The First Epic LTD of TLS forums
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spirit_chaser
Pro Adventurer
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
There’re tons of such gaps in Cleriths so called evidence.
If Zack and Aerith weren't serious (with multiple statemnets made by SE that they were (and are) deeply in love with each other); how could then Cloud and Aerith be serious or at least real? Without actual romance going on between them or SE's statements.
Same thing goes for "relationship of the past", which Cleriths claim to be totally insignificant, yet forget that Cloud and Aerith technically are in the past too.
There’re tons of such gaps in Cleriths so called evidence.
If Zack and Aerith weren't serious (with multiple statemnets made by SE that they were (and are) deeply in love with each other); how could then Cloud and Aerith be serious or at least real? Without actual romance going on between them or SE's statements.
Same thing goes for "relationship of the past", which Cleriths claim to be totally insignificant, yet forget that Cloud and Aerith technically are in the past too.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
I still want to know what that sentence means regarding Zack and Aerith though. What the hell?
Is it stating that Zack and Aerith were platonic young lovers who first were drawn together as friends?
That's the only way that sentence makes a lick of sense. It sounds like Benny himself is playing with semantics.
Is there a more definitive sentence that speaks on their relationship? One that doesn't sound like someone on crack wrote it?
I still want to know what that sentence means regarding Zack and Aerith though. What the hell?
Is it stating that Zack and Aerith were platonic young lovers who first were drawn together as friends?
That's the only way that sentence makes a lick of sense. It sounds like Benny himself is playing with semantics.
Is there a more definitive sentence that speaks on their relationship? One that doesn't sound like someone on crack wrote it?
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
[quote author=juniper link=topic=53.msg9675#msg9675 date=1232438205]Yes, I was just curious. This chick FF_Goddess[/quote]
::Takes a moment to chuckle heartily::
Essentially. He is not listed as anything other than image illustrator, in contrast to his previous accredition as concept and character designer.
Point out that the Amano art of the previous three games only depicts friends together, as does the rest of the FFVII art.
You can also point out that even when he is the designer, they don't always go with his designed. FFIII and the white haired flourentining man, anyone?
Concept art!= finished product. Less so early promo art. Hell, the CT cover art, drawn by Toriyama, shows Marle using a fire attack, fighting in the snow outside, against a monster only encountered indoors, when it's not snowing.
[quote author=Lily Ella link=topic=53.msg9676#msg9676 date=1232438611]
As far as I know, Amano was not involved at all. I heard that he doesn't even know the outcome of the story when he draws those arts. He just draws/creates swirly art, doesn't he? He doesn't have anything to do with the story/writing. Some peeps here would have more info. FF_Goddess doesn't know what she's talking about, as usual.
Gonna be mean here, but do people honestly listen to that chick? I always thought that most people in this fandom regarded her as a joke.[/quote]
They do. It's the small minority that see her as the next coming ofAerith Jesus are screwy as all hell.
[quote author=spirit chaser link=topic=53.msg9749#msg9749 date=1232476797]
There’re tons of such gaps in Cleriths so called evidence.
If Zack and Aerith weren't serious (with multiple statemnets made by SE that they were (and are) deeply in love with each other); how could then Cloud and Aerith be serious or at least real? Without actual romance going on between them or SE's statements.[/quote]
Because the Clerii say so, that's how. But yes, A relationship nurtured over two years, in which the woman wrote letters to her missing man for four years after he went missing at a rate of at least one a fortnight, and still wore his ribbon, and pink in general in anticipation of their promise a year after that, and chased after another man based on his similarities to her old flame means nothing.
But a relationship over the course of a maximum of four weeks, in which they never truly got to know each other, that's true love. Even when the story goes out of its way to emphasize how important to the guy how important the other woman is. Holes doesn't begin to describe it.
But but but that's totally different.... because thing!
Mako: There are several. As for that sentence, "Drawn together as friends, Zack and Aerith are chaste young lovers" is how I'd deal with it, to make it a readable sentence.
[quote author=juniper link=topic=53.msg9675#msg9675 date=1232438205]Yes, I was just curious. This chick FF_Goddess[/quote]
::Takes a moment to chuckle heartily::
Essentially. He is not listed as anything other than image illustrator, in contrast to his previous accredition as concept and character designer.
Point out that the Amano art of the previous three games only depicts friends together, as does the rest of the FFVII art.
You can also point out that even when he is the designer, they don't always go with his designed. FFIII and the white haired flourentining man, anyone?
Concept art!= finished product. Less so early promo art. Hell, the CT cover art, drawn by Toriyama, shows Marle using a fire attack, fighting in the snow outside, against a monster only encountered indoors, when it's not snowing.
[quote author=Lily Ella link=topic=53.msg9676#msg9676 date=1232438611]
As far as I know, Amano was not involved at all. I heard that he doesn't even know the outcome of the story when he draws those arts. He just draws/creates swirly art, doesn't he? He doesn't have anything to do with the story/writing. Some peeps here would have more info. FF_Goddess doesn't know what she's talking about, as usual.
Gonna be mean here, but do people honestly listen to that chick? I always thought that most people in this fandom regarded her as a joke.[/quote]
They do. It's the small minority that see her as the next coming of
[quote author=spirit chaser link=topic=53.msg9749#msg9749 date=1232476797]
There’re tons of such gaps in Cleriths so called evidence.
If Zack and Aerith weren't serious (with multiple statemnets made by SE that they were (and are) deeply in love with each other); how could then Cloud and Aerith be serious or at least real? Without actual romance going on between them or SE's statements.[/quote]
Because the Clerii say so, that's how. But yes, A relationship nurtured over two years, in which the woman wrote letters to her missing man for four years after he went missing at a rate of at least one a fortnight, and still wore his ribbon, and pink in general in anticipation of their promise a year after that, and chased after another man based on his similarities to her old flame means nothing.
But a relationship over the course of a maximum of four weeks, in which they never truly got to know each other, that's true love. Even when the story goes out of its way to emphasize how important to the guy how important the other woman is. Holes doesn't begin to describe it.
But but but that's totally different.... because thing!
Mako: There are several. As for that sentence, "Drawn together as friends, Zack and Aerith are chaste young lovers" is how I'd deal with it, to make it a readable sentence.
H
dead
- AKA
- Oryx, Debussy, Hatsumimi
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
If this is the same FF_Goddess from Devotion that jumped on me like a rabid llama (her and her pack, except for rena) the moment I corrected someone who said that "Cloud only made a promise to Aeris," by pointing out that " Cloud also promised Tifa that he would come and save her," then you're wasting your time.
I have from a very reliable source (my native Japanese friend), that she only speaks in Cleris Swahili. Unfortunately, according to another reliable source (my nikkei cousin from Florida), there is not yet a dictionary compiling any known Cleris Swahili.
If this is the same FF_Goddess from Devotion that jumped on me like a rabid llama (her and her pack, except for rena) the moment I corrected someone who said that "Cloud only made a promise to Aeris," by pointing out that " Cloud also promised Tifa that he would come and save her," then you're wasting your time.
I have from a very reliable source (my native Japanese friend), that she only speaks in Cleris Swahili. Unfortunately, according to another reliable source (my nikkei cousin from Florida), there is not yet a dictionary compiling any known Cleris Swahili.
OneWingedDemon
NOT AMUSED
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
Hi, Cleris so-called translators.
English is a language that heavily depends on word order, so much in fact that nothing makes sense when you don't adhere to this rule.
"dog bites man" and "man bites dog" are completely different, depending on what you shove where.
So, before you attempt to "translate" make sure you know Japanese AND English. I'm sure meaning can be carried over easily if we don't try to fit the translation to our fantasies.
Thank you
It is clear these people have never tried translating any language over to English, or any other language for that matter. Sentence structure, boys and girls. Not every language uses word order as English does. Will these idiots get it through their head? It's such a bother going against so much stupid.
All this confusion stems from them trying to break something to pieces and then arrange it as they see fit. Too bad it doesn't work that way and they're just making fools of themselves. No worries, everyone knows it.
It's why FFG won't come out into the open to defend this bullshit.
And yes, that'd be the same FF_G. There can only be one
Hi, Cleris so-called translators.
English is a language that heavily depends on word order, so much in fact that nothing makes sense when you don't adhere to this rule.
"dog bites man" and "man bites dog" are completely different, depending on what you shove where.
So, before you attempt to "translate" make sure you know Japanese AND English. I'm sure meaning can be carried over easily if we don't try to fit the translation to our fantasies.
Thank you
It is clear these people have never tried translating any language over to English, or any other language for that matter. Sentence structure, boys and girls. Not every language uses word order as English does. Will these idiots get it through their head? It's such a bother going against so much stupid.
All this confusion stems from them trying to break something to pieces and then arrange it as they see fit. Too bad it doesn't work that way and they're just making fools of themselves. No worries, everyone knows it.
It's why FFG won't come out into the open to defend this bullshit.
And yes, that'd be the same FF_G. There can only be one
spirit_chaser
Pro Adventurer
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
[quote author=Ryushikaze link=topic=53.msg9780#msg9780 date=1232479668]Because the Clerii say so, that's how. But yes, A relationship nurtured over two years, in which the woman wrote letters to her missing man for four years after he went missing at a rate of at least one a fortnight, and still wore his ribbon, and pink in general in anticipation of their promise a year after that, and chased after another man based on his similarities to her old flame means nothing.
But a relationship over the course of a maximum of four weeks, in which they never truly got to know each other, that's true love. Even when the story goes out of its way to emphasize how important to the guy how important the other woman is. Holes doesn't begin to describe it.[/quote]
When I pointed it all out for them, Devotion's Alantie wrote that I "got problem with her essays", in which she states that Crisis Core revealed nothing new on LT.
http://www.clerith.com/ZARelationship.htm
http://www.clerith.com/PastRelationships.htm
Those are really amusing read.
I love how she tries to portray Zack as a big flirt, who is not serious with Aerith; and Aerith seeing Zack as a friend/brother, rather than lover. And their relationship in general as some obscure crush, long forgotten and never significant in the first place.
[quote author=Ryushikaze link=topic=53.msg9780#msg9780 date=1232479668]Because the Clerii say so, that's how. But yes, A relationship nurtured over two years, in which the woman wrote letters to her missing man for four years after he went missing at a rate of at least one a fortnight, and still wore his ribbon, and pink in general in anticipation of their promise a year after that, and chased after another man based on his similarities to her old flame means nothing.
But a relationship over the course of a maximum of four weeks, in which they never truly got to know each other, that's true love. Even when the story goes out of its way to emphasize how important to the guy how important the other woman is. Holes doesn't begin to describe it.[/quote]
When I pointed it all out for them, Devotion's Alantie wrote that I "got problem with her essays", in which she states that Crisis Core revealed nothing new on LT.
http://www.clerith.com/ZARelationship.htm
http://www.clerith.com/PastRelationships.htm
Those are really amusing read.
I love how she tries to portray Zack as a big flirt, who is not serious with Aerith; and Aerith seeing Zack as a friend/brother, rather than lover. And their relationship in general as some obscure crush, long forgotten and never significant in the first place.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
Do they just close their ears to the actual black and white text that says they're lovers? I mean, their profiles specifically state this. How can they say they weren't...?
Oh rite. The translations are biased. My bad
Do they just close their ears to the actual black and white text that says they're lovers? I mean, their profiles specifically state this. How can they say they weren't...?
Oh rite. The translations are biased. My bad
spirit_chaser
Pro Adventurer
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
lol. In one of my recent debates, where I was refering to Ultimanias and other books SE published, I recieved such an answer from a Clerith:
You can't fight them with books, you know =D
lol. In one of my recent debates, where I was refering to Ultimanias and other books SE published, I recieved such an answer from a Clerith:
You can't fight them with books, you know =D
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
Well then they're just retarded.
Well then they're just retarded.
OneWingedDemon
NOT AMUSED
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
That's not news either
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
You need to drag whoever said this out of their hole to actually discuss this. Or publically decry and humiliate them.
I dunno, just call them out. Because posting here just isn't enough
You need to drag whoever said this out of their hole to actually discuss this. Or publically decry and humiliate them.
I dunno, just call them out. Because posting here just isn't enough
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
[quote author=spirit chaser link=topic=53.msg9842#msg9842 date=1232487613]
lol. In one of my recent debates, where I was refering to Ultimanias and other books SE published, I recieved such an answer from a Clerith:
You can't fight them with books, you know =D
[/quote]
On another forum I had someone ask what would happen if down the road another Ultimania was published that stated that Cloud married the local materia shop girl, to which I responded by saying that if an Ultimania actually said it then it would be canon and there would be no debate against it whether anyone liked the idea or not.
I think they may have been expecting me to say that Coti would still be canon so that they could discredit the Ultimanias.
[quote author=spirit chaser link=topic=53.msg9842#msg9842 date=1232487613]
lol. In one of my recent debates, where I was refering to Ultimanias and other books SE published, I recieved such an answer from a Clerith:
You can't fight them with books, you know =D
[/quote]
On another forum I had someone ask what would happen if down the road another Ultimania was published that stated that Cloud married the local materia shop girl, to which I responded by saying that if an Ultimania actually said it then it would be canon and there would be no debate against it whether anyone liked the idea or not.
I think they may have been expecting me to say that Coti would still be canon so that they could discredit the Ultimanias.
spirit_chaser
Pro Adventurer
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
Oh, I did! But she's busy
lolz!
That guy was actually demanding scans of the quotes I provided, and I was asking him what was the point for it, if he doesn't believe the translations and can't understand Japanese himself?
Since he ignored one scan I posted, I figured he was just trying to avoid the actual debate. :
You need to drag whoever said this out of their hole to actually discuss this. Or publically decry and humiliate them.
I dunno, just call them out. Because posting here just isn't enough
Oh, I did! But she's busy
On another forum I had someone ask what would happen if down the road another Ultimania was published that stated that Cloud married the local materia shop girl, to which I responded by saying that if an Ultimania actually said it then it would be canon and there would be no debate against it whether anyone liked the idea or not.
I think they may have been expecting me to say that Coti would still be canon so that they could discredit the Ultimanias.
lolz!
That guy was actually demanding scans of the quotes I provided, and I was asking him what was the point for it, if he doesn't believe the translations and can't understand Japanese himself?
Since he ignored one scan I posted, I figured he was just trying to avoid the actual debate. :
OneWingedDemon
NOT AMUSED
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
God forbid the ribbon looks lighter and aged when years pass. Nope. Aeris never takes it off or washes her hair.
Like that has worked before. They'd never come out because they know everyone will laugh at them outside the borders of the pink. LOL
To show how they are NOT a couple and how much Aeris totally forgot about him, despite writing him obsessively for 4 years.
God forbid the ribbon looks lighter and aged when years pass. Nope. Aeris never takes it off or washes her hair.
Restless
That One Person
- AKA
- WAW
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
[quote author=OneWingedDemon link=topic=53.msg9877#msg9877 date=1232491069]God forbid the ribbon looks lighter and aged when years pass. Nope. Aeris never takes it off or washes her hair.
[/quote]
Seriously. Plenty of things can happen in a few years. People can improve in their ability to tie a ribbon, the ribbon can fray, it can get dirty, the color can fade, a person may try out new styles...Or, if it's beyond repair, they can keep the old one safe and buy a new one, so they still feel connected to that one gift, even if they can't use it.
Of course...A lot of stuff that person wrote can easily be countered.
[quote author=OneWingedDemon link=topic=53.msg9877#msg9877 date=1232491069]God forbid the ribbon looks lighter and aged when years pass. Nope. Aeris never takes it off or washes her hair.
[/quote]
Seriously. Plenty of things can happen in a few years. People can improve in their ability to tie a ribbon, the ribbon can fray, it can get dirty, the color can fade, a person may try out new styles...Or, if it's beyond repair, they can keep the old one safe and buy a new one, so they still feel connected to that one gift, even if they can't use it.
Of course...A lot of stuff that person wrote can easily be countered.
Dawnbreaker
~The Other Side of Fear~
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
Anybody who gets into an excessively heated argument over whether an imaginary character is meant to be with one imaginary character over another needs to log off the netz more often. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but honestly, it's a video game. Life has way more important shit to worry about.
I don't have a strong opinion on this one way or another, but maybe that's because I don't give a crap about Cloud. Frankly, I think Tifa and Aerith ought to ditch his sorry ass, but that's not the question here. xD
That said, I think it's not beyond any logic that there was an inkling of romance between Aerith and Cloud. Saying she's like his mother or sister is plain weird, because she talks to him like Zack, her old boyfriend and they go on a date together and Cait Sith, if you set it up properly even says they're star-crossed, which he feels bad for Tifa (which makes his prediction stupid, because Aerith kicks the bucket shortly thereafter). I doubt most boys do that with their mother or sister.
This whole "childhood" thing between Tifa and Cloud is pretty insignificant, mainly because Tifa barely notices Cloud exists. Yet she suddenly wants him to come "save her". I have no clue what logic that all makes, but she's a kid, so that's probably it. The promise is all they have from that, and that's pretty small, considering how little they interacted before or much after.
But I do believe that Tifa and Cloud were smartening up near the end of FF7, realizing that they really needed to start behaving like they care before they all die from Meteor (good incentive to actually give a shit in life). Sadly, most of that is destoried in FF7AC because Cloud is back to running off again, and Tifa's back to expecting him to save her, making me feel like they learned nothing at all.
Logically and realistically speaking neither of them has much together, though if they were to put their heart into it (and SE stops fucking around) they could find themselves together in the end.
But I doubt it.
Anybody who gets into an excessively heated argument over whether an imaginary character is meant to be with one imaginary character over another needs to log off the netz more often. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but honestly, it's a video game. Life has way more important shit to worry about.
I don't have a strong opinion on this one way or another, but maybe that's because I don't give a crap about Cloud. Frankly, I think Tifa and Aerith ought to ditch his sorry ass, but that's not the question here. xD
That said, I think it's not beyond any logic that there was an inkling of romance between Aerith and Cloud. Saying she's like his mother or sister is plain weird, because she talks to him like Zack, her old boyfriend and they go on a date together and Cait Sith, if you set it up properly even says they're star-crossed, which he feels bad for Tifa (which makes his prediction stupid, because Aerith kicks the bucket shortly thereafter). I doubt most boys do that with their mother or sister.
This whole "childhood" thing between Tifa and Cloud is pretty insignificant, mainly because Tifa barely notices Cloud exists. Yet she suddenly wants him to come "save her". I have no clue what logic that all makes, but she's a kid, so that's probably it. The promise is all they have from that, and that's pretty small, considering how little they interacted before or much after.
But I do believe that Tifa and Cloud were smartening up near the end of FF7, realizing that they really needed to start behaving like they care before they all die from Meteor (good incentive to actually give a shit in life). Sadly, most of that is destoried in FF7AC because Cloud is back to running off again, and Tifa's back to expecting him to save her, making me feel like they learned nothing at all.
Logically and realistically speaking neither of them has much together, though if they were to put their heart into it (and SE stops fucking around) they could find themselves together in the end.
But I doubt it.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
How can there be an inkling of romance between Cloud and Aerith, if Aerith never knew the real Cloud to begin with, and she admits that the reason she first was attacted to Cloud, was due to the "Zack" she saw in him? That's a romance based entirely on false pretenses. By the time Aerith puts two-and-two together, she's more worried about Cloud getting his head together than seeing him as a romantic interest.
While the attraction Cloud and Tifa share is young, that can be said about all the other teenage protagonists in Final Fantasy, and it hardly diminishes it as insignificant. A promise is a promise, and Tifa falls in love with him for it. The fact that their feelings have stayed so true for each other for that length of time over a promise, demonstrates some realness between the two. Their feelings were conveyed and if they're able to shack up and live with each other as a family, frankly there's something going on between the two. They've been through too much and shared too much to just be "friends."
Cloud and Tifa have shared a lot together, especially since Tifa is the closest living person there is to Cloud.
How can there be an inkling of romance between Cloud and Aerith, if Aerith never knew the real Cloud to begin with, and she admits that the reason she first was attacted to Cloud, was due to the "Zack" she saw in him? That's a romance based entirely on false pretenses. By the time Aerith puts two-and-two together, she's more worried about Cloud getting his head together than seeing him as a romantic interest.
While the attraction Cloud and Tifa share is young, that can be said about all the other teenage protagonists in Final Fantasy, and it hardly diminishes it as insignificant. A promise is a promise, and Tifa falls in love with him for it. The fact that their feelings have stayed so true for each other for that length of time over a promise, demonstrates some realness between the two. Their feelings were conveyed and if they're able to shack up and live with each other as a family, frankly there's something going on between the two. They've been through too much and shared too much to just be "friends."
Cloud and Tifa have shared a lot together, especially since Tifa is the closest living person there is to Cloud.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
Z/A: Zack and Aerith were actually the ones who got 'like a lover' In one of their CC Ultimania profiles (Aerith's?) it says:
???????
Relationship that is like lovers
The bolded part is thing missing from the Tifa one
Zack's sky promise: Right after she says she's scared of the open sky, Zack does the whole 'look into my eyes' and she says she wouldn't be scared if the sky was like that.
[quote author=OneWingedDemon link=topic=53.msg9824#msg9824 date=1232485326]
Hi, Cleris so-called translators.
English is a language that heavily depends on word order, so much in fact that nothing makes sense when you don't adhere to this rule. [/quote]
That's a problem, because Japanese doesn't As long as the verb comes at the end, you can mix the rest around freely (and you can kind of move the verb around as well).
Which is why literal translating is bad
Except for the Potion/FFVII 10th Anniversary one, all can be bought at many fine retailers.
On a similar note, someone brought up Japanese fans asking online what the relationship between Cloud and Tifa was, saying that if they're asking these things then it can't have been answered by the Ultimanias/Reunion Files/what have you. But just because they're Japanese, doesn't mean they're any different from English fans who don't know what some English companion book about a series they might like says. If some causal Lord of the Rings fan doesn't know what Tolkin's letters say about Pippin/Frodo, does that mean that nothing said in them means anything because everyone in the world doesn't know about it?
Not every fan is going to be a big enough geek to go out and buy and read all these book. Unlikeme some people
Now excuse me, I've got a life to get back to
Z/A: Zack and Aerith were actually the ones who got 'like a lover'
In one of their CC Ultimania profiles (Aerith's?) it says:???????
Relationship that is like lovers
The bolded part is thing missing from the Tifa one
Zack's sky promise: Right after she says she's scared of the open sky, Zack does the whole 'look into my eyes' and she says she wouldn't be scared if the sky was like that.
[quote author=OneWingedDemon link=topic=53.msg9824#msg9824 date=1232485326]
Hi, Cleris so-called translators.
English is a language that heavily depends on word order, so much in fact that nothing makes sense when you don't adhere to this rule. [/quote]
That's a problem, because Japanese doesn't
As long as the verb comes at the end, you can mix the rest around freely (and you can kind of move the verb around as well).Which is why literal translating is bad
If Ultimanias weren't actually pretty easy to obtain, this might have a point
Except for the Potion/FFVII 10th Anniversary one, all can be bought at many fine retailers.On a similar note, someone brought up Japanese fans asking online what the relationship between Cloud and Tifa was, saying that if they're asking these things then it can't have been answered by the Ultimanias/Reunion Files/what have you. But just because they're Japanese, doesn't mean they're any different from English fans who don't know what some English companion book about a series they might like says. If some causal Lord of the Rings fan doesn't know what Tolkin's letters say about Pippin/Frodo, does that mean that nothing said in them means anything because everyone in the world doesn't know about it?
Not every fan is going to be a big enough geek to go out and buy and read all these book. Unlike
Now excuse me, I've got a life to get back to
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
Well, Daryl, if you really feel that all ship debaters need to get off the internet, then I invite you to go tell that to the peeps and the Cloud and Aerith forum. You'd probably be doing the internet a huge favor if you were to actually succeed.
Watch out, though, if they don't like you they'll devote entire threads to your ridicule. Probably photoshoping your face into very demeaning pictures (truth).
Well, Daryl, if you really feel that all ship debaters need to get off the internet, then I invite you to go tell that to the peeps and the Cloud and Aerith forum. You'd probably be doing the internet a huge favor if you were to actually succeed.
Watch out, though, if they don't like you they'll devote entire threads to your ridicule. Probably photoshoping your face into very demeaning pictures (truth).
Dawnbreaker
~The Other Side of Fear~
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
Being romantically attraced to someone who happens to be a lot like someone else you dated is hardly anything new in life. Granted, this situation is unique, but apparently it's the similarities between Zack and Cloud that draw her to Cloud, and I doubt it's only those attributes to him. I don't think they were "in love" but there was an attraction. Just because it's based on something messed up doesn't mean it can't exist.
And what of Cloud? If he felt nothing for her, why would he date her? Why would they be "star-crossed" and why would he mourn for her so deeply? She's nothing like Tifa, and certainly is "herself" throughout the entire time (abliet from a dying race, which he only learned much later after she died).
As for the Tifa-Cloud promise, yes, I consider it pretty insignificant on the basis that Tifa and Cloud had nothing else at the time. It seemed more of a childish bit of fun on Tifa's part, while Cloud was actually genuinely interested. I never ever got the impression that Tifa fell in love with Cloud over that, but rather when he comes back years later and she gets to know him (well, after he gets rid of his Zack persona and she gets to REALLY know him).
At what point are they shacked up or living together? I must have missed that. And if they were, Cloud sure runs off again, kllling that hope during the events of FF7AC. Although, who knows, maybe after FF7AC he finally settles down, gets all the screwy stuff outta his head and makes a life with her.
Although I highly disagree with the whole "been through too much to just be friends". Anyone who's had deep feelings/lived with someone/married/etc. and remained friends with this person can honestly say that so long as both parties are civil they can remain friends.
Edit: Where did I say all ship debator should get off the netz? I said anyone who got "excessively heated" debate should get off the net, Clerith, Cloti, Clephiroth (*shudders), etc. etc. Anyone who ever gets into a really nasty argument over something like that ought to log off for a bit.
Being romantically attraced to someone who happens to be a lot like someone else you dated is hardly anything new in life. Granted, this situation is unique, but apparently it's the similarities between Zack and Cloud that draw her to Cloud, and I doubt it's only those attributes to him. I don't think they were "in love" but there was an attraction. Just because it's based on something messed up doesn't mean it can't exist.
And what of Cloud? If he felt nothing for her, why would he date her? Why would they be "star-crossed" and why would he mourn for her so deeply? She's nothing like Tifa, and certainly is "herself" throughout the entire time (abliet from a dying race, which he only learned much later after she died).
As for the Tifa-Cloud promise, yes, I consider it pretty insignificant on the basis that Tifa and Cloud had nothing else at the time. It seemed more of a childish bit of fun on Tifa's part, while Cloud was actually genuinely interested. I never ever got the impression that Tifa fell in love with Cloud over that, but rather when he comes back years later and she gets to know him (well, after he gets rid of his Zack persona and she gets to REALLY know him).
At what point are they shacked up or living together? I must have missed that. And if they were, Cloud sure runs off again, kllling that hope during the events of FF7AC. Although, who knows, maybe after FF7AC he finally settles down, gets all the screwy stuff outta his head and makes a life with her.
Although I highly disagree with the whole "been through too much to just be friends". Anyone who's had deep feelings/lived with someone/married/etc. and remained friends with this person can honestly say that so long as both parties are civil they can remain friends.
Edit: Where did I say all ship debator should get off the netz? I said anyone who got "excessively heated" debate should get off the net, Clerith, Cloti, Clephiroth (*shudders), etc. etc. Anyone who ever gets into a really nasty argument over something like that ought to log off for a bit.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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- Smooth Criminal
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
Aerith was attracted to Cloud, but Cloud wasn't attracted to her. And hell, Cloud wasn't even fully "Cloud" or in his true frame of mind when he did date her. And if you say that Cloud and Tifa's promise is insignificant, then Aerith and Cloud must be non-existent because not only is it based on false pretenses, but Cloud isn't even himself in the first place. At least with Cloud and Tifa, their promise and commitment was done with Cloud as himself, and Cloud actually expresses his true feelings to her.
Cloud and Tifa may have not been close at the time, but they *do* end up close, and they *do* end up committed and exchanging their feelings. Sometimes people end up together and attracted to each other from just saying "hi" on the street, but if they end up together, that was the point of contact. It's the same for Cloud and Tifa. What started as a promise laid the foundation for their closeness. It's certainly more than the false persona Aerith saw in Cloud that reminded her of her late, true love boyfriend, Zack.
Cloud and Tifa live together post FFVII. Yeah, Cloud leaves but he leaves because he's dying and despairs. He leaves Tifa not because he doesn't love her, but because he does and he's happy. He couldn't stand seeing his happy life fade so he ran off to die alone. And yes, Cloud returns to Tifa at the end and remains with them into Dirge of Cerberus.
And while what you say about true feelings is true, Cloud and Tifa have no reason *to* just remain friends, especially with how they feel for each other and they both have attraction for one another. It just doesn't make sense.
Aerith was attracted to Cloud, but Cloud wasn't attracted to her. And hell, Cloud wasn't even fully "Cloud" or in his true frame of mind when he did date her. And if you say that Cloud and Tifa's promise is insignificant, then Aerith and Cloud must be non-existent because not only is it based on false pretenses, but Cloud isn't even himself in the first place. At least with Cloud and Tifa, their promise and commitment was done with Cloud as himself, and Cloud actually expresses his true feelings to her.
Cloud and Tifa may have not been close at the time, but they *do* end up close, and they *do* end up committed and exchanging their feelings. Sometimes people end up together and attracted to each other from just saying "hi" on the street, but if they end up together, that was the point of contact. It's the same for Cloud and Tifa. What started as a promise laid the foundation for their closeness. It's certainly more than the false persona Aerith saw in Cloud that reminded her of her late, true love boyfriend, Zack.
Cloud and Tifa live together post FFVII. Yeah, Cloud leaves but he leaves because he's dying and despairs. He leaves Tifa not because he doesn't love her, but because he does and he's happy. He couldn't stand seeing his happy life fade so he ran off to die alone. And yes, Cloud returns to Tifa at the end and remains with them into Dirge of Cerberus.
And while what you say about true feelings is true, Cloud and Tifa have no reason *to* just remain friends, especially with how they feel for each other and they both have attraction for one another. It just doesn't make sense.
Dawnbreaker
~The Other Side of Fear~
Re: Love Triangle Discussion
Cloud may not have been in the right frame of mind, but, unless I'm missing something out of FF7's very convulted storyline, that doesn't mean he had no capacity for attraction. You're equating love with attraction. Not the same thing. Cloud might have been attracted to Aerith, but not necessarily in love with her. In fact, I don't think either of them was, but that they were attracted to each other. There's too many shared moments for there feelings to be indisputable platonic.
I consider the Tifa-Cloud promise as insignificant because a) they're both kids and promises as kids mean well, pretty much nothing b) Tifa shows NO other affection for Cloud whatsoever (that I'm aware of). It seemed much more like a fanciful thing on the part of a young girl. If there really was closeness that would have been shown in much more depth, with many more scnes of mutual interaction. In fact, its made very clear that Tifa is way more intersted in other boys and her personal problems than Cloud at all. In fact, the only interest she shows is when he's leaving. I do not consider that closeness.
Where are given indisputable proof that Cloud and Tifa live together? I'm not denying this is true, but I was never given any indication aside from "he's not here anymore" which might be that he worked with her (from the Strife Delivery Service message) but no indication that they were living together or in a committed relationship.
Also if you leave someone, even if you "love" them, without any good reason why, then that shows you really weren't that in love, IMO. That's not love, IMO. That's a sign of some issues that need to sorted through individually before the issues of the relationship can be sorted through.
I do much perfer Tifa-Cloud over Aerith-Cloud and do believe they're the quinessential couple, but at this point there's not enough evidence to em to prove that they're at the stage of a committed, real relationship.
Cloud may not have been in the right frame of mind, but, unless I'm missing something out of FF7's very convulted storyline, that doesn't mean he had no capacity for attraction. You're equating love with attraction. Not the same thing. Cloud might have been attracted to Aerith, but not necessarily in love with her. In fact, I don't think either of them was, but that they were attracted to each other. There's too many shared moments for there feelings to be indisputable platonic.
I consider the Tifa-Cloud promise as insignificant because a) they're both kids and promises as kids mean well, pretty much nothing b) Tifa shows NO other affection for Cloud whatsoever (that I'm aware of). It seemed much more like a fanciful thing on the part of a young girl. If there really was closeness that would have been shown in much more depth, with many more scnes of mutual interaction. In fact, its made very clear that Tifa is way more intersted in other boys and her personal problems than Cloud at all. In fact, the only interest she shows is when he's leaving. I do not consider that closeness.
Where are given indisputable proof that Cloud and Tifa live together? I'm not denying this is true, but I was never given any indication aside from "he's not here anymore" which might be that he worked with her (from the Strife Delivery Service message) but no indication that they were living together or in a committed relationship.
Also if you leave someone, even if you "love" them, without any good reason why, then that shows you really weren't that in love, IMO. That's not love, IMO. That's a sign of some issues that need to sorted through individually before the issues of the relationship can be sorted through.
I do much perfer Tifa-Cloud over Aerith-Cloud and do believe they're the quinessential couple, but at this point there's not enough evidence to em to prove that they're at the stage of a committed, real relationship.
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