Staff Misconduct Thread

[Makoeyes987]

That's extremely respectful there, Bex.

If this thread's gonna degenerate into insults and shit, then there's no way anything's gonna get discussed or realized, and the thread can just be closed since everyone's fucking around now.

Especially with people mimicking other people's AKA field.

I have not once seen a reasonable argument as to why the expectation of having the AKA field filled out, which was the entire resolution of getting the user name change issues resolved before, is a wholly unreasonable demand.

Especially when no one's being infracted for it in the first place like before. If you don't want to fill it out, that's fine. But if you don't, the user name change will not be done. That's completely fair.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Am I the only one that sees the issue with either, Aaron telling us that staff are too busy and new members are too stupid or nervous to keep track of namechanges/ask a member who are

Considering that I've had a staff member ask me who certain people are in the last hour, I'm not seeing the issue here. And it's not that people are too stupid/nervous to ask, it's that they shouldn't even need to ask. Updating the aka field takes twenty seconds, and that's if the server's being shitty. It's an absurdly simple requirement.

 

[Bex]

Why should I be respectful if Aaron treats the rest of us like complete buffons? Slamming people with penalties if we don't keep up with something as minor as an AKA field?

come on.

 

[Joker]

It's got nothing to do with it being unreasonable. It's unreasonable to do something to someone without first making the forum as a whole aware of the consequences of such actions. And then posting about it when there's absolutely no reason to post about it.

But Mog is right, to an extent; the underlying issue isn't petty, but the manifestation is.

@Aaron: remind me where you work again...?

ed: Mako, you seriously don't know who Joe is? one of the most active users on the forum for the past year and a half and you don't recall anything about him? O.o

 

[Ryushikaze]

The people who are telling Aaron he's an asshole.

You are all also being flaming assholes.

Neither side is blameless here. Aaron fucked up. Scott's being deliberately unhelpful. Joe is now flagrantly violating the rules, maybe to make a point, but you're doing it.

Acting petulant over what is such a minor thing is quite childish.

 

[Tifabelle]

Listen, I really, really don't want to stir the pot. I don't care for confrontation.

I don't think staff is being disrespectful by asking members to follow the rules. Perhaps certain statements have been less than amiable or a bit confrontational, but overall I don't think staff members are being unreasonable.

And whether or not each individual user agrees with the rules is irrelevent. You still have to follow the rules. Feel free to voice your opinions (as I have done as well), but follow the rules. Changing your AKA field in response to the events then trying to make a serious post complaining about staff misconduct is hardly going to be effective.

That doesn't mean the rules can be unfair or anything like that. So there is a balance that needs to be struck.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Why should I be respectful if Aaron treats the rest of us like complete buffons? Slamming people with penalties if we don't keep up with something as minor as an AKA field?

It's not minor to everyone. Whether you agree or not, many members consider being able to identify other users to be important. Belittling their views is itself disrespectful.

It's got nothing to do with it being unreasonable. It's unreasonable to do something to someone without first making the forum as a whole aware of the consequences of such actions.

Noted for future reference. Hopefully we won't do this again.

And then posting about it when there's absolutely no reason to post about it.

Again, noted, although I'm at a loss for how we should handle reverting people's usernames in the future should we need to do so, because I certainly don't want to make the assumption that people will automatically know to check to see whether their user name has been reverted. Granted, the opening post in the name change thread should now make it clear that this has happened, but I think it's safe to assume that not everyone will check it.

@Aaron: remind me where you work again...?

How exactly is this even remotely relevant to this thread?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Bex, if this is about Aaron now, then at least give me some reasonable examples of how he's insulting anybody, because the post in question in Joe's post is not disrespectful. Frustrated, yes. But how is the simple manifestation of frustration a disrespect? Especially when it was directed towards L. If anything, this is between L and Aaron, not everyone else.

Aaron posted that in the user name thread so that mods who do name changes would be aware of the situation.

And how the hell is reverting a name change a "penalty?" Again, the entire name change agreement was to use the AKA field. If you don't use it, why would you be then given the privilege of having it changed? Wtf?

And Omega that's uncalled for. Don't start that drama up again. You damn well where he works and that he asked you specifically NOT to bring that up.

Can we PLEASE be respectful here? Christ.

 

[Sheva Alomar]

Follow the rules? More like follow common sense.

PS The AKA field bullshit has nothing to do with common sense nor should it matter so much that Aaron has to bitch about it at any convenient opportunity.

PPS I love how Mako only hangs around when it's convenient/dramatic.

 

[Alex]

I stand by my opinion that this argument is petty. Initally it wasn't; voicing a concern is never petty, but now it is, since we're still talking about it and there's a lot of hurt feelings and more problems in its wake (and the original issue is still pretty fucking unresolved).

If you don't like that opinion, simply accept that its my own subjective viewpoint and move past it, I'm definitely not trying to enforce that on anyone. And I've never even insinuated that any of you were stupid. That's just an insult and unfair. But let's move past it.

However yes, I'm pretty confident that I could, and can, solve this issue by myself in a few posts, and definitely one topic. If this issue is fixed by the time I come back, more power to us all, but is still going on, then if anything I'll be proven right.

No, no you're right this is definitely a petty argument.

But that's not the point, I just don't like the idea of Aaron treating new users like three year olds, or you announcing that you fix all this with a bit of wizardry. It's the general attitude of having to nanny everyone. The idea that new users need to have everything spoon-fed to them because people changing usernames is too much of a radical concept for them to handle or keep up with. Or that in spite of how dysfunctional this argument is, nobody is going to resolve anything if you come in and do it all for them.

This is what I meant to try and get across ><

Though it might be made a bit redundant by the dozen posts that flew in whilst I was typing this.

 

[Joker]

THAT - what Aaron posted right there - THAT is a HELPFUL response, and not one that stirs things up more. Bravo. (honestly not sarcastic)

How exactly is this even remotely relevant to this thread?

I'm sorry, I don't understand exactly how I have been rude, unfriendly or entitled to anyone. Except possibly Adri, which was in response to her own rudeness and nowhere near the extent of hers.

 

[Ⓐaron]

But that's not the point, I just don't like the idea of Aaron treating new users like three year olds, or you announcing that you fix all this with a bit of wizardry. It's the general attitude of having to nanny everyone. The idea that new users need to have everything spoon-fed to them because people changing usernames is too much of a radical concept for them to handle or keep up with. Or that in spite of how dysfunctional this argument is, nobody is going to resolve anything if you come in and do it all for them.

How exactly is it "treating new users like three year olds" to assume that they might not be able to follow all the name changes on this forum? We've had repeated complaints about people not using the aka fields. Should we just ignore them because some people think asking people to identify themselves is "babying the user base?" I don't think they feel babied.

 

[Dana Scully]

you know people are getting so upset about this dont you

because no ones updated the lesbians thread in weeks

 

[Makoeyes987]

No, no you're right this is definitely a petty argument.

But that's not the point, I just don't like the idea of Aaron treating new users like three year olds, or you announcing that you fix all this with a bit of wizardry. It's the general attitude of having to nanny everyone. The idea that new users need to have everything spoon-fed to them because people changing usernames is too much of a radical concept for them to handle or keep up with. Or that in spite of how dysfunctional this argument is, nobody is going to resolve anything if you come in and do it all for them.

Alex, we're not trying to baby anyone. The entire AKA shit spawned right when we started doing usernames at the drop of a hat and repeatedly got told by certain members (not new ones mind you, but old ones as well) that it gets extremely confusing keeping up with who's who on the forum.

Are their wishes not to be respected? We went through this with the resolution of doing the AKA Field so that this won't be a problem anymore.

If you're gonna give a finger to it and not do it that's your right as a member. But on the flip side, your name won't be changed since you can't follow the one rule of having your name changed when you want. Which is keeping the AKA Field up to date.

How is that unfair?

We're not gonna change the AKA field. Members expressed that they don't like having their profiles fucked with. Therefore it's the user's responsibility to update it.

 

[Tifabelle]

Can I ask a question?

Everybody is asking why not filling in the AKA field is such a big deal. How come filling it in is a big deal? What's the big deal to me if I leave "Tifabelle" in there all the time, or scott leaves "L" or Mog keeps "mog". It's not an unreasonable request, and it's not a difficult request to fill. Especially in exchange for the ability to have a name-change, which arguably is just as much work (if not more) as a user having to fill out the AKA field.

 

[Sheva Alomar]

you know people are getting so upset about this dont you

because no ones updated the lesbians thread in weeks

I fucking love Kat. xD

 

[Joker]

Finally got this page to update.

Mako - stay out of it.

Not even asking you to. I'm *telling* you. I'm making a point and your attempt to subvert it is not appreciated. I'm not "bringing up drama again" - this is not a discussion of that. But this is between me and Aaron, and you have a very nasty habit of doing this sort of thing - and this is an occasion where you need to quash that instinct completely.

He made a point, I made a counterpoint. Simple as.

Thank you.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

This is the first I have heard of any of this. Did you report the posts that did not receive infractions?

I don't understand why I would. All I ask is that if one staff member gives someone an infraction, do it for all the people who are violating the rules, not just one or two.

Again, all I ask is that this shit become a rule and that the penalty for violating it is listed. I think a big part of why people are so upset is that the mods appear to just be deciding punishments on their own instead of making it clear to the other staff and clear to the userbase. I understand that the mods want new members to feel like they know the other members and whatnot but not telling anyone what they need in their aka fields and moreover what the punishment for not having it properly filled out is just plain irresponsible.

EDIT: also possibly stickying the rules thread to the tops of all the subforums on this forum so people know what's expected of them

 

[Ⓐaron]

I don't understand why I would. All I ask is that if one staff member gives someone an infraction, do it for all the people who are violating the rules, not just one or two.

I agree, and if I had known there were double standards in the way the rules were being enforced I would have done something about it. I haven't even seen any new posts in the LTD thread for months, so I had no idea there was anything wrong with it. Unfortunately, I don't think any of us read every thread on the board, so it's entirely possible that oversights like this may occur. If you feel like PMing me links to the offending posts I will do what I can to alleviate your concerns.

Again, all I ask is that this shit become a rule and that the penalty for violating it is listed. I think a big part of why people are so upset is that the mods appear to just be deciding punishments on their own instead of making it clear to the other staff and clear to the userbase. I understand that the mods want new members to feel like they know the other members and whatnot but not telling anyone what they need in their aka fields and moreover what the punishment for not having it properly filled out is just plain irresponsible.

That's fine. As stated, we'll attempt to do this as best we can in the future.

EDIT: also possibly stickying the rules thread to the tops of all the subforums on this forum so people know what's expected of them

I'm not really sure there's an easy way to sticky a thread across multiple forums without hacking the vB. Perhaps I can make new threads that link to it. I'll also add a link to it to the FAQ.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Finally got this page to update.

Mako - stay out of it.

Not even asking you to. I'm *telling* you. I'm making a point and your attempt to subvert it is not appreciated. I'm not "bringing up drama again" - this is not a discussion of that. But this is between me and Aaron, and you have a very nasty habit of doing this sort of thing - and this is an occasion where you need to quash that instinct completely.

He made a point, I made a counterpoint. Simple as.

Thank you.

And I still don't get what your counterpoint is supposed to accomplish. How is months old drama at all relevant to this thread?

Furthermore, Mako has every bit as much of a right to express himself as you do here. You really don't have any grounds to tell him not to express his opinion.

 

[Max Payne]

Alex, we're not trying to baby anyone. The entire AKA shit spawned right when we started doing usernames at the drop of a hat and repeatedly got told by certain members (not new ones mind you, but old ones as well) that it gets extremely confusing keeping up with who's who on the forum.

Since when is this about you? Where is this "we"? He made a point of his post to single out Aaron.

Also, hell yes this is petty, but a grievance is a grievance and if it takes conflict to resolve it then so be it.

 

[Dana Scully]

I'm not really sure there's an easy way to sticky a thread across multiple forums without hacking the vB. Perhaps I can make new threads that link to it. I'll also add a link to it to the FAQ.

Does vB not have something similar to phpBB's Announcements, where the thread is automatically stickied at the very top of every forum/subforum?

 

[Alex]

Alex, we're not trying to baby anyone. The entire AKA shit spawned right when we started doing usernames at the drop of a hat and repeatedly got told by certain members (not new ones mind you, but old ones as well) that it gets extremely confusing keeping up with who's who on the forum.

Well it is extremely confusing. I'd be happy if there were no name changes at all. Are these the same complaints that Aaron was talking about? Because I could understand them then, when this policy was first introduced, but that was before groups of friends had formed and everyone go to know each other well enough that they are pretty identifiable to the majority of people with or without an AKA field. If new members stick around and get integrated into this place, it stands to reason that they would do a good job of keeping up with what their friends changed into regardless of an AKA field.

If you're gonna give a finger to it and not do it that's your right as a member. But on the flip side, your name won't be changed since you can't follow the one rule of having your name changed when you want. Which is keeping the AKA Field up to date.

I personally don't think its unfair. But I do think having to have a comprehensive list of every username you've had is pretty absurd. The AKA field should be there to show people your most recognisable usernames, rather than the ones you just kept for a week or ones you adopted as part of a theme.

 

[Joker]

You say you've not been rude to anyone but Adri, but I think your behavior in regards to that matter certainly falls under that heading, including but not limited to trying to have someone else make the apologies for you.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Can I ask a question?

Everybody is asking why not filling in the AKA field is such a big deal. How come filling it in is a big deal? What's the big deal to me if I leave "Tifabelle" in there all the time, or scott leaves "L" or Mog keeps "mog". It's not an unreasonable request, and it's not a difficult request to fill. Especially in exchange for the ability to have a name-change, which arguably is just as much work (if not more) as a user having to fill out the AKA field.

It takes three clicks, and some typing to make or change an AKA field.

It takes a click, a password, two further clicks, some typing, and a click to arrive at a user's page to change their name, followed by typing and another click to actually change it.

While both are trivial amount of work, changing the username does take longer. Especially since an AKA field can be set up once and ignored.