Charles Xavier
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Points taken, but my questions stil remain.
EDIT: Any idea if Johnson is going to amp up the lightsaber choreography in 'The Last Jedi', or stick to what Abrams did for 'The Force Awakens'?
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Star Wars: Episode 7, 8... and BEYOND!
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Points taken, but my questions stil remain.
EDIT: Any idea if Johnson is going to amp up the lightsaber choreography in 'The Last Jedi', or stick to what Abrams did for 'The Force Awakens'?
Charles Xavier
Pro Adventurer
Oh and apparently the novelization of 'The Last Jedi' has been in stores since, gasp, 2013. 
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Harbinger O Great Justice
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Aside from the fact that we don't really see the Force being used to push/move things/people until The Empire Strikes back, the additional material has done a good job of establishing those differences as having some reasons to them.
The episode Twin Suns of Star Wars Rebels actually built up some framework for Obi-Wan's change. It shows a difference in both Obi-Wan's overall attitude towards conflict –
even with old enemies, as well as the changes to his combat style in being more focused on countering specific attacks and less-so on movement.
Additionally, Vader is an old-man-with-extensive-damage-to-his-body-who's-mostly-grafted-on-robot-parts-now, so the more acrobatic feats are a bit less within the realm of expectation for him, and as Rogue One shows, he's more of just an unstoppable wall of darkness with a lightsaber once he's all suited up, rather than the more acrobatic Jedi he was in his youth.
When you put those two things together, the duel that they have is much more expected.
Insofar as the combat in The Last Jedi, here's what has been established and I'd expect to see.
• Kylo Ren is just INSANELY powerful with his Force abilities: Freezing both people and blaster bolts in mid-air are things we didn't even see with the Prequel-Era Jedi. He's very showy with his lightsaber, so I'd expect plenty of fanciful stuff from him, HOWEVER his emphasis is also VERY focused on just raw power drawn from rage.
• Rey's being taught by Luke, who's also trained a now-destroyed Jedi academy, so I'd expect there to be a level of discipline in her combat that he never had (being a Yoda dropout himself), in addition to her already being very capable with the staff she had back on Jakku.
We're likely not going to retain the Forms from the Jedi Era that have more fanciful swinging sabers around in an almost dancing form-like combat. Again – while lightsaber combat was trained, the Jedi were primarily meant to be be peacekeepers and much like tournament-like martial arts there is an expectation of form and function on both sides that no longer exists after the fall of the Jedi & Sith.
Again, I'm going to point to Rebels (specifically Season 2) as a great point of reference here, because if you look at the difference in the fighting styles and capabilities of Kanan (was partially trained at the Academy) & Ezra (trained all second-hand) as compared to Ahsoka (fully trained at the academy and fought for years with the Jedi), there's a distinct difference, but they strike a good balance between the prequels and the original films that I'd expect them to continue in the new movies.
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Clement Rage
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Aside from being older, neither of them are going all out. Obi Wan is keeping Vader occupied while the others escape, Vader is drawing it out of your classic Sith vindictiveness. Obi-Wan then throws the fight because he knows Luke won't leave without him if he's alive.
No preference as to lightsabre styles, as long as it fits the scene. Star wars has always been brilliant at storytelling through combat. I'm really wondering how they'll get to show off their skills, though, as there aren't many lightsabre users for them to test themselves on, they both have to re-establish their new skills somehow.
Still super conflicted about TLJ. If they pull it off it'll be awesome, but that's going to be sooo hard to do.
No preference as to lightsabre styles, as long as it fits the scene. Star wars has always been brilliant at storytelling through combat. I'm really wondering how they'll get to show off their skills, though, as there aren't many lightsabre users for them to test themselves on, they both have to re-establish their new skills somehow.
Still super conflicted about TLJ. If they pull it off it'll be awesome, but that's going to be sooo hard to do.
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Harbinger O Great Justice
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Well, we can see Rey & Luke sparring, and additionally we still don't know what the Knights of Ren are all about (though if I had to guess, they might be based off of Vader's Inquisitors, since we know that one of the early Knights of Ren designs was used for one of Rebels Inquisitors) so I think that there's a good possibility for combat in addition to First Order Troops like TR-8R being equipped with lightsaber-blocking CQC gear. Not to mention whatever Snoke has in store, though I wouldn't expect really amazing saber combat gives how twisted and contorted he's left by his injuries. There're still plenty of opportunities aside from deflecting blaster bolts though.
Curious what ya mean by that.
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Hisako
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I think contextually it makes more sense, even though I found TFA's direction in lightsaber combat mostly average compared to every film except for ANH. The Old Republic is supposed to be this golden age of Jedi power and knowledge leading up to the militarisation of what is supposed to be a peacekeeping force, so the Jedi of that era are supposed to be far and away more skilled at using their laser murder swords.
Every lightsaber user in the original trilogy is either long past their prime or a relative novice, and it never seemed like they were really focused on making Luke a master swordsman, just making sure he had a decent enough command of the Force so he wouldn't die like a punk against the Sith.
So when Luke is the last living Jedi Master, he probably isn't going to be turning the next chosen ones into master swordsmen either
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Episode IX is set to release on May 24, 2019.
Perfect birthday present! (Also, I might be in Sweden then).
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Perfect birthday present! (Also, I might be in Sweden then).
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Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Well, we can see Rey & Luke sparring, and additionally we still don't know what the Knights of Ren are all about (though if I had to guess, they might be based off of Vader's Inquisitors, since we know that one of the early Knights of Ren designs was used for one of Rebels Inquisitors) so I think that there's a good possibility for combat in addition to First Order Troops like TR-8R being equipped with lightsaber-blocking CQC gear. Not to mention whatever Snoke has in store, though I wouldn't expect really amazing saber combat gives how twisted and contorted he's left by his injuries. There're still plenty of opportunities aside from deflecting blaster bolts though.
Curious what ya mean by that.
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Well, after TFA, I'm in the bizarre position of still needing to be sold on the First Order as a threat.
They blew up a star system, killed a major character, and put another one into a coma. But Ren and Phasma were comprehensively defeated, Starkiller Base was destroyed, and the difference between the FO and the empire is that it doesn't have infinite resources.
And... they don't really have anyone left to prove themselves against. The Republic doesn't have a fleet anymore, there aren't many lightsabre users around with a pedigree that would impress anyone if our PCs beat them. They're a weird combination of underdog and favourite.
Sure, Ren will be levelled up next time, but so will Rey, so they'll need to give us a reason to be more afraid of him than last time. One possible way would be for Rey's training to be incomplete, and have her lose the next fight, but then all the fans scream 'Oh, wow, the empire struck back, who could have predicted that?'
One option might be mirrored arcs, Ren climbing to the top of the Dark Side opposition, while Rey does something similar her side. I'm hoping Luke brought some apprentices with him into exile.
There are ways out of it, but they're also kind of written into a corner right now, I think. Not impossible to get out of, but not easy either.
Hope I'm wrong.
And... they don't really have anyone left to prove themselves against. The Republic doesn't have a fleet anymore, there aren't many lightsabre users around with a pedigree that would impress anyone if our PCs beat them. They're a weird combination of underdog and favourite.
Sure, Ren will be levelled up next time, but so will Rey, so they'll need to give us a reason to be more afraid of him than last time. One possible way would be for Rey's training to be incomplete, and have her lose the next fight, but then all the fans scream 'Oh, wow, the empire struck back, who could have predicted that?'
One option might be mirrored arcs, Ren climbing to the top of the Dark Side opposition, while Rey does something similar her side. I'm hoping Luke brought some apprentices with him into exile.
There are ways out of it, but they're also kind of written into a corner right now, I think. Not impossible to get out of, but not easy either.
Hope I'm wrong.
Charles Xavier
Pro Adventurer
Episode IX is set to release on May 24, 2019.
Perfect birthday present! (Also, I might be in Sweden then).
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Well, that's earlier than expected. Thoughts on Colin Trevorrow directing? I was remarkably surprised how entertaining 'Jurassic World' was. Never watched his other films: 'The Book of Henry', 'Safety Guard', 'Gary: Under Crisis', 'Reality Show' and 'Homebase'.
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I gave Jurassic world 3.5/5 stars apparently, though I just don't remember it being that good. I'd like Star Wars movies to be ranking at least a 4/5 stars, so colour me pessimistic, but naturally, time will tell, because I'll probably definitely see the movie at the cinemas anyway.
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Hopefully this'll help:
Starkiller base was really the opening blitzkrieg against the New Republic. We have NO idea what the extent of their forces are hiding in the Unknown regions, because they’ve been slowly amassing out there essentially ever since the Empire fell.
Aside from that, you've gotta look at the big picture:
Both sides big planetary bases were destroyed, but only ONE of the sides’ seats of power was broken by that. Hosnian Prime’s destruction also wiped out all of the leaders of the New Republic and tossed all of their ability to gather any allied worlds together into complete disarray. The First Order is still VERY much organized behind Snoke, and their ability to connect with their allies outside of the Unknown Regions now can’t effectively be impeded by the New Republic. The First Order definitely has the advantage, even with the loss of Starkiller base.
The extent of the military damage to both sides isn’t completely clear at the moment either. The Resistance has some forces, and while the bulk of the New Republic’s military would’ve been wiped out in the Starkiller Base strike, they’d’ve had some scattered forces in other systems. The issue there is that they’re specifically limited AND they don’t have a central government or anything to unify and command them aside from attempting to individually gather them under the banner of the Resistance, which is going to take a good deal of effort.
The First Order basically set off their signal flare to all of their allies, and are moving in now, so everyone who was secretly backing and assisting them can now do so openly. That means that beyond just their forces in the Unknown Region, what the First Order still has at their disposal in the main Galactic regions isn’t fully known to the Resistance. They have whatever Snoke is keeping, the Knights of Ren, and any unknown numbers of forces in the Unknown Regions, and support within the main Galaxy.
Add on to that all of the other forces like the Hutts and other non-aligned factions, bounty hunters, smugglers, and mercenary groups that’re going to heavily profit off of the main government getting destroyed by working for profit to the highest bidder. With the New Republic shattered, the Resistance are going to be scraping for funding and stability, while the First Order can leverage their comparative stability. It’s clear that the First Order is very much a threat to the state that the Galaxy is in at the end of The Force Awakens.
Aside from that, you've gotta look at the big picture:
Both sides big planetary bases were destroyed, but only ONE of the sides’ seats of power was broken by that. Hosnian Prime’s destruction also wiped out all of the leaders of the New Republic and tossed all of their ability to gather any allied worlds together into complete disarray. The First Order is still VERY much organized behind Snoke, and their ability to connect with their allies outside of the Unknown Regions now can’t effectively be impeded by the New Republic. The First Order definitely has the advantage, even with the loss of Starkiller base.
The extent of the military damage to both sides isn’t completely clear at the moment either. The Resistance has some forces, and while the bulk of the New Republic’s military would’ve been wiped out in the Starkiller Base strike, they’d’ve had some scattered forces in other systems. The issue there is that they’re specifically limited AND they don’t have a central government or anything to unify and command them aside from attempting to individually gather them under the banner of the Resistance, which is going to take a good deal of effort.
The First Order basically set off their signal flare to all of their allies, and are moving in now, so everyone who was secretly backing and assisting them can now do so openly. That means that beyond just their forces in the Unknown Region, what the First Order still has at their disposal in the main Galactic regions isn’t fully known to the Resistance. They have whatever Snoke is keeping, the Knights of Ren, and any unknown numbers of forces in the Unknown Regions, and support within the main Galaxy.
Add on to that all of the other forces like the Hutts and other non-aligned factions, bounty hunters, smugglers, and mercenary groups that’re going to heavily profit off of the main government getting destroyed by working for profit to the highest bidder. With the New Republic shattered, the Resistance are going to be scraping for funding and stability, while the First Order can leverage their comparative stability. It’s clear that the First Order is very much a threat to the state that the Galaxy is in at the end of The Force Awakens.
Haven't seen his other stuff either, but I'll probably get 'round ta that after The Last Jedi, since I'm gradually watching/rewatching Rian Johnson's films at present, along with some other war films he's mentioned being thematically inspirational.
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Clement Rage
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Sort of, but it leaves TLJ with a lot of work to do in cramming establishing all that into the next movie.
I'm not dismissing it out of hand, I'll watch the movie, but they've quite a task ahead of them. We'll see.
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Harbinger O Great Justice
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Tbqh, I don't think that that will take "cramming" to establish any of that, as TFA had to establish the creation of The First Order and the whole basis of what'd happened in the last 30 years. Establishing the current state of things after that is a cakewalk by comparison.
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Lulcielid
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Never watched any of his films but I never use the director(s) as measuring stick of the final product quality.
At the very least I believe he must be competent and skillful enough guy if Disney decided to put him at the forefront of a multimillon project from one the biggest IP in the world.
Charles Xavier
Pro Adventurer
Next question. Something that's been rattling my brain, makes little to no sense to me and seriously needs explaining. Why was Anakin able to defeat Darth Tyranus when Obi-Wan couldn't, yet Obi-Wan was able to defeat Anakin when again, he couldn't beat Tyranus? The fights for your reference:
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Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
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- Lulcy
Training, I guess. There's like a 4 years gap between Episode II and Episode III, isn't it?
Charles Xavier
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Well, Obi-Wan still gets his ass handed to him in ROTS. Btw, I think I posted the wrong vid. I was meant to show the Obi-Wan/Anakin fight.
Edit: fixed it.
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Harbinger O Great Justice
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The very tl;dr for you on those fights is the different lightsaber combat forms they're trained in and how they counter different other forms. It's a rock-paper-scissors type thing. Lightsaber training isn't just a strict tier system of being better than one good person makes you better than everyone below them, too.
Also, on the note of Colin Trevorrow, I just saw a trailer for the upcoming film "The Book of Henry" of his that very much gives a wider scope of his skill as a director: https://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19630
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Carlie
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https://twitter.com/VanityFair/status/866957427085910016
Gorgeous covers from Vanity Fair of the cast! (On mobile, cba to embed).
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Gorgeous covers from Vanity Fair of the cast! (On mobile, cba to embed).
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