Star Wars: Episode 7, 8... and BEYOND!

Ghost X

Moderator
Re: Fan theories: ...but would you put money on it :awesome:. The greatest thing that sucks about intellectual property rights that favour rich corporations is that some of these fan theories will never see the light of day by independent film creators :P. I have a feeling the sequels will simply not live up to some of the awesome ones I've read. Disney will take the safe road. We all know it :P.

Also. I have a startling revelation...
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Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Didn't Snoke say it was time for Kylo Ren to finish his training? I think he's going to become crazy powerful now. Definitely something different than Vader.

Based entirely on the way Snoke looks, I was expecting that to mean that he intends to take Ren's body. That is of course a total guess though, obviously.

Hmmm...

That could actually be really cool. :monster:
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
Re: Fan theories: ...but would you put money on it :awesome:. The greatest thing that sucks about intellectual property rights that favour rich corporations is that some of these fan theories will never see the light of day by independent film creators :P. I have a feeling the sequels will simply not live up to some of the awesome ones I've read. Disney will take the safe road. We all know it :P.

Also. I have a startling revelation...
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hmmm hmmmm

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X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
How do they have the pull to built a superweapon that is ten times more powerful than all the empire's resources could, then, in secret? And how can they possibly continue the fight after losing said superweapon and most of the staff inside it? (Maybe the next movie will have them a tattered remnant of their former selves on the run, but I doubt it.)

The story would have worked so much better if it was just a big base.

Well, there's the Unknown regions and Outer Rim which is where the First Order originated, which means that they're not an area of space that's a big part of the Galaxy insofar as the Senate & Republic are concerned.

Also, keep in mind that the First order is only ever shown having ONE Star Destroyer – the Finalizer. Even in A New Hope, the Empire's Star Destroyers were plentiful, so I think that how the First Order consolidates its military force is going to be different from the Empire – ESPECIALLY since the New Republic's military was eliminated, along with Starkiller base. I think that Episode VIII will be quite different, and it's FAR too early to make any speculation about what will or won't be in it.

Well, he seems to care about that first guy that died. I'm not saying that he can't kill other stormtroopers, but he shouldn't exactly be cheering about it, if he broke the conditioning, how does he know that others aren't fighting from the inside too?

Well, if you want the full backstory behind that, FN-2187 (Finn) was a part of a 4-man cell in his training simulations, but was reprimanded for attempting to save his fellow trooper FN-2003, rather than prioritizing the mission objective (which is the reason he was only designated as FN-2187 and not given a nickname/handle). FN-2003 is the trooper who's shot and killed at the start and leaves the blood streaks on his helmet – i.e. his only real person connection with any of the other Stormtroopers.

Even barring knowing that backstory, Finn knows that none of the other Stormtroopers will give so much as a moment's hesitation if ordered to kill him, as – not a single one of the other troopers on the dropships sent to Jakku so much as hesitated to gun down the civillians, and they'd be even MORE motivated to kill a known traitor.



Brilliant mechanic: perfectly fine. Not the same thing as brilliant pilot.

Luke had flight experience already on Tattoine, as well as shooting small targets at high speeds 'I could bullseye womprats back home'. He was along for the ride against the death star because they needed every pilot they had, and didn't do anything that spectacular in the dogfight before the final shot, which he only got because he was the last man standing, he wasn't the rebel's first choice to take it. And Vader had him right in his crosshairs before Han showed up out of the blue. That was a good example of force sensitivity boosting training, not replacing it.

I never said it was the same thing. In fact, she only flies the Falcon once on Jakku, and then only takes it into Hyperspace later to find Luke with Chewbacca as a copilot. That's it. She spends more time tinkering with the mechanics of the Falcon, and bypassing the modifications done to it more than anything - which was my point. She's far better at knowing how the Falcon works and last second fixing things to make it a more capable piece of junk than she does to fly well with it. For example:

• Her initial takeoff is incredibly sloppy. She has to bail out of the Star Destroyer's super structure through a hole because she's out of her element. She's unintentionally skimming the ground a lot, during her initial escape.

Despite some fancy (Force assisted) maneuvering, she's not an amazing pilot any more than Finn is an amazing gunner.

Especially when you compare her against Han Solo (let's make our landing approach to Starkiller base at light speed and then INTENTIONALLY not pull above the treeline while landing to avoid detection), and Poe Dameron (fly through a trench into a crack, before collapsing the X-Wing's s-foils and fly into the Starkiller oscillator's super structure and gun down ALL of the remaining support columns before exiting back out the tiny crack, not to mention taking out multiple TIE fighters while picking off the Stormtroopers surrounding Finn, Han, & Chewie at Maz's).

Her flying the Falcon and Finn shooting out the TIE Fighters are both them doing something that they're familiar with, but not exceptional at – which explains their amazed congratulations to each other once they exit Jakku's atmosphere.

Sure, Rey is a good melee fighter, but picking up a lightsabre for the very first time and being able to put up a fight against someone trained by Luke is a bit hard to buy. He is hurt, but if they were going for 'they can put up a fight because he's hurt', that was the wrong way to frame it.

If that was what they were going for, it should have been a chase, rather than him somehow getting ahead of them, with Ren staggering along, pulling himself forward with trees, with the others doing their best to stay out of range, engaging only when they have to. Instead, they both choose to engage him.

If he's so badly hurt (and punching his wound so as not to pass out was a nice touch), Ren should be pressing his advantage as much as he can, he needs to end things quickly before he collapses. He should have punished Rey for closing her eyes for ten seconds in the middle of a swordfight.

Edit: Sorry, I shouldn't be that guy, I liked Kylo Ren personality-wise, I just think he should have been more capable versus two people that have never used a lightsabre in combat before (well, Finn has, but lost hard instantly.)

Two things:

One - He's playing with Finn after knocking out Rey against the tree, because Finn was a traitor and Kylo Ren WANTS to take him out. It's the shortcoming that he feels frustration over because he noticed him on Jakku, and didn't take care of it then and there. He toys with Finn, and only when he gets nicked slightly does he get serious – at which point he absolutely DESTROYS Finn.

Two - He doesn't want to kill Rey. That's why he Force pushes her into a tree and knocks her out right at the start, and during the fight he doesn't even TRY to kill her outright. If he went to his full Force power, he'd have just murdered her before she got started. He pins her back and offers to train her. That's because he knows she's a really powerful Force user PLUS he's supposed to bring her to Snoke (which is the OTHER thing that he failed to do, and you see him raging about and cutting things to pieces). – On top of that while she's relying only on her combat skills, she STILL loses to the significantly injured and tired Kylo Ren. It's only Force + Combat skills that let her best him injured. None of that even remotely makes her "impossibly skilled."





X :neo:
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
I have no problems accepting (SPOILER) that Kylo lost -- between the wound he got from Chewie, the one or two small hits Finn (who has combat training) got in, still being shocked/horrified at his own actions, and Rey opening up to letting The Force guide her, plausibility is not an issue.

That said, I can understand why you wouldn't love it regardless since it makes Ren seem less intimidating to watch him be defeated in the first movie when there are still two to go. All I can say is they must be going for something different here than what was done with Vader.

Though, for that matter, even Vader lucked out at the end of "A New Hope." Had Han and Chewie landed a more direct hit then, Vader would have been space dust. Or -- had Luke not been reduced to the last man standing -- his TIE Advanced would have been a sitting duck for another pilot.

Granted, losing there left a different impression than losing a lightsaber duel.
Finn has combat training...with a blaster. If he was supposed to be good at melee, they did a terrible job of showing it in the movie, with him consistently wanting a blaster any time he's in combat and instantly losing hard the time he gets into close range combat with that random stormtrooper.

The Force is helpful, but it doesn't make actual training in it irrelevant. Half trained Luke tries to take on Vader in ESB and gets wrecked. Kylo Ren is no Vader, but Rey is also no Luke, this is literally the first time she has ever tried to use a lightsabre, v Kylon Ren, who has at least some training. I'm not saying she can't have won, but the victory shouldn't have been sword to sword. Make it a force throw, with his wound, and her already demonstrated strong force abilities, and it works fine.

Even barring knowing that backstory, Finn knows that none of the other Stormtroopers will give so much as a moment's hesitation if ordered to kill him, as – not a single one of the other troopers on the dropships sent to Jakku so much as hesitated to gun down the civillians, and they'd be even MORE motivated to kill a known traitor.

How does he know that? If he can break the conditioning while keeping up the masquerade, so can other people. He can still kill to survive, he just shouldn't be so happy about it.

I never said it was the same thing. In fact, she only flies the Falcon once on Jakku, and then only takes it into Hyperspace later to find Luke with Chewbacca as a copilot. That's it. She spends more time tinkering with the mechanics of the Falcon, and bypassing the modifications done to it more than anything - which was my point. She's far better at knowing how the Falcon works and last second fixing things to make it a more capable piece of junk than she does to fly well with it. For example:

• Her initial takeoff is incredibly sloppy. She has to bail out of the Star Destroyer's super structure through a hole because she's out of her element. She's unintentionally skimming the ground a lot, during her initial escape.

Despite some fancy (Force assisted) maneuvering, she's not an amazing pilot any more than Finn is an amazing gunner.

She outflies two professional TIE fighters in an unfamiliar craft (one she dismisses as 'junk' before they take it.) They're flying low on purpose to confuse the tracking. Yeah, it's not perfect, but for a literal first attempt that's incredible. Anakin and Luke do get some plot armour in their first movies, but they don't pick up force powers and lightsabre duelling on their first try as well as their established piloting abilities.

One - He's playing with Finn after knocking out Rey against the tree, because Finn was a traitor and Kylo Ren WANTS to take him out. It's the shortcoming that he feels frustration over because he noticed him on Jakku, and didn't take care of it then and there. He toys with Finn, and only when he gets nicked slightly does he get serious – at which point he absolutely DESTROYS Finn.

You don't toy with somebody when you're that seriously wounded. Kylo Ren is badly hurt, we know that much, he has to stop and hit himself several times just to keep going. But deliberately prolonging the fight isn't something someone barely still on his feet does, he should be ending things as quickly as he can before he passes out.

Going back to ESB, Vader makes his 'join me' speech after Luke is disarmed, not mid swordfight. All they had to do was frame it a little bit different, Rey disarmed or on the ground while the speech is made. That way, her closing her eyes for ten seconds isn't as questionable, and she gets a win without making Kylo Ren look bad when we're supposed to take him as a major, if immature, threat.

I'm not hating on the movie, I liked all the characters and Kylo Ren was a particularly interesting direction to go, but it just happened to step on two of my pet peeves. I don't dislike Rey either, I just think she would be better drawn as not quite as capable this early in the story.

[/spoiler]

Edit: Sorry, guys, I messed up the spoilers the first time I posted, hopefully didn't ruin this for anyone.
 
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Ghost X

Moderator
You still got one spoiler end tag there (lacking terminology) hanging in the breeze, though that paragraph isn't too spoilery, I guess.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Even barring knowing that backstory, Finn knows that none of the other Stormtroopers will give so much as a moment's hesitation if ordered to kill him, as – not a single one of the other troopers on the dropships sent to Jakku so much as hesitated to gun down the civillians, and they'd be even MORE motivated to kill a known traitor.

How does he know that? If he can break the conditioning while keeping up the masquerade, so can other people. He can still kill to survive, he just shouldn't be so happy about it.

He's not breaking conditioning while keeping up a masquerade though. He is almost totally failing at being ok 100% of the time you see him still in Stormtrooper garb. His very first combat mission involved gunning down unarmed civilians and that was his breaking point. He's happy about pulling off shots that will keep him (and Poe) alive, he's not gleefully murdering other troopers.

What exactly are you referring to?


I never said it was the same thing. In fact, she only flies the Falcon once on Jakku, and then only takes it into Hyperspace later to find Luke with Chewbacca as a copilot. That's it. She spends more time tinkering with the mechanics of the Falcon, and bypassing the modifications done to it more than anything - which was my point. She's far better at knowing how the Falcon works and last second fixing things to make it a more capable piece of junk than she does to fly well with it. For example:

• Her initial takeoff is incredibly sloppy. She has to bail out of the Star Destroyer's super structure through a hole because she's out of her element. She's unintentionally skimming the ground a lot, during her initial escape.

Despite some fancy (Force assisted) maneuvering, she's not an amazing pilot any more than Finn is an amazing gunner.

She outflies two professional TIE fighters in an unfamiliar craft (one she dismisses as 'junk' before they take it.) They're flying low on purpose to confuse the tracking. Yeah, it's not perfect, but for a literal first attempt that's incredible. Anakin and Luke do get some plot armour in their first movies, but they don't pick up force powers and lightsabre duelling on their first try as well as their established piloting abilities.

Saying that Rey was outflying TIE Fighters is like saying someone is outshooting Stormtroopers – You can make it SOUND impressive, but it is literally the Star Wars equivalent of proving that you're more capable than the lowest-tier bad guys. It's not something utterly awe-inspiring.

If you break everything down, Rey's skillset is really not unprecedented in the slightest.

Luke: Age 19
• Piloting: He's "not such a bad pilot" who can hit Womprats in a T-16 Skyhopper, which are both off-handed comments that it's something he grew up around, but nothing we're shown – which then lets him to survive attacks that all the other Rebel pilots fail/get killed attempting.
The Force: The Force in Episode IV IS what allows Luke to make a shot that even a targeting computer failed. The Force as telekinetic capabilities doesn't even EXIST until Episode V – which Luke shows to be using untrained within the Wampa Ice Cave even before training with Yoda.
Engineering: We don't see Luke do too much aside from basic repairs with the assistance of R2, but he does some work on the vaporators and such being a farm hand, and we know that he manages to construct his own lightsaber, seemingly without direct guidance.
Combat: We just assume that he does lightsaber training with Yoda, since we never see Luke train with a lightsaber outside of the scene on the Falcon in IV. On top of that, he's an exceptional Dogfighter in his X-Wing.

Anakin: Age 9
Piloting: Podracing, in addition to all the crazy maneuvers that this involves, is a sport that is said to be something that Humans are supposed to be LITERALLY INCAPABLE OF DOING, not to mention what he manages in the Naboo fighter.
The Force: Anakin is Jesus-like created from the Force and is already using it to augment both his piloting skills and mechanical/engineering skills. He gets "plot armor" in the form of luck that seems to be Force-related as well.
Engineering: Anakin is repairing everything Watto finds that's broken, built himself a Protocol droid, and constructed his own Podracer by half Luke/Rey's age.
Combat: By the time he's old enough to fight, he's trained but it doesn't factor in to this beyond his luck in being places and blowing up Trade Federation ships, because he's friggin' 9. His piloting skills also make him near-unstoppable at dogfighting once he gets the time to start doing it, and reaches Luke/Rey's age.

Rey: Age 19
• Piloting: Rey manages to decently pilot a craft that she's familiar with (she knows the lengthy ownership history and all the modifications done to the Falcon and the fact that it's junk that she knows what the ship is capable of despite not having taken it off the ground on her own).
The Force: She has Force visions. After Kylo Ren uses the Force to invade her mind, she's able to use that talent and resist it. Likewise, when mimicking the Jedi Mind Trick, she is able to trial-and-error her way into it.
Engineering: Her life was spent scrapping and engineering on derelict ships. She's incredibly talented, but not supernaturally so.
Combat: Rey's grown up somewhere where she literally fights to survive. Her combat skills are enough for her to best two surprise assailants with her staff, in addition to ambushing Finn after he saw her. Upon concentration, she's able to use the Force to improve her focus on her Combat skills and overcome an injured Kylo Ren.


Rey essentially has a swapped talent set with Luke for Piloting and Engineering – the key difference is that Piloting also includes Dogfighting, whereas Rey's Engineering takes place in an environment that gets her basic Combat skills which happens to have synergy with lightsaber combat.

While her budding Force Powers are more powerful than Luke's in Episode IV/V, they're still not the same as the 9-year-old-savant Anakin, let alone older Anakin. Keep in mind that this is also taking place in a setting where Kylo Ren can HALT BLASTER FIRE IN MID-AIR with the Force and hold it there while maintaining a conversation, which is well beyond anything we've seen – even from the Jedi in the prequel trilogy. Additionally, the film is CALLED "The Force Awakens" which is all about Rey's incredible Force Powers coming to life.



One - He's playing with Finn after knocking out Rey against the tree, because Finn was a traitor and Kylo Ren WANTS to take him out. It's the shortcoming that he feels frustration over because he noticed him on Jakku, and didn't take care of it then and there. He toys with Finn, and only when he gets nicked slightly does he get serious – at which point he absolutely DESTROYS Finn.

You don't toy with somebody when you're that seriously wounded. Kylo Ren is badly hurt, we know that much, he has to stop and hit himself several times just to keep going. But deliberately prolonging the fight isn't something someone barely still on his feet does, he should be ending things as quickly as he can before he passes out.

Going back to ESB, Vader makes his 'join me' speech after Luke is disarmed, not mid swordfight. All they had to do was frame it a little bit different, Rey disarmed or on the ground while the speech is made. That way, her closing her eyes for ten seconds isn't as questionable, and she gets a win without making Kylo Ren look bad when we're supposed to take him as a major, if immature, threat.
I've seen the film 3 times, and he is absolutely toying with Finn. Regardless of his injury, he (rightly) doesn't see Finn as any threat. He wants to savor the victory over him because it's a personal fault that he's attempting to overcome. He's not seeing this as prolonging things needlessly, especially because he offhandedly knocked Rey unconscious by Force pushing her into a tree.

Vader is monologuing about giving Luke to the Emperor the entire fight in Empire Strike Back, not just when he's disarmed. Again, Kylo Ren ISN'T attempting to kill her, so Rey closing her eyes during the fight isn't a negative, especially when he just asked her to join him.


I'm not hating on the movie, I liked all the characters and Kylo Ren was a particularly interesting direction to go, but it just happened to step on two of my pet peeves. I don't dislike Rey either, I just think she would be better drawn as not quite as capable this early in the story.

Which two pet peeves are those?




X :neo:
 

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
^^All of the above are why I roll my eyes whenever people say Rey is too "OP" with the force. We've never see what force persuasion by an untrained adult force-user looks like. Trial-and-Erroring it a few times before it sticks? Yeah, I can buy that.
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
I've seen the film 3 times, and he is absolutely toying with Finn. Regardless of his injury, he (rightly) doesn't see Finn as any threat. He wants to savor the victory over him because it's a personal fault that he's attempting to overcome. He's not seeing this as prolonging things needlessly, especially because he offhandedly knocked Rey unconscious by Force pushing her into a tree.

Vader is monologuing about giving Luke to the Emperor the entire fight in Empire Strike Back, not just when he's disarmed. Again, Kylo Ren ISN'T attempting to kill her, so Rey closing her eyes during the fight isn't a negative, especially when he just asked her to join him.

100% agree with your whole post but want to add to this specifically.

Kylo Ren is most definitely toying with Finn and savoring the moment. At the very beginning of the film Kylo Ren identifies that something is up with Finn on Jakku, but disregards it and moves on.

He even instantly says it was Finn who let Poe free before having 100% of the information. Essentially acknowledging he shouldn't have just dismissed his feeling about Finn earlier on Jakku.

Kylo Rens first huge freak out is due to news about Finn as well.
It's not just that Finn was a "traitor" it's that for every achievement Finn makes, Kylo takes it as a personal failure.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
100% agree with your whole post but want to add to this specifically.

Kylo Ren is most definitely toying with Finn and savoring the moment. At the very beginning of the film Kylo Ren identifies that something is up with Finn on Jakku, but disregards it and moves on.

He even instantly says it was Finn who let Poe free before having 100% of the information. Essentially acknowledging he shouldn't have just dismissed his feeling about Finn earlier on Jakku.

Kylo Rens first huge freak out is due to news about Finn as well.
It's not just that Finn was a "traitor" it's that for every achievement Finn makes, Kylo takes it as a personal failure.

Precisely.


Kylo Ren's TWO freakouts are over not taking care of FN-2187 on Jakku – which lead to ALL of the problems, and letting Rey escape because he posted a guard with her.

That's why the fight is split into two sections, and why it goes down the way that it does – especially because it's just after he killed his father to overcome the pain he was always in, so he feels triumphant despite the pain, because that's just a focus he's using to dig deeper into the Dark Side.

The whole ending is Kylo Ren's trials:
• He overcame the call to the light, and killed his father.
• He confronted the traitor, and struck him down.
• He failed to recover his grandfather's lightsaber, or bring her to Snoke — thus leading to the next main conflict, since she finds Luke

He wins 2/3 of his battles, and is fully confident he can best Rey and get her to follow him. That's what makes the lightsaber Force pull scene so damn good, is because she is LITERALLY taking his legacy away from him and overcoming him with it in his moment of triumph.




X :neo:
 

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
So, I have a theory about Snoke. First off, I'm gonna say I do not think he is Darth Plagueis. One of the main things that Anakin was supposed to accomplish as the chosen one was the destruction of the sith, which he achieved by killing Palpatine before dying himself. Given that, it would seem very odd to me if there was just another sith running around.

Instead, I think that Snoke is something much older. I think Snoke is from the first generation of jedi, the generation that would have lived in the first jedi temple, which I assume is where Luke was hanging out when Rey found him.

In the novelisation, Snoke comments that Kylo is the finest student he has ever taught precisely because he has both light and dark in him. Snoke speaks at length about the importance of how even the greatest sculptor needs the finest of materials to make a masterpiece. It seems to me like he is speaking from experience, except that the way the conversation unfolds leads me to think that Kylo is the first student Snoke has trained who has had these elements. That is the reason why Kylo is singled out as being his best student after all, so clearly he did not learn this from previous students. Perhaps he instead learned this lesson from himself then. Perhaps Snoke once walked in the light.

Furthermore, in the novel Aftermath, Tashu suggests that the empire should go beyond the veil of stars in search of the source of the dark side. While he was captured before such a plan could be enacted, I think its possible that maybe a faction of the empire followed this plan somewhere along the line, and went out in search of the source of the dark side. When they did, I believe they found Snoke, who would then have made them into the First Order.

Granted, I don't believe that Snoke is the literal source of the dark side. I'm not even sure if a true source would even exist for the dark side, or if it has simply always been. But what Snoke could be is the first to have discovered the dark side, the first to have fallen to it. Just as the Jedi brought the light of the force into the galaxy, Snoke brought the darkness.

I also must admit that my knowledge of Aftermath is all second hand, as I have not read it all the way through myself, so my understanding of its elements may be flawed.

Imagine eons ago, when the jedi order was young and small, its members eager to learn all they can of this force that they have discovered. They begin to experiment, and one finds a different side of the force. It corrupts him, and in time he is either banished from the order, or perhaps forced to flee after a failed scheme of some sort. This fallen jedi flees beyond known space, and there he dwells, experimenting on the force while keeping his eyes on the galaxy at large.

Then when these imperials come looking for the source of the dark side they find Snoke, or he finds them. Now, after countless years is his time to return. The jedi are dead and gone, as are the sith, and he has an army that will follow him with fanatical loyalty.

Another reason I have for thinking this may be the case is the fact that the first jedi temple was brought up in the movie at all. It leads me to believe that these movies might be getting into the origins of the jedi. Another thing this movie is getting into is the relationship between the light and the dark, and parallels between them. You can see one of these in the fact that the movie ends with Rey going to be trained by Luke, and Kylo by Snoke.

As sort of a secondary theory, this could also cover where the sith came from. While Snoke himself is not a sith imo, his fall into the darkness and subsequent actions may have caused/inspired others to fall, and then those others would go on to create the order of the sith. This is especially plausible to me since the jedi may very well have been receptive to Snoke's findings early on, before they realized how dangerous the dark side really is. By the time they did realize it the damage would have been done.

I admit this theory is a bit rough around the edges, but I find it pretty interesting to think about.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Interesting thoughts, but I see things a bit differently:
The line about the sculptor needing the finest materials is what makes me almost certain that he IS Plagueis. Plagueis was a Sith Legend literally capable of creating life from the raw Force — much like how Anakin was created, but Ben was his offspring, equally backed by both light and dark, whereas Palpatine was very much a thing of the Dark Side (and would also give us another apprentice we know of without miscellaneous backstory not covered directly in the films).

I also think that this is why Snoke is no longer using the name Darth Plagueis, is not calling himself a Sith, and why Kylo Ren hasn't taken up the mantle of being a Sith either. Palpatine was all about being a creature 100% devoted to the Dark Side, just as his apprentice Vader had completely cast off the ways of the Jedi, but I think that by Anakin bringing Balance to the Force, it set the stage for something new to arise. Just like Anakin was "killed" by Vader, or Ben was destroyed by Kylo Ren, I think that Snoke has arisen from who Plagueis once was, meaning that Darth Plagueis the Wise truly was "killed" at the hands of Darth Sidious, even if the being himself survived his grievous injuries. He would've been able to hide away in the Unknown Regions, which is where the First Order reformed their military.

In the novelization, Snoke mentions that it is sentiment that brings about the fall of the Empire and not the Light Side of the Force. Essentially I think that Snoke is attempting to prevent the rise of the Jedi, so that he can train an apprentice with the powers of the Light and Dark Sides of the Force who keeps them in balance — again, why the dichotomy of Kylo Ren and Rey is the same dichotomy between Vader and Anakin.

Luke is a Jedi, but Luke also embraced his anger and rage when fighting Vader on the second Death Star, but kept himself in check. I think that what we're looking at is a slight blurring of the lines from the prequels' Jedi and Sith into something different and less dogmatic, and as a result — more powerful as well.




X :neo:
 

Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
Mhmm, mmhmm, this is all very informative but

I haven't seen the movie

which coincides with

never having seen the original movies

but what if

nothing... I have nothing left

and then

this whole thread is just one giant spoiler tag

.....
spoilers
 
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