The Abesence Of Gast's Presence In the Compilation

[jazzflower92]

^^Good observation there.

Yeah, the whole "Ilfana is the last Cetra" thing through me for a loop, since that's not how populations go extinct, especially when there are still people to have kids with. It's probably more like she's the last Cetra who managed to hang on to Cetra teaching/culture. There are probably plenty of half and quarter Cetra living around the Planet, but they aren't aware of it. However, that's all head-canon.

Keep in mind that things like Limit Breaks have been shown to work for non-mako infused individuals and everyone can use materia provided its in a slot in a weapon/armor. So at some basic level, everyone is connected to the Lifestream.

To be honest, I think Shin-Ra massively mixed up teaching/culture and Cetra genes when they started looking for a Cetra that would lead them to the Promised Land. Then again, it's pretty obvious that they completely misunderstood what the Promised Land was in the first place. However, there does seem to be a genetic difference between Cetra and normal humans, so they weren't completely wrong.

Yeah,I don't think Square did not think this through when it came to the Cetra just dwindling down to one person.

 

[ForceStealer]

Also, here is a messed up headcanon - when Hojo puts Red XIII in the chamber with Aerith to "breed them", did anyone else take this literally? Crisis Core shows that this was a Fusion Chamber where organisms could be fused together rather than making them reproduce, but until that point, it had never crossed my mind that anything other than a forced sexual encounter was what Hojo was going for.

That's what I always thought. I didn't notice CC said something else. Especially with all that stuff like Red not being interested in "two-legged things."

 

[jazzflower92]

That's what I always thought. I didn't notice CC said something else. Especially with all that stuff like Red not being interested in "two-legged things."

This is Hojo we are talking about.He is like the Dr.Fansworth of his universe.He will try to bend the laws of decency,ethics,and even possibility to get his results.Funny,I compare him to Fansworth because at the least the guy is funny and has some sense of morality at least compared to Dr.Hojo.

I wonder what type of experiments he did on Ifana and Aerith as well.And I have a feeling they were not pretty.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

New headcanon: Jenova arrived on the first Meteor summoned.

I've always figured that the Black Materia was created from the memories of Jenova's meteor, but there's nothing official to support that.



By the way, wanted to briefly return to this earlier subject I had discussed with S and G:

In this event, it is not impossible (particularly given his subsequent abilities) that Sephiroth would remember Gast.

I suppose not, though we wouldn't expect an adult to remember much of anything from the first three years of their life, unless, of course, Jenova's mimic abilities did copy them.

During the Nibelheim incident (both the original game and in Crisis Core), Seph comments that the view looks familiar from a window in that one building in Nibelheim, and VII's Ultimania Omega did mention that it was because he was born in that building. So, yeah, it's entirely possible that Seph could have vivid memories from when he was a toddler.

 

[jazzflower92]

I've always figured that the Black Materia was created from the memories of Jenova's meteor, but there's nothing official to support that.



By the way, wanted to briefly return to this earlier subject I had discussed with S and G:



During the Nibelheim incident (both the original game and in Crisis Core), Seph comments that the view looks familiar from a window in that one building in Nibelheim, and VII's Ultimania Omega did mention that it was because he was born in that building. So, yeah, it's entirely possible that Seph could have vivid memories from when he was a toddler.

This gives a good idea that Jenova's cell probably was the reason why he could remember some things so well and the fact he was noted to be really intelligent helps as well.

I think someone born with Jenova's cells could have had their intelligence boosted.I think that maybe as a toddler they actually did a lot of tests concerning his intellectual progress and found him to above what was expected for children his age.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

During the Nibelheim incident (both the original game and in Crisis Core), Seph comments that the view looks familiar from a window in that one building in Nibelheim, and VII's Ultimania Omega did mention that it was because he was born in that building. So, yeah, it's entirely possible that Seph could have vivid memories from when he was a toddler.

Sephiroth was born in the inn? Not in the lab? That seems - odd. But if it's in the Ultimania it must be true, I guess.

Video game scripts are by their nature very pared down; every word has to pull its weight. I thought that line about the view being familiar was designed to alert us, the player, to the fact that Sephiroth has a connection with Nibelheim of which he is unaware. I also thought it was designed to link together with his earlier statement about not having a hometown, to mislead the player into assuming that Nibelheim was Sephiroth's hometown (which it is, in a way) and that he was suffering from amnesia, which would be par for the course in a JRPG - only to overturn that trope by revealing that Cloud is the one with amnesia and Sephiroth's connection to Nibelheim is something much more sinister.

 

[jazzflower92]

Sephiroth was born in the inn? Not in the lab? That seems - odd. But if it's in the Ultimania it must be true, I guess.

Video game scripts are by their nature very pared down; every word has to pull its weight. I thought that line about the view being familiar was designed to alert us, the player, to the fact that Sephiroth has a connection with Nibelheim of which he is unaware. I also thought it was designed to link together with his earlier statement about not having a hometown, to mislead the player into assuming that Nibelheim was Sephiroth's hometown (which it is, in a way) and that he was suffering from amnesia, which would be par for the course in a JRPG - only to overturn that trope by revealing that Cloud is the one with amnesia and Sephiroth's connection to Nibelheim is something much more sinister.

There is another trope which is called Where I Was Born And Razed.Sephiroth comes back years later to the place where he was born and razes it when finds out about his origins.I also see it as another connection between him and Cloud mainly because they both share a birth town although from the looks of things Sephiroth was only raised there for a short while.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Sephiroth was born in the inn? Not in the lab? That seems - odd. But if it's in the Ultimania it must be true, I guess.

Yeah, he was born right there. Remember Lucrecia collapsing there during her pregnancy? The Ultimania says, "The reason Sephiroth says that he recognises the view from the second floor window of the inn is because his birth mother Lucretia bore him in this room." That's hito's translation, by the way.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Yeah, he was born right there. Remember Lucrecia collapsing there during her pregnancy? The Ultimania says, "The reason Sephiroth says that he recognises the view from the second floor window of the inn is because his birth mother Lucretia bore him in this room." That's hito's translation, by the way.

So that collapsing was actually her birth pains? I thought she was doubling over from guilt - mostly because she didn't look anywhere near being 9 months pregnant!!

 

[Shademp]

So that collapsing was actually her birth pains? I thought she was doubling over from guilt - mostly because she didn't look anywhere near being 9 months pregnant!!

The Ultimania Omega was released in 2005, one year before Dirge of Cerberus. In the original game's scene, we could buy that she is pregnant because the relatively poor graphics would not be expected to show a round belly.

Lucrecia's appearance in the DoC rendition of that scene can mean one of three things.
1) It's a mistake and it is still canon that Sephiroth was born after that moment.
2) The Ultimania Omega's statement about Sephiroth being born at the inn is no longer valid due to DoC not showing a Lucrecia at late pregnancy.
3) The scene where Lucrecia falls on her knees and has vision in DoC is not the same scene as the one in OG. This would be supported by the fact that DoC has her fall inside the Shinra Mansion, while the OG has her completely collapse (in a rather different fashion from what we saw in full in DoC) inside the Nibelheim Inn.
(+ variations of the above possibilities)


I reckon that the scene in DoC where Lucrecia has visions of the future (or however those images are to be interpreted by the player) was made with the OG scene as an inspiration, but with a great apathy as to how the scene fits into the continuity.

EDIT: I realized only while writing this that Lucrecia is shown being in pain inside the Shinra Mansion, and not the inn, in DoC. Notice also that we don't actually see her collapse in that scene, but we do see a full collapse in the OG. So it seems to me now that we in fact have two different scenes.

This one which takes place at an early point in the pregnancy

and then the one in OG, right before she gives birth (presumably).

 

[jazzflower92]

So that collapsing was actually her birth pains? I thought she was doubling over from guilt - mostly because she didn't look anywhere near being 9 months pregnant!!

In Dirge of Cerebrus wasn't she shown actually suffering from visions of Sephiroth and what he was going to do in the future.

The thing is that the Ultimanias and the Compilations seem to contradict each other.I actually have a feeling that the developers ingore whats in the Ultimanias most of the time and retcon stuff whenever they feel like it.

If even the developers don't follow what the Ultimanias say then I wonder if they really should be used to back up stuff since they can be retconed by future installments in the Compilations.

 

[ForceStealer]

Why can't it just be two instances of falling? After all, we're all so convinced that the developers don't go back and look at the established canon (and Nojima didn't write Dirge), for all we know the fact that she falls in both is just a coincidence.
But like Shademp said, not only is she not in the Inn, her falling takes place early in the pregnancy, presumably, as Vincent has just learned of their plans.

But by that logic, why discuss anything? What caused Lucrecia to fall seems to silly thing to draw the line at.

And @Licorice, as for her not looking 9 months pregnant (in either game), I direct you to Lulu.

 

[S and G]

Sorry to draw on an earlier point raised which mentioned the possibility of Meteor having being summoned many times before.

As much as I find the theory interesting, it is highly unlikely. The Planet created Weapon to protect itself when a crisis arose that would threaten its existence. Ifalna states that the Weapon were originally created in response to Jenova's arrival and subsequent activities, but that the Cetra defeated Jenova before Weapon was ever used. The monsters do, however, waken when Meteor is summoned.

This leaves only two possibilities:

1 - Meteor has only once been summoned
2 - Meteor has not been summoned since Jenova was sealed but, prior to Jenova's arrival, the Planet did not deem Meteor a significant enough threat to create Weapon

The latter does not make a great deal of sense.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

And @Licorice, as for her not looking 9 months pregnant (in either game), I direct you to Lulu.

Indeed. SE(as well as Squaresoft) seems to be too lazy to animate a pregnant woman.

 

[Flower Maiden]

Yes, it's strange. The first time I saw is face was in a doujinshi called Secret innocence... reminds me my literature teacher^^ Seriously, I think he is a graet character. The main reason I didn't really liked DoC was too many new characters when old ones are neglected. Grimoire Valentine ? even is name seems taken trom a bad fanfic . I love Gast, really. I don't know if his first name is David or Faremis, I read the two of them on serious sites. He should have desserved more attention from the game writters. his story with Ifalna is so romantic. I always see him as the "good doctor", perfect opposit of Hojo. We dont even see them in the Maiden of the Planet. But Yay ! they now belong to fanfic writters !

 

[jazzflower92]

Yes, it's strange. The first time I saw is face was in a doujinshi called Secret innocence... reminds me my literature teacher^^ Seriously, I think he is a graet character. The main reason I didn't really liked DoC was too many new characters when old ones are neglected. Grimoire Valentine ? even is name seems taken trom a bad fanfic . I love Gast, really. I don't know if his first name is David or Faremis, I read the two of them on serious sites. He should have desserved more attention from the game writters. his story with Ifalna is so romantic. I always see him as the "good doctor", perfect opposit of Hojo. We dont even see them in the Maiden of the Planet. But Yay ! they now belong to fanfic writters !

Especially the fact that Gast seemed to be a person that Sephiroth highly respected.It just makes it seem more tragic later in life that he kills Aerith,Gast's daughter.It makes one question also what would have happened if Sephiroth ever did meet Aerith when he was sane and actually found out that she was Gast's child.I have a feeling this would have compelled him to protect her and start a connection with her.

I think Sephiroth would have probably found out from Aerith what really happened to Gast.I have a feeling that he would have an even more justified reason for hating Hojo.

In my mind I don't think Gast was perfect but he was better than Hojo which is not hard to be.I think Gast was a good man but when working with Shinra he sometimes had to cross some ethical lines that he was uncomfotable doing.He had a moral compass which he kept ignoring until the revelation of Jenova's true origins finally hit him into leaving Shinra.Gast was a good man but he made decisions that were questionable until he regreted them.

 

[ForceStealer]

Aerith didn't know what happened to Gast. I don't even think she was aware he was her father.

As for your opinion on Gast, it's entirely possible. Or it's entirely possible that he was just as despicable (having sanctioned everything the Jenova Project entailed) but got out when he realized he was wrong about Jenova and falling for Ifalna changed him.
But, yes, what little we've seen of him does imply he wasn't nearly as deranged as Hojo. But he probably was just as desensitized until he fell for Ifalna.

 

[jazzflower92]

Aerith didn't know what happened to Gast. I don't even think she was aware he was her father.

As for your opinion on Gast, it's entirely possible. Or it's entirely possible that he was just as despicable (having sanctioned everything the Jenova Project entailed) but got out when he realized he was wrong about Jenova and falling for Ifalna changed him.
But, yes, what little we've seen of him does imply he wasn't nearly as deranged as Hojo. But he probably was just as desensitized until he fell for Ifalna.

I think maybe Ifana would have told Aerith a little about who her father was while they were in captivity.But yeah I think Ifana was the person who actually did get Gast to finally question all the things he has been doing while working for Shinra.I think the truth about Jenova finally got him to really start questioning what his experiments might have actually done.I have a feeling that after he decided to leave Shinra the Jenova Project got more unethical after he left.I also think that during his time as lead of the Science Department he actually did want to put some limits on what was happening.I do think at times he kept comprimising his morality in the name that somehow this research would help humanity.

I think for a bit he probably thought that the ends justify the means until it was revealed that all this stuff they were doing was wrong in the first place with miscaculated presumptions.I think Gast maybe at first wanted to get Sephiroth away since Hojo cared more about his son being an experiment than actually his well being.The company in my headcannon probably stopped him because Sephiroth was their ward and even though Jenova wasn't a Cetra they still could use the boy someway else.