Starcraft II

[Hisako]

I searched and cannot find a specific thread for Starcraft 2.

Oh well. Going through the motions here:
http://us.starcraft2.com/ Although for the life of me I have no idea why they've separated the sites via region (Australia has its own SCII site)

Blah blah blah check out the battle reports, etc.





As the owner of a copy of the beta (read: ) and playing it through a bit; I theorise thus -

It's oooookaaayyyy. Chatting with one of my other friends, I came to the conclusion that it's Starcraft, but it's not Starcraft. If that's a little confusing, I say that like how Fallout 3 was Fallout, but at the same time not Fallout. It's really, really, different from the original, both good and bad ways.

I don't want to make a total idiot out of myself by saying things that could be potentially totally wrong, but I'll just lay out my thoughts: the visuals.

Hell yes, the game looks fantastic, the environments are lush and vibrant and the light that glints off the slick creep and the armor of a Marine, the bright electric blue that accompanies warping in a Toss building, yeah, it's all nice and pretty and everything. But yeah, that's what it is. Nice and pretty. It sounds like a really petty thing to say, but visually it feels like nothing more than WarCraft III on crack. And if I wanted that, I'd just go and play WarCraft III.

One of the reasons why I prefer StarCraft over WarCraft (I could churn out a whole bunch of reasons why Blizzard's generic predictable space-epic feels more fun to play and watch than Blizzard's generic predictable high-fantasy, but this isn't the thread for that) is the visuals. Comparing the two franchises, space marines and bugs just seemed so much darker and edgier (funny how people always use those two words at the same time) than the orcs and elves setting for WarCraft. I mean, that's fine. StarCraft has its own image, WarCraft has its own image. My issue lies in the fact that, ingame, Starcraft II got the WarCraft treatment. The units just seem a little cartoony, just a little bit more out of scale with their buildings and between land and air units (although this is probably a trick of my eyes and more to do with my bias in this area) and most of all... actually no that's just about it.

I mean, it probably sounds stupid but yes, if I had to choose a four-color scheme for Starcraft II, it would be gun-metal grey, dirty-carapace-brown, blood stain and MUZZLE FLASH. And maybe perhaps psi-blade-blue.
And I would return the units to their original sizes on screen.

The cutscenes I've seen online though, I am not going to slag that. They look fan-fucking-tastic.

The gameplay itself? Well there's not much to complain about here except for the phrase "it's very different". Yeah there are all these old units and all these new units, but it's not quite so simple. Some new units are simply cosmetic replacements of original units with little nifty things added on (read: Stalker) and some old units have been completely 'rebalanced' (read: Zealot). As a Protoss player I haven't completely worked out the kinks with the Protoss let alone all three races, obviously, but when I tried getting a Zealot (pre-Charge ofc) to chase a Drone and it could barely catch up after twenty seconds of running around, there was a little voice in my head that whispered "THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE" that I couldn't shake.

I exaggerate, of course, I didn't time the time it took for the zealot to catch up, but my point is in this question: What is a zealot when it's slow? TRICK QUESTION IT'S NOT A ZEALOT

The additions of variable bot difficulty and choosing your own color are welcome, but that's just carrying over from WarCraft and that doesn't really earn points. It's just me who hasn't had enough practice, but they're fucking lying to themselves if they say easy bot is easy. It's like the original Starcraft bots on crack (ie. TWICE THE ZEALOT RUSH or TWICE THE ZERGLING RUSH or TWICE THE TERRAN MARINE/MARAUDER WALL-IN). God forbid how the hard bots work.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the changes made to the game have been pretty drastic. I get little pinpricks of nostalgia from various things, like the exact recycled sounds of warping stuff in and YOU REQUIAR MOAR MINERALS or YOU MUSHT CONSTRUCKT ADDISHUNAL PAILONS (but I hope the voice doing "sssspawn mooore overlooordssss" isn't Kerrigan's because that is a fucking pansy voice compared to the Overminds'), and a lot of unit costs remain the same because Blizzard at the very least acknowledges not everything has to be changed for the sake of changing it.
It's just that the changes that have been made were for first appearances, quite jarring, despite me having seen all the gameplay videos in the first place. I'll get used to the changes, though.

Also the music in the beta isn't fantastic. It's perfect ambient music, but that's about it. Nothing memorable that quite warrants a second performance or second album by Eminence Orchestra.


tl;dr, it's a fun game. I can't wait to play the single-player, that's the most exciting thing for me - to see where Kerrigan, Raynor and Zeratul end up. I might even want to tempt death and play the multi-player regularly. Given I've been playing a beta, it's obviously subject to little changes here and there that could be welcome. But the beta is more unlike the original than it is like. And it has far from convinced me to take the first game off my computer shelf.



Discuss, post pictures of "COOL STORY BRO" like you guys usually do or whatever.

 

[ForceStealer]

I still think the way they're selling it (in three parts) is pretty transparent and despicable. It encourages me to buy one and download the others at best. Or say "screw you for even trying to pull that" and dl all of them.

I was always a Command & Conquer guy before Blizzard games (though mainly Red Alert, I didn't play much of the main series). I definitely enjoy me some starcraft it just always seemed so clunky to me compared to C&C. I HATED only being able to select 10 units or whatever it was. But I know I'm in the minority on that.

Interesting that you say how different it is...I read what yo said and all, but how different can it really be? It's a Blizzard RTS, do they vary that much (that's not a slight)? I was really just expecting a graphical overhaul of Starcraft, so maybe its good that they managed to update it?
Of course, do you want to change a game that's been phenomenally popular for 12 years?

 

[Hisako]

See, that's exactly the thing. Of course, it's still a great Blizzard RTS, no doubt about it. And there are all these little things that really build on the game, such as increasing the unit count you can select at one time (At least I think you can select more than 12 at once, I've never really had to group any more than that during plays =P)

I remember when people played through the first game and there were all the damage types and stuff but they weren't posted all over the unit screens. What Blizzard has done for Starcraft 2 is that they've taken leafs (well I could argue the whole fucking book) out of the book from WarCraft 3 and put it into Starcraft 2. Also, there's actually a little helpful units screen that puts out the full stats of every unit there can possibly be in the game but it reads to be simply a complex scissors-paper-rock of this-unit-type-is-stronger-than-this-unit-type-than-this-one. It's obviously not that simple, of course, but that's the feeling I get from it.

And yeah, that's the whole point of my argument. Do you want to change a game that is probably one of the most balanced (gameplay-wise)? Blizzard certainly did. And it's a much better game than I make it out to be, but I don't think they've hit the nail quite on the head.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Well I could /rant about a lot of things, but as far as some of the visual stuff it's still in Beta, and I think that they're focusing more on multiplayer balance right now rather than final unit polish (lots will be done for the singleplayer in that). I've got my Beta key, but haven't really gotten to get a good look at the game yet.

Also the whole 3 games, is really 1 game + 2 expansions, and the reasons stated for doing so I am fully a fan of.

A) One game. 1/3rd of the missions (~10 per race). Condensed story with Protoss, Terran, & Zerg.
B) One game. All missions. Comes out WAY far from now.
C) 3 games, each with a heavy singleplayer. Terran nao, rest later.


That being said, I'm hoping singleplayer will be a dream, because there's so many things that seem to be done right. I just finished reading Heaven's Devils, which was quite good, and got me amped for the events.

The only thing I'm still /sad about is Kerrigan's VA being replaced. I'm still holding my breath over what the new VA sounds like, because I haven't heard much aside from a short clip. (Even if she's awesome, I'll still miss the nostalgia of old Kerrigan, but thank god they at least brought back Raynor's old VA). I wrote an editorial on it before the change was official. It shows how she still sounded exactly the same (among other things).

• Old Kerrigan: Glynnis Talken. 1:48 (BlizzCon '08)
• New Kerrigan: Tricia Helfer. 1:48 (BlizzCon '09)


X

 

[Interslicery]

it seems like everyone on the internet has a beta key, and that pisses me off.

 

[Cthulhu]

Don't worry, I don't. I could get one through some sweepstakes, but I was too late. Another chance tomorrow, but I'll probably miss it again, .

Also, I must've played Starcraft 1 front to back three times (original + expansion), just because it was so awesome. I never got to playing it online though (also considering I had a copied version, which we had rented from the library back when and copied in one of the first CD burners). And I fear to do so, too. Although for this one, I might just try it, .

The cinematics look awesome though. I really hope they can put down the atmosphere right for the game itself. I think Starcraft was the first game whose story was actually interesting, where the factions had actual personality and big differences between them and, not to mention (and in contrast to C&C), a continuous story, instead of one whose outcome changes based on which campaign you play.

I don't doubt they can repeat that for Starcraft II. Not sure about the graphics though, but I had the same opinion on Warcraft III compared to 2 - even though that one were 2D cartoons or somesuch. Warcraft III just felt a lot more comical.

Durr. I know the Overmind's first words by heart. Shame he got pwned.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Can't wait for SC2. I used to staff on a SC fansite (well two atually, but they were cousin sites really), and though I'm not as die-hard a fan as I used to be I'm still interested.

I really hated following the development though, SC2 caused such a broken base its ridiculous. I'd see a thread complaining about how SC2 is too different and right below it someone else complaining its too similar. Meh. SC2 will *not* suck - Blizzard just doesn't make bad games. But if its superior to the original or not, YMMV.

 

[crack]

My cousins only watch the Starcraft channel in Korea. They're pretty psyched about SCII; I'm still disappointed there's no LAN, but the graphics look great and the gampleay looks fun.

 

[Hisako]

I really hated following the development though, SC2 caused such a broken base its ridiculous. I'd see a thread complaining about how SC2 is too different and right below it someone else complaining its too similar. Meh. SC2 will *not* suck - Blizzard just doesn't make bad games. But if its superior to the original or not, YMMV.

See, this is my point - the game is Starcraft, but at the same time, it's not Starcraft. I've pretty much reserved my judgement on whether or not this is a good thing.
I once took a screenshot and changed the brightness/contrast hue/saturation so it would resemble the visuals I always imagined Starcraft to have. I basically ended up giving it a Gears of War treatment and the first thing I thought was that "this is unplayable and actually quite discouraging to play with visuals like this".

But at the same time, it felt like the Starcraft universe, compared to what a very famous Praetor once called it, "WARCRAFT IN SPACE". That's what I'm feeling at the moment. Starcraft II is Warcraft III in space.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I get what you mean. The problem is that SC has really only had one game, so SC2 and future games in the series will begin to establish what is "SC1 the Game" and what is "SC the series" in terms of gameplay design, and I can guarentee the results of the distinction will displease many fans. A game can still be a Starcrft game without being Starcraft itself, and this is what will happen and what players will need to become comfortable with.

 

[null]

But at the same time, it felt like the Starcraft universe, compared to what a very famous Praetor once called it, "WARCRAFT IN SPACE". That's what I'm feeling at the moment. Starcraft II is Warcraft III in space.

Well spoken, concubine of the Zerg.

The hype has effectively killed my interest. And the shitty PvP commentaries floating around on Youtube.

Also Drake, I used to say the same thing about Square, and forced myself to to stop saying it about Bioware. Every great developer eventually rides its success straight down the toilet.

 

[Hisako]

I actually found the Battle Reports - the ones from Blizzard, obviously - to be a very helpful example of how the game plays out, but it possibly could be even more helpful if they'd actually uploaded a replay in which you could choose what/who you were observing and how their strategy plays out, rather than just a straight-out video of the game.
In other words, if they'd actually uploaded whole replay files.

I think Blizzard's had way too much time playing around with Warcraft and its various little substituents, and have perhaps lost a bit of their touch with the other games. I just hope this doesn't carry over to Diablo III, because that looks so promising.


AND BY GAWD I WANT THEM TO FINISH A STARCRAFT GHOST GAME I KNOW IT WON'T HAPPEN BUT I WANT IT TO D;

 

[Vendel]

See, this is my point - the game is Starcraft, but at the same time, it's not Starcraft. I've pretty much reserved my judgement on whether or not this is a good thing.
.............
But at the same time, it felt like the Starcraft universe, compared to what a very famous Praetor once called it, "WARCRAFT IN SPACE". That's what I'm feeling at the moment. Starcraft II is Warcraft III in space.

Weren't people bitching that WC3 was ruined because it was different?

As has been said. Give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Interslicery]

I actually found the Battle Reports - the ones from Blizzard, obviously - to be a very helpful example of how the game plays out, but it possibly could be even more helpful if they'd actually uploaded a replay in which you could choose what/who you were observing and how their strategy plays out, rather than just a straight-out video of the game.
In other words, if they'd actually uploaded whole replay files.

Dont they already?

 

[Hisako]

Weren't people bitching that WC3 was ruined because it was different?

As has been said. Give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt.

I mentioned earlier, I'm reserving my judgement on whether It's Different is a good or a bad thing because my experience is of the beta right now. And while they probably won't change too much to the release product, whatever they do change could determine what makes the game good and what makes it bad.
And no I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt. Not until I've played it enough to get used to the changes. They're a little drastic, that's all. And a bit jarring.

Dont they already?

[youtube video, thanks brah EDIT: why do you need to critique people's chats you don't need to commentary people's chats]

Yeah, what I meant was like a replay file we could actually use in the Starcraft II Launcher, rather than just a video to watch online.

 

[Interslicery]

Well, I assume he got it from somewhere since he was moving around on his own, selecting units, etc. He wasnt commenting on a video

 

[Hisako]

Yeah, that is true.
The original Battle Reports were the same, I just want to know if they'll simply release the replays to the general public. It's no biggee though.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

This has me wicked excited for singlepayer.

~*Minor spoilers, moreso in the cutscene*~

Welcome to the Jungle Mission Gameplay
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/protoss-relic-starcraft-ii/64799

The Dig Mission Gameplay
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/drakken-laser-starcraft-ii/64795

Whispers of Doom Cutscene
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/unexpected-encounter-starcraft-ii/64680



X

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Ho HO, did you see that drill boom-boom two Archons in five seconds! Woo! The single-player is gonna kick ass!

 

[X-SOLDIER]

The dialogue in that cutscene sends chills down my spine. I love the unique mechanics of each level.


X

 

[Hisako]

YES ORIGINAL STARCRAFT UNITS omg yes a little closer to home. Goliaths seem a whole lot larger than the original though.

I do have these little petty gripes with the in-game dialogue (the protoss seem to spout their transmissions in pretty standard "hoe noes you defiales mai sacred ground" and Jim doesn't seem too concerned his guys are killing Protoss now) but all in all I'm not worried about it.
I'm really, really excited over how more versatile the single-player scenarios are now rather than the typical 'defend stationary unit/building for [time limit]', 'destroy this base' or 'defeat this unit' which while Starcraft did fine, was limited to.
Of course, the cutscenes in Starcraft II are fabulous. YAY FOR FORESHADOWING REDEMPTION \o/


EDIT: Also I really fucking want to see more of Eminence doing its job. I keep hearing the same little protoss-y tunes being played over and over again in all the media I've watched.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Well... In the Beta, I believe that the Terran & Zerg have a lot of songs, but the Protoss have one... (Hopefully this will be very different in the full game).


X

 

[Geostigma]

I'd play this but im not korean enough :<

 

[DrakeClawfang]

the protoss seem to spout their transmissions in pretty standard "hoe noes you defiales mai sacred ground"

With the exception of Tassadar, Zeratul and Fenix (who were outlaws), that's how I recall most of the Protoss talking in SC and BW.

 

[Cthulhu]

MY LIFE FOR AIUR!





... I mean, Ner'Zhul.

So when's this game coming out again? It's almost like it's already out, so much bollocks is about it on the webs.




I might even buy it btw. Shocking.