The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Makoeyes987]

BTW

That doesn't mean the information in it isn't valid. The ultimanias are not part of the Compilation either but the information in them is canon, right?

You know we've had this discussion before. The Utlimanias that have come out now, with the Compilation in mind, are current and up to date to the current Compilation and story. A book written in reference to just the original game in mind is out of date. It's not written to take in mind the additional story information that's been added. So yeah, considering Dismantled is out of date and contradicting a later book, why would it be valid?

You think they now called Aerith and Zack intimate for lulz?

But wouldn't that technically mean that Square sorta... changed it or contradicted themselves? I mean it's not like it's impossible here, it wouldn't be the first time.

It's because they made the Compilation. They changed a whole lot of shit. Originally we didn't have Zack taking down an entire Shinra platoon and having him give a heartfelt deathbed confessional as he passed on the Buster Sword before he croaked. Or Cloud and Zack sharing their thoughts and feelings and all that jazz. Things change.

 

[Dashell]

Unless she got over Zack in a couple months, after five years of writing him? This is where I have trouble grasping that she really did love Cloud. Maybe formed a crush or an interest, I can understand that.

3 months I believe. The letters thing came from Crisis Core. This was before Crisis Core was written which is why I'm either saying it's a contradiction or saying she really was in love with Cloud.

Things change.

Okay so is it possible maybe Cloti wasn't always the intended couple do you think?

 

[Tifabelle]

Even if it's not considered canon (and I would say not if it came before CC), but I think it's ok to share the translations and discuss the ideas it presents.

 

[Vendel]

or saying she really was in love with Cloud.

Q what exactly are you trying to prove? We all know Cloud got Aerith's panties wet. She just didn't admit to why until an optional scene shortly before her death.

As for the status of older materials. They are fine unless new materials tell you otherwise. So for one line in dismantled we can safely say that it isn't relevant anymore. Doesn't mean everything else is irreverent.

 

[Dashell]

You know we've had this discussion before. The Utlimanias that have come out now, with the Compilation in mind, are current and up to date to the current Compilation and story. A book written in reference to just the original game in mind is out of date. It's not written to take in mind the additional story information that's been added. So yeah, considering Dismantled is out of date and contradicting a later book, why would it be valid?

Because there was never any question at all as to whether or not Dismantled was valid until I posted that, even when I brought it up just yesterday.

And technically Dismantled didn't contradict a later book, a later book contradicted Dismantled. Also where do we draw the line.. is it always, "new info over writes old" or is there a rule to this?

Q what exactly are you trying to prove? We all know Cloud got Aerith's panties wet. She just didn't admit to why until an optional scene shortly before her death.

okay here's my point

I find it very interesting that Dismantled has very little Cloti in it but focuses a lot on Cloud and Aerith. And don't say it doesn't because it does... so ... this makes me wonder if Cloti was really always the intended couple or if something else is going on.

 

[Tifabelle]

is it always, "new info over writes old" or is there a rule to this?

I would say yes.

And Vendel, I don't think she's trying to "prove" anything. She's just presenting a curiosity. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Vendel]

okay here's my point

I find it very interesting that Dismantled has very little Cloti in it but focuses a lot on Cloud and Aerith. And don't say it doesn't because it does... so ... this makes me wonder if Cloti was really always the intended couple or if something else is going on.

Great we are back to color coding the script and assigning points based on the number of mentions?

I really really dislike the "it mentions Aerith" or "C/A are within 10 ft of each other so it must be CLERITH!" line of thinking. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Dashell]

Well I've been trying to prove that Aerith was really in love with Cloud for a while now but... I mean I guess I can see why there'd be doubts with Dismantled, but why all this CxA focus is what Ii want to know.

I really really dislike the "it mentions Aaerith" or "C/T are within 10 ft of each other so it must be CLERITH!" line of thinking. It doesn't work like that.

Dude the Highwind scene isn't even mentioned in the monologues. That's like the big C/T moment. The one on the Lifestream event hardly has anything. Yet we have Cloud saying Aerith has impressive eyes, the most important thing is to unfreeze her smile and focusing on her a lot. It also talks about how great the C/A date was... there's a lot... A LOT for someone who's in love with another woman.

 

[Vendel]

Dude the Highwind scene isn't even mentioned in the monologues. That's like the big C/T moment. The one on the Lifestream event hardly has anything. Yet we have Cloud saying Aerith has impressive eyes, the most important thing is to unfreeze her smile and focusing on her a lot. It also talks about how great the C/A date was... there's a lot... A LOT for someone who's in love with another woman.

So Benny has a hard-on for Aerith. So what?

 

[Dashell]

Oh for the love of...

 

[Vendel]

Oh for the love of...

Q I have always said the dismantled stuff sounds like bad fanfiction.

 

[Dashell]

That's probably my fault for doing crappy engrishy translations

And I want to point something out here.

I KNOW a lot of us disagree on how much Aerith loved Cloud and I don't want to get into that again. There's conflicting information and this proves it. Even after Crisis Core we have CoLW.

But my question still stands. This book was never mentioned as non canon before as far as I know. Feel free to prove me wrong... so why all this focus on CxA if CxT were always the intended couple? That's what I wanna discuss here.

 

[Tifabelle]

But my question still stands. This book was never mentioned as non canon before as far as I know. Feel free to prove me wrong... so why all this focus on CxA if CxT were the intended couple?

I don't really know what's in Dismantling, but I don't think it's out of the ordinary for someone to be thinking fondly of someone they just lost. And Aerith is an iconic figure for Final Fantasy VII, hell for FF in general. Just because Cloud thinks about her doesn't necessarily make it CxA. Girl just died, so I can see why he would be remembering her.

 

[Vendel]

That's probably my fault for doing crappy engrishy translations

Don't be so hard on yourself Q. There were plenty of bad translations for it long before you started working on it.

And I want to point something out here.

I KNOW a lot of us disagree on how much Aerith loved Cloud and I don't want to get into that again.

Because you are wrong?

But my question still stands. This book was never mentioned as non canon before as far as I know. Feel free to prove me wrong... so why all this focus on CxA if CxT were the intended couple?

Because Benny has a Hard-On for Aerith?

And don't hit me with this "intended couple" shit Q. If they were the intended couple then Aerith would not have died. It's really that simple. I can't imagine the creators going "holy shit we really wanted them to hook up. But then Sephy came out of nowhere and killed her".

 

[Dashell]

I don't really know what's in Dismantling, but I don't think it's out of the ordinary for someone to be thinking fondly of someone they just lost. And Aerith is an iconic figure for Final Fantasy VII, hell for FF in general. Just because Cloud thinks about her doesn't necessarily make it CxA. Girl just died, so I can see why he would be remembering her.

Yeah but Cloud thinks about Aerith a lot BEFORE she dies. His first impression of her is that she has impressive eyes... whatever that means XD

Because Benny has a Hard-On for Aerith?

Strangely, I don't think I can argue with that

 

[Tifabelle]

Is Dismantling a story like Maiden? Besides being transplanted by time, I would say that if SE doesn't recognize it as part of the compilation, then it's completely defunct along with Maiden.

 

[Dashell]

It's a guidebook with information on the characters and some "monologues" by them and information on all the materia, monsters, different scenes, ways you can change the game and so on.

It's over 300 pages long.. .it's HUGE... but I love it

EDIT:
oh yeah interviews and stuff too.

 

[Tifabelle]

I know that it's not considered canon, but I'd have to read it. Your question of why does it seem CxA is interesting. Because maybe I wouldn't get the same impression, but it's hard to say. I would need to see it for myself in order to be able to answer your question.

 

[looneymoon]

And technically Dismantled didn't contradict a later book, a later book contradicted Dismantled. Also where do we draw the line.. is it always, "new info over writes old" or is there a rule to this?

It's like textbooks, really. Every couple of years new editions come out that supersede the old ones. This unfortunately makes it very expensive for students...

From time to time though, old obsolete information can regain popularity, and is thus republished once again in an even newer edition. Of course, these types of cycles are unlikely to happen when it comes to creator-endorsed manuals such as the FF Ultimanias... but you never know when old info can become important again. Especially since the compilation is yet unfinished.

Still, I think it's interesting to look at old content in order to deduce the mental processes going on that came to present conclusions.

 

[Dashell]

I know that it's not considered canon, but I'd have to read it. Your question of why does it seem CxA is interesting. Because maybe I wouldn't get the same impression, but it's hard to say. I would need to see it for myself in order to be able to answer your question.

It's not canon... why?
Keep in mind "part of the compilation" and "canon" are NOT the same thing.

Still, I think it's interesting to look at old content in order to deduce the mental processes going on that came to present conclusions.

I concur...
So... maybe some of the information is outdated, but I don't think that makes it all not canon. No one ever questioned Dismantled before so... why question it now? Instead of questioning official material, maybe we should be questioning our own beliefs. (in a sense that maybe Cloti wasn't always intended, not that it isn't now) It's what I'm doing anyway.

 

[Fighter]

Okay so is it possible maybe Cloti wasn't always the intended couple do you think?

If it wasn't then Aerith would have lived. The revelations in the Lifesteam scene would not exist and neither would the Highwind scene. At the end of the day those things speak for themselves.

Not to mention the little story in Ultimania about how the Highwind scene originally came to be and how more blatant it was in what it shows.

 

[Dashell]

Correct me if I'm wrong but at the time Dismantled first came out... there was no canon highwind scene... was there?... I mean yeah the Lifestream Event, but without the follow up High Affection version of the highwind scene, I don't think you can really come to a Cloti conclusion.

I mean the creators themselves said that scene conveys nothing, is apathetic and ends short.

Not to mention the little story in Ultimania about how the Highwind scene originally came to be and how more blatant it was in what it shows.

True but how do you know they weren't talking about the High Affection version?

 

[Vendel]

Correct me if I'm wrong but at the time Dismantled first came out... there was no canon highwind scene... was there?... I mean yeah the Lifestream Event, but without the follow up High Affection version of the highwind scene, I don't think you can really come to a Cloti conclusion.

No. The LS sequence tells us which HW scene is canon.

 

[Dashell]

I see what you did there.

 

[Fighter]

Correct me if I'm wrong but at the time Dismantled first came out... there was no canon highwind scene... was there?... I mean yeah the Lifestream Event, but without the follow up High Affection version of the highwind scene, I don't think you can really come to a Cloti conclusion.

I mean the creators themselves said that scene conveys nothing, is apathetic and ends short.

I would come to the Cloti conclusion. Precisely because the alternative scene says... nothing. It doesn't close the issue, it leaves it open. It doesn't tell us Cloud is rejecting Tifa, it tells us they are not communicating. It's vague at best.

It's why I also believe it wasn't the intended scene. It's incomplete, abrupt, it delicately avoids the issue. It's a carrot to people who really didn't favor Tifa during the game. I think that when they set down and wrote the story it was with the HA scene which is complete and logical and plain better.

The Lifestream scene tells me Cloud has been in love with her since childhood. And since nothing tells me he doesn't feel that way anymore I would assume that he does. I would assume that when he gets to fulfill his childhood fantasy about saving her -- what he failed to do and what was arguably the beginning of everything -- is a hint that his childhood conflict with everything it implies gets solved positively once the curtains close.

True but how do you know they weren't talking about the High Affection version?

They were.