Russell
.. ? ..
- AKA
- King of the Potato People
It's probably already been mentioned but did anyone else know that...
Star Wars: Episode 7, 8... and BEYOND!
- Thread starter Charles Xavier
- Start date
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
I'm not sure why I'm still doing this, I'll probably stop after this post.
Luke actually isn't all that special in the Death Star dogfight, he nearly crashes early on, he shoots a TIE that's focused on someone else, and then gets in trouble before Wedge takes a TIE off his tail. Then there are other fighters shielding him all the way down the trench, and when they're dealt with he's right in their crosshairs until Han comes out of left field.
The only really impressive thing he does is make the shot, which the force is useful for, but he still needs a tonne of help to get that far. Then there's a timeskip, where he was presumably practicing.
The Force, and the ghost of his mentor, help with the shot, but he knows how the fighter works, that's not his first time in flight.
Anakin pushes things, but we have a reason he's allowed to podrace-Watto likes to gamble, and the guy who's physically incapable without force powers is a good way to buck the odds. Doesn't the autopilot somehow get him inside the main ship by accident? It's freakishly lucky, but it's not all on him.
Older Anakin has years of training by some of the wisest and most skilled people in the galaxy by episode 2, Rey doesn't seem to.
Rey ends up in situations where she has no help, dogfighting alone against two TIE fighters in tight quarters in a ship she has never flown before (she seems to be on bad terms with the junkyard owner, it seems doubtful he'd let her take a valuable possession for a spin. She lives in an AT-AT, and can't afford food, we see no friends or connections that could get her into a cockpit, and there was nothing about flight sims in the movie. Where she gets into a prolonged dogfight completely alone, against fighters with no other targets. Finn is limited help a\s his gun gets stuck.
Engineering: I have no issue with. Force Powers also fine.
Combat: She fights, yes, but not with a lightsabre. Those are supposed to be very difficult to use, and this is literally her first time to use it in combat, there's no timeskip where there could have been practice or training, since she's repelled by it initially and has no Jedi mentor time. But she holds her own against someone that uses it as their primary weapon.
I haven't seen it three times, but it makes no sense for him to be toying with Finn. You only do that when time is on your side, not only is he very badly hurt, but the Planet is about to explode. There doesn't seem to be any big grudge against Finn either, they don't have much contact, I don't remember the dialogue before the fight, was there much focus on Finn. He holds it together about Finn's escape earlier until he hears that 'a girl' helped him, so he must know something about Rey that we don't, but I didn't see any huge personal transgression against him. He has no reason to play around. You probably remember it better, I could be wrong. You were right about Vader's monologue.
It didn't ruin the movie for me or anything, but there is some basis for the idea that she's a bit overpowered.
Those pet peeves would be needlessly killing large amounts of third parties in your plot, and a good balance of power in the main conflict.
Sorry, I shouldn't lower the tone of the thread. Carry on.
Luke actually isn't all that special in the Death Star dogfight, he nearly crashes early on, he shoots a TIE that's focused on someone else, and then gets in trouble before Wedge takes a TIE off his tail. Then there are other fighters shielding him all the way down the trench, and when they're dealt with he's right in their crosshairs until Han comes out of left field.
The only really impressive thing he does is make the shot, which the force is useful for, but he still needs a tonne of help to get that far. Then there's a timeskip, where he was presumably practicing.
The Force, and the ghost of his mentor, help with the shot, but he knows how the fighter works, that's not his first time in flight.
Anakin pushes things, but we have a reason he's allowed to podrace-Watto likes to gamble, and the guy who's physically incapable without force powers is a good way to buck the odds. Doesn't the autopilot somehow get him inside the main ship by accident? It's freakishly lucky, but it's not all on him.
Older Anakin has years of training by some of the wisest and most skilled people in the galaxy by episode 2, Rey doesn't seem to.
Rey ends up in situations where she has no help, dogfighting alone against two TIE fighters in tight quarters in a ship she has never flown before (she seems to be on bad terms with the junkyard owner, it seems doubtful he'd let her take a valuable possession for a spin. She lives in an AT-AT, and can't afford food, we see no friends or connections that could get her into a cockpit, and there was nothing about flight sims in the movie. Where she gets into a prolonged dogfight completely alone, against fighters with no other targets. Finn is limited help a\s his gun gets stuck.
Engineering: I have no issue with. Force Powers also fine.
Combat: She fights, yes, but not with a lightsabre. Those are supposed to be very difficult to use, and this is literally her first time to use it in combat, there's no timeskip where there could have been practice or training, since she's repelled by it initially and has no Jedi mentor time. But she holds her own against someone that uses it as their primary weapon.
I haven't seen it three times, but it makes no sense for him to be toying with Finn. You only do that when time is on your side, not only is he very badly hurt, but the Planet is about to explode. There doesn't seem to be any big grudge against Finn either, they don't have much contact, I don't remember the dialogue before the fight, was there much focus on Finn. He holds it together about Finn's escape earlier until he hears that 'a girl' helped him, so he must know something about Rey that we don't, but I didn't see any huge personal transgression against him. He has no reason to play around. You probably remember it better, I could be wrong. You were right about Vader's monologue.
It didn't ruin the movie for me or anything, but there is some basis for the idea that she's a bit overpowered.
Those pet peeves would be needlessly killing large amounts of third parties in your plot, and a good balance of power in the main conflict.
Sorry, I shouldn't lower the tone of the thread. Carry on.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Luke gets hit and keeps flying, which almost none of the other fighters manage, and is avoiding constant attack by TIEs and turbolaser fire. You can't just slight that skill as "he nearly crashes early on" because it's disingenuous to what he's doing, and how comparatively fragile fighter ships are. Additionally, it's worth noting the limitations of both what the Force was capable of in Episode IV (no telekinetic powers, and Vader & Obi-Wan was the peak of Lightsaber combat), as well as what their spacecraft combat models were capable of ("some maneuvers" was just listing lazily to the left).
You don't get fancy flight tricks with the spacecraft or what we see as "real" Force powers until Episode V, which is why I pull in mentions of Luke in The Empire Strikes Back, because it being the first, undeveloped part of the Star Wars universe means that it's all much lower key. That shot is an impressive feat of using the Force, and being superior to a targeting computer is the only real way to show an impressive Force-use feat in that film.
You don't get fancy flight tricks with the spacecraft or what we see as "real" Force powers until Episode V, which is why I pull in mentions of Luke in The Empire Strikes Back, because it being the first, undeveloped part of the Star Wars universe means that it's all much lower key. That shot is an impressive feat of using the Force, and being superior to a targeting computer is the only real way to show an impressive Force-use feat in that film.
Whether or not a 9-year-old is allowed isn't the point. It's supposed to be a sport that is physically impossible for a human being. His ability to fly a podracer AT ALL is a significantly superhuman ability. Also all the cringeworthy barrel rolls and such are Anakin's own piloting of the Naboo fighter. The autopilot just gets him up to the Trade Federation ship.
Again, like looking at some of Luke's skills from Episode V because of technological limitations and the Force not being as powerful in IV, you also have to consider some of Anakin's skills differently because he was 9 and the difference between any 9-year-old and 19-year-old are significant to start with.
Again, like looking at some of Luke's skills from Episode V because of technological limitations and the Force not being as powerful in IV, you also have to consider some of Anakin's skills differently because he was 9 and the difference between any 9-year-old and 19-year-old are significant to start with.
She's never flown the Falcon, that's never in question. However, she knows its entire ownership history, not to mention the advantage and disadvantage of seemingly every single modification installed on the ship. She knows everything about how the ship works, and how to make it do what it needs to, even if she's never used that particular ship before. She flies her own speeder, she even says to Finn that she's a pilot (which is as much as Luke ever did pre-X-Wing – also a ship he'd never specifically flown before). The only caveat ever mentioned is after they escape when she tells Finn she's never left the planet before – which a T-16 Skyhopper can't do either, so that's not a limitation on her piloting abilities, which are all done in low atmosphere and not in space.
Also soon as the Falcon's shields are up, losing and taking down two TIE fighters isn't a huge accomplishment. In Episode IV has the Falcon literally just sitting in space as 4 TIEs strafe back and forth shooting it until Han and Luke shoot them down, and flying at low altitude specifically scrambles their scanners, which means that the TIEs are also at a disadvantage.
While more of a visual spectacle, her piloting skills are nothing close to Luke's, and Luke's don't hold a candle to superhuman Anakin.
Also soon as the Falcon's shields are up, losing and taking down two TIE fighters isn't a huge accomplishment. In Episode IV has the Falcon literally just sitting in space as 4 TIEs strafe back and forth shooting it until Han and Luke shoot them down, and flying at low altitude specifically scrambles their scanners, which means that the TIEs are also at a disadvantage.
While more of a visual spectacle, her piloting skills are nothing close to Luke's, and Luke's don't hold a candle to superhuman Anakin.
Finn hadn't used one either and also doesn't have nearly as much CQC training with Melee weapons as Rey does. His failure to beat the Riot Trooper (nicknamed TR-8R) is clear proof of that. There is a marked difference between HIS very untrained lightsaber fighting and HER using a lightsaber with already impressive melee combat training with her quarterstaff. This shows pretty much everything you need to know, not to mention that she thrusts with the lightsaber to hit – like how she fights with a staff, rather than slicing with it as is typical of Lightsaber combat. That would likely make it a little more odd for Kylo Ren to defend against, despite his injuries.
You're just completely wrong here, so I'll break down the whole thing for you.
• Kylo Ren notices FN-2187's non-compliance on Jakku, but doesn't take action immediately. This leads to Poe's escape when Finn commits high treason by becoming a traitor and helping him escape, as well as the droid making it off of Jakku on the Falcon with his father, and him losing the ability to find Luke. (This is what causes him to rage and slice things apart the first time, because it's his shortcoming).
• When he fails to recover the droid at Maz's castle in exchange for taking Rey, she's able to not only resist his mental invasion and not give him the map to Luke, but also turn the tables and uses the Force to overpower his mental invasion and use it against him. When he leaves to tell Snoke and is commanded to bring the girl to him, Kylo Ren also fails to keep her captured because he leaves her with a guard who she uses to escape. (This is the source of his second bout of unbridled, lightsaber slicing frustration).
This essentially leaves him with three tests from Snoke:
• Confronting his father (which is supposed to be the most ultimate test he's ever faced, "Even you, master of the knights of Ren, has never faced such a test.")
• Killing the traitor.
• Recovering Rey.
So first, he meets with his father, confesses all of his difficulties, and manages to gain the strength he needs to face-to-face murder his own father, and he takes a VERY painful shot from Chewie's Bowcaster as a result. However, at the point that Han & Chewie detonate the support column, Starkiller Base is still not yet in any real danger. Having now passed a test that Snoke described as being his most difficult, he's got two more objectives to complete, so he goes after them.
He stops them, and Force pushes Rey into a tree to incapacitate her, and goes to deal with Finn. "We're not done yet." "That lightsaber belongs. to me."
Having succeeded his first monumental trial, he's now up against the traitor that's the source of all of his difficulties. He's relishing the moment of his victory against the traitor that's caused him all the trouble AND he's getting to recover his grandfather's lightsaber from him. He is ABSOLUTELY toying with Finn. Finn can't even best a Stormtrooper in melee combat, so he doesn't have a chance against Kylo Ren, and Ren is counting on that. He only gets serious when Finn's flailing manage to nick his shoulder - at which point, he repays the nick by pinning Finn and burning his shoulder with the quillon of his lightsaber, before handily disarming Finn of his weapon, and slicing through his back, mortally wounding Finn.
He's now on the high of victory 2 of 3, and goes to pull the lightsaber from the snow – but it comes to Rey.
He's not thinking that he's going to lose here, and the way he's fighting Rey makes that clear, because he's still on the offensive, but he isn't pressing it. His goal is to get Rey to JOIN them and bring her before Snoke, not to kill her. That's why he fights her to a stand-still with her back to a cliff and tells her that she doesn't know what she's doing and says that he can teach her. When she pauses, there's nothing for him to worry about there, because even he had to pause before finally getting the courage to kill his father. At that point, he's expecting his third victory. Yes, he's significantly wounded from the Bowcaster hit still but that's just fueling his connection to the Dark side in his moment of triumph.
That's why when Rey – who has just watched "the father she never had" Han Solo get murdered by Kylo Ren, in ADDITION to Finn "the one who came back for her" (which we should remember – someone coming back for her is literally the ONLY thing that she's ever wanted. EVER. even more than a family). rather than breaking down and admitting defeat, centers herself with the Force and goes on the offensive with all of her skill (apparent in her fighting style) to best Kylo Ren with his own grandfather's blade. It's an upset yes, but not a huge one:
• Kylo Ren:
- Tired, grievously injured, overconfident from victory, still emotionally affected from Solo's death.
• Rey:
- Fresh, furious, still emotionally affected from Solo's death & Finn's (near) death.
Again - there is not anything that makes her at all overpowered or superhuman here – especially compared against existing capabilities of Force users and non-Force users.
• Kylo Ren notices FN-2187's non-compliance on Jakku, but doesn't take action immediately. This leads to Poe's escape when Finn commits high treason by becoming a traitor and helping him escape, as well as the droid making it off of Jakku on the Falcon with his father, and him losing the ability to find Luke. (This is what causes him to rage and slice things apart the first time, because it's his shortcoming).
• When he fails to recover the droid at Maz's castle in exchange for taking Rey, she's able to not only resist his mental invasion and not give him the map to Luke, but also turn the tables and uses the Force to overpower his mental invasion and use it against him. When he leaves to tell Snoke and is commanded to bring the girl to him, Kylo Ren also fails to keep her captured because he leaves her with a guard who she uses to escape. (This is the source of his second bout of unbridled, lightsaber slicing frustration).
This essentially leaves him with three tests from Snoke:
• Confronting his father (which is supposed to be the most ultimate test he's ever faced, "Even you, master of the knights of Ren, has never faced such a test.")
• Killing the traitor.
• Recovering Rey.
So first, he meets with his father, confesses all of his difficulties, and manages to gain the strength he needs to face-to-face murder his own father, and he takes a VERY painful shot from Chewie's Bowcaster as a result. However, at the point that Han & Chewie detonate the support column, Starkiller Base is still not yet in any real danger. Having now passed a test that Snoke described as being his most difficult, he's got two more objectives to complete, so he goes after them.
He stops them, and Force pushes Rey into a tree to incapacitate her, and goes to deal with Finn. "We're not done yet." "That lightsaber belongs. to me."
Having succeeded his first monumental trial, he's now up against the traitor that's the source of all of his difficulties. He's relishing the moment of his victory against the traitor that's caused him all the trouble AND he's getting to recover his grandfather's lightsaber from him. He is ABSOLUTELY toying with Finn. Finn can't even best a Stormtrooper in melee combat, so he doesn't have a chance against Kylo Ren, and Ren is counting on that. He only gets serious when Finn's flailing manage to nick his shoulder - at which point, he repays the nick by pinning Finn and burning his shoulder with the quillon of his lightsaber, before handily disarming Finn of his weapon, and slicing through his back, mortally wounding Finn.
He's now on the high of victory 2 of 3, and goes to pull the lightsaber from the snow – but it comes to Rey.
He's not thinking that he's going to lose here, and the way he's fighting Rey makes that clear, because he's still on the offensive, but he isn't pressing it. His goal is to get Rey to JOIN them and bring her before Snoke, not to kill her. That's why he fights her to a stand-still with her back to a cliff and tells her that she doesn't know what she's doing and says that he can teach her. When she pauses, there's nothing for him to worry about there, because even he had to pause before finally getting the courage to kill his father. At that point, he's expecting his third victory. Yes, he's significantly wounded from the Bowcaster hit still but that's just fueling his connection to the Dark side in his moment of triumph.
That's why when Rey – who has just watched "the father she never had" Han Solo get murdered by Kylo Ren, in ADDITION to Finn "the one who came back for her" (which we should remember – someone coming back for her is literally the ONLY thing that she's ever wanted. EVER. even more than a family). rather than breaking down and admitting defeat, centers herself with the Force and goes on the offensive with all of her skill (apparent in her fighting style) to best Kylo Ren with his own grandfather's blade. It's an upset yes, but not a huge one:
• Kylo Ren:
- Tired, grievously injured, overconfident from victory, still emotionally affected from Solo's death.
• Rey:
- Fresh, furious, still emotionally affected from Solo's death & Finn's (near) death.
Again - there is not anything that makes her at all overpowered or superhuman here – especially compared against existing capabilities of Force users and non-Force users.
The only needless killing would be the planetary destruction at Starkiller, and the gunned-down unarmed civilians. Everyone else killed was in a combat scenario, so I'm not sure who you think was killed needlessly, unless you're referring to either of those events – both of which exist to set a precedent about the First Order.
Also, I'm still failing to see any issues with a balance of power in the main conflict, but I am still curious about what balances you see as being off.
Don't even worry about "lowering the tone of the thread" it's all just discussion, and you're more than entitled to discuss your opinion.
Also, I'm still failing to see any issues with a balance of power in the main conflict, but I am still curious about what balances you see as being off.
Don't even worry about "lowering the tone of the thread" it's all just discussion, and you're more than entitled to discuss your opinion.
X
Geostigma
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- gabe
To add to the piloting stuff
They are dog fighting in literally her back yard and going through a downed ship she very obviously has navigated a ton of times. That's a huge advantage.
With everything X mentioned it's not that impossible to see how that scene and the rest of Reys feats aren't far fetched or "OP" at all.
With everything X mentioned it's not that impossible to see how that scene and the rest of Reys feats aren't far fetched or "OP" at all.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
On a different note: The Art of The Force Awakens is a fucking excellent art book with just loads of amazing concept art. It's a great coffee table-type piece.
The Visual Dictionary of The Force Awakens has a lot of really nice little details about the background that aren't explicitly detailed in the film: the most interesting being things like how the New Republic and the remnants of the Empire as The First Order came to be, or that Phasma's armor is made from chromium salvaged from one of Palpatine's personal Naboo yachts.
Additionally, some of the little things that I really love about the film that aren't related to the nerdy bits that I wanted to mention
X
The Visual Dictionary of The Force Awakens has a lot of really nice little details about the background that aren't explicitly detailed in the film: the most interesting being things like how the New Republic and the remnants of the Empire as The First Order came to be, or that Phasma's armor is made from chromium salvaged from one of Palpatine's personal Naboo yachts.
Additionally, some of the little things that I really love about the film that aren't related to the nerdy bits that I wanted to mention
Things like the scene where Rey looks at the old lady polishing scrapped parts, and she has an introspective moment of wondering if she'll end up old like that – but the whole scene is done without ANY dialogue and only camera shots and expression.
Also, the sun fading as you watch Kylo Ren slowly decide not to succumb to the call to the Light side of the Force, to literally portray his shift back to the Dark side – same with the rift that splits between him and Rey as soon as she bests him in combat to show the rift between them being two sides of the Force (again, the Anakin & Vader legacy).
There are lots of other utterly spectacular design and cinematic elements that I enjoy, like how the different climates and settings on the planet and elsewhere are used to provide a mood setting, and not just a new backdrop, or little details like the scrappers pulling parts from the TIE fighter as it hits the sands. However, there are two things that still feel like they could've been improved.
The one that I have to concede is a J.J. Abrams thing that I think didn't work was the final shot of Rey & Luke being the slow rotating helicopter shot, because literally every other Star Wars film ends on a static shot of the characters as a group.
The other is that the bits in interior of Maz's castle of the inhabitants, because there are a lot of panning shots as they move through big groups, but they don't get us a clear look at some of them because they're a little bit too quick. The static shots make up for a few of them, but they don't linger the extra half second or two that would've really let you appreciate everyone.
Also, the sun fading as you watch Kylo Ren slowly decide not to succumb to the call to the Light side of the Force, to literally portray his shift back to the Dark side – same with the rift that splits between him and Rey as soon as she bests him in combat to show the rift between them being two sides of the Force (again, the Anakin & Vader legacy).
There are lots of other utterly spectacular design and cinematic elements that I enjoy, like how the different climates and settings on the planet and elsewhere are used to provide a mood setting, and not just a new backdrop, or little details like the scrappers pulling parts from the TIE fighter as it hits the sands. However, there are two things that still feel like they could've been improved.
The one that I have to concede is a J.J. Abrams thing that I think didn't work was the final shot of Rey & Luke being the slow rotating helicopter shot, because literally every other Star Wars film ends on a static shot of the characters as a group.
The other is that the bits in interior of Maz's castle of the inhabitants, because there are a lot of panning shots as they move through big groups, but they don't get us a clear look at some of them because they're a little bit too quick. The static shots make up for a few of them, but they don't linger the extra half second or two that would've really let you appreciate everyone.
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Charles Xavier
Pro Adventurer
It's official. 'FA' has overtaken 'Avatar' as the highest-grossing movie in the US!
http://www.movies.com/movie-news/star-wars-highest-grossing-movie-ever/19853?wssac=164&wssaffid=news
http://www.movies.com/movie-news/star-wars-highest-grossing-movie-ever/19853?wssac=164&wssaffid=news
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
And it's done so in a fraction of the time. I really can't even imagine where it's gonna end once it's all said and done – especially because it only FINALLY opens in China in two days.
I'm most interest in seeing where it ends up here: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm
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Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
Ok, time for another theory of mine. This one has to do with Rey's origins, and the plot of the trilogy as a whole.
For the moment let us forget the idea that Rey is Luke's daughter. She could be, but its not necessary for this theory to work. We know that Rey was left on Jakku for reasons unknown when she was a child. I'm going to say that Luke was the one who left her there in order to hide her from the First Order. I'm also going to say that she is not the only one he hid.
When Luke was building the new Jedi Order it is possible that a number of force sensitive children came under his care. When Kylo Ren slaughtered his fellow apprentices we know that Luke blamed himself and stepped away from the galaxy's center stage. Before he did he hid the force sensitive children in different places across the galaxy in remote places where it was unlikely the First Order, or Kylo Ren in particular would think to look.
But then why doesn't Rey have any memory of this event? Simple, when Luke hid the children he placed a block on their memories. So Rey doesn't remember being left behind by Luke, she remember it as being her family that left her here. This way the children don't bring attention to themselves by talking about their time at the Jedi Academy.
If all of that were true, then the main plot thread of the next movie would likely focus on Luke and Rey seeking out these lost children of the force in order to make another attempt at bringing the Jedi back into the galaxy. With the New Republic having been destroyed, the galaxy will need the Jedi in order to defeat Snoke and his First Order.
This is also where the Knights Of Ren could come into play, as Snoke would likely send them out to hunt down and kill the lost children of the force before Luke can get to them. So it would be a race between Luke/Rey and the Knights Of Ren, with the future of the Jedi Order at stake.
In the meantime of course Leia would be leading whats left of the Republic and the Resistance in an attempt to stop the First Order from taking over the galaxy. But with the New Republic's fleet having been destroyed its ultimately not a fight that can be won through military might, so in the end Leia's forces, including Finn and Poe, would come to Luke and Rey's aid for the climax of Episode VIII.
For the moment let us forget the idea that Rey is Luke's daughter. She could be, but its not necessary for this theory to work. We know that Rey was left on Jakku for reasons unknown when she was a child. I'm going to say that Luke was the one who left her there in order to hide her from the First Order. I'm also going to say that she is not the only one he hid.
When Luke was building the new Jedi Order it is possible that a number of force sensitive children came under his care. When Kylo Ren slaughtered his fellow apprentices we know that Luke blamed himself and stepped away from the galaxy's center stage. Before he did he hid the force sensitive children in different places across the galaxy in remote places where it was unlikely the First Order, or Kylo Ren in particular would think to look.
But then why doesn't Rey have any memory of this event? Simple, when Luke hid the children he placed a block on their memories. So Rey doesn't remember being left behind by Luke, she remember it as being her family that left her here. This way the children don't bring attention to themselves by talking about their time at the Jedi Academy.
If all of that were true, then the main plot thread of the next movie would likely focus on Luke and Rey seeking out these lost children of the force in order to make another attempt at bringing the Jedi back into the galaxy. With the New Republic having been destroyed, the galaxy will need the Jedi in order to defeat Snoke and his First Order.
This is also where the Knights Of Ren could come into play, as Snoke would likely send them out to hunt down and kill the lost children of the force before Luke can get to them. So it would be a race between Luke/Rey and the Knights Of Ren, with the future of the Jedi Order at stake.
In the meantime of course Leia would be leading whats left of the Republic and the Resistance in an attempt to stop the First Order from taking over the galaxy. But with the New Republic's fleet having been destroyed its ultimately not a fight that can be won through military might, so in the end Leia's forces, including Finn and Poe, would come to Luke and Rey's aid for the climax of Episode VIII.
Shademp
420
Imgur provides more. Full spoilers.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
I figure that Rey's mom was on the run from the Academy massacre since before Rey was born – especially since Snoke was a known entity since long before that (per Leia's comments about knowing things about Ben in the novelization). I think that they kept going and she dropped off Rey on Jakku with Unkar Plutt at the earliest that she could conceivably survive on her own.
Again – without a clear timeline of events and the characters' ages, it's difficult to tell but it is possible that Rey wasn't born yet around the time of the massacre, depending on the age differences between her and Kylo Ren. I do really feel that regardless of whether or not Luke actually IS her father, he's never actually seen her face before she met him at the end of VII.
It's a lot less complicated than Luke not just abandoning the Jedi he'd trained, but wiping their minds and contributing to expunging his own legacy seems a little severe and very... un-Luke-like.
Again – without a clear timeline of events and the characters' ages, it's difficult to tell but it is possible that Rey wasn't born yet around the time of the massacre, depending on the age differences between her and Kylo Ren. I do really feel that regardless of whether or not Luke actually IS her father, he's never actually seen her face before she met him at the end of VII.
It's a lot less complicated than Luke not just abandoning the Jedi he'd trained, but wiping their minds and contributing to expunging his own legacy seems a little severe and very... un-Luke-like.
Also, I haven't seen Star Wars yet this year. I need to fix this.
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Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
It's a lot less complicated than Luke not just abandoning the Jedi he'd trained, but wiping their minds and contributing to expunging his own legacy seems a little severe and very... un-Luke-like.
Also, I haven't seen Star Wars yet this year. I need to fix this.
X
I think maybe you misunderstood me. In my theory Luke doesn't wipe the childrens memory to expunge himself, its to protect the children themselves. Otherwise there is a big risk that these children will talk about their time at the Jedi Academy. People that young simply won't understand the importance of keeping quiet. It would only be a matter of time before the attention of Kylo Ren would be drawn to them under those circumstances. Luke would have wiped their memories to prevent that from happening. With those memories being removed, the children are now just that, children, of no interest to the First Order.
Also yeah, what are you even doing? We're seven days into the new year, get your ass back into the theater already.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
It's a lot less complicated than Luke not just abandoning the Jedi he'd trained, but wiping their minds and contributing to expunging his own legacy seems a little severe and very... un-Luke-like.
Also, I haven't seen Star Wars yet this year. I need to fix this.
XI think maybe you misunderstood me. In my theory Luke doesn't wipe the childrens memory to expunge himself, its to protect the children themselves. Otherwise there is a big risk that these children will talk about their time at the Jedi Academy. People that young simply won't understand the importance of keeping quiet. It would only be a matter of time before the attention of Kylo Ren would be drawn to them under those circumstances. Luke would have wiped their memories to prevent that from happening. With those memories being removed, the children are now just that, children, of no interest to the First Order.
Also yeah, what are you even doing? We're seven days into the new year, get your ass back into the theater already.
Oh, I get where you're coming from, I just think that the destruction of the new Jedi Academy is rough enough without Luke needing to be involved in erasing his students' minds. I think that the massacre there was just that, and none of the students were left alive, and Luke couldn't bring himself to kill Ben (if he wouldn't kill Vader, he sure as hell wouldn't kill him), and fled instead.
Mildly related - the fact that he seeks out the first Jedi Temple means that we're likely looking at what the Light and Dark Sides of the Force meant before things became dogmatic over the 1000 years of the Jedi & Sith's last bout.
Mildly related - the fact that he seeks out the first Jedi Temple means that we're likely looking at what the Light and Dark Sides of the Force meant before things became dogmatic over the 1000 years of the Jedi & Sith's last bout.
I really, really should this weekend.
X
lithiumkatana17
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Lith
Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
I'll call that pic of Force Ghost Anakikn and raise you a fan-fic of Force Ghost Anakin showing up
and not being happy when Kylo Ren wants to learn from Darth Vader as opposed to Anakin Skywalker.
Don't Forget (Your Bones and Skin)
Actually, go read all the Star Wars stuff by that author, they've got some well thought out headcanons...
for the interrogation scene
Don't Forget (Your Bones and Skin)
Actually, go read all the Star Wars stuff by that author, they've got some well thought out headcanons...
Tetsujin
he/they
- AKA
- Tets
Cthulhu
Administrator
- AKA
- Yop
Evolution of / props used in creating Luke Skywalker's light saber (spoiler: ye olde camera flash unit)
edit: also, luke / hamill is older now than obi wan was in ep 1/4
edit: also, luke / hamill is older now than obi wan was in ep 1/4
Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
Someone pieced together all the bits in the soundtrack when Kylo Ren's music plays, and it is awesome.