Don't get me wrong, FF wiki is a great site, if you want information on any FF other than VII. There's so much debate about certain aspects of VII (The LTD, which Sephy were Sephy and which were Jenova, who was in control, Seph or Jenova, how old is Vince, etc.) that edit wars are common and it prevents its VII information from being reliable. If you want VII info, this site is best.
Matt said:
Though, Squall of SeeD, I could've sworn you said Vincent was asleep for 30 years in your Plot Analysis of FFVII.
Nope:
*Q: Is Vincent immortal?
*A: Essentially. After being mortally wounded by Hojo approximately 23 years before the original game began and then being brought back to life through experimentation, Vincent has eternal youth. He's now immortal, continuing to retain the youth he had at 27 years old decades later.
*Source: FFVII Ultimania Omega guide (pg. 46); FFVII 10th Anniversary
Ultimania guide (pg. 68; pg. 70 in the Revised Edition)
Right, contrary to your statement, I think you have made quite a glaringly-unreasonable assumption here, Tres.
It would only be unreasonable if I said there was no wiggle room at all.
I only said that "it seems highly unlikely" that Seph met Gast, and that we can "rather reasonably conclude" he didn't.
S and G said:
Your logic is sound but for one aspect - you have assumed Gast left Shinra before Sephiroth's birth. Obviously it is made clear that Genesis and Angeal were deemed failures when they were babies. Define baby, or more specifically, define the exact translation of the Ultimania. This may mean weeks old, or it may mean 1-3 years old depending on interpretation.
Fair enough. I don't have the CC Ultimania or Complete Guide to check the original text myself.
S and G said:
If Hollander is given the reigns at the Science Dept, it means that Sephiroth has not yet been classed a success. He may have been given the position because they assumed he would be a failure like his predecessors. Again, how long did this 'power struggle' last after Gast's disappearance? A week? A month? Years?
Well, if Seph, Genesis and Angeal were still to be considered babies at the time, it's unlikely that the struggle lasted years if they were already in the 2-to-3 year age range. If they were to be that age, the struggle would have needed to end rather rapidly.
That, or they would have only just been born if it were to last any significant length of time.
In any case, it's safe to assume the power struggle must have been over by 1983 since Hojo seems to be in charge by then (he tells Gast that he waited two years for he and Ifalna to produce a new sample -- i.e. Aerith).
S and G said:
It is clear from this information that Gast left Shinra prior to Sephiroth being confirmed as a success (otherwise Hollander would not have been given the position) but it doesn't necessarily mean that he was not around for the first couple of years of Sephiroth's life while tests were being done. If we take the translation of 'babies' as 'infants', you then have a potential 0-3 year interpretation of how long Gast was with Shinra after Sephiroth's birth.
In this event, it is not impossible (particularly given his subsequent abilities) that Sephiroth would remember Gast.
I suppose not, though we wouldn't expect an adult to remember much of anything from the first three years of their life, unless, of course, Jenova's mimic abilities did copy them.
In any case, even were Seph to have known Gast up to around three years of age (the absolute oldest he could have been when Gast left, going by the "25 to 30 years ago" placement of Seph's birth), that still wouldn't put him at being old enough he should really have expected Gast to tell him all about his origin -- that line ("Professor Gast... Why didn't you tell me anything? ...Why did you die?") being the one and only reason anyone has ever concluded that Gast and Seph were personally familiar with one another.
S and G said:
Of course, this is all hypothetical, but my point is that there is too much being stated as black and white when it is actually a bit ambiguous.
Just want to reiterate that I didn't state it in black and white terms so much as in terms of likelihood. I don't think it's
imossible that Sephiroth met Gast. Not at all. It's just not terribly likely given the surrounding circumstances and the ages of the children involved.
Also, given that Angeal and Genesis were said to be the only surviving infants out of an unknown number of them from Jenova Project G, there was plenty of time and reason before Seph's birth for Gast to have become plagued by guilt.
It actually would paint him as even bigger assmunch if he was so burdened with guilt that he left -- but not burdened enough by it to try getting these children out of there too.
S and G said:
Also, where does it state Hollander was head of the department after Gast? It says he lost the power struggle but this may have just been him and Hojo vying for the same position.
Both in the CC Ultimania Q&A and the CC Complete Guide Keyword section:
"On the other hand, Sephiroth showed the anticipated merit, and was deemed a success. Thanks to this Hojo seizes control of the science department, and Hollander loses his position within the department."
"
Science Department Leadership Struggle
A event which took place around
[ μ ] -εуλ 1980 after the disappearance of Gast, the former top of the Science Department, where Hojo and Hollander vied for leadership of the Science Department. Ultimately the deciding factor was the success of Hojo’s Project S versus Hollander’s Project G being deemed a failure, and Hojo took his place as the head of the department. Defeated, Hollander was demoted."
