The Gunblade

[ForceStealer]

His sword? The Souba.

 

[Neo Bahamut]

Kadaj's sword: Souba.
Loz's gauntlet thingy: Dual Hound
Gunblade thingies: Velvet Nightmare

ForceStealer: God damn it, all I'm saying is that if people want to make an argument, I expect more than "my friend said this," or "here's some pictures of freakin' ANIME SWORD REPLICAS I found on Google." The point is that if you're going to try to argue with someone, you need better material.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Zanbato. Has been known to be exaggerated in anime like Sanosuke Sagara's in Ruroni Kenshin and in Berserk.

 

[Neo Bahamut]

Because I'm lazy & this topic is more-or-less dead, anyway, just follow the link. If you're as lazy as I am, watch the videos, as they pretty much speak for themselves:

http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=creative&action=display&thread=1433&page=3

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yes, but the tang of Buster is the thickness of the handle and is if not the blade itself, at least embeded quite deep inside it. That's more than sufficient to withstand the stresses exerted on it. It's not that damn rattail shit you think it is.

And speaking of, lithpy, that is a problem the gunblade would have, and worse than the Buster sword.

 

[Max Payne]

Zanbato. Has been known to be exaggerated in anime like Sanosuke Sagara's in Ruroni Kenshin and in Berserk.

The sword in Berserk is more of a supersized broadsword. It was made to kill dragons after all.

 

[Neo Bahamut]

Yes, but the tang of Buster is the thickness of the handle and is if not the blade itself, at least embeded quite deep inside it. That's more than sufficient to withstand the stresses exerted on it. It's not that damn rattail shit you think it is.

And speaking of, lithpy, that is a problem the gunblade would have, and worse than the Buster sword.

First, don't call me "Lithpy." Second, we aren't arguing about the Gunblade. I never said the Gunblade WOULD NOT have this problem, I'm saying the Buster Sword would be useless. Third, [citation needed]*.

I don't even see why you're still arguing this. The Buster Sword's blade is like 5x1x1/4 feet of steel. Picture the thing as a lever. Have ALL of that weight focused on where the blade meets a tang.

You're seriously telling me it won't break, or at least suffer from deformity?

*=Let me stress that. When someone provides citations & you just sit there & go, "I'm right," it doesn't really matter whether you end up being right or wrong, your argument is still weak.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

First, don't call me "Lithpy." Second, we aren't arguing about the Gunblade. I never said the Gunblade WOULD NOT have this problem, I'm saying the Buster Sword would be useless. Third, [citation needed]*.

Wait, we aren't arguing the Gunblade in a thread titled "The Gunblade"? I sense something is amiss, I'm just not sure what. ()

 

[Neo Bahamut]

Wait, we aren't arguing the Gunblade in a thread titled "The Gunblade"? I sense something is amiss, I'm just not sure what. ()

Topic derail. Don't look at me, I'm just arguing physics. The point is, I think certain individuals would have a lot less problems with me if they just shut up & read my posts properly.

I'm not arguing for my opinion of the Buster Sword, I'm arguing against the incorrect statement that "if you were just strong enough, you could use it."

 

[Ryushikaze]

First, don't call me "Lithpy."

No go, lithpy.

Second, we aren't arguing about the Gunblade.

YES WE ARE.

I never said the Gunblade WOULD NOT have this problem, I'm saying the Buster Sword would be useless. Third, [citation needed]*.

Same to you, monkey.

I don't even see why you're still arguing this. The Buster Sword's blade is like 5x1x1/4 feet of steel. Picture the thing as a lever. Have ALL of that weight focused on where the blade meets a tang.

It's barely 5 ft handle included, and certainly not 3in thick. Have you held a 3inch pipe? Buster is about 1 1/2in thick.

You're seriously telling me it won't break, or at least suffer from deformity?

Nope. Not when it has a tang as thick around as it is wide and a good quarter of the length of the blade

*=Let me stress that. When someone provides citations & you just sit there & go, "I'm right," it doesn't really matter whether you end up being right or wrong, your argument is still weak.

You've not provided a citation. You've provided a link to another forum where you've talked about swords with tangs with a ratio of length and of width between the tang and the blade are much different than what Buster must deal with.
If the swords in the video were significantly shorter, we'd have direct comparison.

 

[Neo Bahamut]

YES WE ARE.

Nothing about my argument comments on the Gunblade at all. Stop attributing false positions to me.

And nitpicking will get you nowhere. As I said there, "Of course, to them, proportion doesn't factor in at all." Or something like that.

The proof of my claim was in the videos. I have yet to see any reasoned response out of you. You have given me no reason to believe that the thickness of the tang itself is irrelevent next to the thickness of the tang relative to the size of the blade.

That's not to say you can't be correct, simply that your only support for being correct is your own assertions.

This is why your argument is weak.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Nothing about my argument comments on the Gunblade at all. Stop attributing false positions to me.

I'm not, lithpy. THIS IS THE GUNBLADE THREAD. It is fair fucking game. And further, IT TOO suffers from the same thing you are currently deriding Buster for. What we're calling you out on, monkeychuckle, is your blatant inconsistency.

And nitpicking will get you nowhere. As I said there, "Of course, to them, proportion doesn't factor in at all." Or something like that.

And yet, Proportion DOES fucking matter. 1/5 total length with an equal thickness to the blade is totally different than the tiny little rat tails that were a tenth of the length or less your videos demonstrated.
Telling us we don't know out own fucking stance kiddo, not the best way to conduct an argument.

The proof of my claim was in the videos.

And your videos demonstrated a point that was entirely irrelevant.

I have yet to see any reasoned response out of you.

Then you have not been reading, monkey.

You have given me no reason to believe that the thickness of the tang itself is irrelevent next to the thickness of the tang relative to the size of the blade.

The tang is just as thick as the blade, give or take a few mm. No, it's not as wide, but again, I point out meat cleavers, to which the Buster sword shares an overall proportionality.

That's not to say you can't be correct, simply that your only support for being correct is your own assertions.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

This is why your argument is weak.

And you, who are saying that the weight stress of Buster would snap the handle off, hold a weaker argument, since you've given us no numbers, no calculated weight, gotten the dimensions of the sword wrong, and the only evidence you've given proves a point that doesn't actually relate to the sword at hand because one deals with shitty materials construction and the other compared a different width of tang/ length of sword entirely.
And the tang- which I remind you IS the handle in Buster's case- there is no ornamental addition aside from the handle wrap- was still on when he did the cutting demonstration after the connection from the handle failed.
So, your videos made points.
But those points are irrelevant.

 

[KissTheRain]

I'd agree the gunblade in real life is quite unefficent, but in the game I think it looks pretty bad ass, tbh. And this is fantasy, where people jump like 100 ft in the air so some tech problems with a weapon is no biggie.

And I love the griever ingraved in Squall's gunblade. :3

 

[Ryushikaze]

Oh, and for future reference, lithpy, no one's actually defending buster as a good weapon. Similarly, we think the gunblade would be shit, most Masamune designs are ridiculous and contrived, and would not be useful in actual combat.

Our only contention at this point is whether or not your claim that 'Buster would snap under its own weight' is true and your inconsistency in applying this criticism to swords you actually like.

 

[KissTheRain]

Why do you guys all have to be about reasoning? Why can't you just say it looks cool and like it for that.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah, Neo, I'm not really sure where you're getting this idea that the Buster Sword has a poorly constructed rat tail thing. Your videos were pointing to cheap, shoddy construction. Going by the plot, Gillian in Crisis Core states that Angeal's father spent just about all he had to have the sword made, it wasn't mass produced at some replica sword company.

Before you tell me that's irrelevant, it is, but my point is your videos. They are about poor construction rather than the width of a tang. The tang could be the exact same size as those swords and still be worthless with a shitty weld job holding it on. I never heard the Buster Sword rattle in its hilt.

Further, you said think of it as a lever, do you know how long the Buster Sword's handle is? It's the third a length of the blade. As Ryu said, that makes it 1/4 of the swords total length which is a lot of leverage.

And really, 3 inches thick?

That might be an inch thick.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Why do you guys all have to be about reasoning? Why can't you just say it looks cool and like it for that.

The same reason you feel it necessary to only discuss the superficial aspects of whatever it is you discuss, and ask us why we have to "be about reasoning."

 

[Neo Bahamut]

I'm not, lithpy. THIS IS THE GUNBLADE THREAD. It is fair fucking game.

No it isn't. The fact that my argument never ONCE commented on the Gunblade makes it explicitly NOT "fair game." Saying nothing at all about it=/=saying the same problem wouldn't apply. That's what I mean: You put words in my mouth.

And further, IT TOO suffers from the same thing you are currently deriding Buster for. What we're calling you out on, monkeychuckle, is your blatant inconsistency.

You're doing it wrong. I'm not defending the Gunblade, which you'd know if you would read the damn thread instead of rabidly trying to shoot down every little thing I say. Actually, quite ironically, probably the only weapons mentioned here that WOULDN'T suffer from this problem are the Keyblades or Sephiroth's Masamune.

And yet, Proportion DOES fucking matter. 1/5 total length with an equal thickness to the blade is totally different than the tiny little rat tails that were a tenth of the length or less your videos demonstrated.
Telling us we don't know out own fucking stance kiddo, not the best way to conduct an argument.

You don't know basic WORDS. Proportionally, it would be the same damn thing. Seriously. Scale the Buster Sword's components down, & it would look a lot like that. Especially since you use the dimension of "width" as flat to flat in the case of the Buster Sword, but from blade to blunt in the case of the example swords.

Not that you'll probably understand what I just said....

And your videos demonstrated a point that was entirely irrelevant.

And you've deconstructed NOTHING.

Then you have not been reading, monkey.

Yeah. You say I'm being "inconsistent" when I've pointed out a DOZEN FUCKING TIMES that all I was doing was countering someone who said the Buster Sword would work when the Gunblade wouldn't, & I'M the one who's being inconsistent.

One reason I've decided to leave the board: The mods are all a bunch of hypocrites.

I'm mostly referring to the flaming you just did, but in general, you're a massive hypocrite.

The tang is just as thick as the blade, give or take a few mm. No, it's not as wide, but again, I point out meat cleavers, to which the Buster sword shares an overall proportionality.

In some dimensions, yes, in others, no. But even though you've FINALLY demonstrated knowledge of proportions, there's still a massive difference in weight.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

One decent argument, & now you're back to your same-old-same-old. You aren't even using this term correctly. I gave you outside sources, you just keep sitting here & hoping that your insistences that I'm wrong will prove to be enough.

Which they will, because I only gave you those links so that gathering them wouldn't be wasted. I am officially done treating this argument, and any other on this board, as being serious.

And you, who are saying that the weight stress of Buster would snap the handle off, hold a weaker argument, since you've given us no numbers, no calculated weight, gotten the dimensions of the sword wrong, and the only evidence you've given proves a point that doesn't actually relate to the sword at hand because one deals with shitty materials construction and the other compared a different width of tang/ length of sword entirely.
And the tang- which I remind you IS the handle in Buster's case- there is no ornamental addition aside from the handle wrap- was still on when he did the cutting demonstration after the connection from the handle failed.

Pot/Kettle/Black. THAT is how you use that term, because you've provided none of those things either, & a lot of your proportions are still in question.

So, it would be more accurate of you to claim that my argument is "as weak" as yours.

But you can't, because as I said, you just want to rabidly shoot down anything I say.

So, your videos made points.

Which is more than I can say for you. The best thing you have is the meat cleaver example, which we didn't have time to get into.

But those points are irrelevant.

You just keep telling yourself that.

I wouldn't even bother typing up a counter-argument. I probably won't ever come back to this topic to read it, anyway.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Awesome. Thank you so much, we appreciate that Neo.

 

[KissTheRain]

The same reason you feel it necessary to only discuss the superficial aspects of whatever it is you discuss, and ask us why we have to "be about reasoning."

Dude it was a fucking debate, I mean why would you need facts in one of those?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Dude it was a fucking debate, I mean why would you need facts in one of those?

I know, right?!

 

[Neo Bahamut]

Dude it was a fucking debate, I mean why would you need facts in one of those?

I support this statement. Let me say that I have no problem with debates, even about inane subjects, & actually get irritated at people who go, "DOOD ITS NOT THAT IMPORTANT!!!!11!1!zomgeleventy!!!~~~"

No offense, of course.

When it degrades into the point of rabidity, it does get a little bit annoying. Actually, I wouldn't altogether mind continuing this, now that new arguments have been presented, but I'm afraid I simply have to cut things short here, or I'll never be out of this place.

 

[Max Payne]

lolirony

 

[ForceStealer]

You just keep telling yourself that.

Ugh, why shouldn't he? Those videos had nothing to do with the size of the tang. It had to do with welding one on as well being lazy when fitting it to the hilt.

A welded-on tang would fail if it was size a freaking redwood tree. How are those videos relevant?!

 

[KissTheRain]

I know, right?!

Good, good now we're seeing the same so can I claim AerTi canon there by using my opinion?