The Final Fantasy XIV Thread [Dawntrail - 7.00]

Splintered

unsavory tart
I always thought the deal with parsing healing is that it isn't as helpful, as a a good healer never overheals and wastes mp and that can't be judged.

Parsing is illegal in FFXIV right? I wonder why. The closest thing I heard is that a lot of assholes use parsing to find the weakest dps and be dicks to them.
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
Parsing is illegal in FFXIV right? I wonder why. The closest thing I heard is that a lot of assholes use parsing to find the weakest dps and be dicks to them.

Well the thing is.

Atleast in the case of guilds that want to progress whether it be for world first progression or just to get to the next half of the content keeping an eye on peoples DPS is worth while and calling someone out who isn't pulling their weight in most MMO's is not bad form.

The reasoning is that the person half assing it just isn't wasting his own time and money he's potentially wasting 15$ of every one else in the raid group as well (sub time).

You can call telling someone their DPS is sub par being a dick but I personally think the dick is the person going in expecting a free ride or didn't take the time to learn their classes proper rotations/openers etc.
I could be biased/desensitized though. Prior to FF14 I did progression raiding in WoW and a few other MMO's and that type of environment the people expect a lot out of you. I still think there is a place and a time to call out someone who is not doing it right though. It just depends how you do it and if the person your talking to is open to criticism.

If its just LFR/Roullette and more of a casual run then yeah the guy calling out the bad DPS is a dick. Otherwise though its valid.



It's also hilarious. You guys should look up vent/mumble recordings on youtube over raid arguments especially about DPS. Shits great especially ones wiht Rignaross in it.



How not to call someone out lol.
 
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Lex

Administrator
Nope. Would not stand in general in like... the whole of Europe. I don't care how high up the virtual chain you are, you speak to me like that you get your ass booted.
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
That's the raid leader lol there's no booting him xD (edit: actually i take that back he was booted last year ish for that shit lol)
Awful as he is he got results in his prime and lead his guild to a few world first titles for progression raiding iirc.

Still makes for some hilarious stuff to watch though, unfortunately shit like this is not only common place in hardcore/progression environments its considered acceptable in most cases as well. When your competing with the entire planet to beat 10 or so bosses on the hardest difficulty when no one else has ever done it before you gotta cut the pleasantries somewhere I guess.

Even then though just trying to progress through a raid as a guild , not for the world first race but just to beat it eventually if someone isn't pulling their weight I wouldn't say calling them out is a dick move. Just don't do it like Rignaros or this guy lol

 
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Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
If I ever take games that seriously, fucking kill me.

Gonna be 30 in a year, I'm too old for this shit.
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
Ehh. Sometimes those titles make it easier to get some peripheral and hardware sponsorship for your guild or raid team so for some of those rage vids its not just time on the line it could literally be money etc.

But yeah for the most part some people go way overboard with it. It's pretty easy to forget its just a game when your 5 hours deep trying to beat one boss and you keep wiping because of 1 guy, some people take it personal and you end up with these hilarious vids online.
 
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Lex

Administrator
I understand the anger with someone who is causing repeated wipes/ holding the team back, I'm just saying there's a way to take it seriously and not be a dick about it. That dude is just like... far gone. To the point where he should absolutely see a therapist.

Tbh I probably take this game more seriously than most people I encounter, but I'm not a dick about it (to my knowledge lol).
 

Miscreant

FoolISH
AKA
Pinkfish, Fish
I always thought the deal with parsing healing is that it isn't as helpful, as a a good healer never overheals and wastes mp and that can't be judged.

Parsing is illegal in FFXIV right? I wonder why. The closest thing I heard is that a lot of assholes use parsing to find the weakest dps and be dicks to them.

Well your kind of on the mark there, as a Scholar I switch between healing and damage dealing, overhealing (which the parser does show) shows wasted healing, but really I want to consider HPS, DPS and overheals to get a good feel for how I did that pull. If my HPS is near the WHM and I'm pumping out 250+ DPS it's usually a good pull.

Yoshi-P said the rule with parsers and add ons is don't mention that you use them in public channels and then you wont get into trouble. They don't want players bullying other players for low damage, which is bloody stupid. If healers can get grief for bad healing, and tanks its obvious when they mess up, why should DPS be allowed to hide poor performance?
 

Joe

I KEEP MY IDEALS
AKA
Joe, Arcana
I understand the anger with someone who is causing repeated wipes/ holding the team back, I'm just saying there's a way to take it seriously and not be a dick about it. That dude is just like... far gone. To the point where he should absolutely see a therapist.

Tbh I probably take this game more seriously than most people I encounter, but I'm not a dick about it (to my knowledge lol).
FFXIV is incredibly casual as MMOs go so you shouldn't see anybody getting to that level of elitism for any good reason. Elsewhere it's very commonplace and acceptable depending on the raiding standards. Raids can last hours upon hours upon hours and if you're competing with your server or even the world then the stakes are high. With anything competitive there's a lot on the line and anybody not pulling their weight doesn't get a free pass.

In the case of that video there's a healer dps'ing while people die. In a hardcore raid group that's unacceptable. The dude either needs to be kicked out or yelled at and in this case he was yelled at. The raid leader is a dick about it but if the guy doesn't like it there's nothing stopping him from leaving himself.

As I said, though, there's absolutely no reason anybody should get like that in FFXIV. That would be stupidly unacceptable.
 

Miscreant

FoolISH
AKA
Pinkfish, Fish
FFXIV is incredibly casual as MMOs go so you shouldn't see anybody getting to that level of elitism for any good reason. Elsewhere it's very commonplace and acceptable depending on the raiding standards. Raids can last hours upon hours upon hours and if you're competing with your server or even the world then the stakes are high. With anything competitive there's a lot on the line and anybody not pulling their weight doesn't get a free pass.

In the case of that video there's a healer dps'ing while people die. In a hardcore raid group that's unacceptable. The dude either needs to be kicked out or yelled at and in this case he was yelled at. The raid leader is a dick about it but if the guy doesn't like it there's nothing stopping him from leaving himself.

As I said, though, there's absolutely no reason anybody should get like that in FFXIV. That would be stupidly unacceptable.

In casual content that you are running without a static it would be stupid to get like that, but the end game raiding scene in FFXIV is still pretty competitive, theres not much to compete over at the moment but as soon as Alexander HM opens things will get pretty serious for a month or so while we all compete for world/server firsts etc.
 

Joe

I KEEP MY IDEALS
AKA
Joe, Arcana
There will definitely be some competition over the first downs for Alexander, though when they release the entirety of the raid is still in question I believe. It will be interesting to see how quickly it's done.
 

Miscreant

FoolISH
AKA
Pinkfish, Fish
Oh we know when they are coming, Alexander Normal will be 2 weeks after 3.0 launch then Alexander Hard Mode will be another 2 weeks after normal.
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
I understand the anger with someone who is causing repeated wipes/ holding the team back, I'm just saying there's a way to take it seriously and not be a dick about it. That dude is just like... far gone. To the point where he should absolutely see a therapist.

Yeah thats what I was trying to get at. Calling someone out for low dps, hps or what ever can be done well and not dick-ish and then you can be like Rignaros or any other hilarious raid leader and go way over board.
 

Lex

Administrator
To use an example, if someone was say... unnecessarily popping Benediction in the middle of a raid, it would be acceptable to call that out in a static. There is a time and a place for Bene but if everyone is playing at least OK there should be no reason to ever use it. But all this ARE YOU RETARDED GO DIE SCUM HOW DARE YOU USE BENE is so unbelievably childish. (Sidebar: WHM + Dark Knight is going to be so very interesting with that zombie invulnerability thing they have).

If people are serious about raiding, I would expect some mature professionalism behind it too. Not the elitist "we r teh l33t pros" stuff, but actual mature adults who want to perform to the best of their ability in the game. I know these people exist in hardcore statics because I've encountered them. People who are helpful and friendly but get down to business when they're raiding. Some people might need to get booted from the static for performing poorly, some people might need to be corrected, but it's an environment that you don't hate yourself for being in.

I've been in two statics in XIV, and neither of them were serious enough for me. The first I was progressing faster than (back before Second Coil when I cleared T5) and the second was fairly recently where half of them were stuck on T5 and wouldn't listen to a thing anyone was telling them. Same mistakes over and over. I stayed for two nights of it before I held my hands up and told them I couldn't take it anymore. That's the opposite end of the spectrum. The leader was a little too encouraging ("you guys are doing good") which sounds nice on paper but when you get down to it, the same people were making the same mistakes and nobody was listening to the three people who had actually cleared the content. You need to individualise and you need to call out terrible players because if they join a progression static you assume they actually want to clear the damn content. It feckin boggles my mind that people are still stuck on T5 when the mechanics really aren't all that complex. And now there's like a bajillion percent echo. And as I've said before it doubly annoys me when I come to content late completely prepared for it and I end up explaining the mechanics to people who have tried it more than I have. Idgi honestly. This was using TS3. Boggles. The. Mind.

As of last night (after a long long search) I've found a new static who are on T9 and seem to be serious enough. I quizzed the recruiter for about half an hour before I joined. The first is tonight, we'll see how it goes.

EDIT: I want to make it clear that if I'm doing something wrong I would want people to tell me, particularly on DRG. I'm not super serious about WAR or WHM right now (still gearing, so a lot of lazy heal WoD runs until I can farm better content) but I can hold hate as a WAR and I can keep people maxed as a WHM and that's good enough for me.
 
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Miscreant

FoolISH
AKA
Pinkfish, Fish
My team are pretty up front with each other if we are slacking, for my self I know if I'm playing bad and own up/apologies to my group before I can be called out. But on the other had we had to pull our BLM to the side this week and tell him his dps is lacking. He's really holding back the group, he was parsing below both tanks on our raid before last and hes been practically raid logging since the start of the year. I honestly think I'm going to be kicking him soon it sucks but we have seven strong players and one who's really holding us back. I really don't want that baggage in 3.0 even if he is a nice guy.

Oh gz on finding a static, if you guys need any pointers on T9 let me know.

On the subject of T9 I've got some kill videos of our T9 Savage clear online now, it took us four three hour raids, but then in i130 we are over geared for the fight. Apparently we claimed the server 4th as well.
http://infamous90k.com/news/t9svg/
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
People are just always such assholes about it. It's always "Your DPS sucks. FIX IT AND DIAF" Never something actually useful like, "Try doing this..."
 

Lex

Administrator
Had my first run with new static tonight. It was more intense than I thought it would be, in part because I think I've found a group of people who are serious enough to want to do it and also friendly.

And of course everyone was using a parser so the pressure was on :monster:

And then I found out the raid leader is a monk who mained as a DRG since launch, so more pressure XD. We had a conversation afterwards about why I use internal release before blood for blood and whether or not it made a difference. Parse wise I was beating him until he started jumping INTO Nael's Iron Chariot to push more DPS... which he recommended I do. And I'm like... let's survive first, then push deeps XD.

Overall fun. TS was a hoot. 3 Germans, 3 Dutch, me and one English dude. Push push push moooooaaaaar.

EDIT: OK being that it's a new static and the dude knows his stuff I think I maybe should have argued back a bit more, because I was right :P

See here:

➤ Why do you recommend using Internal Release before Blood for Blood? With this approach, at lower and higher Skill Speeds alike, Internal Release will fall off just before your Life Surge-buffed Full Thrust lands. If we use IR any later than HT-(IR)-> ID, then it unnecessarily buffs that guaranteed crit, which is a waste. To put it differently, this method buffs ID —> Dis —> CT —> Phleb —> TT —> VT with Internal Release’s crit bonus, whereas using Internal Release after Impulse Drive would only buff Dis —> CT —> Phleb —> TT —> VT.

I recently re-trained on DRG using that guide and the numbers you can pump out are insane if done correctly. I'm still not sure I want to be jumping into Nael's AoE though XD
 
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Miscreant

FoolISH
AKA
Pinkfish, Fish
Trust me it's ok to jump in Naels AOE, the damage is pretty negligible & most DPS do it :D Nice job on finding a static that's driven though

We managed to get to 40% on T7 Savage last raid, if you want my advice never go in there. Mechanically it's the hardest fight I've come across -_- Renauds can only be Voiced once, and they get Voice so you have to kill them if they face the party, double Shrieks and Venomous Tail comes in sets of 2 & 4 which can wipe the party in 2 ticks if not cleansed quick enough. Add the fact that you have to time phase transitions so that the mechanics all line up.... It's chaos, But still it's a lot of fun.
 

Lex

Administrator
Trust me it's ok to jump in Naels AOE, the damage is pretty negligible & most DPS do it :D Nice job on finding a static that's driven though

He died twice from being targeted by thermionic beam and being punted out from Iron Chariot in the wrong direction. I feel like that's worse than doing slightly less damage... I mean I'm going to push more deeps but dying feels like a bad idea. Somehow I think that'll do more harm to my dps than not jumping into aoe XD.
 

Lex

Administrator
Cleared T9 - and not with the static XD. Oh lawd. I joined a huge linkshell which has loads of experienced players who do random coil runs for other people - I think it's like an anti-merc group? (People often sell runs for Gil in the party finder, this is like the opposite of that). They all just do runs together.

Voice'd with a whole group of mainly the same people last night and today, all super cool. In about 40+ runs I didn't make a single mistake... until the second last one, where we had her at 5% and I caused a wipe by going to the wrong marker with a divebomb. Ouchie, that did not feel good XD. I owned up to my mistake and people were cool about it, and we cleared it on the next run.

Finally time to farm Final Coil for my BiS stuff. Ugh so happy that's over. Epic fight.

F23mhYc.jpg
 

Miscreant

FoolISH
AKA
Pinkfish, Fish
Awesome, congrats! That was a pretty fast kill, well now you are in FCoB I can come do some runs with you I still need a couple of drops from there. Although I have gym and raid today so it will have to be in the week.
 
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