Star Wars: Episode 7, 8... and BEYOND!

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Well, this is interesting...


Now THAT is a twist.

Pushing aside the point that both Rey and Luke only had experience with on-planet atmospheric flight, and Luke then flies a fighter ship in space combat, whereas Rey still only flies in atmosphere up TO space after flying through the equivalent of her world's Beggar Canyon:

Luke flew a T16, which is close enough to an X-Wing that it's used as a training vehicle for it, with a tonne of help. Rey flew a freighter she previously considered scrap and hadn't flown before, that isn't even designed to be flown by one person, and outflew two fighters that had nothing else to focus on besides bringing her down.

It's not the most impressive flying in the series, not by a long shot, but it's pretty good for a first attempt in an unfamiliar craft pursued by two fighters focused solely on her.

Same thing with fighting Kylo Ren when he mentions that he'll teach her to use the Force, and she then focuses to be able to push him back and best him, because her own martial prowess isn't enough. She isn't guided into it, she's thrown into it.

In the rest of the series, going up against somebody more skilled relying on pure Force ability alone is a fast path to losing one or more limbs.

Sorry, I really shouldn't be this guy.
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
and outflew two fighters that had nothing else to focus on besides bringing her down.


Umm they had plenty to focus on. What with dog fighting in unknown territory against an opponent who knows the land extremely well, while navigating the interior of space ships with their equipment malfunctioning AND also being shot at by a damn good gunner (Finn)

Luke flew a T16, which is close enough to an X-Wing that it's used as a training vehicle for it

Rey said she has flown in Jakku's atmosphere before. What kind of vehicles do you think were available to her? She's clearly in the vicinity of trade routes that get much traffic. What transports stuff in those routes? Freighters. What's the Millennium Falcon? A Freighter.

Taking on two TIE fighters with the help of a good shot is no where near as accomplished as what Luke pulled off. I can't believe people can downplay how amazing Lukes feats of strength are to make a point lol.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Pushing aside the point that both Rey and Luke only had experience with on-planet atmospheric flight, and Luke then flies a fighter ship in space combat, whereas Rey still only flies in atmosphere up TO space after flying through the equivalent of her world's Beggar Canyon:

Luke flew a T16, which is close enough to an X-Wing that it's used as a training vehicle for it, with a tonne of help. Rey flew a freighter she previously considered scrap and hadn't flown before, that isn't even designed to be flown by one person, and outflew two fighters that had nothing else to focus on besides bringing her down.

It's not the most impressive flying in the series, not by a long shot, but it's pretty good for a first attempt in an unfamiliar craft pursued by two fighters focused solely on her.

She's flying it through an area that she's spent (basically) her entire life in, and is being chased by two fighters whose tracking is scrambled by low altitude targeting. Once the shields are up the Falcon is pretty sturdy even if the TIEs do hit it.

Additionally, it's worth noting that she didn't outfly either of the TIEs – Finn shoots them both down. The TIE pilots seem to be more than capable of keeping pace with her maneuvers, which goes further to suggest that she's a decent pilot and is pulling off good moves, but is far from anything extraordinary – especially when compared to Poe, who makes a good benchmark for maximum non-Force human potential.

Same thing with fighting Kylo Ren when he mentions that he'll teach her to use the Force, and she then focuses to be able to push him back and best him, because her own martial prowess isn't enough. She isn't guided into it, she's thrown into it.

In the rest of the series, going up against somebody more skilled relying on pure Force ability alone is a fast path to losing one or more limbs.

...but she's not relying on pure Force ability alone.

She's flighting with her well-honed melee combat skills – specifically with a quarterstaff which make her attacking form with a lightsaber far from expected combat styles. She's fighting a much more skilled, but grievously injured opponent. Her embracing her Force abilities to help her is what gives her the edge that she needs to overcome the odds that she couldn't have without them.

Essentially her fighting with only her trained melee prowess is slightly under what Kylo Ren is managing while injured (and also, he's fighting to stop her, not kill her as I've brought up before). When she embraces the Force, she barely tips the balance in her favor enough to best him.





X :neo:
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
..but she's not relying on pure Force ability alone.

She's flighting with her well-honed melee combat skills – specifically with a quarterstaff which make her attacking form with a lightsaber far from expected combat styles. She's fighting a much more skilled, but grievously injured opponent. Her embracing her Force abilities to help her is what gives her the edge that she needs to overcome the odds that she couldn't have without them.

Essentially her fighting with only her trained melee prowess is slightly under what Kylo Ren is managing while injured (and also, he's fighting to stop her, not kill her as I've brought up before). When she embraces the Force, she barely tips the balance in her favor enough to best him.

Even though the form she uses (or will hone later on) isn't afaik confirmed, her Form and Technique may outright also be a counter to Kylos as well. That fight scene has a lot of variables people tend to gloss over even if what it boils down to is two novices going at it.

I would wager Rey will probably learn form 6 or possibly even Form 3, while I'm sure Kylo Ren will most likely be a Form 5 user, especially since Anakin was also one.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I also think we could have had a pre-nod to her being force sensitive before being told she was- and this isn't a knock, I just think it would have been cool- when she's negotiating for rations from Unkar. Hell, work it all in. Have some back and forth- they obviously know each other- about the falcon, he tells her to stop looking around in it, it's his and he doesn't want her telling him how to fix it, he slaps down the rations, she protests, they argue, she says "they're worth X" authoritatively, he blinks, and agrees. She confusedly but agreeingly takes her food and goes.
Later that night, as she's eating dinner and tooling in a flight sim, BB8 happens, movie goes from there.
I like all of that but the
early nod to her having Force powers. After they went to all tye trouble of avoiding showing her wielding a lightsaber on the movie poster or in the first wave of toys, it would have been silly to blow the misdirection that early into the movie.
Well, this is interesting...

Eh, I really can't see it. With who Snoke likely is (Darth Plagueis), she almost has to be a Skywalker -- though after reading the most compelling argument for her being a Kenobi that I've yet seen, it would be nice if her mother was Obi-Wan's daughter and her dad was Luke.

Then all the coolest parallels and plot threads could be satisfied. :monster:
 

Jason Tandro

Banned
AKA
Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
Has anybody shared the Auralnauts parody's before? I just stumbled on these tonight and they are the funniest damn thing I've ever seen. Basically it re-edits and re-frames the prequel trilogy as no war, no politics, just a bunch of drug-crazed Jedi on a massive bender.








I actually find these collectively much funnier than The Ridiculous Menace.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Plus it was sitting there in the desert for god who knows how long. That much sand and sitting idle can't be good for any vehicle :monster:

Flying it through the bowels of a Star Destroyer, which no matter how big, is still considerably smaller then the half-finished, 90% open space on the inside, Death Star Lando flew it through, is still the most impressive feat of flying in the entire series to date. Specially since it's in atmosphere, which the Falcon isn't remotely intended for.

There is NO WAY that that the most impressive feat of flying in the entire series to date. It's not even the most impressive feat of flying we see in The Force Awakens – that title belongs 100% to Poe Dameron.

Insofar as the Falcon is concerned, let's actually compare Lando's Death Star II run vs. Rey's Falcon debut:

5:20 - 8:20




The space confinements that they're dealing with are near identical here, but Lando is doing the same stuff in the Falcon for a much longer period of time, whereas Rey is barely in the engine's super structure for 5 seconds before she has to bail out of a massive hole in the side of the wreckage, because there's not enough room for her to maneuver. Additionally, as this video shows: she's flying through the wreckage of an obscenely massive Super Star Destroyer, which – while still impressive – isn't that crazy – especially compared to the feats that Poe is pulling off in an X-Wing during the film.



X :neo:

Poe Dameron made great manouvers in a state of the art starfighter that's actually meant to be used in fights, Lando did his things the vacuum of space and in the only movie where the Falcon was actually in good repair. Rey did her stunts in the ancient freighter that was just barely spaceworthy with all kinds of shite modifications as you've pointed out.
 
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Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
Flying it through the bowels of a Star Destroyer, which no matter how big, is still considerably smaller then the half-finished, 90% open space on the inside, Death Star Lando flew it through, is still the most impressive feat of flying in the entire series to date. Specially since it's in atmosphere, which the Falcon isn't remotely intended for.

There is NO WAY that that the most impressive feat of flying in the entire series to date. It's not even the most impressive feat of flying we see in The Force Awakens – that title belongs 100% to Poe Dameron.

Insofar as the Falcon is concerned, let's actually compare Lando's Death Star II run vs. Rey's Falcon debut:

5:20 - 8:20




The space confinements that they're dealing with are near identical here, but Lando is doing the same stuff in the Falcon for a much longer period of time, whereas Rey is barely in the engine's super structure for 5 seconds before she has to bail out of a massive hole in the side of the wreckage, because there's not enough room for her to maneuver. Additionally, as this video shows: she's flying through the wreckage of an obscenely massive Super Star Destroyer, which – while still impressive – isn't that crazy – especially compared to the feats that Poe is pulling off in an X-Wing during the film.



X :neo:

Poe Dameron made great manouvers in a state of the art starfighter that's actually meant to be used in fights, Lando did his things the vacuum of space and in the only movie where the Falcon was actually in good repair. Rey did her stunts in the ancient freighter that was just barely spaceworthy with all kinds of shite modifications as you've pointed out.


A Freighter is still a Freighter none the less no matter how awesomely repaired it is.

By all means navigate this in the best 18 wheeler ever made :monster:

 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
That's why Rey's powers are so great. She is strong with the Schwartz
 
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Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
That's why Rey's powers are so great. She is strong with the Scwartz

Jt6Efmi.gif
:awesome:


re: the flying shit, is it just me or are those tie fighters absolutely shit for not being able to gun down a freighter within seconds? I mean they're small and should be highly manoeuvrable, compared to the Falcon, and shit. Plus they have hyperspace technology and lasers, surely they've got systems for aiming and hitting shit. I mean it's not like stormtroopers can hit anything themselves.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Flying it through the bowels of a Star Destroyer, which no matter how big, is still considerably smaller then the half-finished, 90% open space on the inside, Death Star Lando flew it through, is still the most impressive feat of flying in the entire series to date. Specially since it's in atmosphere, which the Falcon isn't remotely intended for.

There is NO WAY that that the most impressive feat of flying in the entire series to date. It's not even the most impressive feat of flying we see in The Force Awakens – that title belongs 100% to Poe Dameron.

Insofar as the Falcon is concerned, let's actually compare Lando's Death Star II run vs. Rey's Falcon debut:

5:20 - 8:20




The space confinements that they're dealing with are near identical here, but Lando is doing the same stuff in the Falcon for a much longer period of time, whereas Rey is barely in the engine's super structure for 5 seconds before she has to bail out of a massive hole in the side of the wreckage, because there's not enough room for her to maneuver. Additionally, as this video shows: she's flying through the wreckage of an obscenely massive Super Star Destroyer, which – while still impressive – isn't that crazy – especially compared to the feats that Poe is pulling off in an X-Wing during the film.

Poe Dameron made great manouvers in a state of the art starfighter that's actually meant to be used in fights, Lando did his things the vacuum of space and in the only movie where the Falcon was actually in good repair. Rey did her stunts in the ancient freighter that was just barely spaceworthy with all kinds of shite modifications as you've pointed out.

• Rey performed tight maneuvers in terrain that she knew with a ship that wasn't the best for it, but one that's also never been shown to be less capable than fighter craft – and has out-flown fighters a lot of TIEs during the series with a strong pilot.
• Those exact same maneuvers were performed by TIE pilot(s) in unknown terrain.
• Poe outflies hosts of TIE pilots in their element, and bests them all both in dogfighting and in flight.

Rey's been shown to be able to keep up with TIE pilots' capabilities – which is impressive, but Poe drops them out of the sky like they're nothing. There's no question that Poe is a vastly superior pilot, and his feats of flight blow Rey's out of the water.

I'm curious what specifically you find about Rey's piloting that makes her stand out more than that.

re: the flying shit, is it just me or are those tie fighters absolutely shit for not being able to gun down a freighter within seconds? I mean they're small and should be highly manoeuvrable, compared to the Falcon, and shit. Plus they have hyperspace technology and lasers, surely they've got systems for aiming and hitting shit. I mean it's not like stormtroopers can hit anything themselves.

A few reasons:
• The Falcon's got deflector shields (once Rey turns them on) that've been shown in the previous films to hold off a pretty decent amount of fire from TIE fighters before they start failing. That's 'cause TIEs are mostly means to intercept other fighters – hence their emphasis on speed and maneuverability and not on firepower.
• The low altitude is messing with their tracking, so they're at a disadvantage there when it comes to being able to lock on and shoot them down.
• Rey knows the terrain, which gives her an advantage, but as noted before, her piloting doesn't manage to lose either of the TIEs – because they're vastly more maneuverable than she is despite that advantage.





X :neo:
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
(Seriously Clement, why are you still doing this?)

• Rey performed tight maneuvers in terrain that she knew with a ship that wasn't the best for it, but one that's also never been shown to be less capable than fighter craft – and has out-flown fighters a lot of TIEs during the series with a strong pilot.
• Those exact same maneuvers were performed by TIE pilot(s) in unknown terrain.
• Poe outflies hosts of TIE pilots in their element, and bests them all both in dogfighting and in flight.

Rey's been shown to be able to keep up with TIE pilots' capabilities – which is impressive, but Poe drops them out of the sky like they're nothing. There's no question that Poe is a vastly superior pilot, and his feats of flight blow Rey's out of the water.

I'm curious what specifically you find about Rey's piloting that makes her stand out more than that.

Poe's hat is 'excellent pilot', it's what he does. The First Order knows his name. Of course he's a good flyer. Rey's piloting skills, with the best possible interpretation, amount to a part time job, probably not under fire. And there's question marks under even that much. Yet she's able to hold her own against two professional pilots on her first try in a totally unfamiliar craft that she considers garbage.

...but she's not relying on pure Force ability alone.

She's flighting with her well-honed melee combat skills – specifically with a quarterstaff which make her attacking form with a lightsaber far from expected combat styles. She's fighting a much more skilled, but grievously injured opponent. Her embracing her Force abilities to help her is what gives her the edge that she needs to overcome the odds that she couldn't have without them.

Essentially her fighting with only her trained melee prowess is slightly under what Kylo Ren is managing while injured (and also, he's fighting to stop her, not kill her as I've brought up before). When she embraces the Force, she barely tips the balance in her favor enough to best him.

Staff combat isn't very relevant in lightsabre combat-they're supposed to be almost impossible to use off the cuff, they're weightless, for example. And she's fighting someone above her paygrade on her very first try, where Anakin and Luke had years to train and practice before they got into their first lightsabre duel (and both lost hard the first time they tried it against a superior opponent.)

Rey said she has flown in Jakku's atmosphere before. What kind of vehicles do you think were available to her? She's clearly in the vicinity of trade routes that get much traffic. What transports stuff in those routes? Freighters. What's the Millennium Falcon? A Freighter.

Taking on two TIE fighters with the help of a good shot is no where near as accomplished as what Luke pulled off. I can't believe people can downplay how amazing Lukes feats of strength are to make a point lol.

Nobody is downplaying Luke, but he wasn't alone, had lots of help, was used to shooting small targets at speed, and didn't get into Lightsabre duels and force power contests in his first movie. For his trench run he had Biggs and Wedge acting as human shields so he could survive long enough to take the shot, and still needed Han to rescue him. None of which means he's a bad pilot.

If Rey had a job as a freight pilot, why can she still barely afford food? That's a pretty useful skill.

To toy with somebody, time needs to be on your side. Ren's grievously wounded. The Planet is exploding. Even if he doesn't consider them a threat, he should still be ending things quickly in case he passes out. If it had just been framed a little differently, I wouldn't be whining so much.

Regardless, this movie put us in a very interesting position for VIII, I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with it.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Poe's hat is 'excellent pilot', it's what he does. The First Order knows his name. Of course he's a good flyer. Rey's piloting skills, with the best possible interpretation, amount to a part time job, probably not under fire. And there's question marks under even that much. Yet she's able to hold her own against two professional pilots on her first try in a totally unfamiliar craft that she considers garbage.

She's able to fly the Millennium Falcon through familiar territory, and evade two TIE pilots, long enough for Poe to shoot them down. It's impressive for a questionably experienced pilot, but it's not anywhere near unreasonable for things that we've already seen capable pilots like Lando perform in the Falcon, let alone impressive feats of flying for the series itself – like Poe's X'Wing stunts, or even Han "let's make a landing approach at lightspeed" Solo.

My point is that, when compared to the other pilots in the film, or even what Luke and Anakin did as pilots, she's not as good as they are. Despite her flying skills being impressive, she's a vastly better mechanic.

Staff combat isn't very relevant in lightsabre combat-they're supposed to be almost impossible to use off the cuff, they're weightless, for example. And she's fighting someone above her paygrade on her very first try, where Anakin and Luke had years to train and practice before they got into their first lightsabre duel (and both lost hard the first time they tried it against a superior opponent.)

Despite the lightsaber's weightless blade, there is definitely going to be SOME synergy with her existing proficiency using a melee weapon. It's not as much as if she'd picked up an actual sword, but still – not none, because a lot of that training is the general techniques and muscles you need to fight, and being as she grew up doing it, she's far from a novice.

Additionally, neither Anakin OR Luke grew up fighting, like... at all. Luke got the shit kicked out of him by Tusken Raiders. Neither of them makes for a good comparison here. Also, neither of them fought against a grievously injured opponent in their first fight, so training or not, they're completely different scenarios.

Nobody is downplaying Luke, but he wasn't alone, had lots of help, was used to shooting small targets at speed, and didn't get into Lightsabre duels and force power contests in his first movie. For his trench run he had Biggs and Wedge acting as human shields so he could survive long enough to take the shot, and still needed Han to rescue him. None of which means he's a bad pilot.

• Luke's first significant feat using the Force was bullseyeing the thermal exhaust port on the Death Star at high speed – something he had relative experience with.
• Rey's main feat of Force use was fighting off Kylo Ren with a melee weapon – something she had relative experience with.

They're not that different.

Also, I have to mention that Poe had the same sort of cover for his trench run because of Turbolaser fire until the fighters came in. Also, Luke needed Han to save him, because Darth Vader AKA Anakin Skywalker AKA, "the best starpilot in the galaxy" was the one attempting to blow him out of the sky. And again - Rey had Finn's help because he shoots the TIEs down, she doesn't outfly them so that is also an example of teamwork, and not just her flying.

If Rey had a job as a freight pilot, why can she still barely afford food? That's a pretty useful skill.

No one's suggesting she had a job as a freight pilot. Her having flown before doens't mean that it was her job. Also, why are you so caught up on her barely affording food? Literally everyone else on Jakku there is in the same position.

To toy with somebody, time needs to be on your side. Ren's grievously wounded. The Planet is exploding. Even if he doesn't consider them a threat, he should still be ending things quickly in case he passes out. If it had just been framed a little differently, I wouldn't be whining so much.

Starkiller base isn't even starting to fall apart until midway through his battle with Rey. The oscillator doesn't take enough damage to do anything until Poe makes his run and takes it out. Time was on his side the whole time he's toying with Finn, and again – he's not trying to kill Rey, he's trying to get her to join him.


Also, some more VFX stuff:






X :neo:
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
• Rey performed tight maneuvers in terrain that she knew with a ship that wasn't the best for it, but one that's also never been shown to be less capable than fighter craft – and has out-flown fighters a lot of TIEs during the series with a strong pilot.
• Those exact same maneuvers were performed by TIE pilot(s) in unknown terrain.

Those TIE fighters are a lot smaller and probably weren't dismissed as unusable junk by their pilots a minute prior to the fight and weren't in need of midflight repairs. The movie made a point of showing the unspeakable condition it was in. Also you literally mention that TIE fighters are designed for maneuverability later in this post.

I'm curious what specifically you find about Rey's piloting that makes her stand out more than that.

flying the massive, now barely spaceworthy freighter through tiny corridors, which, for all your hyping of her familiarity with, we only see her start to scavenge the outskirts of, on foot. That is more remarkable to me then the Resistence ace fighterpilot doing well in dogfight in the open air, literally the exact thing he probably all these past years training for and gaining experiece in.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I think X's point isn't that
Rey's performance is unimpressive. It just isn't as impressive as if she were suddenly the best pilot in the Resistance and all of Poe's feats were hers.

Of course she is still going to be an impressive pilot, though. That's kind of par for the course as Force users (especially Skywalkers) go.
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Poe's hat is 'excellent pilot', it's what he does. The First Order knows his name. Of course he's a good flyer. Rey's piloting skills, with the best possible interpretation, amount to a part time job, probably not under fire. And there's question marks under even that much. Yet she's able to hold her own against two professional pilots on her first try in a totally unfamiliar craft that she considers garbage.

She's able to fly the Millennium Falcon through familiar territory, and evade two TIE pilots, long enough for Poe to shoot them down. It's impressive for a questionably experienced pilot, but it's not anywhere near unreasonable for things that we've already seen capable pilots like Lando perform in the Falcon, let alone impressive feats of flying for the series itself – like Poe's X'Wing stunts, or even Han "let's make a landing approach at lightspeed" Solo.

My point is that, when compared to the other pilots in the film, or even what Luke and Anakin did as pilots, she's not as good as they are. Despite her flying skills being impressive, she's a vastly better mechanic.
Lando and Han both owned the Falcon for years, Poe is an X-Wing pilot. They didn't pull any of those stunts their first time in a new ship. Poe tries to escape in a TIE fighter (not his favoured craft) and gets shot down. Just because she doesn't equal the best pilots in the galaxy on her first time in A dogfight doesn't mean she wasn't very impressive here. Finn's gun was frozen early in the dogfight, so she was on her own for a long stretch of it.

Staff combat isn't very relevant in lightsabre combat-they're supposed to be almost impossible to use off the cuff, they're weightless, for example. And she's fighting someone above her paygrade on her very first try, where Anakin and Luke had years to train and practice before they got into their first lightsabre duel (and both lost hard the first time they tried it against a superior opponent.)

Despite the lightsaber's weightless blade, there is definitely going to be SOME synergy with her existing proficiency using a melee weapon. It's not as much as if she'd picked up an actual sword, but still – not none, because a lot of that training is the general techniques and muscles you need to fight, and being as she grew up doing it, she's far from a novice.

Additionally, neither Anakin OR Luke grew up fighting, like... at all. Luke got the shit kicked out of him by Tusken Raiders. Neither of them makes for a good comparison here. Also, neither of them fought against a grievously injured opponent in their first fight, so training or not, they're completely different scenarios.
That would actually be something of a hindrance, she'd have the wrong reflexes, have to unlearn habits.

They are relevant because Lightsabres are in most of the canon not a weapon you just pick up and use, they take years of training to even be somewhat good with.



• Luke's first significant feat using the Force was bullseyeing the thermal exhaust port on the Death Star at high speed – something he had relative experience with.
• Rey's main feat of Force use was fighting off Kylo Ren with a melee weapon – something she had relative experience with.

They're not that different.

Also, I have to mention that Poe had the same sort of cover for his trench run because of Turbolaser fire until the fighters came in. Also, Luke needed Han to save him, because Darth Vader AKA Anakin Skywalker AKA, "the best starpilot in the galaxy" was the one attempting to blow him out of the sky. And again - Rey had Finn's help because he shoots the TIEs down, she doesn't outfly them so that is also an example of teamwork, and not just her flying.
She also flips Kylo's mind trick back on him, uses a mind trick on a Stormtrooper, and telekinetically summons a sword, tricks that until now have been reserved for people years into training/practice.

Back in A New Hope, Turbolasers were basically useless against X-wings because they were too fast, 'We'll have to take them ship to ship'.
If Rey had a job as a freight pilot, why can she still barely afford food? That's a pretty useful skill.

No one's suggesting she had a job as a freight pilot. Her having flown before doens't mean that it was her job. Also, why are you so caught up on her barely affording food? Literally everyone else on Jakku there is in the same position.

I was trying to give her the most possible flight time. I keep coming back to the food because spacecraft are probably more expensive than food, therefore Rey probably doesn't own one. The village doesn't seem like it has friends that let her joyride, so the most likely place for flight experience is some kind of part time job.
To toy with somebody, time needs to be on your side. Ren's grievously wounded. The Planet is exploding. Even if he doesn't consider them a threat, he should still be ending things quickly in case he passes out. If it had just been framed a little differently, I wouldn't be whining so much.

Starkiller base isn't even starting to fall apart until midway through his battle with Rey. The oscillator doesn't take enough damage to do anything until Poe makes his run and takes it out. Time was on his side the whole time he's toying with Finn, and again – he's not trying to kill Rey, he's trying to get her to join him.

But he's badly hurt. There's a few different interpretations of him pounding his side, but I think all of them have to do with him struggling to keep fighting at all, regardless of how unskilled his opposition is. That's not the time to toy with anyone.

Also, some more VFX stuff:






X :neo:

Sorry messed up my reply again.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Lando and Han both owned the Falcon for years, Poe is an X-Wing pilot. They didn't pull any of those stunts their first time in a new ship. Poe tries to escape in a TIE fighter (not his favoured craft) and gets shot down. Just because she doesn't equal the best pilots in the galaxy on her first time in A dogfight doesn't mean she wasn't very impressive here. Finn's gun was frozen early in the dogfight, so she was on her own for a long stretch of it.

Sorry, but I just have to say that Poe manages to evade fire long enough to take out several key turbolaser batteries and nearly escapes from a Resurgent-Class Star Destroyer in a TIE FIGHTER before getting taken out by their cannons. That's crazy.

Like Tres said, I wasn't saying that what she did wasn't an impressive feat for her. I'm saying that it's not NEARLY as ridiculously unimaginable as people seem to keep implying that it is with these comparisons. People in Star Wars pull off this sort of thing with limited experience without it being even remotely controversial, and I don't see why Rey keeps getting flak for it.


That would actually be something of a hindrance, she'd have the wrong reflexes, have to unlearn habits.

They are relevant because Lightsabres are in most of the canon not a weapon you just pick up and use, they take years of training to even be somewhat good with.

Well, let me just put this to rest definitively with two quotes from the Visual Dictionary of The Force Awakens, then:
• "Rey has learned self-defense as a matter of necessity. With her battered but durable staff, she has perfected thrusting, swinging, and striking techniques to keep away unruly thugs."
• "Rey's fighting skill with her staff translates well into other short-ranged melee weapons, including those she has never wielded before."


She also flips Kylo's mind trick back on him, uses a mind trick on a Stormtrooper, and telekinetically summons a sword, tricks that until now have been reserved for people years into training/practice.

Back in A New Hope, Turbolasers were basically useless against X-wings because they were too fast, 'We'll have to take them ship to ship'.

She manages to learn and utilize Kylo Ren's manipulation techniques after having been exposed to them heavily. He reads her mind in the forest enough to know that she's seen the map that leads to Luke while keeping her held in place, and then also just Force knocks her unconscious (all while holding her immobile). When she's exposed to it again for a prolonged period in the torture/interrogation chamber and starts pushing back, she realizes that she can resist and – manages to do the same thing to him. She uses the same thing to get into the Stormtrooper's head to control him. Additionally, Luke telekinetically pulls the lightsaber to save himself on Hoth, which is before he receives any form of formal Force training from Yoda so that's not exactly true either.

Lastly, while the Rebel's ships were small enough to evader the initial turbolaser fire (since the Death Star was made as a battle station to hold off against larger ships), when the fighters are confined to a trench, that fire is still dangerous because it's such a narrow window.

But he's badly hurt. There's a few different interpretations of him pounding his side, but I think all of them have to do with him struggling to keep fighting at all, regardless of how unskilled his opposition is. That's not the time to toy with anyone.

As I said before, everything up until Rey starts to push him back is still him 100% on the road to triumph. The path to the Dark Side is all about pain, and this confrontation was his final test (since he's yet to complete his training), so he's living in it. His toying with Finn doesn't matter or come at any real cost, because he absolutely destroys him. He's also not toying with Rey, he's holding her off to convince her to join him rather than attempting to kill her. There's nothing that he's doing there that's unreasonable.



X :neo:
 
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