The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Star Wars: Episode 7, 8... and BEYOND!
- Thread starter Charles Xavier
- Start date
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Somewhat of a good point (even if that would sound a tad like a contradiction if Luke is the family Maz meant), but if Maz does know whose kid she is, and it is Luke, this point becomes a bit like the "Why didn't Leia sense her daughter?"-"Well, why didn't she sense her niece?" question.
Han would still be Rey's family, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to not mention that either.
I don't know, I've only seen it once so far, so I'm sure there are clues I've missed and will hopefully pick up on upon another viewing. My impression right now is that you could make an equally compelling case either way and still have problematic loose ends to address (often the same loose ends, actually).
I think I'd personally prefer she by Kylo's sister, but that's my affection for the old Expanded Universe talking. And pretty irrelevant.
Han would still be Rey's family, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to not mention that either.
I don't know, I've only seen it once so far, so I'm sure there are clues I've missed and will hopefully pick up on upon another viewing. My impression right now is that you could make an equally compelling case either way and still have problematic loose ends to address (often the same loose ends, actually).
I think I'd personally prefer she by Kylo's sister, but that's my affection for the old Expanded Universe talking. And pretty irrelevant.
Super Mario
IT'S A ME!
- AKA
- Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
I still think she's a spawn of
Obi-Wan Kenobi. A Grandchild/great grand child, not daughter. I think he went on other adventures after giving Baby Luke to the Lars or fell in love late game but didn't reveal stuff yet.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I'm still not particularly convinced that she's related to anyone (of the main characters). And I think I'd actually prefer it that way anyway.
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
@Rey being related to people:
Also:
I heard a theory that maybe she's a Kenobi. Not descended from Obi-Wan, but maybe Obi-Wan had siblings.
A friend of mine last night said she thinks she's Luke's daughter but that her mother was probably related to Obi-Wan. However, this friend's brother is convinced that she's actually Leia and Han's daughter despite this making zero sense. But then, he's also convinced that Fin is Lando Calrissian's son and won't hear any opinions to the contrary on that.
I personally would prefer Rey not be related to anyone as well but I don't get the impression this is the case.
A friend of mine last night said she thinks she's Luke's daughter but that her mother was probably related to Obi-Wan. However, this friend's brother is convinced that she's actually Leia and Han's daughter despite this making zero sense. But then, he's also convinced that Fin is Lando Calrissian's son and won't hear any opinions to the contrary on that.
I personally would prefer Rey not be related to anyone as well but I don't get the impression this is the case.
Also:
Last edited:
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Especially if
Snoke really is Darth Plagueis. Rey would almost certainly have to be a Skywalker then.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Why? As Tets pointed out, Ren is of Skywalker lineage and therefore I think technically fulfills that requirement. Especially since he seems much more ripe for a redemption arc then the series' other villains.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
So, let's start with everyone's ages:
Rey: 19
Finn: 23
Kylo Ren: 29
Poe Dameron: 32
My tl;dr post about her parentage gets into more detail about why Han & Leia are a "no way" and Obi-Wan is "highly unlikely" and she's almost certainly Luke's kid if you wanna look it over. Their ages go even further to support that things were going south with Ben Solo at the academy, and Snoke was looking suspicious, and so Ren's mother/Luke's significant other bailed out of the picture before she was born.
@Force: Because the main plot thread for the Force users is the Balance of the Force (i.e. Anakin Skywalker's legacy), as it's the first thing spoken about in the film.
Rey: 19
Finn: 23
Kylo Ren: 29
Poe Dameron: 32
My tl;dr post about her parentage gets into more detail about why Han & Leia are a "no way" and Obi-Wan is "highly unlikely" and she's almost certainly Luke's kid if you wanna look it over. Their ages go even further to support that things were going south with Ben Solo at the academy, and Snoke was looking suspicious, and so Ren's mother/Luke's significant other bailed out of the picture before she was born.
@Force: Because the main plot thread for the Force users is the Balance of the Force (i.e. Anakin Skywalker's legacy), as it's the first thing spoken about in the film.
X
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Just back.
Short version: Not bad, not mindblowing, they did a couple of things that weren't to my taste. Decent job of gender/ethnicity representation.
But, unfortunately, I'm going to be that guy and nitpick some:
Edit: You know what? I didn't want to hate on it, but after reading the thread, I have some more things to say.
It wasn't terrible, but had lots of stuff I didn't like.
Short version: Not bad, not mindblowing, they did a couple of things that weren't to my taste. Decent job of gender/ethnicity representation.
But, unfortunately, I'm going to be that guy and nitpick some:
Too big. I'm assuming the First Order is some kind of shard of the Galactic Empire, making them vastly more powerful than the entire empire isn't a direction I like.
Who are the First Order? Where did they come from? We don't get told.
Destroying all those Planets was so unnecessary. Back in the day, the Destruction of Alderaan mattered, it proved the Death Star really could destroy Planets, and the characters were stunned that this was possible, it drove home how important getting the plans to the Rebels was. Here, it was just background. There was no reason to do it, in or out of universe.
"Self Aware Stormtrooper" was a brilliant idea that was completely punctured when he starts gleefully killing his former comrades not much later.
In the rest of the canon, force sensitivity adds to training, it doesn't replace it. Ray/Rei lives alone and travels on a sledge and a tractor, she can't afford food, when did she get flight training? Luke used to 'bullseye womprats back home', Anakin was in the pod races, she seems to have just picked it up cold. And was able to lightsabre duel an apprentice Jedi the first time she picked it up.
Destroying all those Planets was so unnecessary. Back in the day, the Destruction of Alderaan mattered, it proved the Death Star really could destroy Planets, and the characters were stunned that this was possible, it drove home how important getting the plans to the Rebels was. Here, it was just background. There was no reason to do it, in or out of universe.
"Self Aware Stormtrooper" was a brilliant idea that was completely punctured when he starts gleefully killing his former comrades not much later.
In the rest of the canon, force sensitivity adds to training, it doesn't replace it. Ray/Rei lives alone and travels on a sledge and a tractor, she can't afford food, when did she get flight training? Luke used to 'bullseye womprats back home', Anakin was in the pod races, she seems to have just picked it up cold. And was able to lightsabre duel an apprentice Jedi the first time she picked it up.
It wasn't terrible, but had lots of stuff I didn't like.
Last edited:
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I'm not sure I trust these. Kylo definitely wasn't 10 in that vision to the Jedi temple burning (and we know from the screenplay details that it's him there, as well as that the massacre is what was being depicted there).
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
It's explained in the opening crawl that it arose from the ashes of the Empire as soon as Luke went AWOL. The technology of the Starkiller Station is more destructive, but they're not anywhere near as powerful as the Empire, because they don't control a large section of the Galaxy, or have as much of a vast military presence. They're not noticeably at all as powerful as the Galactic Empire was, they just possessed a bigger gun.
If you dig into the additional details, the New Republic didn't even really think of them as a significant threat, which is why Leia and the Resistance didn't get along with them so well.
If you dig into the additional details, the New Republic didn't even really think of them as a significant threat, which is why Leia and the Resistance didn't get along with them so well.
Again - explained in the opening crawl, but not deeply elaborated upon.
The reason for wiping out the Hosnian system was that it destroyed the entire fleet of the New Republic in addition to their temporary center of government. When they're attempting to use it against the Resistance base later in the film (i.e. the shot that was never fired), it's because Snoke is hell bent on eradicating the map to Luke to prevent the Jedi from potentially coming back.
Insofar as Finn killing other stormtroopers: A bunch of people around him just mercilessly gunned down a whole village of people without hesitation, and he is 100% not ok with that. I don't see any reason why he'd hesitate to shoot them down and kill them to escape. It's not like he's against killing or shooting people -- he's against what the First Order is doing specifically and if suddenly you realized that you're surrounded by the new generation of space Nazis, there's no reason to hesitate taking them out, because they're going to kill you if they find you.
Rey is a good pilot, but not by any means unbelievable -- especially not when compared with a 9-year-old-Anakin or A New Hope Luke. She IS a brilliant mechanic because she scraps to make her way through life, and she's a tough fighter because she lives a harsh life where he needs to be able to defend herself. Insofar as her fight with Kylo Ren: please refer to this imgur post that more adequately summarizes what I've said before.
The reason for wiping out the Hosnian system was that it destroyed the entire fleet of the New Republic in addition to their temporary center of government. When they're attempting to use it against the Resistance base later in the film (i.e. the shot that was never fired), it's because Snoke is hell bent on eradicating the map to Luke to prevent the Jedi from potentially coming back.
Insofar as Finn killing other stormtroopers: A bunch of people around him just mercilessly gunned down a whole village of people without hesitation, and he is 100% not ok with that. I don't see any reason why he'd hesitate to shoot them down and kill them to escape. It's not like he's against killing or shooting people -- he's against what the First Order is doing specifically and if suddenly you realized that you're surrounded by the new generation of space Nazis, there's no reason to hesitate taking them out, because they're going to kill you if they find you.
Rey is a good pilot, but not by any means unbelievable -- especially not when compared with a 9-year-old-Anakin or A New Hope Luke. She IS a brilliant mechanic because she scraps to make her way through life, and she's a tough fighter because she lives a harsh life where he needs to be able to defend herself. Insofar as her fight with Kylo Ren: please refer to this imgur post that more adequately summarizes what I've said before.
Admittedly that is a part I'm a little sketchy about, since I'm not 100% sure when all that happens, but the rough ages and such are still a good point to look at for Ben & Rey's age disparity.
X
Shadowfox
You look like you need a monkey
About her piloting skills, one of the new books ("Rey's Survival Guide") mentioned that in the course of Rey's scavenging, she had found some computer cores and flight sims which she used to teach herself how to fly.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Shame we didn't see that in the movie. Maybe she turns on the sim before she goes to bed that time, or something.
How do they have the pull to built a superweapon that is ten times more powerful than all the empire's resources could, then, in secret? And how can they possibly continue the fight after losing said superweapon and most of the staff inside it? (Maybe the next movie will have them a tattered remnant of their former selves on the run, but I doubt it.)
The story would have worked so much better if it was just a big base.
Well, he seems to care about that first guy that died. I'm not saying that he can't kill other stormtroopers, but he shouldn't exactly be cheering about it, if he broke the conditioning, how does he know that others aren't fighting from the inside too?
Brilliant mechanic: perfectly fine. Not the same thing as brilliant pilot.
Luke had flight experience already on Tattoine, as well as shooting small targets at high speeds 'I could bullseye womprats back home'. He was along for the ride against the death star because they needed every pilot they had, and didn't do anything that spectacular in the dogfight before the final shot, which he only got because he was the last man standing, he wasn't the rebel's first choice to take it. And Vader had him right in his crosshairs before Han showed up out of the blue. That was a good example of force sensitivity boosting training, not replacing it.
Anakin in Phantom Menace- my memories are hazy, but wasn't that sort of an accident? He accidentally turned it on, and the autopilot took him with the rest of the fleet, or something? And yes, that was pretty stupid.
Sure, Rey is a good melee fighter, but picking up a lightsabre for the very first time and being able to put up a fight against someone trained by Luke is a bit hard to buy. He is hurt, but if they were going for 'they can put up a fight because he's hurt', that was the wrong way to frame it.
If that was what they were going for, it should have been a chase, rather than him somehow getting ahead of them, with Ren staggering along, pulling himself forward with trees, with the others doing their best to stay out of range, engaging only when they have to. Instead, they both choose to engage him.
If he's so badly hurt (and punching his wound so as not to pass out was a nice touch), Ren should be pressing his advantage as much as he can, he needs to end things quickly before he collapses. He should have punished Rey for closing her eyes for ten seconds in the middle of a swordfight.
How about this instead: Rey gets disarmed and held at swordpoint. She does the same 'drawing power from the force' thing, which Ren allows as it looks like a normal 'oh shit I'm going to die' reaction. Then she shoves him away with the force to a good distance away, and then the chasm opens up, and Ren is in no condition to jump it, so Rey goes to check on Finn. That would be more in line with 'raw power, not well trained (yet)' for Rey, without making her impossibly skilled. Neither Anakin nor Luke were able to engage in lightsabre fights in the end of the first movie they appeared in with them, the very first time they picked one up.
Edit: Sorry, I shouldn't be that guy, I liked Kylo Ren personality-wise, I just think he
should have been more capable versus two people that have never used a lightsabre in combat before (well, Finn has, but lost hard instantly.)
Last edited:
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I have no problems accepting
that Kylo lost -- between the wound he got from Chewie, the one or two small hits Finn (who has combat training) got in, still being shocked/horrified at his own actions, and Rey opening up to letting The Force guide her, plausibility is not an issue.
That said, I can understand why you wouldn't love it regardless since it makes Ren seem less intimidating to watch him be defeated in the first movie when there are still two to go. All I can say is they must be going for something different here than what was done with Vader.
Though, for that matter, even Vader lucked out at the end of "A New Hope." Had Han and Chewie landed a more direct hit then, Vader would have been space dust. Or -- had Luke not been reduced to the last man standing -- his TIE Advanced would have been a sitting duck for another pilot.
Granted, losing there left a different impression than losing a lightsaber duel.
That said, I can understand why you wouldn't love it regardless since it makes Ren seem less intimidating to watch him be defeated in the first movie when there are still two to go. All I can say is they must be going for something different here than what was done with Vader.
Though, for that matter, even Vader lucked out at the end of "A New Hope." Had Han and Chewie landed a more direct hit then, Vader would have been space dust. Or -- had Luke not been reduced to the last man standing -- his TIE Advanced would have been a sitting duck for another pilot.
Granted, losing there left a different impression than losing a lightsaber duel.
Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
That is an important detail when looking at Kylo's defeat. Not only is he badly wounded, not only is he still likely emotionally wrecked from killing his own father, but he's not even fully trained. Between all that I'd say his defeat is well within the realm of possibility. Certainly it makes way more sense than Maul just standing around and letting Obi-Wan cut him in off back TPM.
Octo
KULT OF KERMITU
- AKA
- Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
So, I had what I assume is a fairly large spoiler - if not THE spoiler - done to me over Christmas. Thanks cousin.
Anyway, I mean I'm not a huge SW fan, I sort of prefer the visuals and settings to the actual plot, but still...y'know.. RUDE!
That aside I'm guessing this is something I will have to see on the big screen right? Like it won't be the same on a tv yeah? Just cos I'll have to make a special trip to the cinema and stuff.
Anyway, I mean I'm not a huge SW fan, I sort of prefer the visuals and settings to the actual plot, but still...y'know.. RUDE!
That aside I'm guessing this is something I will have to see on the big screen right? Like it won't be the same on a tv yeah? Just cos I'll have to make a special trip to the cinema and stuff.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Based entirely on the way Snoke looks, I was expecting that to mean that he intends to take Ren's body. That is a total guess though, obviously.