Star Wars: Episode 7, 8... and BEYOND!

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
The point I was making was that the example you used isn't just a case of "look at this sudden and blatant metaphor" but was the final piece of a continual set of visual storytelling that had been going on the entire time that made it have a more significant context.

Insofar as your other point, the original trilogy was also in a position where the first Death Star's destruction of a planet was just a cold, matter-of-fact military operation and a demonstration of power. They weren't even hitting a Rebel target. They were just using it as a convenient demonstration, unlike
The First Order, whose military weapon Starkiller base emerges from the Unknown Regions and with its reveal, literally wipes the current reformed government of the New Republic off of the map, and criples the main bulk of their military fleet in one attack. The Galactic Empire never cut the head off of a government like that, because Palpatine took it over through subversion and playing both sides to his own ends.

You're looking at a rising military force looking to reclaim its dignity and previous power, vs. the initial rise and presence of the Galactic Empire. If anything, the space Nazi comparisons are vastly more apropos for this than they would for the previous films, so I don't really see what's wrong with clearly drawing those comparisons in presentation. There's a lot more more to that speech than just making sure you know the bad guys are "space Nazis" and Hux's speech — while obviously invoking that parallel, is also making a speech for a first strike that's wholly unlike anything we've before — both in scale and context. It makes sense to use a different WWII comparison than Star Wars had previously done, since so much of Star Wars' military conflicts are like WWII films already.

tl;dr - I fail to see why using a reference to Hitler's Nazi speeches was an issue, since it's tonally appropriate to the situation, and shows the difference in the extreme fervor of the uprising First Order as compared to the military devotion of the already-dominant Galactic Empire.




X :neo:
 

Hisako

消えないひさ&#
AKA
Satsu, BRIAN BLESSED, MIGHTY AND WISE Junpei Iori: Ace Detective, Maccaffrickstonson von Lichtenstafford Frabenschnaben, Polite Krogan, Robert Baratheon
Tonally the character itself and the speech he gives just comes at odds with the rest of The First Order. I feel Hux comes off as a massive caricature especially in contrast with more complex characters like Kylo Ren. He out-hams Snoke through that one scene alone and I think it's completely overdone. The big reveal is supposed to be massively shocking and powerful, but unfortunately (like the end scene of the film) I'm just taken out of the moment by what feels like mishandled moments.

I have zero problems with these themes or intentions, it's the way they're handled.
 

Lex

Administrator
Wow, it's pretty cool to know that the scene on Maz's planet was filmed here in the UK :D
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Also, can we talk about how beautiful that final duel in the forest with all the snow is?

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The practical lighting from the sabers, the sparks when they clash, the steam when the sabers evaporate the snow, I love the atmosphere in this scene.
 

Hisako

消えないひさ&#
AKA
Satsu, BRIAN BLESSED, MIGHTY AND WISE Junpei Iori: Ace Detective, Maccaffrickstonson von Lichtenstafford Frabenschnaben, Polite Krogan, Robert Baratheon
I felt pretty critical of the way the fights were handled on my first viewing (though I actually loved the choreography), because the framing and positioning caught me off-guard.

I warmed up to that sort of framing pretty quickly on my second watch (it's very reminiscent of Episode VI) and I think the overall setting of that particular scene is super cool. I do wish it could have benefited from fewer fast cuts in the earlier sections of those sequences (I found it hard to follow the choreography between
Finn and Kylo Ren
), because there's some super-cool stuff in those fights.
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
TIL they used a mix of green and blue screens, I thought they'd switched to fully green ones already. But I guess it makes sense in darker scenes, I can imagine some of the color of the screens bleeds onto the actors.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Visual Effects featurette (spoilers): https://vid.me/MFXP

Thanks, I was looking for this earlier.

Also, can we talk about how beautiful that final duel in the forest with all the snow is?

mDm17Lh.gif


The practical lighting from the sabers, the sparks when they clash, the steam when the sabers evaporate the snow, I love the atmosphere in this scene.

Also:
I have to mention that their prop lightsabers that they use in the raw versions are SO fucking cool.
I'm going to see this again tomorrow night now. It only took me two weeks into 2016 to get 'round to it. *^^*


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X :neo:
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I noticed a few things this time:

• When chatting with each other on the Falcon after escaping the TIE Fighters, when asking how she did it, Rey tells Finn, "I've flown ships before, but I've never left the planet" which puts herat least solidly at the same level of flight experience as Luke's shenanigans in a T-16.
• When Finn joins up with the crew who're gonna take him to the Outer Rim, he's abandoning Rey and that's what sets off her Force vision/Anakin's lightsaber calling to her. This is also the last time that Rey sees him before he shows up to rescue her on Starkiller Base — making his abandoning & then returning to get her all the more significant to her.
• Kylo Ren doesn't get the yellowish Sith tint to his eyes at all when murdering Han Solo, or striking down Finn either. Notably, Supreme Leader Snoke also lacks this ocular discolouration, furthering the "not Sith" thing that they've got going on.

Having seen it in 2D for the first time now, I have to say how VERY much this movie is worth seeing in 3D instead of its flat format counterpart.




X :neo:
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Having seen it in 2D for the first time now, I have to say how VERY much this movie is worth seeing in 3D instead of its flat format counterpart.

Having seen it in 2D the second time, I once again cannot stress how much I want 3D to die forever.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Whaaaat?! I'm curious why you say that. I genuinely don't understand the dislike of 3D at all — especially when it's well executed like this, motion-sickness or whatever physical issues some folk have notwithstanding. (Granted, I see a movie about every other week, and if it is in 3D, I see it in 3D, so I probably have more of a taste and experience with it than most folks).

The scene where Kylo Ren freezes Poe's blaster shot in mid-air is nowhere NEAR as awesome in 2D. In 3D you can actually tell the depth it has as it's sitting there quivering, not to mention the bits inside the superstructures of the Star Destroyers on Jakku being able to be immersed in the sheer depth of scale there. Not to mention things like Rey's Force vision that just wrap around you and peel away.

The only scenes that really stand out as potentially gimmicky would be Rey loading her quarterstaff onto her speeder, or the bow show of the Finalizer sitting in space in all its enormous glory seeming like a panel in a pop-up book, and I still love them to bits.

Essentially, it's done brilliantly as immersion and I love it for that.




X :neo:
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Because added depth doesn't make up for a blurrier picture and brightness/contrast issues. It is an inherently inferior image that somehow costs more than a regular showing.
Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't withhold 2D presentations until 3 - 4 weeks into a movie's run. =/
 

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
I can't stand 3d either, for the same reasons already listed, plus I get the absolute worst headaches trying to watch movies in 3d.
 

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
On the subject of 3D moives... I'm very nearsighted, like I can't see clearly six inches past my face. So I'm hyper aware of how "deep" a given image is and the whole "it's 3D inside the edges of the movie screen" throws my sense of vision off. Parts of it are supposed to be blurry, but they aren't... or something along those lines...

I'm also really, really good at visualizing things in 3D my head. So my head is telling me that "logically" the 3D image being shown is really 2D and I'm in the middle of an optical illusion for 2+ hours. Oh, and I've developed a habit of "undoing" optical illusions when I see them, which is really fun when they're not movies. Meanwhile, another part of my brain is trying to tell the technical side of my brain to shut up so that I can dissect what's actually going on in the film. It's a lot less mental hassle to just go see it in 2D where it's just an image as opposed to an image that's trying to trick my brain...
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
@Tets: Not to derail the thread too far, but what's the 3D technology your theaters use? The RealD ones we have here have a contrast ratio of 2000:1, and I don't ever have issues with image blurring either (but I also have a tendency not to sit on the far edges of theaters either). Not to mention that we have 2D showings available at the same release window.

tl;dr, I don't think that the theaters I go to have any of the issues you're having.

@The Engineer: I'm just as nearsighted as you are, actually, and don't have that issue at all, and the camera focus for what should and shouldn't be blurry is very seldom an issue, unless it isn't executed well (which IS noticeable). The other bits might be an exposure thing, though, since I mentioned I see films like this pretty much constantly.




X :neo:
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
I generally find the majority of films extremely lackluster in 3D , but I did watch TFA at a CinemarkXD showing and I have to say it was pretty nice tbh.

There are other things that also just help blend it all in and feel a tad bit more immersive. Like every time they were in a planning room the holograph planning junk really popped but not in a "huehue 3dfilm" kind of way, especially one shot where hologram was layered on over Leia's face looked really nice and well done.

The problem with 3D in general is really that it's half assed and not thought out as an ambient and immersive feature. It's just used almost in a pandering way and like 99% of the time the film is shot in 2D with non-3D gimmicks in mind. Don;t get me wrong I don't hate the generic 3D moments when shit flies at the screen, but when thats all your 3D movie has in it I'm definitely going to be butthurt I paid for a premium experience and got a relic gimmick from like 60 years ago.

To date the only 3D movies I enjoyed were Avatar (obviously lol), Thor (the fly through scene as Asgard is introduced was beautiful) ,Pacific Rim and TFA.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Pretty much every word of Gabriel's post is gospel (The Gospel According to Gabe)? As someone who typically hates 3D, it's because it's usually a shitty gimmick. There are movies it adds something to, though, like "Gravity" or this one.

Also, like X said, if the theatre is using high-end enough technology, you don't get a blurry mess. I'm lucky enough, I guess, to live within reasonable driving distance of multiple IMAX 3D cinemas, and this movie looks fantastic on those.

Again, I say this as someone who usually hates 3D.
 

Kuroto

Pro Adventurer
I've seen this film in both 3D and 2D and for me there wasn't that much difference. The only part I liked better in 3D was the scavenging scene in the beginning, but otherwise nothing really stricked me as special. The thing also is that I get very quickly used to the 3D effect and after the beginning 3D doesn't really seem that special anymore. And 3D also costs more than 2D so usually it isn't really worth it.
 

Ami

Playing All The Stuff!
AKA
Amizon, Commander Shepard, Ellie, Rinoa Heartilly, Xena, Clara Oswald, Gamora, Lana Kane, Tifa Lockhart, Jodie Holmes, Chloe Price.
This is going to take sometime to post, but holy shit, the wait for this was TOTALLY WORTH IT. I finally went to see it with my uncle (tl;dr kept asking my mum for weeks if she and my little brother wanted to come, she kept messing around and sodded it by going with uncle instead) and I can say that I wasn't disappointed.

Firstly, getting this bloody elephant out of the window: Han Solo CANNOT be dead. I refuse to accept this, it's Harrison freakin' Ford! Not believing this until his body is found and given a proper burial. My Han Solo fangirl is obviously in denial, but I want the concrete proof first, kthxbai.

Rey and Finn were fantastic. I was more invested in Rey, as I (and perhaps a lot of others, I haven't read general reactions to the film yet) found her the more intriguing character. I'm pretty sure we all want to know who her family is. I've thought that she might be related to the Skywalker's even before seeing the film, but that would be just too predictable. As for Finn himself, I liked the conflict he was having and glad he chose the right choice in the end.

I think I missed Warwick Davis. Where was he again? Bet it was a blink-and-you-miss-it cameo.

The overall story was pretty good. I didn't think I would, but I was also quite invested in Kylo Ren. Someone purposely accidentally spoilt who he was for me on Facebook at the time of the film coming out. However, even saying this, that revelation of him being Han and Leia's son was still as effective and powerful if I hadn't known that information. Of course, there's no going back for him after he KILLED HIS OWN FREAKING FATHER.

On a sidenote, I was talking with my uncle in the car on the way home and I was like, "Yeah sure, his mum will welcome him back. 'You killed your dad, but it's fine! Welcome home!'" No going back for this dude. :monster:

And then that small, but significant cameo from Luke at the end. Wow. Just wow.

There's a lot more I want to discuss about the film once I've let it all sink in, but those were the main burning issues on my mind. It felt a lot longer than what it was and did think to myself when it would end, but soon cast that out of my mind because it's the epic return!

Wonder how episode VIII is going to turn out. Episode VII has left it so open and they could go anywhere.

If you want the tl;r version:

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Welcome back, Star Wars. A true return to form. :awesome:
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
Firstly, getting this bloody elephant out of the window: Han Solo CANNOT be dead. I refuse to accept this, it's Harrison freakin' Ford! Not believing this until his body is found and given a proper burial. My Han Solo fangirl is obviously in denial, but I want the concrete proof first, kthxbai.

I've been told that lightsaber to the chest is pretty lethal, but, you don't actually see him die - avoiding that scene and falling down an infinite wossname to an unknown destination is pretty tropey (think Gandalf, who turned full badass whilst falling because it's fucking Gandalf)

I'm pretty sure we all want to know who her family is. I've thought that she might be related to the Skywalker's even before seeing the film, but that would be just too predictable.

And yet, there's a lot of things in the movie that just seem to point to predictable outcomes, I just know it:

* Rey is Kylo Ren's sister or (more of a stretch) Luke's daughter
* Solo isn't dead
* Kylo either becomes one of the good guys in the second movie, or dies in a dramatic show of self-sacrifice / change of heart in the third, just like his grandpa did.
* BB-8 and R2D2 end up fucking and spawn the most kawaii little robots you've ever seen.

I think I missed Warwick Davis. Where was he again? Bet it was a blink-and-you-miss-it cameo.

IMDB lists him as "Wollivan", so yeah, probably a cameo because I don't recall this guy having much of a role in the movie.
 

Lex

Administrator
Hold the fucking teléfonica,

Yop said:
* Rey is Kylo Ren's sister or (more of a stretch) Luke's daughter

How in the living mother of jenova is it more of a stretch that she's Luke's daughter? I'm not saying I definitely believe she is, but it's for sure the most likely scenario. Han and Leia interact with her all throughout the damn movie, you don't think there'd be at least a hint of recognition on their faces, or at least some significant eye movement if they were talking to their long lost child? lmao
 

Ami

Playing All The Stuff!
AKA
Amizon, Commander Shepard, Ellie, Rinoa Heartilly, Xena, Clara Oswald, Gamora, Lana Kane, Tifa Lockhart, Jodie Holmes, Chloe Price.
I've been told that lightsaber to the chest is pretty lethal, but, you don't actually see him die - avoiding that scene and falling down an infinite wossname to an unknown destination is pretty tropey (think Gandalf, who turned full badass whilst falling because it's fucking Gandalf)
Exactly! I hope we get answers and/or closure in the next fillm.

And yet, there's a lot of things in the movie that just seem to point to predictable outcomes, I just know it:

* Rey is Kylo Ren's sister or (more of a stretch) Luke's daughter
* Solo isn't dead
* Kylo either becomes one of the good guys in the second movie, or dies in a dramatic show of self-sacrifice / change of heart in the third, just like his grandpa did.
* BB-8 and R2D2 end up fucking and spawn the most kawaii little robots you've ever seen.
* Leaning more towards the second, although I wouldn't be surprised if she were related to another Jedi.
* Agreed!
* I get this feeling he'll sacrifice himself to allow the others to escape, depending on the situation.
* NEW OTP! <3
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
Hold the fucking teléfonica,

Yop said:
* Rey is Kylo Ren's sister or (more of a stretch) Luke's daughter

How in the living mother of jenova is it more of a stretch that she's Luke's daughter? I'm not saying I definitely believe she is, but it's for sure the most likely scenario. Han and Leia interact with her all throughout the damn movie, you don't think there'd be at least a hint of recognition on their faces, or at least some significant eye movement if they were talking to their long lost child? lmao

Based purely on what we see in the movies tbf; we know Han and Leia fucked and had at least one child, and that was coming ever since the original trilogy; not so for Luke, who got cockblocked once he found out Leia was his sister. From the movie I get the vibe he went full abstinent jedi master (none of the jedi masters in all the movies seem to have spawned), etc. I'm just basing it on probability, :monster:. But, you make a compelling argument for the rest.
 
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