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The Love Triangle Debate: Another Turn in the Cycle

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ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
I'm anti-ship in this situation because frankly Cloud is a disaster waiting to happen. Between his complexes in VII and AC, he's just not exactly the most stable person to have a relationship with. I also feel like the motivations for falling in love with him are really flimsy. Both Tifa and Aerith project a lot onto someone that is essentially a total stranger, and someone who as far as the original narrative goes, doesn't exactly open up. Tifa is holding onto the idea of a Cloud that could be her hero, and Aerith is fixated on how similar Cloud is to Zack. Neither actually know him that well.

I mean, he's handsome, sure, and he's somewhat heroic, but I just don't see a lot to fall in love with by his own merits. I'd sooner ship the girls with each other given how flimsy their interests are, and that says something given I'm a gay male.
 
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TerraBranfordStrife

Terra + Cloud forever
I'm anti-ship in this situation because frankly Cloud is a disaster waiting to happen. Between his complexes in VII and AC, he's just not exactly the most stable person to have a relationship with. I also feel like the motivations for falling in love with him are really flimsy. Both Tifa and Aerith project a lot onto someone that is essentially a total stranger, and someone who as far as the original narrative goes, doesn't exactly open up. Tifa is holding onto the idea of a Cloud that could be her hero, and Aerith is fixated on how similar Cloud is to Zack. Neither actually know him that well.

I mean, he's handsome, sure, and he's somewhat heroic, but I just don't see a lot to fall in love with by his own merits. I'd sooner ship the girls with each other given how flimsy their interests are, and that says something given I'm a gay male.

The true ship is Terra + Cloud. /end
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Well, Lic has a savage side we never knew about. :monster:



So, I hadn't heard anything about this Airborne Brigade event (actually, I didn't even know that shitty game was still being updated, to be completely honest), but I looked into the details. It's actually pretty Clerith-centric, in that the chance to earn a Groom Cloud card came in the same event on May 31 that saw the release of the Bride Aerith card.

As notable, there's apparently a cute cutscene -- or what qualifies for one in this game -- in which Cloud gets down on one knee, holds up his hand, and then Aerith squees. She also throws her bouquet at the end of the event.

Oddly, they're both already in their wedding garb in that proposal scene, but my guess is the thinking there was to get the most use out of these designs made specifically for the event.

The Bride Tifa card became available June 6. There aren't any cutscenes between she and Cloud, but there is one nice little Cloti thing in that in each of these three cards, the characters are holding items made of or adorned with the same flowers -- a bouquet for Aerith, a sword-sized cake knife for Cloud, and a wedding cake for Tifa. Each of these "weapons" also have their own cards. The Wedding Knife and Wedding Cake weapons obviously form a matching set even as both remain connected to the Wedding Bouquet by their shared flowers.

The Clerith depiction is definitely dominant here, both in the event's advertising and in its content, but both major FFVII pairings get attention -- which, being a polyamorous person myself, is a particularly nice thing to see in the context of an FF wedding. I like to think that such a dynamic is what would have emerged in FFVII proper if Aerith had lived.

Also more
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Those graphics, yo. Hope they use that Jenova model in the remake. :awesome:
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
I mean, he's handsome, sure, and he's somewhat heroic, but I just don't see a lot to fall in love with by his own merits. I'd sooner ship the girls with each other given how flimsy their interests are, and that says something given I'm a gay male.

Yeah these are the best things you can say about Cloud, he's good looking and fit but generally.....he's a bit of a boring bastard :lol:
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Aeris: I'm so happy!
Tifa: Shh, don't distract me from cake.

Jenova: By the power vested in me by taking over the Lifestream, I now pronounce you wife and wife! Let no one tear this union apart, and if if does happen, may a reunion quickly happen!

I'm anti-ship in this situation because frankly Cloud is a disaster waiting to happen. Between his complexes in VII and AC, he's just not exactly the most stable person to have a relationship with. I also feel like the motivations for falling in love with him are really flimsy. Both Tifa and Aerith project a lot onto someone that is essentially a total stranger, and someone who as far as the original narrative goes, doesn't exactly open up. Tifa is holding onto the idea of a Cloud that could be her hero, and Aerith is fixated on how similar Cloud is to Zack. Neither actually know him that well.

Aerith is explicitly interested in the real him underneath the Zack projection, and Tifa is extremely damaged too.

Cloud gets undersold a lot. He's been through enough to break like three people. I'm not saying that he has earned the right to a girlfriend or anything, but the actual breakdowns are pretty brief under the circumstances. There's a lot to admire in there too.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Is Tifa supposed to be in the picture too? I'm only seeing Aerith.

She's eating cake in a separate picture to the right of Aerith. Don't know why she isn't showing for you though.

Also more
tumblr_or3w61G31C1u63reto3_1280.jpg

Seriously, I was dreading that someone would come along and post about the Airborne Brigade June bridal event. I'm just glad that it was to highlight the Aerti, thanks Dashell :monster:

Is... is no one going to mention that Jenova Synthesis is apparently officiating their wedding?


Because that SEEMS like kind of a big deal to me.




X :neo:
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Seems like some kind of messed up fanfic at this point ... I approve :monster:
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
It think that the REAL debate is clearly still alive. In this wedding — where Cloud is clearly required to cross-dress as a Maid of Honour — whose Maid of Honour is he? :awesome:

There ya go. That's the plot for your fic.
• Can Cloud choose for himself?
• Is Jenova secretly controlling the whole thing?
• Will this debate cause issues with the wedding?
• WILL TRUE AERTI LOVE PROVE VICTORIOUS?!






X :neo:
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
I'm anti-ship in this situation because frankly Cloud is a disaster waiting to happen. Between his complexes in VII and AC, he's just not exactly the most stable person to have a relationship with. I also feel like the motivations for falling in love with him are really flimsy. Both Tifa and Aerith project a lot onto someone that is essentially a total stranger, and someone who as far as the original narrative goes, doesn't exactly open up. Tifa is holding onto the idea of a Cloud that could be her hero, and Aerith is fixated on how similar Cloud is to Zack. Neither actually know him that well.

I mean, he's handsome, sure, and he's somewhat heroic, but I just don't see a lot to fall in love with by his own merits. I'd sooner ship the girls with each other given how flimsy their interests are, and that says something given I'm a gay male.

"Kinda heroic"? Cloud upon meeting Aerith right away saved her from her kidnappers at no cost, and then tore through all of Shinra tower, the entity that ruled the world for her. Zack, while the hero of Crisis Core's story, didn't do that kind of stuff in front of Aerith, who stayed well away from Genesis and the lot. He was just a goofy boyfriend. Beyond that Aerith wants to discover her Cetra heritage, Cloud is the only non-evil person she's met since her mom died that is interested in helping her do it.

And by the end of FFVII, it's pretty thoroughly proven that Tifa's intuitionabout Cloud being her hero were on point after all.
 

T@ctic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Orah, Iju
hi everyone, sorry to repeat if everyone knows this but i just wanted to post this very interesting dialogue in the beginning part of this video. it starts at around 4 minutes and ends at 6:40ish.


although i have seen it being said that most of the dialogue in the first part is pretty much irrelevant and misleading, it's still interesting nonetheless, especially what barret says.

please don't lable me as some crazy cloti thanks
 

Purple

Charmed
Sorry for bringing up this thread again, but I just got off watching an FFVII video on Youtube and the comment section suddenly turned into this big bashing of Cloti

Anyway, there's this obsessed Clerith fan, who claims that it was officially translated or said, whatever, that Aerith is part of Cloud's soul, and that he can see her whenever he likes in some flower field or something. I mean WHAT!? Did I miss something??

I also know that it was translated that Cloud is Aerith's lover but not otherwise, right?
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
ROFL that's what I was talking about in the podcast that just went up.

Aerith lives on in the hearts of the people who knew her AS A MEMORY. It's a figure of speech that I feel like far less people must be familiar with than I originally thought.

Nomura said this, and people ran with it as Aerith being a part of Cloud's soul. *shrug*
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
It has nothing to do with whether or not they had feelings for each other, Channy. It's mostly about cheapening one of the more powerful moments of the OG. :P
 

GiddyUnicorn

Pro Adventurer
AKA
That One Person You Don't Like Talking To
Are we talking about this old quote?

The words “memetic legacy” are used a lot in the film…but in Advent Children, rather than focusing on memories we wanted to show that consciousness is what lives on. We took the ending of the game and expanded on that idea. Even if they’re dead, their consciousness is still with us. As for Cloud…he sees Aerith several times throughout the film. It’s not that he sees her because he feels her presence. He sees her because her consciousness…lives on inside him.
~Nomura; Distance Interview

It's a really strange quote and I really wouldn't be surprise if the context changed overtime especially when you consider how old it is.
 

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
I just want to add that it's a beautiful sentiment regardless of any romantic insinuations. Having seen some of my friends and family members pass away, the fact that they will be alive for as long as I am alive fills me with joy. There have been villains in my life as well (dunno if they are dead) but I would gladly bear their weight if it meant relative immortality for my friends.

They say you die three times: first when you die, then when everyone who knew you dies, and finally when your name and deeds are completely forgotten. That Nomura quote seems to be about that "second death" and the time in between your real death and the passing of your memory. It's very sentimental and I like it.
 

GiddyUnicorn

Pro Adventurer
AKA
That One Person You Don't Like Talking To
It's a really nice consistent quote from one of the dev's pov in my opinion. I believe it's one of the main source that inspired a lot of interpretations/theories in regards to Cloud and Aerith post death imo. I think both sides tend to miss this one particular line in that quote however:

but in Advent Children, rather than focusing on memories we wanted to show that consciousness is what lives on. We took the ending of the game and expanded on that idea.

One side feels the need to focus on the memory part of that line while the other side wants to focus solely on the second part of that line which is the consciousness. Thus, you have this big needless argument about two facts that really goes hand in hand with each other. Most people just refuse to see that as a whole imho.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I don't think any part of that sentence was ever the issue. It was more these last few sentences (the last in particular): "As for Cloud, he sees Aerith several times throughout the film. It’s not that he sees her because he feels her presence. He sees her because her consciousness lives on inside him."

The localization folks went with that for whatever reason, which gave some fans the idea that this long-winded way of saying "the dead live on through the living" was not only literal but also something specific to Cloud and Aerith (rather than the generalized sentiment for which Nomura was using Cloud and Aerith as an example).
 

GiddyUnicorn

Pro Adventurer
AKA
That One Person You Don't Like Talking To
I don't think it was ever specific to Cloud and Aerith only, it was however something nice for Cloud and Aerith to have and be confirmed by Nomura. I mean this was even explained by Bugenhagen and Ifalna herself in the first game. So whoever is saying that this was exclusive only to Cloud and Aerith, I simply don't agree with that. First time I've heard of that to be honest.
 
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Nandemoyasan

Standing guard
AKA
Johnny
My shipping preference?

Uh... (COME ON, you're new here, don't let on that you know nothing about shipping in fandoms) ...me...with my ...girl...friend?

(SWISH)
 
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