Story of SOLDIER

OWA-2

Pro Adventurer
[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=358.msg10208#msg10208 date=1232562581]Not quite; like I said before, the Compilation (see; Before Crisis) has shown before that Cloud is exceptionally talented.[/quote]

Are you talking about his fight with the Ravens? Because his talent in that fight, came from a surge-of-adrenaline. If you read the dialogue after it, Cloud didn't even remember what he did.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
The whole 'adrenaline' theory is bull, man, and I see it being said all of the time. It's especially insulting that as a biology student, I know how adrenaline works. Adrenaline only provides base strength, and it can only draw upon strength that was already there in the first place, and it doesn't provide talent, either.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
That's the point. His untapped potential was tapped during that conflict. A mere trooper wouldn't be able to do that, surge of adrenaline or not.

Adrenaline doesn't make you suddenly have sword skill. You don't go from never having touched a sword before to being able to cleave a human being in half.
 

OWA-2

Pro Adventurer
Exactly, his untapped potential. Something that he doesn't have full control over, and that appears only during critical and extreme situations.
He can't tap into it, anytime he wants.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
It's still natural talent, though. Fei from Xenogears, for most of the game has the untapped potential to be the single most powerful entity in the games universe (and most of fiction), and while he doesn't tap into it for a majority of the game, it's still his own natural talent.
 

Masamune

Fiat Lux
AKA
Masa
[quote author=ForceStealer link=topic=358.msg10174#msg10174 date=1232553504]Yeah, that would have made significantly more sense, although we'd still have the problem of their sheer numbers, and why they're using guns.[/quote]

Well, you could include grunts along with SOLDIERs if you wanted, but I wouldn't have made Deepground so advanced in the first place. It really stretches the imagination to have this high-tech mega army living under Shinra HQ. All you need is some guerilla warfare, and you have a dangerous enemy.

Guns aren't a problem. I'm sure there's access to firearms in the Midgar ruins, as well as the Tsviet facility.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
It's just those hundreds of Dragonfly helicopters and Black Widows stashed in the basement closet hammerspace that kinda pushes it, huh? :monster:
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=358.msg10231#msg10231 date=1232567450]
It's just those hundreds of Dragonfly helicopters and Black Widows stashed in the basement closet hammerspace that kinda pushes it, huh? :monster:
[/quote]

Indeed. :monster:

I wonder just what elevator they use to get all that shit out of there.
 

OWA-2

Pro Adventurer
[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=358.msg10217#msg10217 date=1232564602]
It's still natural talent, though. Fei from Xenogears, for most of the game has the untapped potential to be the single most powerful entity in the games universe (and most of fiction), and while he doesn't tap into it for a majority of the game, it's still his own natural talent.
[/quote]

And? A talent that "inexperienced-Cloud-at-the-start-of-FFVII" almost never uses, isn't a big advantage over a DG SOLDIER, or over DoC-Vincent.
Remove Cloud's J-cells, at the start of FFVII, and he would be pretty equal to a DG SOLDIER... With exception of a hidden potential he have, but that it's not really important, because he almost never uses it. ::)
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
If you seriously want to think about it...

Nero's darkness can function literally as hammer space. He DOES carry around a big giant mecha and a few Black Widows in there. =D

He'd make a hell of a furniture mover and construction worker.

That and they probably built most of their crap down there. Don't ask me why, I try not to think about it too much. Keeps the headaches away.

@OWA-2

...His "hidden potential" in Before Crisis is the entire base for his current strength and power now. He's been using it ever since and it's what allowed him to throw Sephiroth from a bridge into a mako pit with a katana sticking through his chest. And also wield the Buster Sword with the skill of a SOLDIER 1st Class without any prior training.

Cloud is nothing close to a DG SOLDIER, unless you mean a Tsviet.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Zack couldn't catch him either, so fuck off :monster:

Fat men in sandals and apple shirts are NOT TO BE UNDERESTIMATED.
 

Masamune

Fiat Lux
AKA
Masa
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=358.msg10239#msg10239 date=1232569099]Fat men in sandals and apple shirts are NOT TO BE UNDERESTIMATED.
[/quote]

Speaking from experience?
 

OWA-2

Pro Adventurer
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=358.msg10236#msg10236 date=1232568397]
If you seriously want to think about it...

Nero's darkness can function literally as hammer space. He DOES carry around a big giant mecha and a few Black Widows in there. =D[/quote]

Don't forget the ship(or it was a submarine?) he absorbed in "Lost Episode".

...His "hidden potential" in Before Crisis is the entire base for his current strength and power now. He's been using it ever since and it's what allowed him to throw Sephiroth from a bridge into a mako pit with a katana sticking through his chest. And also wield the Buster Sword with the skill of a SOLDIER 1st Class without any prior training.

Cloud is nothing close to a DG SOLDIER, unless you mean a Tsviet.

Whatever, this is not fun anymore. Lets just agree to disagree.
 

Suzaku

Pro Adventurer
Disorganized post hitting on various subjects:

The entire philosphy behind DGS is different from the standard SOLDIER philosphy. DG was used to conduct morally objectionable experiments, some of which were pretty horrific. On top of that, when the Restrictors took over, the entire organization basically became a large scale exercise in survival of the fittest, where DGS were pitted against one another, to the death, in large scale mission and battlefield simulations.

The DGS were from all walks of life. Some were SOLDIERs, yes, but others were civilians, and I'm sure there were many members of the Shinra Army, polticial prisoners, criminals, and so on.

As stated in the intro, DGS included people who were kidnapped, people who had been injured and were taken there, people who were born there or could remember nothing before it, people who suddenly found themselves there, people who understand what the place was, and people who don't know anything at all about it.

Weiss and Nero wore SOLDIER-style uniforms, as did other DGS. They were born in Deep Ground, however, and they couldn't have been regular SOLDIERs. I'm not sure if I'd go as far as saying it was a disguise, it was just what their uniform looked like.


DG has a unique rank system that differs from the standard SOLDIER classification:

DG Drone: 3rd, 2nd, 1st
DG Scout: 3rd, 2nd, 1st
DG Trooper: 3rd, 2nd, 1st
DG Commander: 3rd, 2nd, 1st
DG General: 3rd, 2nd, 1st
Tsviet
Tsviet (w/ Color Epithet)


Probably all members up through Trooper were roughly on par with the various ranks in the Shinra Army. Commanders and Generals are probably approaching SOLDIER:3rd or 2nd levels, and Tsviet are at least 1st Class SOLDIER material.

By the time Tsviet overthrows the Restrictors and DGS starts heading out into the world, you're probably left with the stronger survivors, since the weaker members would've been killed off.

As for Cloud, yes, he's got natural talent, and his so-called "bursts of adreneline" are probably similar to the concept of a Limit Break, which you even see a little kid doing in FFVII. However, it's still pretty implied that a lot of his skill comes from Zack; we know that Zack at least showed him a thing or two, and when the Jenova cells augmented his memory and persona with what he'd observed from Zack, it stands to reason that he artificially "learned" a lot of Zack's skill.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Troopers aren't given mako injections though. That already puts a DG SOLDIER Trooper a cut above a normal one.

And Christ, it's so fucking insane. Why the hell would DG waste resources, ammo, food rations, energy, etc, telling their SOLDIERs,

"HEY GUYS! KILL EACH OTHER FOR FUN AND TRAINING! CAUSE WE CAN LIKE...TOTALLY LIVE UNDERGROUND HERE FOREVER AND ITS NOT LIKE WE HAVE FINITE RESOURCES OR SPACE FOR DEAD BODIES! GO GO GO!"

As for Cloud inheriting anything from Zack, we know that he copied his Meteorain limit break from AC, and some of his mannerisms. But you can't copy physical strength and endurance. Cloud had that already and merely realized it once he copied Zack's persona and "forgot" the hangups that kept him from being a SOLDIER in the first place.

@Masamune

Ha ha..real funny :monster:

I'd have tackled Hollander before he even got a chance to grab his apple juice.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
They get the infusions to make them stronger and they need regular mako infusions because if they don't get them, they'll die. Hence, their suits have a steady, mako infusion system built in that allows them to fight without going in their pods for mako.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Mako addiction, apparently. Their bodies have been so augmented and doped up on mako energy, that it can't function anymore. Somehow they've weakened themselves in their lust for strength.

It's like the next step up from mako poisoning.
 

Nocturne

Watching Thee From The Moon
AKA
Just Nocturne will do
I assume it's kind of like being addicted to a drug and if you go off of it, you can actually go into shock and die, depending on how addicted you are.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=358.msg10245#msg10245 date=1232570177]
"AND ITS NOT LIKE WE HAVE FINITE RESOURCES OR SPACE FOR DEAD BODIES! GO GO GO!"
[/quote]
Have you ever seen Soylent Green? :monster:
 

Landarma

Lv. 25 Adventurer
[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=358.msg10428#msg10428 date=1232605155]
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=358.msg10245#msg10245 date=1232570177]
"AND ITS NOT LIKE WE HAVE FINITE RESOURCES OR SPACE FOR DEAD BODIES! GO GO GO!"
[/quote]
Have you ever seen Soylent Green? :monster:
[/quote]

I haven't, but I know the spoiler... Yuck.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=358.msg10239#msg10239 date=1232569099]
Zack couldn't catch him either, so fuck off :monster:[/quote]

Which pissed me off, by the way. It brought back terrible memories from my childhood at the end of Sonic 2 and Sonic and Knuckles. Why the hell can a FAT SCIENTIST outrun Sonic the &$#%in' Hedgehog to his mech?!?! >:(
 
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