the same applies to other members too, when you've been in a place so long you get a misplaced sense of 'ownership' like regulars at a bar.

Like all that shit about the AKA field, that shouldn't have even been a debate. Once it was established that it was confusing (which it was) then a rule should have been set in place, and I know that is eventually what happened but only after pages and pages of 'debate'. What other forum would put up with that?

And I might be wrong, but it feels like the people who are always calling for better communication from the mods about 'what is being done' are often the same people who don't want any rules established?

Often its like people (members and mods) want situations dealt with on an ad-hoc basis which usually involves what the more established/popular members want, peoples personal opinions about particular mods, vendettas and a whole lot of other shit that would not stand up in court

It's a massive headache. I feel like if there was consistency then a lot of this stuff could be avoided.

Regarding what Tenny said

Simple reminders of rule breaking without the use of the warning or infraction system have been met with people flipping the shit out at me, threatening to leave TLS forever in a flood of drama because oh no the Mods won't let them spam all over and act like dicks to the people they don't like.

Seriously what the fuck people? You cannot get any more reasonable than that, yet people want to throw that back in Tenny's face? It's a fucking embarassment that people behave like that.

 

[Tifabelle]

Thanks for the feedback Tenny

I do wanna ask about this:

So what about you, Omega? I don't even know what you add to this forum.

if you could clarify what you mean? Or was this in response to him saying his was leaving?

I mean dang, if people think the communication is so poor THEN WHY HASN'T ANYONE TRIED TO SAY ANYTHING DIRECTLY? I feel like we the staff are supposed to just magically know and do all the work. We aren't servants. TALK TO US, EVERYONE. I'm always down for a chat and PM's do not go ignored. I've brought quite a few issues up in staff over PM's I've received. I have argued with the others and debated things that needed to be changed. I'm sorry that I don't broadcast this everywhere, because I don't feel the need to air members' dirty laundry all over the forum.

I suppose after not hearing back from mods when things are reported, we could PM staff and bug them about it. But, speaking for myself, I know I wouldn't want to feel like a pest or annoy anyone about something if they think I'm just being stupid or w/e. ;o;


I don't think anyone's ungrateful for the stuff the mods do. It's true I don't know what it's like to be a mod, but I do still appreciate what you guys do. I didn't open that other thread just so I can bitch and complain about how I hate the mods or start drama, and if it came off that way then I'm sorry. I opened the thread to open a line of communication - to say hey I wasn't happy with what happened and felt like the mods didn't really care about any of it. I think things did get derailed a bit, but eventually came back around. And I like to think that things can be better now.

Now, I guess to some of you it would have been better if I went with my original instincts and just left TLS for a few days. Maybe I would have gotten over it, but maybe not. Everyone wants people to let things go, but sometimes to let things go you have to speak your mind and open a dialogue. And guess what? I'm not upset about it anymore, so maybe it was better to say something.

I said it before and I'll say it again - I don't hate it here. I don't see TLS as a negative place or stressful place - in fact the opposite. And I'm sorry if I'd prefer not to see TLS implode on itself and have everyone leave. Would it be the end of the world if it did? No, but why should that happen? I mean, is that what people prefer - that everyone just up and leave?

idk, maybe I don't see it. Maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut and sat on it.

Also, this "the staff needs to communicate better with the members": in which way? To the members who's said this - I'm still waiting. Is this something like "we want a weekly update from the mod team about what they've been doing" thing, or is it more of an emotional "I want to be sure that someone listens to me when I'm frustrated about something"? Because the latter is really hard to define and to come up with a good way to be sure that everyone feels they're heard.

I don't think anyone feels like the staff have to tell us every little thing. And going back to what Tenny said, I don't expect mods to air everyone's dirty laundry all the time. So really I think it's more the latter. And I think we came up with a way to get the ball rolling on that - that when a report is received, a mod responds saying it was received, and if after a day or so a decision hasn't been reached, tell the reporter it's still being discussed, and after a resolution is found let the reporter know that as well. As long as that's all done, I think people will feel like they're not being ignored.

Would mods prefer people to use the report system or send a PM to one of you?

I get the feeling that people here want more mod response and action as long as it favors them. Just because certain mods are your friends doesn't mean they're not going to warn/infract you if you do something worthy of it.

uh no. I don't think people feel that way - at least the majority of us. I even admitted that I broke a rule and deserved my infraction. Pretty sure Omega said that he knew his post was going to earn him an infraction when he made it.
And for the record, Tenny (who I consider a friend) has told me in the past to stfu about something and I don't resent her for it at all because I deserved it.
I don't think being a mod is easy at all. And I know other people who have had concerns have also admitted to me that they'd never want to be a mod. They shouldn't just sit back and take bullshit from members all the time, and likewise members shouldn't take bullshit from mods either. It's a give and take, and that's why communication is so important.

I'm sorry if all people see is drama all the time. But I see the stuff in between the drama, and that makes it all worth it. At least imo.

Don't you think that the mods are concerned about how their decisions are going to affect their relationships with the friends that they have on this board?

idk man. I don't think Force thought twice about infracting me. In fact, I contend that Force took great pleasure in giving me that infraction
that's a joke, btw, if it wasn't obvious.



EDIT:

Like all that shit about the AKA field, that shouldn't have even been a debate. Once it was established that it was confusing (which it was) then a rule should have been set in place, and I know that is eventually what happened but only after pages and pages of 'debate'. What other forum would put up with that?

Nah, I agree with this. Like... idk, asking people to fill out an AKA field was a completely reasonable request. Although I think someone was banned before any rule was established and that's partly why people flipped out about it.

And I might be wrong, but it feels like the people who are always calling for better communication from the mods about 'what is being done' are often the same people who don't want any rules established?

On the contrary. Speaking for myself, I think there should be rules and they should be enforced.

Often its like people (members and mods) want situations dealt with on an ad-hoc basis which usually involves what the more established/popular members want, peoples personal opinions about particular mods, vendettas and a whole lot of other shit that would not stand up in court

I addressed this shit in my response to Avec above. I don't think people think they have more rights then anyone else. At least I don't.

 

[AvecAloes]

In fact, I contend that Force took great pleasure in giving me that infraction

Haaaaa that sounds so delightfully dirty

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

i honestly dont know why this was made, besides possibly an inappropriate response to harassment, i thought the mods were doing fine

So what about you, Omega? I don't even know what you add to this forum.

maybe i am not getting the context here but this seems a little rude! idk

i mean honestly i am not sure why this got 9 pages of stuff. there hasn't really been a major incident with the mods as far as i am aware since possibly the ryu incident back in december or whenever that was

like i said, the only problem i could really see was an inappropriate response to harassment, which i thought was dealt with. and granted, i just recently woke up and i still am gonna have a few hours before words will make sense to me, but idgi

 

[Ryushikaze]

Would mods prefer people to use the report system or send a PM to one of you?

Feel free to do both.

uh no. I don't think people feel that way - at least the majority of us. I even admitted that I broke a rule and deserved my infraction. Pretty sure Omega said that he knew his post was going to earn him an infraction when he made it.

Keep in mind Tenny might be speaking of a larger scope than the immediate issues.

idk man. I don't think Force thought twice about infracting me. In fact, I contend that Force took great pleasure in giving me that infraction
that's a joke, btw, if it wasn't obvious.

You've discovered his secret fetish.
Well, ONE OF, anyways.

EDIT:

Nah, I agree with this. Like... idk, asking people to fill out an AKA field was a completely reasonable request. Although I think someone was banned before any rule was established and that's partly why people flipped out about it.

No one was banned- directly- for not filling out their AKA field properly. Most AKA field troubles have actually come about through obstinance regarding the AKA field and becoming aggressive with a mod, along with generally making trouble for other reasons.

On the contrary. Speaking for myself, I think there should be rules and they should be enforced.

Just don't be surprised when Yop enacts the noodz rule, then.

I addressed this shit in my response to Avec above. I don't think people think they have more rights then anyone else. At least I don't.

Again, this is trying not to spill any confidential details, but the reaction some folks have to getting an infraction or even a warning definitely give off a 'how dare you do this to me!' vibe.

i honestly dont know why this was made, besides possibly an inappropriate response to harassment, i thought the mods were doing fine

----

i mean honestly i am not sure why this got 9 pages of stuff. there hasn't really been a major incident with the mods as far as i am aware since possibly the ryu incident back in december or whenever that was

like i said, the only problem i could really see was an inappropriate response to harassment, which i thought was dealt with. and granted, i just recently woke up and i still am gonna have a few hours before words will make sense to me, but idgi

This particular thread was just opened as a followup to the last one, or at least that's what CM said before creating it.

 

[Celes Chere]

One of the reasons when I was up as one of the people chosen to potentially be a Mod and I refused, is for the very reason mentioned in your post, Tenny. xD There is no way in HELL I would be able to deal with people constantly judging me, or yelling at me for making the wrong descision, or doing something wrong. I didn't what that kind of heavy critique and people saying "you're not good enough". And actually Tenny, I've seen people saying that you overmod too. Like you let "mod power" go to your head. Granted this was a long time ago that some people were saying that, but it's just like... really? I personally feel like you aren't as involved as the other Mods, but that's not necessarily bad, it just means there are too many people on the staff right now - there's like, not something everyone can do at the time. I usually agree with the Mods on most matters, this latest drama and the last I think, were the only times that I majorly disagreed. Even then, we worked all of it out and I hope we can continue to do the same this time around.

I also agree with Fangu that no one's being ungrateful, however plenty of members know what it's like to Mod and have experienced it before. I think there are actual problems on the board, because people wouldn't make their concerns up just for the sake of it. Some people are upset and wanting to go, because of how things are run. That's why we should all be honest in this thread, and try to fix things. . . and stop playing the blame game with one another. "ITS THE MODS, ITS THE MEMBERS" It's BOTH of us. I believe that we all have to work together to come to a conclusion.

So what about you, Omega? I don't even know what you add to this forum.

Now this.... was just mean, in my opinion. I fucking love Meggy, and everyone knows it lawl. He's one of my best friends in the entire world, and no matter what happens between us I think I will probably always feel that way. So yeah, I took offense to this part of your post. No matter if you're a Mod, Member, or upset... I don't feel you should tell a member you don't know what they add to us. Meggy adds a lot of laughter, and a lot of common sense. I'm actually pretty upset that he's deciding to leave, because we met here and had some really awesome times here together. I think a lot of the times he gets called out for 'his shit' on the Forum, when no shit exists. *shrugs* Maybe we are like the only ones who see that though, idk.

 

[Tifabelle]

Keep in mind Tenny might be speaking of a larger scope than the immediate issues.

(That was Avec's post. quoting, how do I do it.)

Again, this is trying not to spill any confidential details, but the reaction some folks have to getting an infraction or even a warning definitely give off a 'how dare you do this to me!' vibe.

In response to both, at least speaking for myself, I don't feel that way at all. I don't want people to think that of me, or think that's why I got mad about what happened.
And having spoken to people who've gotten infracted before (now and in the past), it hasn't seemed like they've felt more priveledged than others or anything like that. But I can't jump into anyone's mind, nor do I know how they respond to the mods. So I'm gonna stick to speaking for myself

Just don't be surprised when Yop enacts the noodz rule, then.

I don't see that rule in writing anywhere

 

[Tetsujin]

I quit being a mod here a while ago, mostly because I thought it was unfun and I didn't feel like getting involved in drama and the likes.

 

[Ryushikaze]

(That was Avec's post. quoting, how do I do it.)

I know it was. I just seem to have baleeted her 'quote=" when deleted most of her post.

In response to both, at least speaking for myself, I don't feel that way at all. I don't want people to think that of me, or think that's why I got mad about what happened.

Not referring to you when I said that, don't worry.

And having spoken to people who've gotten infracted before (now and in the past), it hasn't seemed like they've felt more priveledged than others or anything like that. But I can't jump into anyone's mind, nor do I know how they respond to the mods. So I'm gonna stick to speaking for myself

But if you do that, then who will speak for the trees!

I don't see that rule in writing anywhere

I said enact, not enforce, for a reason.

Also, Anonymous people in the Secrets thread- you have some issues with the drama here, speak up onymously here in the thread.

 

[Tennyo]

To address a couple points:

Kripey, don't feel afraid that you might annoy us. You and I have discussed your feelings on some of these issues. I appreciate that you are willing to tell me things, and I appreciate that it can be done in a calm manner. I take everything you say to heart.

@My comment about Omega: Maybe I should have been more clear, but I still stand by it. I feel like he's involved in a good chunk of the drama that goes on, and is always wanting change, but what do we get in return? I was seriously hoping to get a reply from him on this so he could tell me. I never feel like he gives anything in return. I sometimes feel like I need to walk on eggshells so that I don't offend him.

But now he's leaving anyway, which is actually highly insulting in and of itself. How is the forum going to change THAT MUCH after Mog's departure from staff that he has to leave? Does this effect his personal life outside of TLS at all? His job? His family? His friends? His plans for the future?

Is there a reason why we can't just carry on being civil, chatting in threads, not being rude to each other, or something like that? Is there a reason why TLS has to change for the worse because of this, or why people think it will?

I don't think he should leave. I think he should stay. But I can't stop him so whatever.

I also wish Mog would stay on staff but I won't fault him for stepping down. But at the very least he doesn't seem to be leaving the forum altogether which is good.

I really don't like having to say these things, because I really don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but that kind of approach isn't helpful anymore, is it? Maybe it never was.

But I think I've gone beyond the realm of caring. I'm not going to take this "lying down" as Omega himself said in his post.

 

[Celes Chere]

What is 'a good chunk' of drama? What was he involved in that he was more involved in than others? Tbh, Meggy had told me he planned on leaving quite some time ago, and now it's finally happening. I don't think it had anything to do with anything that's going on right now. Like I said in my previous post - Mods think he's shit stirring when he's not, and think he's trolling when he's saying his viewpoint. I would want to leave too if I felt that way all of the time. I don't mean to speak for him, but he said he didn't care if I said so and this is what he has told me himself so... yeah. I can't really speak for him on anything else other than that though.

What does this have to do with his personal life, job, family, friends, etc? It's simply that this Forum is not enjoyable for him anymore. I think people have a right to leave if something is not enjoyable for them. I find it to be a shame and I really want him to say, but it's his decision. I don't think he should be belittled for no raisin at all.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

But now he's leaving anyway, which is actually highly insulting in and of itself. How is the forum going to change THAT MUCH after Mog's departure from staff that he has to leave? Does this effect his personal life outside of TLS at all? His job? His family? His friends? His plans for the future?

if he doesn't enjoy tls as he had in the past, then he has every right to leave

its not like it HAS to affect his relationships with other people or his job to leave. its not like the forum is entitled to have meggy around here always unless it is detrimental to his personal life. (as much as i wish he would come back baw)

 

[Tifabelle]

Kripey, don't feel afraid that you might annoy us. You and I have discussed your feelings on some of these issues. I appreciate that you are willing to tell me things, and I appreciate that it can be done in a calm manner. I take everything you say to heart.

Thank you tenny. I always feel like I can talk to you :3

@My comment about Omega: Maybe I should have been more clear, but I still stand by it. I feel like he's involved in a good chunk of the drama that goes on, and is always wanting change, but what do we get in return? I was seriously hoping to get a reply from him on this so he could tell me. I never feel like he gives anything in return. I sometimes feel like I need to walk on eggshells so that I don't offend him.

hmm, from what I've seen though, he hasn't said anything more than anyone else. And he was civil about it. Aside from his "I'M LEAVING" post, which came off like an overreaction (although as others have said he had been pondering this for some time anyway). I mean, I knew he had been thinking about leaving, and when I read it I was like wth. But even so, I don't see how him leaving is shit-stirring.

 

[Super Mario]

If he leaves, he leaves. Let him be. we're still in contact no matter what.

 

[looneymoon]

I honestly don't know why things have blown up to this level. Why is everyone so mad

Apart from this incident, I can't say the modding here has been bad at all. All this has shown us is that maybe the staff could maybe respond/let a member know more clearly what action they're taking. Did that really warrant all this? I think everyone is overreacting a little bit

For the record Tennyo, and I don't think I mentioned this earlier, out of all the staff you seemed at least the most on the ball with this recent issue (though admittedly that comes from someone uninvolved, but from reading the threads it seemed that way). Which is definitely a major improvement from the "doesn't really do much" impression I had from the last thread.

Also Mog pls come back you were my favourite.....

 

[Octo]

The only thing I ever want in terms of 'what mods are doing' is when stuff happens, such as the recent incident and the last time (and the time before! ) That rules are changed accordingly, or if no rule exists that one is made, that the memberbase is made aware of the change and that it is enforced. I want to know that the stuff that caused problems in the first place is being monitored. Thats pretty much it.

 

[looneymoon]

Well, I think the incident in question happened largely in the visitor/private messages, and I think it's a little bit silly that we ask the staff to keep an eye on those.

I think it just really comes down to - if you have a problem, don't be shy of reporting it. Staff need to be more responsive about informing what action is being taken. If said action is inappropriate - I have a lot of faith in the current (save for the one person I mentioned in the beginning of this thread) to open a constructive dialogue about it. If a lot of people find that they don't then...? Maybe we need new staff?

That's... all really...

 

[Octo]

I totally agree, I'm not asking for staff to have to routinely trawl through VM's, though VM's are as much a part of this site as anything else, and should be subject to the same rules as posts.

Reporting stuff is paramount, if something is getting out of hand. I know most people here (myself included) like to try and work things out first, but sometimes it just isn't working and things have to be reported.

 

[Joker]

I didn't have the time to finish reading Tennyo's longer post before work, but I went ahead and thanked it because what I did get to was excellent. Then I had phone connection issues all day (bluh) and couldn't do much on the forum unless I was hiding out in the bathroom, where the signal is somehow better. :S anyway, it's been an atrociously long and bad day, so I'm going to go back and read everything, but probably won't reply until tomorrow. Rest assured, though, that it will be read and I will be replying.

But I would like to note that while yes, I will be taking my leave as soon as I can get some stuff with the RP sorted out, there are a large number of things that are factoring into this decision. It's not some crazy overreaction to Mog leaving staff - it's been a long time coming, and I've just kept putting it off.

 

[Tennyo]

Well the way you worded really came off as a great big, "You all suck and Mog leaving is going to ruin everything so goodbye."

I really don't understand how we are supposed to not take it as a slap in the face.

It just made me feel all like, why even bother if this is what it comes down to, you know?

And also, you feel like we think you are shit stirring when you aren't and that's why you are leaving? You want to explain this? Because this is news to me. If you are all about open communication now, how about you talk to us about this? I'm hearing other people say this for you, yet you have said nothing yourself.

Is there a reason why you think you can't talk to us?

 

[Celes Chere]

"You all suck and Mog leaving is going to ruin everything so goodbye."

Except Meggy would never say that. <=/