Super Mario
IT'S A ME!
- AKA
- Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
Kirk's wife/woman is hot man. And brave too.
Star Trek Into Darkness... and beyond
- Thread starter X-SOLDIER
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Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
Best movie I've seen all year, hands down. Tons of action, drama, and even the character devleopement I felt was missing from the last one.
This movie has plenty o stuff for those familiar with Star Trek, and is a hell of a lot of fun for newcomers.
You must watch this in theatres. It is the logical thing to do.
This movie has plenty o stuff for those familiar with Star Trek, and is a hell of a lot of fun for newcomers.
You must watch this in theatres. It is the logical thing to do.
Super Mario
IT'S A ME!
- AKA
- Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
This movie is worth your money. I love what they did and took the next step as I expected but only done better 
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
So... here's a surprise for everyone... I really, really didn't like this movie.
There were some good performances in parts, and some cool sequences, but good LORD the plot is a gigantic pile of shit that might as well be called, "Kirk never manages to refute a single negative thing that Pike calls him out on during the beginning of the film. Ever. And there are absolutely zero consequences for it."
Full rant is on tumblr. (Spoilers in the link).
X
There were some good performances in parts, and some cool sequences, but good LORD the plot is a gigantic pile of shit that might as well be called, "Kirk never manages to refute a single negative thing that Pike calls him out on during the beginning of the film. Ever. And there are absolutely zero consequences for it."
Full rant is on tumblr. (Spoilers in the link).
X
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I'm glad to hear that someone doesn't like this. I plan to see it, but I wasn't in love with the first one like everyone else seems to have been to begin with.
I loved it up until the ice planet. About the time Kirk got ditched there is when I went from loving it to finding it pretty okay.
I loved it up until the ice planet. About the time Kirk got ditched there is when I went from loving it to finding it pretty okay.
Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
So... here's a surprise for everyone... I really, really didn't like this movie.
There were some good performances in parts, and some cool sequences, but good LORD the plot is a gigantic pile of shit that might as well be called, "Kirk never manages to refute a single negative thing that Pike calls him out on during the beginning of the film. Ever. And there are absolutely zero consequences for it."
Full rant is on tumblr. (Spoilers in the link).
X
You know there was this lovely scene where Kirk is speaking to Spock and admits that somebody who knows what he's doing needs to be in the captains chair, and thats Spock and not him. He also straight up admits in that same scene that Spock was right for accusing him of not being capable of using wisdom at that point.
Then theres examples as the movie progresses where he listens to his crew and accepts their conclusion, such as his decision to take Harrison alive rather than murder him with a torpedoe.
Or when he chose to allow Carol to talk to the Admiral rather than continue to fight/run.
Or how about the time when he accepted full responsibility for his actions while talking to Admiral Marcus in order to save his crew?
In other words, Kirk develops as a character in this movie quite nicely.
Not sure why you think the plot could be shitty either. I thought it was quite a bit better and made a lot more sense than the last movie, and felt more like Star Trek.
Then theres examples as the movie progresses where he listens to his crew and accepts their conclusion, such as his decision to take Harrison alive rather than murder him with a torpedoe.
Or when he chose to allow Carol to talk to the Admiral rather than continue to fight/run.
Or how about the time when he accepted full responsibility for his actions while talking to Admiral Marcus in order to save his crew?
In other words, Kirk develops as a character in this movie quite nicely.
Not sure why you think the plot could be shitty either. I thought it was quite a bit better and made a lot more sense than the last movie, and felt more like Star Trek.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Sorry in advance for the huge rant. I'm actually really annoyed about NOT liking this movie, because I wanted to. I really REALLY wanted to, and it's very seldom that I DON'T actually like a movie, so it's bothering me a lot more than usual.
X
I agree with his assessment, here 100%. That being said, I don't think that from the time that he makes that statement to any point later in the film that Kirk actually becomes the person who should take Spock's place there as captain.
There is so much on again off again with Kirk listening to, and then not listening to the advice of people around him. The issue is that when it comes to... any sort of important decision, everything that Kirk does in the film is only making up for a FRACTION of what he's personally responsible for fucking up in the first place. The other part that bothers me is it's still ALWAYS Kirk getting by on dumb luck and his friends compensation for his lack of solid judgement. That's NOT the sort of person I'd ever follow under command of a starship.
Which he did after exhausting his other options - delaying, and then making a run for it, so he's basically being forced into it. Again, it's is still a part of the trend where Kirk isn't so much someone with good judgement, as someone who's just got people compensating for his bravado and lack of planning, and just gets lucky in all the right ways (i.e. having Scotty aboard the enemy ship because Khan gave him a coordinate that he happened to give to someone who he fired from his post for attempting to avert the EXACT scenario that he's now stuck in).
I hardly see that plea as being anything more than Kirk finally put into a situation where he's out of options, and ALL of his friends were going to die, so he was willing to take the bigger personal risk to save them - one that also left his ego intact in front of everyone.
Maybe he gets over his own fratboy ego a tiny bit, but he's still nowhere NEAR the level of someone who I could actually see anyone entrusting with the command of the flagship of the entire Federation. It seems like he's just constantly failing upwards the entire film, but at the end of the day his stupid luck, lack of planning and friends making up for it is what pulls him out of it, and THAT is what allows him to succeed. That's the exact same thing that's been getting him by the entire film. Kirk's blind bravado and incompetence doesn't improve AT ALL, he only learns to give over people a chance to step in, because he doesn't know what in the flying fuck he's doing 90% of the time, which is why he ought to be back at Starfleet academy, like he almost was.
Then there're things that he's "punished with" that never actually happen, like when he loses command of the Enterprise, gets sent back to Starfleet academy, becomes the Commander of the Enterprise under Pike, and suddenly becomes the Captain again when Pike dies and NEVER ACTUALLY EXPERIENCES NOT BEING THE CAPTAIN. Dumb luck means that he literally avoided EVERY SINGLE reprimand and punishment for violating the PRIME DIRECTIVE, (not to mention a laundry list of other protocols), but then after dying and being brought back to undo a warp core malfunction - that he caused by blatantly ignoring the warnings of his GENIUS head of engineering, he is then entrusted to be the head of a cutting edge 5 year science mission to explore other worlds?
BULLSHIT.
TBQH, I honestly remember next to nothing about the specifics of the first film.
The set pieces and action were grand, and most of the acting was great, but it's like there are a lot of great individual pieces, and they just don't tie together well. The whole specifics of the plan between Khan & Marcus and each party playing the other relies on this weird series of Kirk fucking things up in ways that no one wanted/planned for, but apparently everyone actually relied on.
Seriously.
• If Khan went to Kronos as an idea that it would be a safe haven, that makes no sense because Admiral Marcus wanted to start a war and would have gone there anyway.
• If he did it because he thought that Admiral Marcus would equip a starship with the long-range photon torpedoes (that contained the people he was attempting to free), he would have known that they would have bombarded the (seemingly) abandoned area of the planet with them from just outside the Neutral Zone.
• If he was planning on a boarding party, then the ship that was sent after him would never would have had access to the torpedos, and he'd have had a better chance just letting himself get arrested outside Starfleet.
• This ALSO all plays out to them even being able to discover where he'd teleported himself to in the first place (which Scotty did, because he developed the technology).
There isn't ANY CLEAR LOGICAL SCENARIO that I've been able to work out that would cause him running off to Kronos to ACTUALLY advance his plan that doesn't rely on Kirk suddenly coming up with some spur of the moment idea (that literally NO ONE IS COUNTING ON) to hail Khan and tell him that they have the torpedos, and then send down a boarding party that he can use to join them back on the Enterprise after he knows that they have them.
The biggest issue is that this interaction taking place here in that specific way is literally the linchpin of EVERY OTHER PARTY IN THE FILM MEETING UP IN THE WAY THAT HE DESCRIBES from then on. He expertly details every single thing that is happening with Marcus and Kirk in exquisite detail, so he IS a tactician and a damn well detailed one. That's exceptionally bothersome that the KEY MOMENT in his scenario in achieving his objective makes NO DAMN SENSE. (Not to mention - how the hell does Admiral Marcus manage to mysteriously leave Starfleet and board a GIGANTIC secret ship on Jupiter during such an ENORMOUS CRISIS & where the hell is anyone else in Starfleet when they're fighting in near Earth orbit?)
I DID like parts of it. I'd watch Uhura confronting Klingons or Sulu commanding the Enterprise non-stop. I'd watch Simon Pegg play Scotty for 5 hours straight with no breaks. Hell, I'd even watch Benedict Cumberbatch beat up Klingons and other aliens and be a genetically engineered badass just because. I just don't buy anything about Kirk being who he is in Starfleet for a second, and those other key moments that tie everything together don't make a damn bit of sense to have been orchestrated by the masterminds who set them in motion.
There is so much on again off again with Kirk listening to, and then not listening to the advice of people around him. The issue is that when it comes to... any sort of important decision, everything that Kirk does in the film is only making up for a FRACTION of what he's personally responsible for fucking up in the first place. The other part that bothers me is it's still ALWAYS Kirk getting by on dumb luck and his friends compensation for his lack of solid judgement. That's NOT the sort of person I'd ever follow under command of a starship.
Which he did after exhausting his other options - delaying, and then making a run for it, so he's basically being forced into it. Again, it's is still a part of the trend where Kirk isn't so much someone with good judgement, as someone who's just got people compensating for his bravado and lack of planning, and just gets lucky in all the right ways (i.e. having Scotty aboard the enemy ship because Khan gave him a coordinate that he happened to give to someone who he fired from his post for attempting to avert the EXACT scenario that he's now stuck in).
I hardly see that plea as being anything more than Kirk finally put into a situation where he's out of options, and ALL of his friends were going to die, so he was willing to take the bigger personal risk to save them - one that also left his ego intact in front of everyone.
Maybe he gets over his own fratboy ego a tiny bit, but he's still nowhere NEAR the level of someone who I could actually see anyone entrusting with the command of the flagship of the entire Federation. It seems like he's just constantly failing upwards the entire film, but at the end of the day his stupid luck, lack of planning and friends making up for it is what pulls him out of it, and THAT is what allows him to succeed. That's the exact same thing that's been getting him by the entire film. Kirk's blind bravado and incompetence doesn't improve AT ALL, he only learns to give over people a chance to step in, because he doesn't know what in the flying fuck he's doing 90% of the time, which is why he ought to be back at Starfleet academy, like he almost was.
Then there're things that he's "punished with" that never actually happen, like when he loses command of the Enterprise, gets sent back to Starfleet academy, becomes the Commander of the Enterprise under Pike, and suddenly becomes the Captain again when Pike dies and NEVER ACTUALLY EXPERIENCES NOT BEING THE CAPTAIN. Dumb luck means that he literally avoided EVERY SINGLE reprimand and punishment for violating the PRIME DIRECTIVE, (not to mention a laundry list of other protocols), but then after dying and being brought back to undo a warp core malfunction - that he caused by blatantly ignoring the warnings of his GENIUS head of engineering, he is then entrusted to be the head of a cutting edge 5 year science mission to explore other worlds?
BULLSHIT.
TBQH, I honestly remember next to nothing about the specifics of the first film.
The set pieces and action were grand, and most of the acting was great, but it's like there are a lot of great individual pieces, and they just don't tie together well. The whole specifics of the plan between Khan & Marcus and each party playing the other relies on this weird series of Kirk fucking things up in ways that no one wanted/planned for, but apparently everyone actually relied on.
Seriously.
• If Khan went to Kronos as an idea that it would be a safe haven, that makes no sense because Admiral Marcus wanted to start a war and would have gone there anyway.
• If he did it because he thought that Admiral Marcus would equip a starship with the long-range photon torpedoes (that contained the people he was attempting to free), he would have known that they would have bombarded the (seemingly) abandoned area of the planet with them from just outside the Neutral Zone.
• If he was planning on a boarding party, then the ship that was sent after him would never would have had access to the torpedos, and he'd have had a better chance just letting himself get arrested outside Starfleet.
• This ALSO all plays out to them even being able to discover where he'd teleported himself to in the first place (which Scotty did, because he developed the technology).
There isn't ANY CLEAR LOGICAL SCENARIO that I've been able to work out that would cause him running off to Kronos to ACTUALLY advance his plan that doesn't rely on Kirk suddenly coming up with some spur of the moment idea (that literally NO ONE IS COUNTING ON) to hail Khan and tell him that they have the torpedos, and then send down a boarding party that he can use to join them back on the Enterprise after he knows that they have them.
The biggest issue is that this interaction taking place here in that specific way is literally the linchpin of EVERY OTHER PARTY IN THE FILM MEETING UP IN THE WAY THAT HE DESCRIBES from then on. He expertly details every single thing that is happening with Marcus and Kirk in exquisite detail, so he IS a tactician and a damn well detailed one. That's exceptionally bothersome that the KEY MOMENT in his scenario in achieving his objective makes NO DAMN SENSE. (Not to mention - how the hell does Admiral Marcus manage to mysteriously leave Starfleet and board a GIGANTIC secret ship on Jupiter during such an ENORMOUS CRISIS & where the hell is anyone else in Starfleet when they're fighting in near Earth orbit?)
I DID like parts of it. I'd watch Uhura confronting Klingons or Sulu commanding the Enterprise non-stop. I'd watch Simon Pegg play Scotty for 5 hours straight with no breaks. Hell, I'd even watch Benedict Cumberbatch beat up Klingons and other aliens and be a genetically engineered badass just because. I just don't buy anything about Kirk being who he is in Starfleet for a second, and those other key moments that tie everything together don't make a damn bit of sense to have been orchestrated by the masterminds who set them in motion.
X
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Strong start, weak finish, about what I expected, technically better than the first, because it didn't flop around pointlessly in the middle of the film for no reason.
An action film at heart. Go in expecting that.
An action film at heart. Go in expecting that.
Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
I'll go in expecting Chris Pine to be hot, thank you very much.
Actually if anyone is hot in this movie its Spock.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
A list that may better describe my likes and dislike about the film: http://xsoldier.tumblr.com/post/50713888400/things-i-quite-enjoyed-about-star-trek-into
X
X
Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
Well, wait until you see him in the first part of the movie. Nobody will ever be able to deny his hotness after seeing it.
@X-SOLDIER:
I do kind of agree about Khan going to Kronos. I mean, I loved seeing the Klingons and whatnot. That whole sequence was incredibly entertaining. But the whole thing seems odd. It makes sense for Khan to go there. He's trying to get away from Marcus and figures he can't be followed there.
But Marcus' plan seemed to hinge on it, which seems strange.
I will respect your opinion regarding Kirk in this movie. No denying that he makes mistakes, and that was clearly intentional. I felt it was a deliberate, and also very natural extension of his being promoted so early in the last movie.
In a way it feeds into his character. He's got a shit load of potential, but was put into command to early because of an incredible feat he pulled off (and possibly starfleet being desperate to replace the captains who were lost at Vulcan).
He's got the courage and intelligence to be a good leader, but not the experience and self-control, which bites him in this movie. I wouldn't have found it all that believable if it were done differently.
I do feel that he was showing clear signs of improving by the end of the movie, and I think that these events have probably taught him the lessons in humility that will help him to become the legend he is supposed to be.
That said, I'm curious about what you thought of the Kirk and Spock scene. You know the one.
But Marcus' plan seemed to hinge on it, which seems strange.
I will respect your opinion regarding Kirk in this movie. No denying that he makes mistakes, and that was clearly intentional. I felt it was a deliberate, and also very natural extension of his being promoted so early in the last movie.
In a way it feeds into his character. He's got a shit load of potential, but was put into command to early because of an incredible feat he pulled off (and possibly starfleet being desperate to replace the captains who were lost at Vulcan).
He's got the courage and intelligence to be a good leader, but not the experience and self-control, which bites him in this movie. I wouldn't have found it all that believable if it were done differently.
I do feel that he was showing clear signs of improving by the end of the movie, and I think that these events have probably taught him the lessons in humility that will help him to become the legend he is supposed to be.
That said, I'm curious about what you thought of the Kirk and Spock scene. You know the one.
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X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
@Noctis:
X
Well stated. And I actually really enjoyed that scene. QUITE a bit. It made up for Kirk fixing the warp core by kicking it the wrong way to actually fix it. (Which was driving me totally nuts). That scene is actually why I wanted the film to end the way that I mentioned in my tumblr post, because it held SO much more meaning that way.
The deus ex tribble-resurrection, REALLY killed all the impact that that scene delivered for me. It was the biggest pulled punch and it made everything in that moment feel exponentially cheaper. Rather than being a moment of self-sacrifice, it suddenly transformed that scene into yet another example of, Kirk's limitless luck saves him from suffering any of the consequences of his actions, and that really just sent my patience with how his character was being handled over the edge.
The scene itself was damn fantastically done though. Props to both of them. Additionally, he did a fantastic job acting as Kirk throughout the film, which I hadn't mentioned, but everything ABOUT his character just made me want to rip my own face off.
The deus ex tribble-resurrection, REALLY killed all the impact that that scene delivered for me. It was the biggest pulled punch and it made everything in that moment feel exponentially cheaper. Rather than being a moment of self-sacrifice, it suddenly transformed that scene into yet another example of, Kirk's limitless luck saves him from suffering any of the consequences of his actions, and that really just sent my patience with how his character was being handled over the edge.
The scene itself was damn fantastically done though. Props to both of them. Additionally, he did a fantastic job acting as Kirk throughout the film, which I hadn't mentioned, but everything ABOUT his character just made me want to rip my own face off.
X
Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
@ X-SOLDIER:
Yeah, I can agree with that. I did appreciate that they at least took the time to set up the tribble and Khans blood earlier on, so it didn't come completely out of nowhere. But it does still take some of the impact of what was otherwise a very good example of self sacrifice.
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
Bringing Khan back would've sent potentially problematic messages regardless of whom they'd gotten to play the role. If you get a white dude to play it, then it's whitewashing. If you get a person of colour to play the role, you have to deal with there being another brown terrorist stereotype in Western media regardless of the fact that the character has existed for forty-six years. It didn't have unfortunate implications as much in the sixties when the character was first created or even in the eighties when the second film was made, but there is certainly a lot of baggage with the trope these days. Personally, I'm kind of glad they averted the brown terrorist stereotype this time around, since "othering" the villain would've somewhat undercut the film's message about not letting fear of war or terrorism lead us to commit atrocities.
Anyway, I thought it was a good film and I liked it. It wasn't perfect, and probably not as good as the first Abrams film, but it's a hell of a lot better than I expected given its mixed reception on the internets.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Well, it was no Wrath of Khan, but it was good. Just saw it.
@X:
@X:
It was the torpedoes messing with the warp core? I thought Scotty just wasn't comfortable allowing weapons on board that they weren't allowed to know the contents of. Was it actually because it was interfering with the Warp Core? I kinda thought they were sabotaged, but like I said I just saw it, I might've missed it.
And as for him going to Kronos, yeah I actually thought, when I learned of the crew in the torpedoes, I just thought Marcus was trying to get Kirk to SEND Khan his crew, rather than kill them. Obviously that didn't turn out to be the case.
And Spock fighting Khan...I dunno, he was beating Klingon warriors with a freaking gatling phaser and another gun. He wasn't overpowering them. Khan is a super-strong human, Vulcans are stronger than humans, so I could see the fight being more even than with Kirk. Not to say that the fight didn't get ridiculous with the skycar jumping, but, yeah.
And unfortunate implications or no, someone named Khan Noonien Singh being whiter than white's a little silly. It's not like Ricardo Montalban was Indian or even particularly "brown," but he had an exoticism about him. But yeah, yeah, messages or whatever. The other Khan was much more developed with a more personal and relatable (as we saw it happen) reason for revenge, so maybe that's the problem.
Also, these new movies have yet to show the Enterprise as being particularly impressive. It keeps being grossly outclassed.
And as for him going to Kronos, yeah I actually thought, when I learned of the crew in the torpedoes, I just thought Marcus was trying to get Kirk to SEND Khan his crew, rather than kill them. Obviously that didn't turn out to be the case.
And Spock fighting Khan...I dunno, he was beating Klingon warriors with a freaking gatling phaser and another gun. He wasn't overpowering them. Khan is a super-strong human, Vulcans are stronger than humans, so I could see the fight being more even than with Kirk. Not to say that the fight didn't get ridiculous with the skycar jumping, but, yeah.
And unfortunate implications or no, someone named Khan Noonien Singh being whiter than white's a little silly. It's not like Ricardo Montalban was Indian or even particularly "brown," but he had an exoticism about him. But yeah, yeah, messages or whatever. The other Khan was much more developed with a more personal and relatable (as we saw it happen) reason for revenge, so maybe that's the problem.
Also, these new movies have yet to show the Enterprise as being particularly impressive. It keeps being grossly outclassed.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I know, Freddie Mercury, for instance 
Interslicery
.....
It was fun to watch. About what I was expecting. I doubt I'll seek it out to watch again but if its on, I probly wouldn't turn it off.
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
^This was my reaction. I enjoyed it, but I don't know if I'll go out of my way to see it again. The first one was definitely better.
I felt like the beginning was unnecessary, or at least, didn't achieve what it was trying to do in a very believable manner.
However,
I felt like the beginning was unnecessary, or at least, didn't achieve what it was trying to do in a very believable manner.
I get that they were trying to have Kirk learn a lesson in this movie, but I wasn't sure if I felt like he had that much to lose to get there. Pike making him first officer seemed like it was too easy.
However,
Wrath of Kahn flip-flop was kind of funny. I had a feeling that this was where the movie was going. And everyone in the theater burst out laughing when Spock screamed, "KHAN!!!" haha
Abortedj
The Crawling Chaos
- AKA
- Abortedj, The Offender, Abortedjesus, Testicules,
Just saw this movie. I liked it. I found it to be enjoyable, but there are several things that bother me, but all involve spoilers, and I am to lazy to use the tags.
One thought, the original Uhura was way hotter back in her day. The new one is however a much better actress. Trade offs that need to be made I guess.
One thought, the original Uhura was way hotter back in her day. The new one is however a much better actress. Trade offs that need to be made I guess.