The Good and The Bad of Final Fantasy XII
- Thread starter Gabranth
- Start date
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I could make a similar-but-opposite argument for Lulu 
Farron
If the sky comes falling down
- AKA
- Hallelujah
"Felt"?That's what I love about him, though -- he carries on as though he believes he's an actor in a play.
Sort of like Sega Genesis from Crisis Core ?
But yeah, sorry. I don't like him. Odd I know. But I also like like Curry Sandwiches so yeah.
Fangu
Great Old One
So which one is it
Re: Balthier, it obviously became important to his character to picture himself a big shot in his new world. The world he came from pretty much fell apart, and he embraced his new freedom where he could be his own boss. I find it quite plausible he would become a little egocentric. It's also one of the things Fran teases him about in private.
She realizes he needs to be the hero in his own story because of how his own father and origins (his family pride, basically, which probably means a lot in a high class society like Archades) became corrupted.
But he isn't just a man of talk. He chooses to take responsibility for his family's actions, and in the end he chooses not to run away, he chooses self sacrifice.
But he isn't just a man of talk. He chooses to take responsibility for his family's actions, and in the end he chooses not to run away, he chooses self sacrifice.
Anyway it's impossible for me to dislike Balthier after realizing he has the exact same hair and sideburns (the color is pretty much the same as well) my boyfriend had when I met him, olol
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I'm sure Balthier would agree your bf sounds like a dashing fellow.
It's sort of like he laughs his way through life. Like most situations just aren't that serious, even when they really are. He's very aware that he isn't invincible, though, which is evident by his decision to instruct Vaan on flying the Strahl in case "something untoward should happen to me."
It's sort of like he laughs his way through life. Like most situations just aren't that serious, even when they really are. He's very aware that he isn't invincible, though, which is evident by his decision to instruct Vaan on flying the Strahl in case "something untoward should happen to me."
Fangu
Great Old One
I managed to solve the "I have no TV but need to play XII" problem by my PS2, a Pinnacle and a Firewire. So I thought I might as well stream it, here: http://www.twitch.tv/fanguu
Fangu
Great Old One
We all know XII's story were changed to make room for Vaan. But I also think they changed it in other ways - like they knew there was gonna be a follow-up as they were making XII, or, at least they wanted to make room for a follow-up. So certain characters had to stay alive.
Theory:
I wish I could get my hands on the original script (magically translated to English, of course.) Would probably be a very good read.
Theory:
Reddas was supposed to be Balthier. Or, Reddas' actions and story were supposed to be Balthier's.
We already know Cid made Balthier a Judge by the age of 16 (the Ultimania does state Balthier was clever and good enough to be one, so it wasn't just because of his father - although this could have been changed later, Balthier originally written as to have been used by his father as a tool) and that at some point, Balthier ran, stealing the prototype airship The Strahl, living life as a sky pirate.
Reddas was also a Judge (I like calling this game "Final Fantasy XII - Everybody used to be a Judge"), given the nethicite by Cid, Balthier's father, to see what it would do to Nabudis, thus destroying the entire city, becoming a sky pirate after that, living his life in Whatever Mode, like Balthier. (The flashback with Ondore shows he's drinking heavily.)
I also found it a bit of a cheap way out that they would introduce Reddas then have him commit this huge sacrifice. It's a brilliant moment, but imagine how much more emotional it would have been if it had been Balthier. He would have said his goodbyes to Fran, finally deciding to face his past and clean up the mess and pay for what he did to Nabudis, then picked up Ashe's sword and went for the Sun Cryst. The series of events even fits perfectly; Reddas comes up to Ashe from behind and takes the sword moments after the Fran and Balthier scene. "Give me this sword and let me finish this" etc.
The whole "Balthier saves us from Bahamut" thing seems to be a scene written in to fit the "Balther must make a sacrifice" thing. Sure he saves them, but it seems like a cheap way out. Fran is even sorta unconscious in both of them, so they're even kinda similar. The original version of the Bahamut scene has Balthier say something to Fran like "you sure make a lot of work for me don't you", which could also fit for the Sun Cryst scene ("omg I have to carry you out of this thing?") (The translated version of the Bahamut scene makes it seem like Balthier is asking Fran to give power to the Glossair rings, while in fact he's stating that they already have power - and when she doesn't respond (read: give him credit), he says the "you sure make a lot of work for me" thing, implying he now has to carry her out, and not "do I have to do everything myself around here".)
So I think that in the earlier storyline, the one where Vaan didn't exist and the story was more focused on Basch -- Balthier was supposed to self sacrifice, repenting for both his father and his own actions, and then he was supposed to die. He was probably even supposed to be older too, closer to Basch's age - and Reddas is 33.
I also think the "2 years later" was supposed to be "10 years later", aging both Ashe, Balthier and Basch, but they had to cut it down to 2 to keep Vaan young, and make more sense to the Reks/Vaan storyline (them being close brothers, which they probably wouldn't as much if Reks was 10 years or so older than Vaan). Also 10 years is too long a timespan for younger players to have a grasp of.
We already know Cid made Balthier a Judge by the age of 16 (the Ultimania does state Balthier was clever and good enough to be one, so it wasn't just because of his father - although this could have been changed later, Balthier originally written as to have been used by his father as a tool) and that at some point, Balthier ran, stealing the prototype airship The Strahl, living life as a sky pirate.
Reddas was also a Judge (I like calling this game "Final Fantasy XII - Everybody used to be a Judge"), given the nethicite by Cid, Balthier's father, to see what it would do to Nabudis, thus destroying the entire city, becoming a sky pirate after that, living his life in Whatever Mode, like Balthier. (The flashback with Ondore shows he's drinking heavily.)
I also found it a bit of a cheap way out that they would introduce Reddas then have him commit this huge sacrifice. It's a brilliant moment, but imagine how much more emotional it would have been if it had been Balthier. He would have said his goodbyes to Fran, finally deciding to face his past and clean up the mess and pay for what he did to Nabudis, then picked up Ashe's sword and went for the Sun Cryst. The series of events even fits perfectly; Reddas comes up to Ashe from behind and takes the sword moments after the Fran and Balthier scene. "Give me this sword and let me finish this" etc.
The whole "Balthier saves us from Bahamut" thing seems to be a scene written in to fit the "Balther must make a sacrifice" thing. Sure he saves them, but it seems like a cheap way out. Fran is even sorta unconscious in both of them, so they're even kinda similar. The original version of the Bahamut scene has Balthier say something to Fran like "you sure make a lot of work for me don't you", which could also fit for the Sun Cryst scene ("omg I have to carry you out of this thing?") (The translated version of the Bahamut scene makes it seem like Balthier is asking Fran to give power to the Glossair rings, while in fact he's stating that they already have power - and when she doesn't respond (read: give him credit), he says the "you sure make a lot of work for me" thing, implying he now has to carry her out, and not "do I have to do everything myself around here".)
So I think that in the earlier storyline, the one where Vaan didn't exist and the story was more focused on Basch -- Balthier was supposed to self sacrifice, repenting for both his father and his own actions, and then he was supposed to die. He was probably even supposed to be older too, closer to Basch's age - and Reddas is 33.
I also think the "2 years later" was supposed to be "10 years later", aging both Ashe, Balthier and Basch, but they had to cut it down to 2 to keep Vaan young, and make more sense to the Reks/Vaan storyline (them being close brothers, which they probably wouldn't as much if Reks was 10 years or so older than Vaan). Also 10 years is too long a timespan for younger players to have a grasp of.
I wish I could get my hands on the original script (magically translated to English, of course.) Would probably be a very good read.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
That's a good theory, Frangu. It also fits the timing of Balthier's whole "if something untoward should happen to me" line.
Blade
That Man
- AKA
- Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
I honestly believe that:
1. More people need to pretend this game is in the same vein as Star Wars (because please, it might as WELL be! Ivalice is huge and it's diversity is hugerer.)
2. Pairings have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not this game is good since the world, gameplay, and story speak for itself.
3. Why isn't this game ported to Playstation 3 or Vita Yet????? Speaking of which I should get Vagrant Story while I'm at it.
1. More people need to pretend this game is in the same vein as Star Wars (because please, it might as WELL be! Ivalice is huge and it's diversity is hugerer.)
2. Pairings have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not this game is good since the world, gameplay, and story speak for itself.
3. Why isn't this game ported to Playstation 3 or Vita Yet????? Speaking of which I should get Vagrant Story while I'm at it.
Fangu
Great Old One
Ah yes, good point.
I do wonder who he said it to originally - I have a feeling Penelo was the 'Vaan' in the storyline originally, sort of filling the role of both her and Vaan - so it could have been her, or it could have been Fran ("Here Chewbacca, have my ship") but I have no idea.
It would make sense if Fran got to take over the Strahl in the end though, Balthier giving her the ultimate freedom to go wherever she likes; freedom being the theme for Fran all along (hell even her name means 'freedom').
You know I really would have liked a story like that XD Sad, bittersweet, but good in a painful way, like life often is.
Like Basch living his life as Noah and Ashe giving up all of her personal wants and losing touch with the others being queen.
And Blade yeah I'd definitely get a PS3 port. Hopefully X will sell shitloads and we'll get XII too, it has been publicly mentioned as a possibility after all
ForceStealer
Double Growth
You know what has an ending like that?
That you game you hate
That you game you hate
Fangu
Great Old One
Hahaha!
I don't hate it, I just don't like the way its face looks
Chemistry issues. Etc. Also I seem to remember that save for that
stuff, the game had a pretty happy ending. I'm not happy until all of the characters are sad
Also
I don't hate it, I just don't like the way its face looks
Chemistry issues. Etc. Also I seem to remember that save for that
I was dead all along
Also
did Tidus really sacrifice himself? Or did he just vanish, that being very sad and all. I guess there are similarities but I wouldn't call those two storylines identical. I guess you could say Tidus was like Vivi, too.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I was just referring to the bittersweet bit 
Lex
Administrator
The first time I saw
And I think
But
Sorry for the crazy post, I just beat Yiazmat and therefore am tired
the FFX ending my heart actually broke. I think it has one of the best endings of any FF game ever. The music, the scenery, the dialogue (let's not talk about the translation thing again XD) and just the story. It's an incredibly bittersweet ending, and probably the most emotional. IX comes close.
And I think
FFXII has a bittersweet ending too in a way, because everyone kinda splits up and goes off to do their own thing. You can kind of imagine none of them properly speaking to each other again because of jobs/statuses and stuff. It's not a super happy ending, "Kiss Me Goodbye" and all that".
But
X's ending has to be the saddest of them all. Forget that X-2 exists for a second (even though I do like it) and remember how you felt the first time you played the ending. The existence of a sequel kinda ruins that for some people because I don't think they got the same emotional impact that people who played it during the 2 years before X-2 without knowing there was a X-2. The main character DIES. It feels like a completely finished story, and I feel like it was intended that way (was it? I can't remember if they decided on a sequel before or after they finished the story).
And from that standpoint, it has much more of an emotional impact. I still feel it when I watch the ending, and I'll feel it again when I play through the HD re-release. Why can't I wait to shed a tear over a video game ending? That's so weird.
And from that standpoint, it has much more of an emotional impact. I still feel it when I watch the ending, and I'll feel it again when I play through the HD re-release. Why can't I wait to shed a tear over a video game ending? That's so weird.
Sorry for the crazy post, I just beat Yiazmat and therefore am tired
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Hey, X-2 has multiple endings (well...different lengths, really) with technically no confirmation as which is canon. So you can easily assume X ended the way it did and X-2 is simply covering what Yuna did after. But I don't think the game "ruined it" anyway.
And yes, X's ending was very sad. I got choked up, but I'm easy like that.
And yes, X's ending was very sad. I got choked up, but I'm easy like that.
And I agree I like the friendships people create in FF games. And the implication in XII's that they went off separately - especially easy to believe with the sense of scope the world has - kinda made me sad. Not being the sadist Fangu is
I was getting pissed when I was thinking they were going to kill off Balthier, because he was really the only cast member that kept me going in that game.
I was getting pissed when I was thinking they were going to kill off Balthier, because he was really the only cast member that kept me going in that game.
Lex
Administrator
X-2 in no way ruined the X ending, but as a person playing it knowing there's a sequel the ending is a whole lot less sad IMO. I actually like the fact that they bring him back at the end of X-2.
The ending of X is diminished slightly by having a sequel because the air of finality combined with the sadness is gone. So instead of it feeling like a finale, your head goes, "well, I'm half way through the story! On to the next one! I wonder if he'll come back?". It still makes me cry, but I think that's more because I remember how I felt when the sequel didn't exist.
The ending of X is diminished slightly by having a sequel because the air of finality combined with the sadness is gone. So instead of it feeling like a finale, your head goes, "well, I'm half way through the story! On to the next one! I wonder if he'll come back?". It still makes me cry, but I think that's more because I remember how I felt when the sequel didn't exist.
In a way it kind of reminds me of what the compilation has done to FFVII. That's another incredibly emotional ending, but in terms of Final Fantasy it's the odd one out because EVERYTHING is left hanging. I cried at that one too - Aerith's face right at the end? Jeebus, the questions I had. And in a way, that too was a bittersweet ending. People who played the game after the release of Advent Children didn't get quite the same effect. I'm glad the compilation exists, I like that the stories continued/ were expanded upon. They could have been better, but I am glad they chose to continue it.
I feel the same way about X-2 - I'm glad they continued it, but it diminished the ending of the original.
The XII ending still retains its emotion even though Revenant Wings exists, but that's probably because
no one dies and it's completely faithful to the original plot of the story.
XIII I'm not sure about. It was an emotional ending and I played it thinking it was going to be a standalone game, and it could have been. Although the air of finality has been removed in this case, it's still an emotional ending probably because
Fang and Vanille's sacrifices weren't diminished in the sequels
Is that what happened in X/X-2? I'm not entirely sure. I don't think X-2 ruined the story of X in any way, just that a person playing the ending of X would probably not have the same emotional impact these days knowing there's a sequel, as I believe is the case with VII and the Compilation.
Holy hell, that's a lot of ending chat. Maybe we should have an Ending's thread?
Fangu
Great Old One
Ai like painAnd I agree I like the friendships people create in FF games. And the implication in XII's that they went off separately - especially easy to believe with the sense of scope the world has - kinda made me sad. Not being the sadist Fangu is
No seriously
only two of them had a "proper sad/bittersweet ending", the other four goes off on new adventures.
I think that's a good idea.
I can't contribute with anything intelligent right now because I've found a fic writer that's responsible for me having this stupid smile plastered on my face for two hours now
brb putting up the Bat-signal or masturbating or sleeping or eating (I'm gonna regret this in the morning aren't I)
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
i remember having the ending of ffx spoilt for me before i got a ps2 and the game by someone who had written a comment on a petition demanding square release the international version in america 
thanks a lot, yankee
but i forgot all about it by the time i got the game and started playing it
thanks a lot, yankeebut i forgot all about it by the time i got the game and started playing it
Cait Sith
Ugh! As if!
- AKA
- noxy
In the beginning, the battle system of 12 annoyed the shit out of me.
.... So did Penelo. And Vaan with his grotesque 12 year old body with Shaun T's abs. (actually.. Vaan's body still creeps me out)...
Anywho. I got used to the battle system and rather like it now. Still can't stand Penelo. Or her ugly ass outfit. Vaan.. Eh. Whatever.
Fran & Balthier though.. After I beat it and saw the end credits, I got a little tear in my eye. Fran's voice makes me think of Bjork.
.... So did Penelo. And Vaan with his grotesque 12 year old body with Shaun T's abs. (actually.. Vaan's body still creeps me out)...
Anywho. I got used to the battle system and rather like it now. Still can't stand Penelo. Or her ugly ass outfit. Vaan.. Eh. Whatever.
Fran & Balthier though.. After I beat it and saw the end credits, I got a little tear in my eye. Fran's voice makes me think of Bjork.
Fangu
Great Old One
I find it funny whenever I read that Fran's accent was meant to sound Icelandic. To me she's missing key parts for that - the most noticeable being how Icelanding people "jump" from one word to the other in a very specific singing pattern. The second thing is how they pronounce their d's - if you look at this interview with Icelandic singer Yohanna at around 1:36 when she says "schedule" - that's very Icelandic. A third is the extra h they tend to but on words - like in the link I've posted at the end of this paragraph, how she says 'bahck' (back) and 'noht' (not). Another thing is how some of them - not everyone - rolls the r's. Fran very clearly does more of an American r. Regarding Björk - Björk moved to the UK in her early twenties and to me her accent is very British. At least compared to a random Icelandic person speaking English anyway. It's funny because if you search for 'icelandic accent' on YouTube, an interview with Björk is like the 7th hit or something, and some of the other hits even links to a video titled 'The Viera sisters' or something, along with other videos of people (badly) imitating Icelandic accents. If you look at this video though - it's an "interview" with stunt pop music performer Sylvia Nótt - she has a very clear Icelandic accent and it's the closest I could find to what Icelandic people sound like when they speak English.
I guess it takes a Scandinavian to hear the difference though - I can see why people think of Fran's accent as Icelandic. But I don't agree with it.
I guess it takes a Scandinavian to hear the difference though - I can see why people think of Fran's accent as Icelandic. But I don't agree with it.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I've known an Icelander or two myself and always thought she sounded off.
Fangu
Great Old One
Oh - speaking of Fran, can I just say how much I love the expression on her face when she meets Mjrn again?
(Screenshoted from this video, 16:10'ish)
That scene is so wonderful - it is truly the happiest we ever see her in the game. Just the very subtle smile, the way her upper lip is slightly pouted, and the relax in her eyes. Then the way she tilts her head slightly afterwards. Aww <3
The work done on the character's faces in this game is so damn well done and it's one of the reasons I'm really hoping for a PS3/4 re-release. I've noticed so much after watching HD playthroughs of this game.
(Screenshoted from this video, 16:10'ish)
That scene is so wonderful - it is truly the happiest we ever see her in the game. Just the very subtle smile, the way her upper lip is slightly pouted, and the relax in her eyes. Then the way she tilts her head slightly afterwards. Aww <3
The work done on the character's faces in this game is so damn well done and it's one of the reasons I'm really hoping for a PS3/4 re-release. I've noticed so much after watching HD playthroughs of this game.
