Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
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Lego Holiday Special coming to D+ on Nov 17, 2020.
Star Wars: Episode 7, 8... and BEYOND!
- Thread starter Charles Xavier
- Start date
The Twilight Mexican
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Strangelove
AI Researcher
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here's me fixing all of rise of skywalker
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
The universe is too vast for perfect continuity to be realistic. The funniest one has got to be the super pacifistic, foolishly
underarmed New Republic which is also buying up enough weapons to support a massive arms trade in Canto Bight.
underarmed New Republic which is also buying up enough weapons to support a massive arms trade in Canto Bight.
The Twilight Mexican
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In case there was any remaining doubt that Episode IX was slapped together haphazardly:
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainme...-daisy-ridley-rise-of-skywalker-alternate.amp
I ... I can't facepalm hard enough.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainme...-daisy-ridley-rise-of-skywalker-alternate.amp
I ... I can't facepalm hard enough.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Imagine how much trouble could have been avoided if we just had crystal clear origins back in TFA. There was never any real need to make her origins a dramatic reveal in the first place, having that hanging over it hamstrung the films.
The Twilight Mexican
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I agree, in so far as revisiting it in Episode IX -- and making it damn near the focus of that final installment -- undercut any sense of meaningful progress.
Of course, I'm of the heretical opinion that Episodes VII and VIII were fantastic overall, and that the way Rey's origins were handled in TLJ was brilliant.
But you are absolutely right that there was never any need for the mystery angle to begin with, especially if the mundane origin had been allowed to stick.
The Twilight Mexican
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It suggests a lack of passion, vision, and creative throughput. Basically, the sense one gets from watching the movie.
Edit: To be clear, by no means am I laying all those sins solely at JJ's feet ...
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
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- Lulcy
I don't buy in this mindset of "pre-planing" one's writing as an indication of "passion, vision, and creative throughput". On a related topic your movie could have "passion, vision, and creative throughput" but that's not a guarantee of quality (i.e: Zack Snyder movies).It suggests a lack of passion, vision, and creative throughput. Basically, the sense one gets from watching the movie.
Edit: To be clear, by no means am I laying all those sins solely at JJ's feet ...
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
And here I thought I was the heretic.
Honestly, I think it suggests enormous stress at the prospect of having to write Ep 9 under time pressure while attempting to please the unpleasable fanbase, while juggling demands from producers and stakeholders. Production is complicated to begin with, it's very easy for media to spin the normal creative process as a chaotic mess (and they do).
Honestly, I think it suggests enormous stress at the prospect of having to write Ep 9 under time pressure while attempting to please the unpleasable fanbase, while juggling demands from producers and stakeholders. Production is complicated to begin with, it's very easy for media to spin the normal creative process as a chaotic mess (and they do).
My TFA era initial theory was 'nobody' and my sarcastic theory was that she was a clone of Palpatine. It never made any sense for Rey to be of a notable lineage, because nobody we know would just dump their kid on a scavenger death world and forget about her.
Rey being nobody is fine. Rey being nobody as a big dramatic reveal makes no sense at all, it's very self centred of her,
super insulting to Finn and ignores that basically every Jedi was of no particular bloodline. It's meta, it's talking to the audience, because there's no reason Rey should be upset at learning that she's not of a notable bloodline (said bloodlines are notable because they are the main characters of a movie franchise, which they should not have knowledge of in universe.) But we've had that conversation like six times.
Honestly, the fanbase went nuts with speculation post TFA, which is the root of all our sorrows, because the filmmakers felt they had to live up to that expectation.
Rey being nobody is fine. Rey being nobody as a big dramatic reveal makes no sense at all, it's very self centred of her,
super insulting to Finn and ignores that basically every Jedi was of no particular bloodline. It's meta, it's talking to the audience, because there's no reason Rey should be upset at learning that she's not of a notable bloodline (said bloodlines are notable because they are the main characters of a movie franchise, which they should not have knowledge of in universe.) But we've had that conversation like six times.
Honestly, the fanbase went nuts with speculation post TFA, which is the root of all our sorrows, because the filmmakers felt they had to live up to that expectation.
The Twilight Mexican
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You're not wrong that the passion can be there regardless (see: FFVII), but the lack of the other two is somewhat inherent in a lack of deliberate direction. That can still result in a happy accident greater than the sum of its parts (see: FFVII), but generally such an approach isn't a good sign.
At the very least, a lack of unifying vision is an inarguably accurate assessment under such circumstances (see again: FFVII), and I think a lack of passion and/or vision from the executive side of matters is as equally inarguable. =\
Ouch. But fair. He's hit and miss for me as well.
Sorry if below contain some spoilers somehow...
Just a personal thought on the logic...
When original trilogy the empire draining the galaxy resources to build the ultimate Death Star 1 and 2... how much sense it make in the sequel trilogy, their remaining faction manage to gather even more resources to build the much larger star killer base and even the entire advance army in the last episode... hmm...
On the Jedi vs sith section, while the all powerful force is really fascinating, in the original the force wielder still need to follow the general rule of physics and nature mostly... but the sequel trilogy also demonstrated force abilities way beyond that... (I did watch all the anime series of clone wars and rebels btw so I can already comprehend quite a lot of those force abilities... maybe now due to the movies are represented by real human, that it triggered more unrealistic feelings as they amplified all these abilities with more modern visual effects). Still, final battle scene where the whole first order army being destroyed instantly by the force lightning is just too... can’t find good words to describe...
Anyway, despite all that, I did enjoy watching the movies nonetheless.... don’t think too much... disregards all logics and just go along the blast.. lol
Just a personal thought on the logic...
When original trilogy the empire draining the galaxy resources to build the ultimate Death Star 1 and 2... how much sense it make in the sequel trilogy, their remaining faction manage to gather even more resources to build the much larger star killer base and even the entire advance army in the last episode... hmm...
On the Jedi vs sith section, while the all powerful force is really fascinating, in the original the force wielder still need to follow the general rule of physics and nature mostly... but the sequel trilogy also demonstrated force abilities way beyond that... (I did watch all the anime series of clone wars and rebels btw so I can already comprehend quite a lot of those force abilities... maybe now due to the movies are represented by real human, that it triggered more unrealistic feelings as they amplified all these abilities with more modern visual effects). Still, final battle scene where the whole first order army being destroyed instantly by the force lightning is just too... can’t find good words to describe...
Anyway, despite all that, I did enjoy watching the movies nonetheless.... don’t think too much... disregards all logics and just go along the blast.. lol
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
I have a hard time rating TROS. I had read the leaks partly because I didn't believe they were true, so watching it I was like 'oh, wow, it's true' five minutes in and couldn't take things seriously enough to analyse properly.
I am suspicious of everything I hear about what happened on any set ever since that 'Saved in the Edit' video (and to an extent Justice League). We rarely get told the full story. It's very difficult to actually figure out who is responsible for what on a production this big, it's kind of how corporate structures work.Even if there was a plan, it would have gotten wrecked when Carrie died. But my tentative take is something like this.
JJ never planned to come back, he wanted to leave things open for whoever was next, which is a good thing in some ways. But TFA didn't do some necessary worldbuilding, leaving TLJ with very difficult problems to solve. TLJ tried to address these, but couldn't quite manage it, and left some new problems for 9 of its own.
Some media is trying to spin this as a JJ v Rian thing, but it's more complicated than that.
Carrie died, CT's script didn't work out, and JJ came in late and had to try to salvage things, but he had a lot of work to do and not enough time to do it, because he never expected to come back for 9, so ended up with a mad scramble to get it over the line in time for the due date.
Regardless, I hope Daisy doesn't get in trouble for this. Anyone see that John Boyega interview in GQ?
I am suspicious of everything I hear about what happened on any set ever since that 'Saved in the Edit' video (and to an extent Justice League). We rarely get told the full story. It's very difficult to actually figure out who is responsible for what on a production this big, it's kind of how corporate structures work.Even if there was a plan, it would have gotten wrecked when Carrie died. But my tentative take is something like this.
JJ never planned to come back, he wanted to leave things open for whoever was next, which is a good thing in some ways. But TFA didn't do some necessary worldbuilding, leaving TLJ with very difficult problems to solve. TLJ tried to address these, but couldn't quite manage it, and left some new problems for 9 of its own.
Some media is trying to spin this as a JJ v Rian thing, but it's more complicated than that.
Carrie died, CT's script didn't work out, and JJ came in late and had to try to salvage things, but he had a lot of work to do and not enough time to do it, because he never expected to come back for 9, so ended up with a mad scramble to get it over the line in time for the due date.
Regardless, I hope Daisy doesn't get in trouble for this. Anyone see that John Boyega interview in GQ?
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
A lot of good first time watchthroughs of all nine films on youtube, if anyone has time to kill. Nice to see perspectives without fandom baggage sometimes.
The Twilight Mexican
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This is a pretty cool and insightful observation about Obi-Wan's High Ground:
https://www.esquire.com/entertainme...-3-obi-wan-kenobi-anakin-skywalker-explained/
https://www.esquire.com/entertainme...-3-obi-wan-kenobi-anakin-skywalker-explained/
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
The Star Wars Fandom: Taking Lines Overly Literally Since 1977.
Anakin is checkmated, anything he can do ends in 'Force Pushed into Lava.' Even another Force push lock won't save him, as Obi will get thrown backwards into solid ground while he will get pushed into lava. So his choices are 'desperate leap to better ground' or 'surrender'.
Obi's talking in shorthand rather than explaining in a paragraph.
Edit: I don't mean to present the above as The One True Way, but the fandom obsesses over that line so much. There's massive differences in context, between Mustafar and Naboo, the High Ground is not some absolute advantage in every situation.
Anakin is checkmated, anything he can do ends in 'Force Pushed into Lava.' Even another Force push lock won't save him, as Obi will get thrown backwards into solid ground while he will get pushed into lava. So his choices are 'desperate leap to better ground' or 'surrender'.
Obi's talking in shorthand rather than explaining in a paragraph.
Edit: I don't mean to present the above as The One True Way, but the fandom obsesses over that line so much. There's massive differences in context, between Mustafar and Naboo, the High Ground is not some absolute advantage in every situation.
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The Twilight Mexican
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How so? He could have just floated somewhere else and got off on solid ground there.
He chose to stupidly attack from a position of unnecessary vulnerability because he was so absurdly overly confident in his own power.Oh, absolutely. I've never understood why it spawned a meme. The point was never that The High Ground magically grants an automatic win -- the point was Anakin was acting like Sephiroth.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Can he float off somewhere else without being Force pushed into lava? Obi's not going to just stand and watch.
But herein lies the problem in these conversations, because we likely have different conceptions of how telekinetic powers work, and it's not like it's a real thing that can be tested.
My standing assumption is that the characters know what they're talking about unless there's some reason to think otherwise. If the advantage isn't real, then Obi Wan made a terrible mistake (allowing Anakin to escape or rejoin the fight on his own terms with no means to pursue) and is just acting like it's a winning move. Anakin would know that, he's arrogant, not stupid. If he was in a position to just go somewhere else, he would have, and why would Obi weaken his own position for no reason?
Edit: Do we know if they can actually control those platform things?
But herein lies the problem in these conversations, because we likely have different conceptions of how telekinetic powers work, and it's not like it's a real thing that can be tested.
My standing assumption is that the characters know what they're talking about unless there's some reason to think otherwise. If the advantage isn't real, then Obi Wan made a terrible mistake (allowing Anakin to escape or rejoin the fight on his own terms with no means to pursue) and is just acting like it's a winning move. Anakin would know that, he's arrogant, not stupid. If he was in a position to just go somewhere else, he would have, and why would Obi weaken his own position for no reason?
Edit: Do we know if they can actually control those platform things?
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The Twilight Mexican
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They appear to be telekinetically controlling them throughout the fight. Obi-Wan doesn't have his platform begin floating down the river until Anakin advances on him; they drift around obstacles separately before veering back towards one another; Anakin has the platform float back to the position along the riverbank where Obi-Wan jumped; etc.
The real question is: was anyone able to control those Mario-esque red barriers in TPM?
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
I thought they were droids that were steering themselves? Must watch it again.
We answer the big questions here.
Seems unlikely. Maul tries to penetrate them but can't, Obi obviously wants to rejoin his master but can't, and Qui would want help from his apprentice rather than fighting alone.
It's just your standard safety conscious GFFA architecture.
On the other hand, nothing is more Mario than a precarious fight on collapsing infrastructure above lava. It's one of the best fight scenes in cinema.
We answer the big questions here.
Seems unlikely. Maul tries to penetrate them but can't, Obi obviously wants to rejoin his master but can't, and Qui would want help from his apprentice rather than fighting alone.
It's just your standard safety conscious GFFA architecture.
On the other hand, nothing is more Mario than a precarious fight on collapsing infrastructure above lava. It's one of the best fight scenes in cinema.
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
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- Lulcy
TLJ is the gift that keeps on giving.