Star Wars: Episode 7, 8... and BEYOND!

[Ghost X]

Whether porgs were originally intended to have the presence they ended up having or not, I have read their inclusion was perhaps originally because the makers of the film didn't want to waste time and resources editting out the irl birds on that island. I do not have any recollection of any porg scene where they might have put digital make-up on the pre-existing irl bird though.

 

[Ite]

Whether porgs were originally intended to have the presence they ended up having or not, I have read their inclusion was perhaps originally because the makers of the film didn't want to waste time and resources editting out the irl birds on that island. I do not have any recollection of any porg scene where they might have put digital make-up on the pre-existing irl bird though.

I just read that the island they filmed on is actually a puffin reserve, so I'm sure those motherfuckers were everywhere.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Whether porgs were originally intended to have the presence they ended up having or not, I have read their inclusion was perhaps originally because the makers of the film didn't want to waste time and resources editting out the irl birds on that island. I do not have any recollection of any porg scene where they might have put digital make-up on the pre-existing irl bird though.

I just read that the island they filmed on is actually a puffin reserve, so I'm sure those motherfuckers were everywhere.

This is actually a fact. The porgs were added specifically because it was easier to create creatures and put them in than to digitally remove them in every shot. (Plus, I'm sure that the cast & crew had a mixed relationship with the Puffins being all over an irremovable, and some of that comes through in how they're portrayed throughout the film).

Also, I should be finishing out my holy fuck tl;dr write-up later today.




X

 

[Lulcielid]

Came from watching The Last Jedi, pretty good stuff. I'd rate it 4.5/5

The movie could have been a bit more streamlined but the thematic narrative makes this issue beareable. Adama Driver and Daisy Riddley were fantastic in their respective roles, both are definetely the best thing that has come out of this new trillogy.

Overall I liked The Force Awakens slightly more, my overall ranking of the films so far:

1. The Force Awakens
2. The Last Jedi
3. Revenge of The Sith
4. The Empire Strikes Back
5. Phantom Menace
6. A New Hope
7. Attack of The Clones
8. Return of The Jedi
9. Rogue One

Porgs remind me of ewoks and I fucking hate ewoks

I don't understand the hate, unlike the ewoks, the porgs never had an importance in the plot nor had a dedicated subplot (like capturing the heroes and later help them fight The Empire) for them in the movie.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Also, this bit from Mark Hamill about his character is worth reading: https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/945784443964309505





X

 

[Lulcielid]

As far as box offices goes, while still being #1 on the box office, The Last Jedi is having a bigger box office drop than The Force Awakens did as well having the worst drop-off ever for a Star Wars film.

 

[looneymoon]

Porgs remind me of ewoks and I fucking hate ewoks

I don't understand the hate, unlike the ewoks, the porgs never had an importance in the plot nor had a dedicated subplot (like capturing the heroes and later help them fight The Empire) for them in the movie.

my significant other has taken to shoving porg plushies in my face while making the sound of a dying llama and I HATE IT

that and their very existence triggers repressed memories that make me relive my childhood fear of ewoks

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Alright. I'm finally done with my tl;dr about goddamn everything in The Last Jedi. It's taken me the better part of two full days of doing nothing but writing. (I've been working on this for just about 12 hours today alone). Here's the absolutely most tl;dr thing that I've ever done.

http://x-soldier.kinja.com/unpacking-addressing-damn-near-everything-in-the-last-1821569372

If there're any nitpicky points of stuff that I can still address but didn't, let me know, and I'll slowly update it. I'm planning on breaking up the text wall with some pictures at some point, but for now, I'm tired as fuck of typing.





X

 

[The G'randiest' Daddy]

Yo! That was a great read! You're preaching to the choir here since I already agreed with you on pretty much everything, but I like that you took it all so much deeper than I had, and gave me both more to think about, as well as some specific arguments that I hadn't thought of - specifically (for example) the argument about

Spoiler

hyperspace ramming being mostly impossible due to the enemy obliterating your "weapon", thereby necessitating a very specific set of circumstances, which this instance had.

 

[Cthulhu]

TBF re the hyperspace thing,

Spoiler

it's a deus ex machina move thing like they have in pretty much all science-fiction movies; somehow Star Wars feels like a show where yes they have loads of tech, but at the same time it's like the characters and parties in there haven't a fucking clue what they're doing. I mean how come they're still flying with pilots in ships that can't be hit by laser cannons (and why are the laser cannons not instant hits) instead of drones? Why do they still bother with shooting at each other and shit instead of just pulling out the bigger guns? WTF is this about an invulnerable shield? Why is there all this bollocks about close-range man-to-man fights when they've got the technology to turn planets into cannons and / or make their own planets? (how long did the Death Star take to build anyway? Given there's not that much time between ep 4 and 6 and only about what, 30? years between 6 and 7, they can apparently build a functional DS2 in a couple years at most, and dig out a whole planet within 30).

Anyway Star Trek is worse in that regard, on the one side they've got warp speed and teleportation technology and some huge fucking deus ex machina magic they come up with on the spot, on the other they still fuck about a lot. That new series with the magic instant teleportation shit isn't helping either.

but yeah uh, storytelling reasons. Things like The Martian use less magic at least.

 

[Shademp]

One thing just dawned on me. Remember how, in The Force Awakens, it was spoken of as an unlikely feat for the Millennium Falcon to leave hyperspace in the precise coordinates so to end up on the other side of the shields on that one First Order planet?

Spoiler: The Last Jedi spoiler

Should not Holdo's feat of hyperspacin' in-and-out into an enemy ship also be considered a very difficult maneuver to pull off? Especially in light of how the plan with the Millennium Falcon in the previous movie was commented on as an insane plan, although they pulled it off.

 

[Ite]

Spoiler: The lightspd thing

If Han's maneuver from TFA didn't result in the destruction of the Falcon (via collision with the shield) then it shouldn't be possible for the Raddus to collide with the Supremacy. If we're being consistent, it should have phased right through it.

As for the necessity of human pilots: droids cannot interact with the Force. That's why a clone army is such an advantageous purchase. Re: death star - it is a crazy weapon that was built, rebuilt, then outlawed (presumably) then one-upped by Starkiller. It would be like asking why we still send troops across the world to engage in warfare when we have nukes.

Now, in the real world, we have drones with human pilots. Don't know how that fits in with the metaphor, but SW always existed in kind of a heightened reality WWII.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Spoiler: The lightspd thing

If Han's maneuver from TFA didn't result in the destruction of the Falcon (via collision with the shield) then it shouldn't be possible for the Raddus to collide with the Supremacy. If we're being consistent, it should have phased right through it.

Spoiler

Unless I misunderstood, I think Shad was suggesting that Holdo may have been adjusting and re-adjusting the coordinates so as to make the ship phase in and out of hyperspace across the span of the jump.

As for the necessity of human pilots: droids cannot interact with the Force. That's why a clone army is such an advantageous purchase.

I'm tired, so I must be having a brain fart. Why is it important for pilots to be able to interact with the Force again?

 

[Shademp]

I have honestly already forgotten

Spoiler: TLJ

if Holdo's maneuver involved entering hyperspace or if it was "simply" a lightspeed thing.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

They're two aspects of talking about the same thing. Lightspeed is the speed at which one travels while in hyperspace while hyperspace is the physical space one occupies while traveling at lightspeed.

 

[Lulcielid]

Spoiler: Something I noticed on a certain scene involving the death of a certain character

When Rey comes at Snoke with Kylo's lightsaber and Snoke flings her away, Kylo's saber flies out of Rey's hands, lands at Kylo's feet, and spins around until it comes to a stop. Kylo sees this and then looks up at Snoke. This is what gave Kylo the idea to spin the saber that's sitting next to Snoke to deliver the death blow.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

TBF re the hyperspace thing,

Spoiler

it's a deus ex machina move thing like they have in pretty much all science-fiction movies; somehow Star Wars feels like a show where yes they have loads of tech, but at the same time it's like the characters and parties in there haven't a fucking clue what they're doing. I mean how come they're still flying with pilots in ships that can't be hit by laser cannons (and why are the laser cannons not instant hits) instead of drones? Why do they still bother with shooting at each other and shit instead of just pulling out the bigger guns? WTF is this about an invulnerable shield? Why is there all this bollocks about close-range man-to-man fights when they've got the technology to turn planets into cannons and / or make their own planets? (how long did the Death Star take to build anyway? Given there's not that much time between ep 4 and 6 and only about what, 30? years between 6 and 7, they can apparently build a functional DS2 in a couple years at most, and dig out a whole planet within 30).

Spoiler

1) Space Fantasy ≠ Science Fiction. Since it's WWII Swords & Sorcery in space, that means that it loosely operates on similar rules to our own universe, but it gets to operate on its own internal rules of physics any time the rule of cool is involved. (TIE Engine sounds in a vacuum, Bank turns and dogfighting in space, etc.)
2) Most weapons in Star Wars behave like Blasters (super-heated bolts of plasma, rather than like instantaneous beams of light amplified by stimulated emission of radiation)
3) There're no invulnerable shields, just ranges where various weapons are ineffective.

One thing just dawned on me. Remember how, in The Force Awakens, it was spoken of as an unlikely feat for the Millennium Falcon to leave hyperspace in the precise coordinates so to end up on the other side of the shields on that one First Order planet?

Spoiler: The Last Jedi spoiler

Should not Holdo's feat of hyperspacin' in-and-out into an enemy ship also be considered a very difficult maneuver to pull off? Especially in light of how the plan with the Millennium Falcon in the previous movie was commented on as an insane plan, although they pulled it off.

Spoiler

She wasn't in-and-out of Hyperspace. She positioned herself so that she hit the Supremacy just before she made it into Hyperspace, and thus obliterated the Raddus on impact.

Hera shows sort of what this'd look like when she safely makes a Jump through a Hangar bay in Rebels (2:10) It's worth noting that she's low-key an even more talented fighter pilot than Poe, especially to pull this off without dying.

Spoiler: The lightspd thing

If Han's maneuver from TFA didn't result in the destruction of the Falcon (via collision with the shield) then it shouldn't be possible for the Raddus to collide with the Supremacy. If we're being consistent, it should have phased right through it.

As for the necessity of human pilots: droids cannot interact with the Force. That's why a clone army is such an advantageous purchase. Re: death star - it is a crazy weapon that was built, rebuilt, then outlawed (presumably) then one-upped by Starkiller. It would be like asking why we still send troops across the world to engage in warfare when we have nukes.

Now, in the real world, we have drones with human pilots. Don't know how that fits in with the metaphor, but SW always existed in kind of a heightened reality WWII.

Spoiler

It's stated in TFA that Starkiller Base's planetary shield has a fractional refresh-rate that can be bypassed in Hyperspace. The difficulty in that maneuver was dropping out of Hyperspace past the shield, but still close enough to the planet to not just crash into the ground and die, while also staying close enough to the ground to not be detected by their scanners. Han & Chewie are exceptional for their ability to make INCREDIBLY precise jumps in the Falcon – especially when it comes to EXITING Hyperspace like that, and pull of feats that'd be impossible for most other pilots, and most other ships are just not designed to be that agile specifically for Hyperspace jumping.

Spot on on the other two points.

X

 

[Shademp]

Spoiler: TLJ big spoiler

Not a whole lot of data in the video to support the theory that Snoke is still alive, but I certainly hope he is. Otherwise Snoke will feel like nothing but a waste and an anti-climax. Really, how forgiving I am of Episode 8 will entirely depend on how good Episode 9 turns out to be.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

You should read my tl;dr and see if you feel differently about his role in the film (it now has lots of images in it to help break up the text wall and make it an easier read).



Personally, I feel the opposite, because

Spoiler

Return of the Jedi got to have its cake and eat it too by putting Palpatine in, so that they could redeem the series big bad guy, but still also kill the big bad guy at the same time. I'm really wanting Episode IX not to go that route, and properly let Ben be THE big bad, because after killing his master he definitely deserves to be.

X

 

[Shademp]

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

 

[Tetsujin]

Spoiler

I don't even need a rewatch to have come around on the Snoke thing tbh, the more I think about it the more it's like "Palpatine 2.0, who fucking cares? Ooo, look at me waxing poetic about the dark side in an ominous throne room in a fucking bath robe, how original."
Putting Kylo Ren in the position of big bad was the more interesting choice. I wasn't sure about Ren being the big bad at first but I think it could be really interesting coming back to the characters again in IX after an appropriate time skip where they had some time to really settle into their new roles; Kylo as the new Supreme Leader and Rey as the heir to Luke's and the Jedi's legacy.

 

[Shademp]

Spoiler

Funny thing is that I initially approved of Snoke's importance, mystique and Palpatine-2.0-ness being subverted. I thought it was the smart thing to do because no revelation could live up to the hype surrounding the mystery of Snoke's origins. A part of me also enjoyed, and still sort-of enjoys, the idea of Kylo Ren instead being the main biggest baddy.

But now that some time has passed I can't ignore how unbelievable it is that Snoke, with all his powers, would be killed so easily. Not only being blind to Kylo's true thoughts, but also not being aware of the lightsaber at his side. They made Snoke too powerful to make the scenario believable. I was apologetic to this moment because I really, really wanted Kylo to do something RIGHT. In hindsight I can't remain so apologetic.

Thus I also remember that while certainly no origin story could live up to the mystery of Snoke, I still feel robbed. I want to know SOMETHING about Snoke, what he is, his species etc. I want a proper pay-off after he has been built up to be such a big, powerful player.

Right now, I feel that the twist of killing Snoke this early takes away more than it adds.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Personally, what I would love the most is if, after Episode IX wraps up this part of the story, we could get Sebastian Stan to play young Luke, and we got to cover the entirety of Luke's Jedi Academy in a live-action series. That'd let us get a really deep look into Luke & Snoke's relationships before the period of the new trilogy.

Like... we all know it ends with tragedy, but it's one of those things that feels like it's far too important of a story to tell in any other medium than live-action Star Wars, and I really need to have Sebastian Stan as young Luke.




X

 

[Tetsujin]

Spoiler

I think it's believable, Darth Plagueis was powerful and he was simply killed in his sleep like a chump. Palpatine was really powerful and Vader just powerlifted him and threw him over a railing.
Which is kind of hilarious to be honest.

Those dark side users are always overconfident and like smelling their own bullshit but then get stabbed in the back and never even saw it coming. It's a tradition.

As far as backstory goes no doubt the EU will fill in all the blanks for Snoke. One could argue that should have been in the movie but the question is what purpose it would have served the story? It would have just been there to satisfy fans' thirst for lore but it's irrelevant to the immediate story and to the characters and their arcs.

Palpatine had no backstory given in the original trilogy either. We didn't even know his name, the words "Sith Lord" were never even mentioned.
All that were details left for a time when it actually became relevant to the story told (that is, the prequels).

 

[Cthulhu]

Spoiler

So liek, this movie increased the power level of both sides of the Force by idk, 2 or more compared to the original trilogy; effortless telekinesis and split second lightning bolts, a relatively untrained force user lifting up a few tonnes of rock at the end of the movie like it ain't no thang compared to Luke managing his ship with a lot of effort, remote projection, that kinda thing. Will they just go over 9000 with this?

I wouldn't mind tbf.