The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Well one has to find amusement in the fact that someone who accuses me of stalking pretends to know what I am doing, for how long and why.
Complete with statistics :monster:
But srsly, this was my fault for pointing it out and I didn't really mean to piss anyone off here. So sorry if I did.

But as to why we'd bother reading it in the first place, as Ryu said seeing threads dedicated to yourself, or rants about yourself are hilarious.
You must have had a field day when FFG posted that rant about you :awesome:

Why doesn't anyone post rants about me? I do my best dammit :(

Also something else I was thinking of... I used to wonder why Cleriths were so against there being romance in the HA Highwind scene... I mean if it truly was optional like they said why would it matter? But I think I figured it out... it's because they know that CLoud's affections and emotions aren't the ones that change. Tifa's do. (as many have pointed out) So if he feels one way in the one, he feels that way in both. I just think the point was kind of lost over time.

EDIT
Yeah I know we've discussed it a billion times but I thought I'd try to get it back on topic at least a little.
 
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Vendel

Banned
Also something else I was thinking of... I used to wonder why Cleriths were so against there being romance in the HA Highwind scene... I mean if it truly was optional like they said why would it matter? But I think I figured it out... it's because they know that CLoud's affections and emotions aren't the ones that change. Tifa's do. (as many have pointed out) So if he feels one way in the one, he feels that way in ALL THREE. I just think the point was kind of lost over time..


Fixed that for you.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Well it was just a year ago I convinced Anastar that there wasn't one so maybe word didn't get around yet :monster:
 
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Vendel

Banned
Getting back on your topic Q.

I just saw someone state that since the HW scene is determined by Tifa's affection rating it proves that you can control who Cloud loves.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
ncwtf.gif


Christ they might as well say there's 3 Highwind versions...

EDIT:

Also even though it'll start shit... here's an essay I wrote the other day:

-----------

This essay is a little different from my other ones. Instead of analyzing a quote, I'm going to address a couple arguments that have been going on for quite some time. It's unfortunate that the LTD has come down to this, but due to feelings both girls had as teenagers, each side grasps onto certain ideas of what Aerith and Tifa are really in love with, as if to prove they don't love Cloud. Of course because a love triangle involves two people who are in love with a third member, to say either girl doesn't actually love Cloud seems a bit weird to me, but let's look at the evidence anyway. Note that not all Clotis and Cleriths think alike on this. I admit that I'm generalizing quite a bit here.

Argument #1:

Aerith was in love with Zack when she was younger. This is why she is attracted to Cloud, because he had a lot of similarities to Cloud. She never got to know the real Cloud, and thus cannot truly love him for who he is.

Argument #2:

Tifa doesn't actually want Cloud. The only reason that she even took interest in him is because when they were young he promised to her that he'd return a hero. She doesn't truly love the real Cloud for who he is, but in fact an ideal version of him that she created for herself.

Thoughts: The funny thing about these argument is both sides are right up to a certain point, but it's the end point that gets muddled. I'll make both of these very simple. Let's look at Aerith first.

Was Aerith's initial attraction to Cloud because he had Zack like qualities?
The earliest quote we have on this issue is from Aerith herself while on her date with Cloud.

First off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture... I think I must have seen him again, in you... But you're different. Things are different...

From Aerith's own mouth, we had admittance on her part that she thought Cloud was very similar to Zack.For those out there who believe the date may or may not have happened, there is also this quote from one of Aerith's monologues from the FFVII Dismantled book.

At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke... his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.
But Cloud is clueless.

Again we have Aerith admitting that Cloud was very similar to Zack. There is also this that comes as late as the 20th Anniversary Ultimania
Aerith's first love, a young first class SOLDIER named Zack, went missing 5 years ago. He was Cloud's best friend and the person who largely affected Cloud's behavior. Aerith doesn't know the two of them were best friends. Aerith sees Zack's behavior in Cloud, and took an interest in him.

Conclusion: There is no denying that Aerith was initially attracted to the Zack in Cloud. Multiple sources have stated this so there is no point in arguing against it. Before I go further into Aerith, I'd like to discuss Tifa.

Was Tifa's initial interest in Cloud only because he said he'd be her hero?
I don't need to go much further than the Ultimania Omega on this one.

Despite Cloud having a good will, Tifa did not have any interest towards Cloud, and it was only at the time when they exchanged their promises that she started to take more notice in him. Part of that reason may be because of her loneliness of losing her friends around her, but more than that, him saying he will become a hero had the biggest impact of all.

There is also this quote, once again from the UO.

In those days, Tifa didn't take much notice of Cloud***. The reason why she said to him "To be saved by a Hero" was only to satisfy her childish princess desire.

Conclusion: The quotes speak from themselves. Tifa's attraction to Cloud began because he made a promise to her to be a hero. She had no interest in him before that.

So does this mean neither girl truly loves Cloud?

Here's a quote from the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania.
Although in the beginning, Aerith felt close to Cloud because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and is attracted to him.

This quote states plain as day that, yes, while she was initially attracted to the Zack in Cloud, her interest in Cloud himself grew and she is attracted to him. As in she is attracted to Cloud himself, not the Zack in him. As for Tifa, there is a second part to the first UO quote posted and it goes like this:

However when the promise was exchanged, at that moment, Cloud became a special existence to her, which later, he now holds a huge position (in Tifa).

Once again it's explained that while at first the attraction was for the wrong reasons, Cloud became a special existence to her. But while we're at it, I'd like to post a couple more quotes from the 10th Anniversary Ultimania.

Both of them share feelings for Cloud — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival.

In addition to FFVII’s heroines Tifa and Aerith both having feelings for him, AVALANCHE’s Jessie and young Priscilla in Junon both also fall for Cloud soon after they meet him.

[FFVII]Both Aerith, who is forthright, and Tifa, who is demure, have feelings for Cloud but he is none the wiser to them.

Conclusion: Although both girls were initially interested in Cloud for reasons other than the fact that he was Cloud, both of them have feelings for the real Cloud and continue to do so throughout the Compilation.

***The literal translation of this line (当時のクラウドは、 ティファには印象の薄い存在だった) would be "Tifa's impression of Cloud's existence was sparse." but because that's really Engrishy, I simply changed it to what the translation meant.
 

crack

Donator
I like how the mods are trying to cease discussing a subject that would have been actively allowed if it were recent, but apparently talking about old shit is not acceptable. This logic confuses me as the majority of the arguments posted on this thread are all old and shit.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I like how the mods are trying to cease discussing a subject that would have been actively allowed if it were recent, but apparently talking about old shit is not acceptable. This logic confuses me as the majority of the arguments posted on this thread are all old and shit.

Which, I think, should have indicated that Tenny and I's objections had nothing to do with shit being old and more to do with shit being ongoing griping over how another forum is run, with a good mix of the "What happens at X stays at X" rule being disregarded.

As for this being a collective thing from your friendly neighborhood mods, do notice that Ryu is fully willing to continue this line of discussion to the crack of doom. There's some disagreement about how far this should have gone even amongst us.
 

crack

Donator
If there was a recent thread at the CxA forum mocking Clotis and TLS, would you still not allow said forum to be discussed then? :monster:
 

Fairheartstrife

[no fucks given]
AKA
FHS, that cloti bitch
**yawn, stretch**

So what've I missed? Anything interesting? I skimmed the last few pages and all I got was that CxA and TLS have shit-on threads, Vendel may or may not stalk Cleriths and Zee may or may not stalk Vendel, Que is apologetic, Mods aren't cohesive on how to run the show, and Cloti is still canon...

Also, who the shit cares what happens on other forums or youtube? Honestly, if they can't bring it here, I'm not chasing it down. I don't have that much invested in it I guess...

/random drive by comments.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
If there was a recent thread at the CxA forum mocking Clotis and TLS, would you still not allow said forum to be discussed then? :monster:
Honestly, I assume they're making fun of Clotis and TLS in most threads over there. If FFG were a member here, though, I wouldn't think it okay to pick a fight with her about it here, though.

Okay, well people talk about ACF all the time, thus breaking that rule.

ACF is obviously a bit of a unique case both because this forum is ACF-done-better and because ACF is dead. But, yeah, if there was an issue being made of how and/or why certain people conducted themselves a certain way back then, I'd think that would be out of place.

A comment here or there, though, about mismanagement of the place hardly qualifies as people talking about ACF all the time. No more so than our talk of SE's mismanagement of shit.

Obviously, taking the most literal reading of "What happens at X stays at X" would be missing the point of the concept.

I wasn't acting in any official capacity, by the way, so I'm not sure why anyone brought up me being a mod. It's not like I told people to knock it off or I'd be pulling out the ban hammer. I just tried to point out the futility of the whole thing, hoped others would see it, and made a plea for reason to prevail.

Do we really need to constantly hunt down reasons to talk shit about a select group? It's almost as bad as Force and Asians.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
AFTER I MAKE THIS GIANT POST, NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO RESPOND TO IT

Zee, 'I cease' does not mean 'no one can respond.' It means 'I cease.' As in I wasn't going to bring it up again. That does not prevent other people from responding.
Seriously, though, Giant post?

but seriously lolololol on nearly all counts

And comments like this, derision with no specific point, are WHY there's so much retarded animosity in this fandom.

Alright let's break this down here:


So yeah it's implied by the conversation that that's what I was talking about. At least I assumed so. Easy to lose track of.

Had I not talked about the other places the Highwind Scene was mentioned, the flow of the conversation would have still implied the story section alone. But I did, so the frame of reference was expanded.
Plus, there are folks (IIRC, Cali is one of them) who thought for awhile that Aerith's WAS the only date shown, ever. Remember the bruhaha about the big deal all four of them are?

You actually kinda do do this sometimes but I don't think you're even aware of it.

An example?

What is this? I don't even...

Just answer the question and there won't be any trouble.

"Let's all agree about how pointless this is and keep talking about that fact. I'm sure there's a point to be found in that other pointlessness."

Seriously, guys, can we stop now, as Tenny suggested? I don't see the (wait for it) point.

Shit's gotten downright stupid.

Point of order- I don't think it's pointless. I was just responding to Zee's accusation that people were treating the idea of a vent forum as criminal. I personally think an entire forum is excessive (A dedicated thread in another forum does the job just as well) but it has its uses, and it's always interesting to look and see what a community vents about, and whether it is largely related to online or offline matters, thing related to the major topic of the thread, or unrelated instances in real life.

Was Tifa's initial interest in Cloud only because he said he'd be her hero?
I don't need to go much further than the Ultimania Omega on this one.

In those days, Tifa didn't take much notice of Cloud***. The reason why she said to him "To be saved by a Hero" was only to satisfy her childish princess desire.

***The literal translation of this line (当時のクラウドは、 ティファには印象の薄い存在だった) would be "Tifa's impression of Cloud's existence was sparse." but because that's really Engrishy, I simply changed it to what the translation meant.

Are you sure that's what it meant, though? To my mind, 'impression was sparse' tells me more that 'she knew very little' rather than 'she took little notice.' Which is splitting hairs in some ways, but makes the difference between 'interested but ill informed' and 'disinterested.'

I wasn't acting in any official capacity, by the way, so I'm not sure why anyone brought up me being a mod. It's not like I told people to knock it off or I'd be pulling out the ban hammer. I just tried to point out the futility of the whole thing, hoped others would see it, and made a plea for reason to prevail.

Nor was I, and heck, I even directed my remark at myself, and it was still taken as an edict that no one could respond.
Of course, I do disagree that discussing it is futile, but I'm also willing to discuss it elsewhere if needed. Zee, since you were upset that I 'told people they couldn't respond' feel free to make a topic in debate and discussion on the subject and I'll see you down there.

Do we really need to constantly hunt down reasons to talk shit about a select group? It's almost as bad as Force and Asians.

Kerzing.
 
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Zee

wangxian married
AKA
Zee
I said:
It's like he
Vendel said:
DON'T PRESUME TO KNOW WHAT I DO

:awesome:

And comments like this, derision with no specific point, are WHY there's so much retarded animosity in this fandom.
And not because people constantly visit and quote a forum they don't agree with, filled with people they don't even like. :monster:

It's not an issue because they're hiding it. It's interesting because they're hiding it.
The forum wasn't always hidden. Or even Cetra specific iirc. Also, while Tana was the most obnoxious of raiders, she was def. not the only one, don't kid yourself. There were plenty of people spamming up the forum back then.

Are we talking about the CxA forum again? Because that's pretty lame.
PEOPLE JUST LOVE IT, MAN
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
And not because people constantly visit and quote a forum they don't agree with, filled with people they don't even like. :monster:

Nope. Because at least with quoting people, PRESUMABLY a dialogue can be maintained. I actually had, in essence, a debate by proxy with Shroudy back on my Gamefaqs days when he would quote and reply to my points on CxA and I would in turn respond to him.
Going 'Lol yeah right' progresses no discussion, it advances no understanding, it is simply meaningless deflection, causing the stirred eddies of resentment to keep stirring instead of flowing out, and every discussion, every fandom needs to let those resentments fly every so often to be healthy. In most cases, the more publicly the better. Like I said, I don't disagree with vent threads. I find them interesting. Hidden ones moreso.

The forum wasn't always hidden. Or even Cetra specific iirc. Also, while Tana was the most obnoxious of raiders, she was def. not the only one, don't kid yourself. There were plenty of people spamming up the forum back then.

And there were also quite plenty of people who joined, simply disagreed, and were banned and mocked simply for not being Clerith.
The only 'Cloti' equivalent is Tana and Strifeheart, who everyone agrees is absolute shit. Hell, even most of the people here aren't too fond of Venny.
And I note you've ignored the point that my largest criticism of the CxA forums was and remains their thoughtcrime mentality, where disagreement with the party line is a bannable offense.
I'm also not sure why 'raids' necessitated the marking as private of an originally public subforum.
 

Zee

wangxian married
AKA
Zee
Nope. Because at least with quoting people, PRESUMABLY a dialogue can be maintained. I actually had, in essence, a debate by proxy with Shroudy back on my Gamefaqs days when he would quote and reply to my points on CxA and I would in turn respond to him.
Going 'Lol yeah right' progresses no discussion, it advances no understanding, it is simply meaningless deflection, causing the stirred eddies of resentment to keep stirring instead of flowing out, and every discussion, every fandom needs to let those resentments fly every so often to be healthy. In most cases, the more publicly the better. Like I said, I don't disagree with vent threads. I find them interesting. Hidden ones moreso.

i'm sure if you read this back to yourself you'd realize how fucking stupid it sounds
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
i'm sure if you read this back to yourself you'd realize how fucking stupid it sounds

Have you run out of actual responses again, Zee?
My points are simple- shitty proxy debate is better than vague and meaningless insults since at least SOMETHING of substance is shared, however nebulous it might be (and it was pretty nebulous given this was Shroudy), and public venting, actual venting of grievances is healthy for a community.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I have a question. I have never actually been to this fabled CxA forum, and I cba to start. But this thread has a reputation of, well, you know its reputation. How exactly does an entire forum remain on topic about this? Or is that not how it works?

Ariadne said:
It's almost as bad as Force and Asians.

:mal:
I was just about to thank your post too.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Honestly, if they can't bring it here, I'm not chasing it down. I don't have that much invested in it I guess...

Agreed. And that's not what we were doing in the past few posts, but that's what people are seeing? IDK MAN.

If FFG were a member here, though, I wouldn't think it okay to pick a fight with her about it here, though.

Pfft, I would. Betch is crazy.

Do we really need to constantly hunt down reasons to talk shit about a select group? It's almost as bad as Force and Asians.

Who was hunting down reasons in the past like five posts? Lol, speaking about something that happened in the past and drawing a conlusion about it, and stating an opinion is not hunting down reasons to talk shit. Oh, that Force. He's been a bad influence on us all. I think it's safe to say that anything negative is his fault. xD

Also, while Tana was the most obnoxious of raiders, she was def. not the only one, don't kid yourself. There were plenty of people spamming up the forum back then.

Yeah, people from her tarded site, lawl.
 

Zee

wangxian married
AKA
Zee
Nope, I know for a fact people outside Tana's circle raided the forum as well. :monster:

Have you run out of actual responses again, Zee?
My points are simple- shitty proxy debate is better than vague and meaningless insults since at least SOMETHING of substance is shared, however nebulous it might be (and it was pretty nebulous given this was Shroudy), and public venting, actual venting of grievances is healthy for a community.

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