ForceStealer
Double Growth
I'm confident that any writer in the entertainment industry is familiar with the term and is aware of it while they're making it.
And it's not like it doesn't work
And it's not like it doesn't work
The Game Awards 2020
- Thread starter looneymoon
- Start date
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
I have a hard time swallowing the "Oscar bait" term as something wholly relevant to video games? idk.
I think there's a decent argument that TLOU2 intentionally baited a certain kind of reaction while being pretentious about it. Druckmann said he looked to MGS2 as inspiration, and Kojima unequivocally baits in a similar manner so...
I think there's a decent argument that TLOU2 intentionally baited a certain kind of reaction while being pretentious about it. Druckmann said he looked to MGS2 as inspiration, and Kojima unequivocally baits in a similar manner so...
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
"Oscar bait" is kind of hard to define (that particular pretentiousness looney mentioned perhaps does it), but it's a very real thing. You know it when you see it -- e.g. the trailers for "Joker," or everything from the trailers to the final shot of TLoU2.
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
To me "Oscar-bait" communicates a project that's got a boomer-y, out of touch flair that makes a serious/nuanced topic very palatable to a mass audience (eg. biopics of "controversial" figures, or concerning topics like slavery or the Holocaust without having much nuance or anything personal to say about the subject) - and also released during a particular season (fall/winter), with a subsequent sponsored Oscar campaign (because of the dumb way the voting system works). I kinda get the sentiment around calling TLOU2 as Oscar-bait, but the very fact that the VGA's give some weight to a public voting system makes me think it really doesn't fit the description.
Whatever the game does to tick people off, it was... for the most part*, being intentionally divisive - which is the antithesis of Oscar-bait imo. I do think it's genuine in its attempt to be inclusive for a subset of gamers generally ignored by mainstream gaming culture (accessibility options in game design, being focused on mostly women and LGBTQ+ people). If there was a pre-established framework that systematically awarded this kind stuff in gaming by virtue (in the way that mediocre biopics/Holocaust/slave films are in Hollywood) I'd be more inclined to maybe see it?
I mean it definitely gets in the way of itself by goading a certain response from reactionary gamers. I could see the Kojima-effect becoming the VG-equivalent of "Oscar-bait," but the way Death Stranding and TLOU2 have been received makes me not particularly worried about that being A Thing.
...funny enough, while I'm not sure if TLOU2 is 2020's MGS2, I do see it being the 2020 successor to 2019's Death Stranding. If you asked me in 2019 that we'd see something with more division come out in the next year, I'd be like how???
Whatever the game does to tick people off, it was... for the most part*, being intentionally divisive - which is the antithesis of Oscar-bait imo. I do think it's genuine in its attempt to be inclusive for a subset of gamers generally ignored by mainstream gaming culture (accessibility options in game design, being focused on mostly women and LGBTQ+ people). If there was a pre-established framework that systematically awarded this kind stuff in gaming by virtue (in the way that mediocre biopics/Holocaust/slave films are in Hollywood) I'd be more inclined to maybe see it?
I mean it definitely gets in the way of itself by goading a certain response from reactionary gamers. I could see the Kojima-effect becoming the VG-equivalent of "Oscar-bait," but the way Death Stranding and TLOU2 have been received makes me not particularly worried about that being A Thing.
...funny enough, while I'm not sure if TLOU2 is 2020's MGS2, I do see it being the 2020 successor to 2019's Death Stranding. If you asked me in 2019 that we'd see something with more division come out in the next year, I'd be like how???
Last edited:
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
See, I feel like it does that. It comes off very convinced that it's got something poignant and novel to say about vengeance, but I feel like "Zombieland" said the same thing more succinctly in its first half hour and in a much more fun way -- and without giving off the impression it was an observation that had never occurred to the audience before.
But yeah, I'll give that I think there was some sincerity in the attempts at inclusion, and perhaps that particular element of reveling in patting itself on the back about shining a light wouldn't seem quite so cringey were those subsets of gamers more visible to begin with? Oh well. Impossible to speculate with confidence about an alternate universe.
Just seems safe to say there was a preoccupation there in which the game thinks it's more clever than it is -- and likewise with the "lesson" on revenge and retaliation.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
It's not the inclusivity that makes it "bait"-like to me. It's the oppressive misery as a shortcut to "Art," and yeah, the sense that it thinks itself cleverer than it is.
Last edited:
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Yeah, that's fair. Really, it's the intersection of all those things that screams "I'm relevant." But when you ask for the "why," it doesn't have a lot to answer with.
Not to say that it isn't a masterfully constructed piece of work, though; the quality that goes into the design of it all is pretty much beyond reproach.
Not to say that it isn't a masterfully constructed piece of work, though; the quality that goes into the design of it all is pretty much beyond reproach.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
"Oscar-bait" games are a helluva lot better than their movie counterparts.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
That is true
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I doubt it too, I've merely used it as shorthand for the sort of design philosophy it shares with movies that garner the label.
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
When it comes to "revenge plots"... the ones that surprise me are the ones that not only (a) let someone successfully get revenge in the first place, but (b) let the person getting revenge genuinely feel good about how their revenge turned out. The "moral" of "revenge doesn't make you feel better like you think it will" is honestly rather old by this point if you take a look at literature trends for the last oh... five centuries at least. So to see someone talking about that kind of plot like it's a novel thing to make a story out of always feels... weird... like they haven't done some research on how often that plot actually does turn up as a whole (seriously, how many Shakesphere tradedies run on this plot...).
ForceStealer
Double Growth
^I was pleasantly surprised that Tales of Berseria actually let you and the main character relish in the revenge, but it also wasn't just Dirty Harry style cathartic revenge. You could plainly see the effect it was having on her, and pushing other people away, but the story didn't beat you down with it, it was just there for you to make of what you willed. The idea that a story involving the main character's quest for revenge turning her into a literal monster being somehow more subtle amuses me.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Okay while finishing TLOU2, I kept coming around to this idea of Oscar Bait as a kind of disparaging description of a work that is competently dramatic, while also trying to be broadly palatable. I thought TLOU2 was plenty subversive for a mainstream drama, especially the big twist around the 2/3 mark. It also might be because I‘ve not been desensitized by 4+ Uncharted games but TLOU2 was a technical marvel, hands down the biggest spectacle I’ve ever seen in a video game. That fucking horse ride through the burning town was live, with dozens of actors attacking me and each other, environments exploding, and me live controlling the camera, the gun, and dynamic QuickTime events when fuckers tried to pull me off my horse. Wtf, that’s so extra. The writing was excellent, with characters I never disbelieved, never fully rooted for, but wanted to save nonetheless (yes all the characters). The non-linear narrative gave every scene a ramping emotional weight (who put Pulp Fiction in my Kill Bill?). You’d be hard-pressed to see me disagree with any award it takes home.
But hey, I also love Shakespeare, and seeing authentic and pervasive queer rep makes my heart soar, so maybe I’m just the right kind of sucker for it.
But hey, I also love Shakespeare, and seeing authentic and pervasive queer rep makes my heart soar, so maybe I’m just the right kind of sucker for it.
Tetsujin
he/they
- AKA
- Tets
Tetsujin
he/they
- AKA
- Tets
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
TLOU 2 requires a very very specific mindset to get the most out of. If you don't have that, at least one of the big moments won't hit.
No More Heroes has already done 'revenge is hollow. FFXII. It's not new.
No More Heroes has already done 'revenge is hollow. FFXII. It's not new.
I feel like FFVIIR has a really good shot at the Score and Music category. I can't really make any predictions, though, since I haven't yet played any of the other nominees besides FFVIIR (in any category ). It's a bit weird to see Persona 5 Royal up for best RPG - it's not that different from vanilla P5, is it? They couldn't nominate a wholly new game instead?
I don't really care who wins what, though (except for maybe the Score/Music category). I'm just hoping for Elden Ring gameplay reveal, personally.
). It's a bit weird to see Persona 5 Royal up for best RPG - it's not that different from vanilla P5, is it? They couldn't nominate a wholly new game instead?I don't really care who wins what, though (except for maybe the Score/Music category). I'm just hoping for Elden Ring gameplay reveal, personally.
Suzaku
Pro Adventurer
I'm still expecting TLOU2 and/or GoT to snag most of the big awards since they're the video game equivalent of Oscar Bait.
FFVIIR has a solid shot at picking up best RPG and best score. Hades might snag the latter but, as good as the music is, I think it's a pretty weak showing compared to Supergiant's other games.
Hades is going to be this year's indie darling, probably.
Among Us or Fall Guys pick up most of the multiplayer stuff.
FFVIIR has a solid shot at picking up best RPG and best score. Hades might snag the latter but, as good as the music is, I think it's a pretty weak showing compared to Supergiant's other games.
Hades is going to be this year's indie darling, probably.
Among Us or Fall Guys pick up most of the multiplayer stuff.
