The Love Triangle Debate: Another Turn in the Cycle

[Danseru-kun]

About Cloud smiles to Tifa I did get to obsess over them and I made a compilation: http://danseru-kun.tumblr.com/post/44921515880/clouds-smiles-with-tifa

And people make shipping essays based on a single frame its amusing.

But that's not the issue. Whether or not Clotis obsess on these things give no bearing the debate. BB keeps on saying "Clotis say that Clotis say this"

IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT WE OBSESS OVER, what gives us feels has no bearing over the debate because facts are facts. As long as it's not attacking Clerith or degrading Cloud I don't see any reason to bring stuff up.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I've seen Cloti's obsess over if he smiles or not.

Sucks to be them if that's the best they got to obsess over

It doesn't look like a smile to me.

Might wanna see an optometrist then dude. Get your eyes checked and such. Cause that's a fuckin' smile.

lol

Pretty much my reaction to most of these posts right there.

 

[Dashell]

Might wanna see an optometrist then dude. Get your eyes checked and such. Cause that's a fuckin' smile.

It's a Cloud smile anyway, if you don't think that's a smile from him... it's the best you're gonna get.


Also this bugs me, why is it that there's 2 people on staff, and the script telling us Cloud smiles, and the damn SONG being called Cloud smiles... yet someone gets to come in and say, "It doesn't look like a smile to me."


...

I'm sorry but why would someone's opinion be just as valid as what 2 staff members, the script, the song and the screenshots tell us? I thought the LTD was supposed to be about debating facts and backing it up with what Square tells us? You can't just throw something away and say, "My opinion is just as valid" just because something pops up that you don't like. That's not fair.

That's like me saying, "Well Yuffie doesn't act like she's 16, I think she's really 24!"... everyone would laugh at that.. so why should it be taken seriously here?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Because shipping

 

[Onion Knight]

I have a question for Blankbeat. Did you ever play the OG yourself, or are you one of those fans who came during the compilation?

 

[Sprites]

I genuinely never knew it was a thing that was obsessed over before during LTD, I understand the reasoning now that Hito and Tres have both given me a bit of insight, but really it seems like a pretty poor argument, I guess I don't see it that way, I just see it as something to show the final way that Cloud doesn't have to worry anymore.

@Quex: I genuinely don't know it seems to work for Blank when the arguement is in his favour but as soon as someone comes along and gives a piece of evidence that's a fact said by SE or however he likes to put it and he doesn't agree with it, suddenly opinion is everything.

Also BB you're complaining about the way people are responding you but then you're coming out with stuff like LOL in relation to something I've said...you want people to treat you with respect in this thread , then do the same, I''ll be the first to admit I made some snarky comments towards you in the past and for that I'm sorry and trying to be much more civil about the way I post but you're not helping things either.

 

[BlankBeat]

On another note, BlankBeat, please don't try derailing the discussion with this FTOIL page business. You've said all that before. It's not something you just now came up with.

Wrong.

I have never brought up Aerith's profile in the FTOIL discussion ("...but she seems more interested in the deepening love triangle betwenn herself, Cloud and Tifa."), nor have I said it doesn't matter which date is considered, because according to the FTOIL page, any of the dates can be used as evidence of the protagonists (Cloud Strife's) love.

The date, by being included on the FTOIL page, is proof of Cloud Strife's love. It is proof of *HIS* love. Therefore, *ALL* dates are evidence of Cloud Strife's love.

However, because only Aerith and Tifa are in the love triangle, obviously the FTOIL page is meant to be applied to their dates. And because the Clerith date is canon/pictured, it makes sense that the FTOIL page is specifically referring to CxA's date.

Regardless, the date, BY BEING ON THE FTOIL PAGE, is evidence of the protagonist (Cloud Strife's) love. Therefore, the Golden Saucer date is evidence of Cloud's love for Aerith despite him not knowing about her feelings for him.

The very definition of the FTOIL page is that it is about the protagonists love. The Golden Saucer date is on that page. Therefore, the Golden Saucer date is evidence of Cloud's love for Aerith. That is inarguable.

Also --

I've also never brought up the point that the koibito quote mentions Cloud and Aerith being friends, but yet we NEVER consider their friendship a one-sided friendship, so why would we consider it a one-sided romance?

We already know it isn't a one-sided romance -- Cloud *wavers* between two heroines, Cloud tells Marlene he hopes Aerith likes him, and the Clerith date is on the FTOIL page (and the FTOIL page is evidence of a *PROTAGONISTS* love)

Bottom line -- why would we assume it is a one sided romance when we would never assume it is a one sided friendship?

Point is -- I've never brought up those points. I've brought up other points regarding the koibito quote and the FTOIL page, but I've never brought up those exact points.

 

[BlankBeat]

Also BB you're complaining about the way people are responding you but then you're coming out with stuff like LOL in relation to something I've said...you want people to treat you with respect in this thread , then do the same, I''ll be the first to admit I made some snarky comments towards you in the past and for that I'm sorry and trying to be much more civil about the way I post but you're not helping things either.

Saying that you, "put me in my place" was the start of you treating me with respect?

lol

 

[Sprites]

Right well then I'm sorry you're taking it that way because I can assure you it wasn't meant to be said in a rude way, putting someone in their place can also be a way to say you're setting them straight about something else, maybe it wasn't the best choice of words to use but there I said it and now I'm apologising for it, but there you again saying stuff like lol, you're not doing much to go out of the way to argue what I'm saying.

It's not the first time I've noticed you saying something disrectful in regards to someone comments so ignore mine but think about what way you're responding to other.

Anyway I'm sorry I'm derailing the thread now and apologies if that sounded like I'm pseudo modding, I promise that's not what I was trying to do, anyways OT:

Blank you've mentioned FTOIL several times now, you're just trying to find another way around to use it it's been talked so much about it's whipping a dead horse, there's really nothing else to say there I think.

You'd think it was Cloud that dragged Aerith out on that date but I seem to recall him having to be pushed out of the room by her, not the other way around from the way it's being discussed, honestly if she hadn't come and knocked on Cloud's door, the same goes for the other date settings, I doubt he'd ever had thought. "Hmmm better go get ready for that date now"

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

To everyone posting responses to BlankBeat in this thread, please see at least the end of this post before replying further.

Wrong.

I have never brought up Aerith's profile in the FTOIL discussion ("...but she seems more interested in the deepening love triangle betwenn herself, Cloud and Tifa.") ...

In, for example, this post you made precisely the same point:

I call it the C/A date scene because that is the date that is pictured on the FTOIL page. By picturing the C/A date, it was given preferential treatment.

But my main point seems to have been lost.

The date scene with Aerith is optional. The date scene with Tifa is optional. The date scene with Yuffie is optional. The date scene with Barret is optional. (Although SE has stated that the Clerith date is the default date)

But Cloud, Aerith and Tifa are the only characters that are apart of the love triangle. And the FTOIL states it is showing romantic affection between Final Fantasy protagonists. So it would appear as though the two dates the FTOIL page is referring to would have to be Cloud's date with Aerith, or Cloud's date with Tifa.

I guess we'll have to write a letter to SE and ask them why they didn't differentiate between the four dates since only two of the dates fit the criteria of the FTOIL page.

Is that not a more long-winded version of what you're saying now?:

However, because only Aerith and Tifa are in the love triangle, obviously the FTOIL page is meant to be applied to their dates. And because the Clerith date is canon/pictured, it makes sense that the FTOIL page is specifically referring to CxA's date.

It sounds the same.

... nor have I said it doesn't matter which date is considered, because according to the FTOIL page, any of the dates can be used as evidence of the protagonists (Cloud Strife's) love.

Cloud isn't the only protagonist. =P

I'm honestly not sure if you've made this claim, and I'm sorry if it wasn't you, but it has been made in this thread before. It's not a new one. The version of the argument made in the past was that the date Cloud gets is based on who he preferred, and that he made choices in dialogue, etc. that would influence events such that he would get the one he wanted (despite the mechanics being arbitrary and often counterintuitive, and despite Cloud hardly being prescient).

Unless I'm horribly misunderstanding you, it almost sounds like the same thing you're saying here -- i.e. that the date Cloud gets is evidence of his feelings rather than the feelings of the person who comes to get him?

Have I wildly misunderstood? Are you saying Cloud grows fonder of the person he goes on the date with (i.e. his love for them develops) during the course of said date?

If so, then I apologize for misunderstanding. And, yes, that's a reasonable argument -- but what is your point?

I'm not denying Cloud's love for Aerith to begin with. It doesn't need to be defended or proven any further.

Really, this feels like a red herring.

Also --

I've also never brought up the point that the koibito quote mentions Cloud and Aerith being friends, but yet we NEVER consider their friendship a one-sided friendship, so why would we consider it a one-sided romance?

Maybe you've not used that specific wording, but essentially the same point has been made, including by me (e.g. "We wouldn't say he's just a symbol of her friend rather than her actual friend, so why would we say he's a symbol of her koibito rather than her actual koibito?").

But, again, Cloud's love for Aerith isn't in question, so why are we talking about it as though it were?

This all still feels like an attempt at distracting from the conversation that was going on before. And like the recycling I mentioned to you the other day:

This is one of the reasons talking to you isn't even fun, much less intellectually engaging. You recycle past conversations rather than building on them. We very rarely tread new ground.

Point is -- I've never brought up those points. I've brought up other points regarding the koibito quote and the FTOIL page, but I've never brought up those exact points.

At least one of the three you have definitely brought up, one of the others has come up with different wording, and something very much like the third was brought up by someone in this thread at some point (I just can't remember who or when/where). This is all recycled material and it definitely feels like a red herring.






NOTICE
I'd like to take this moment to discourage everyone from replying further to BlankBeat's "new" arguments about the FTOIL page, the date and "koibito." You are free to do so if you'd like, but I suspect you would be falling prey to distraction bait.

 

[eleamaya]

About Cloud's smiling, I made a gifset here.
I know.... it's just my interpretation based on revised edition.

 

[Shadowfox]

I remember that the quote saying that the only time Cloud smiled/laughed in the game was when he was talking to Aerith in the slums was what triggered the whole obsession with Cloud's smile and who he smiles at. (IIRC, wasn't his smile to her one of those points on that old love scoresheet that was being brought up in the LTDs at the time?) So, of course when the compilation came out, SE gave both sides more smile ammo to fire at one another.

 

[Sprites]

Do you think Cloud and Tifa went through HWHA without cracking a smile once

 

[eleamaya]

Well, in CC, Cloud smile to Zack at their first meeting.
In OG, he smiled to Aerith at their second meeting in the slums.
And in CoT, Tifa said like she's surprised Cloud finally could smile afterall those hardship.... guess, he never smiled during OG 'til this scene. Never smile to anyone besides Zack, Aerith, and Tifa???

 

[Onion Knight]

Its funny I always considered Cloud's smile during the end of ACC to either be for the healed children or to be for himself. He's smiling because he's okay now.

 

[Celes Chere]

Well, in CC, Cloud smile to Zack at their first meeting.

 

[Onion Knight]

Or maybe Cloud wasn't smiling at Aerith or Tifa in AC he was smiling at Zack.

 

[BlankBeat]

In, for example, this post you made precisely the same point:

Is that not a more long-winded version of what you're saying now?:

I stand corrected. I *DID* make that point all the way back in 2012. I admire your commitment to find a post that is almost two years old -- a post I had completely forgotten about.

Regardless, I was *BUILDING* off of that point. I explain the second part of my argument below.

Cloud isn't the only protagonist. =P

Cloud is the only FFVII protagonist that is being discussed on the FTOIL page, which is what we are discussing =P

I'm honestly not sure if you've made this claim, and I'm sorry if it wasn't you, but it has been made in this thread before. It's not a new one. The version of the argument made in the past was that the date Cloud gets is based on who he preferred, and that he made choices in dialogue, etc. that would influence events such that he would get the one he wanted (despite the mechanics being arbitrary and often counterintuitive, and despite Cloud hardly being prescient).

Unless I'm horribly misunderstanding you, it almost sounds like the same thing you're saying here -- i.e. that the date Cloud gets is evidence of his feelings rather than the feelings of the person who comes to get him?

Have I wildly misunderstood? Are you saying Cloud grows fonder of the person he goes on the date with (i.e. his love for them develops) during the course of said date?

If so, then I apologize for misunderstanding. And, yes, that's a reasonable argument -- but what is your point?

Yes. You have (again) misunderstood me.

I will reiterate my point (again):
This is the stated intent of the FTOIL page: "Through the long journeys, the love of the protagonists develop."

Do you see that word? DEVELOP. The love of the protagonist DEVELOPS. The FTOIL page is giving examples of protagonists and their love DEVELOPING.

Therefore, the Golden Saucer date is proof of Cloud's love DEVELOPING. Cloud is DEVELOPING love during the course of the Golden Saucer date.

Now, I know it's stated Cloud has no clue about either Aerith or Tifa's feelings for him while on the date. And people always say Cloud doesn't show any physical or verbal indication that he's growing more interested in either of the ladies while on the date.

But guess what? The FTOIL page proves, that despite Cloud's lack of knowing Aerith or Tifa have feelings for him, and despite his lack of romantic behavior while on the date, he *IS* developing *LOVE* for them during the course of the Golden Saucer date. Obviously, he's doing so within his own mind. Point is -- Cloud is *DEVELOPING* love during the course of either date. We know this from the FTOIL page. This is why, IMO, the Golden Saucer date is just as important and relevant as the HA Highwind scene. Cloud develops love for Aerith on the Golden Saucer date. This is proven by the FTOIL page -- "...the love of the protagonists develop."

My other point is about the caption shown underneath Cloud and Aerith's date. I always hear Cloti's say the caption doesn't directly mention Cloud and Aerith's date. However, we already know the FTOIL page can only be applied to Aerith and Tifa's dates because of the members in the love triangle. And because CxA's date is both pictured and canon, the FTOIL page is (most obviously) being applied to their date specifically.

But even if the fact that CxA's date is both pictured and canon isn't enough evidence for you...I'd simply say this: Well, then, *BOTH* Aerith and Tifa's dates can be used as proof of Cloud's love developing for either of them.

I'm basically saying the caption argument is irrelevant and stupid because the date, by being on the FTOIL page, is evidence of Cloud's love DEVELOPING. Cloud develops LOVE during the course of that date -- ANY date. Thus, the date can be used as evidence for both pairings. However, since the Clerith date is canon and pictured, IMO, it can only technically be used as evidence of Cloud's love developing for Aerith.

I guess I'm trying to nuke these three points:

1. Cloud having no clue about Aerith or Tifa's romantic feelings while on the date

2. Cloud not showing any verbal or physical romantic behavior while on the date

3. The caption on the FTOIL page not directly mentioning CxA's date

Despite Cloud not having any clue of Aerith and Tifa's feelings for him, and despite Cloud not showing any verbal or physical romantic behavior, and despite the caption not directly mentioning CxA's date, the FTOIL page proves that Cloud develops love during the course of the Golden Saucer date. He obviously does so within his own mind.

Point is -- the Golden Saucer date is proof of Cloud's love for Aerith. Cloud develops love for Aerith during the course of the Golden Saucer date. That is proven by the intent of the FTOIL page -- "...the love of the protagonists develop."

And because the Clerith date is canon, it means Cloud only developed love for Aerith during the course of the Golden Saucer date.

I'm not denying Cloud's love for Aerith to begin with. It doesn't need to be defended or proven any further.

*YOU* aren't denying Cloud's love for Aerith. But Ryu is. Which is why I presented these arguments to him.

However, Ryu is unlikely to *EVER* admit what is blatantly obvious (Cloud loves Aerith romantically). So I thought I'd present these arguments to other Cloti's that may be persuadable.

Further -- my post wasn't directed at you specifically. I already know you believe Cloud loves Aerith romantically. However, my post was directed at everyone on this forum, particularly those who don't think Cloud loved Aerith romantically.

Maybe you've not used that specific wording, but essentially the same point has been made, including by me (e.g. "We wouldn't say he's just a symbol of her friend rather than her actual friend, so why would we say he's a symbol of her koibito rather than her actual koibito?").

I'm glad you've made the same argument. But my post wasn't just directed towards you.

But, again, Cloud's love for Aerith isn't in question, so why are we talking about it as though it were?

I already know you believe Cloud loved Aerith romantically. But according to Ryu, Cloud's love for Aerith *IS* in question. And, I'm assuming, some of the other Cloti's on this forum also believe Cloud's love for Aerith is in question. Maybe we should take a poll?

IMO, it seems to be a recent development for you to finally admit Cloud loves Aerith romantically. Some members on the CxA forum were shocked to hear this. Therefore, I don't think it's safe to assume everyone here at the Lifestream Forums agrees with your new-found belief.

NOTICEI'd like to take this moment to discourage everyone from replying further to BlankBeat's "new" arguments about the FTOIL page, the date and "koibito." You are free to do so if you'd like, but I suspect you would be falling prey to distraction bait.

It takes me at least a few days to respond to you. Why? Because our discussion has grown and incorporates many different issues. When I put it in a word document, it ranges anywhere from 8 to 12 pages. Unlike you, I don't have the motivation to respond freakishly fast considering how many pages our debate has grown to. We're just different that way.

Regardless, we've been debating for several weeks now. I simply want to take a break and discuss something else. But rest assured, I don't agree with hardly anything you said in your response.

But, whatever, dude. I don't like the way I've been treated as of late, so my desire to respond to anything is diminishing. But, I'm sure you think it's my fault for people treating me badly. I still have no clue if Ryu has been punished for repeating the same behavior that got him banned a few weeks ago.

 

[Dashell]

I still have no clue if Ryu has been punished for repeating the same behavior that got him banned a few weeks ago.

Because they don't tell you this. When you make a report they deal with in it private. That goes for everywhere even not in the LTD thread

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Just putting it out there that Cloud was around both Tifa and Aerith for more then just the Gold Saucer date. So his feelings for both of them could easily be developing elsewhere/when. In fact, it feels more probable that the feelings he had for both of them did develop elsewhere with the Gold Saucer date being Tifa/Aerith acting the romatic development they've been seeing up until then. Either way, it's Tifa/Aerith/Yuffie/Barret that are the ones that decide to take Cloud on a date, not the other way around. So I really don't see the Gold Saucer date being a cometary on Cloud's feelings, but on everyone else's.

As it is, it is entirely possible to get the Aerith Gold Saucer date, but also to get the High Affection Highwind scene. So the two events don't impact each other.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I stand corrected. I *DID* make that point all the way back in 2012. I admire your commitment to find a post that is almost two years old -- a post I had completely forgotten about.

It took all of about ten seconds. =P

Cloud is the only FFVII protagonist that is being discussed on the FTOIL page, which is what we are discussing =P

No, he's not. Cloud is not the only protagonist of FFVII, nor the only one discussed on the page.

Yes. You have (again) misunderstood me.

I will reiterate my point (again):
This is the stated intent of the FTOIL page: "Through the long journeys, the love of the protagonists develop."

Do you see that word? DEVELOP. The love of the protagonist DEVELOPS. The FTOIL page is giving examples of protagonists and their love DEVELOPING.

Did I notice that word that I included in the passage of the post you're quoting? Yes. Yes, I did. Shockingly enough.

*YOU* aren't denying Cloud's love for Aerith. But Ryu is. Which is why I presented these arguments to him.

You addressed it to me, dude:

Taking a little break from my debate with Tres (because, yes, I am tired). But rest assured, I have lots to say in response to your latest post.

I know the FTOIL page and the "koibito" quote have been discussed thoroughly. But during my response to Ryu, I did come up with a few points I hadn't thought of before. So, I'd love some feedback: ...

In your first sentence you referred to me in the third person, so you were presumably addressing everyone. In your second sentence, you refer to me in the second person ("your"), so you're addressing me.

There's no indication that you aren't still addressing me in the following paragraph, and when you referenced Ryu, it was in the third person, which means you weren't addressing him.

However, Ryu is unlikely to *EVER* admit what is blatantly obvious (Cloud loves Aerith romantically). So I thought I'd present these arguments to other Cloti's that may be persuadable.

Further -- my post wasn't directed at you specifically. I already know you believe Cloud loves Aerith romantically. However, my post was directed at everyone on this forum, particularly those who don't think Cloud loved Aerith romantically.

Okay, I can accept that you were addressing everyone, but you definitely weren't addressing Ryu specifically. You only said that your response to Ryu led to those ideas coming up.

I concluded you were talking to me because that's how you worded the opening of your post. And that's not my fault.

IMO, it seems to be a recent development for you to finally admit Cloud loves Aerith romantically. Some members on the CxA forum were shocked to hear this. Therefore, I don't think it's safe to assume everyone here at the Lifestream Forums agrees with your new-found belief.

Here's a post from January 13, 2010 (only four months after I joined TLS) where I said "For the record, I do think Cloud was attracted to Aerith" and then the following in response to Mako asking "I'm asking for when the heck these romantic feelings were manifested by Cloud":

"In fairness, a line like, 'But I'm..... we're here for you, right?' may not establish a romantic relationship, but it does sound like a classic line you'd see from someone with an interest backpedaling mid-sentence to cover it up."

It takes me at least a few days to respond to you. Why? Because our discussion has grown and incorporates many different issues. When I put it in a word document, it ranges anywhere from 8 to 12 pages. Unlike you, I don't have the motivation to respond freakishly fast considering how many pages our debate has grown to. We're just different that way.

I haven't complained about the time you take to respond?

Now, are you done with what still appears a poor attempt at distraction?

But, whatever, dude. I don't like the way I've been treated as of late, so my desire to respond to anything is diminishing. But, I'm sure you think it's my fault for people treating me badly. I still have no clue if Ryu has been punished for repeating the same behavior that got him banned a few weeks ago.

Because they don't tell you this. When you make a report they deal with in it private. That goes for everywhere even not in the LTD thread

Yeah, it is decided in private, and depending on the situation, how it's addressed may be revealed to a specific person or even publically, but it's not something that should be expected in every situation.

Since BlankBeat insists on hashing this one out in public, we've decided that we will.

BlankBeat, no action is being taken against Ryu for the post you reported. While there was more than one thing wrong with it, the post he was responding to from you was also insulting and antagonistic of him.

Several comments in that exchange were on the border, if not over it. Both of you have room to chill out.

In your case, your backseat moderating and making demands of the staff is also expected to stop immediately. That's against forum rules as well.

 

[Strangelove]

Did I notice that word that I included in the passage of the post you're quoting? Yes. Yes, I did. Shockingly enough.

i'm finding it funny that your translation is not 'just a translation' now. in this case it gets bold, red, underlined letters and repeated multiple times

funny but not at all surprising

 

[BlankBeat]

I'll try to concisely explain my point regarding the FTOIL page since there seems to be some confusion:

This is the stated purpose of Square Enxi’s "For the One I Love" [FTOIL] page:

"Through the long journeys, the love of the protagonists develop."

The FTOIL page is giving examples of protagonists and their love developing. Cloud is pictured with Aerith during their Gold Saucer date on the FTOIL page. Therefore, Cloud is developing love for Aerith during the course of the Gold Saucer date.

Some counter points have been brought up, however: 1) Cloud is ignorant of Aerith’s feelings for him while on the date 2) Cloud doesn’t show any physical or verbal indication that he’s interested in Aerith while on their date

But guess what? The stated purpose of FTOIL page proves, that despite Cloud’s ignorance of Aerith’s feelings for him, and despite his lack of romantic behavior, he is developing love for Aerith during the course of their date. He’s doing so within his mind. Point is — Cloud is developing love for Aerith during the course of their date. We know this from the intent of the FTOIL page:

"…the love of the protagonists develop.”

Further — Cloud x Aerith’s date is canon. This means Cloud developed love for Aerith during the course of the Gold Saucer date:

“#111: The Planet’s largest amusement park is run by Dio. Cloud and company visit this place many times in their battle. They meet Cait Sith here. A PROMISED date [there is only one promised date in the game] takes place..."~Final Fantasy Art Collection

“In Aerith’s case, if you play the game normally, the partner that generally comes will be Aerith.” ~Final Fantasy VII Dismantled

“Oh, Cloud…I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful. I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget you, Cloud…” ~Aerith, Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix

Cloud Strife loved Aerith Gainsborough. He developed love for her while on their date during Gold Saucer. Case officially closed.

--------------------

Just putting it out there that Cloud was around both Tifa and Aerith for more then just the Gold Saucer date. So his feelings for both of them could easily be developing elsewhere/when. In fact, it feels more probable that the feelings he had for both of them did develop elsewhere with the Gold Saucer date being Tifa/Aerith acting the romatic development they've been seeing up until then.

I agree. The Gold Saucer date is one of *MANY* examples of Cloud's love developing for Aerith. But the FTOIL page proves, indisputably, that Cloud is developing love during the course of the Gold Saucer date. That is the stated intent of the FTOIL page: "Through the long journeys, the love of the protagonists develop."

Either way, it's Tifa/Aerith/Yuffie/Barret that are the ones that decide to take Cloud on a date, not the other way around. So I really don't see the Gold Saucer date being a cometary on Cloud's feelings, but on everyone else's.

Not to be rude, but, so what?

I agree that Aerith/Tifa/Yuffie/Barret take Cloud on the date. But how does that prevent Cloud from developing love while on the date?

Are you saying you can only develop love while on a date if you are the one who initiates the date...!?!?

I've had people ask me on dates and I developed romantic feelings for them while on the date. The fact that they were the ones to initiate the date didn't prevent me from developing romantic feelings for them. Why would it?

As it is, it is entirely possible to get the Aerith Gold Saucer date, but also to get the High Affection Highwind scene. So the two events don't impact each other.

Both the Clerith date and the HA Highwind scene are on the FTOIL page.
Both the Clerith date and the HA Highwind scene are given preferential treatment by SE on multiple occasions.

Therefore, Cloud's love develops for Aerith while on the Gold Saucer date, and his love for Tifa develops during the HA Highwind scene.

If FFVII were a movie, the Clerith date would be chosen and the HA Highwind scene would be chosen. Bottom line: Cloud's love develops for both Aerith and Tifa during the course of these events.

IMO, the HA Highwind scene and the Clerith Gold Saucer date are just another example of Cloud *WAVERING* between two heroines.

--------------------

Because they don't tell you this. When you make a report they deal with in it private. That goes for everywhere even not in the LTD thread

Oh. Last time Ryu was banned, I was told in a PM by one of the moderators. The PM was titled "Staff's decision". I'm not going to say who sent me that PM, because I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but I just thought I'd be notified like I was last time. But I guess that was an exception to the rule. Thanks for the clarification.

--------------------

It took all of about ten seconds. =P

How? Do you have my posts saved or something? Or did you do a search for random words?

No, he's not. Cloud is not the only protagonist of FFVII, nor the only one discussed on the page.

EDIT:
I just re-read the FTOIL page.

The FTOIL page is talking about the main hero and the main heroine of each game and their love. The male protagonist and the female protagonist. But in FFVII, there are two female protagonists.

You could have just said that instead of playing games. Obviously when I think of the protagonist, I think of one person -- the hero/main character of the game.

You addressed it to me, dude:

I thought I was clear in my post (but I guess not): despite taking a break from debating with you, I still have lots to say in response to your previous post. But because I stated I was on a break, I didn't think you'd think the rest of my post was specifically addressed to you. I said I was on a break from debating with you. And I already know you believe Cloud loved Aerith. So why would I address my post to you?

Okay, I can accept that you were addressing everyone, but you definitely weren't addressing Ryu specifically. You only said that your response to Ryu led to those ideas coming up.

Right. My response to Ryu is what led me to those ideas. I wanted to direct those ideas to everyone on the forum because Ryu will never admit what is obvious -- Cloud loves Aerith.

Here's a post from January 13, 2010[/URL] (only four months after I joined TLS) where I said "For the record, I do think Cloud was attracted to Aerith" and then the following in response to Mako asking "I'm asking for when the heck these romantic feelings were manifested by Cloud":

"In fairness, a line like, 'But I'm..... we're here for you, right?' may not establish a romantic relationship, but it does sound like a classic line you'd see from someone with an interest backpedaling mid-sentence to cover it up."

Your involvement in the "LTD over" article led many to conclude otherwise. And the "LTD over" article was far more well-known than random comments posted in a thread -- comments that are still rather ambiguous. You seem to allude to Cloud's love for Aerith, but you haven't directly said it until fairly recently.

I haven't complained about the time you take to respond?

Never said you did.

Now, are you done with what still appears a poor attempt at distraction?

Nope.

Yeah, it is decided in private, and depending on the situation, how it's addressed may be revealed to a specific person or even publically, but it's not something that should be expected in every situation.

Since BlankBeat insists on hashing this one out in public, we've decided that we will.

BlankBeat, no action is being taken against Ryu for the post you reported. While there was more than one thing wrong with it, the post he was responding to from you was also insulting and antagonistic of him.

Several comments in that exchange were on the border, if not over it. Both of you have room to chill out.

In your case, your backseat moderating and making demands of the staff is also expected to stop immediately. That's against forum rules as well.

I received a PM about the decision last time. And it doesn't surprise me to see the decision that has been made.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Again, there's not really a rule. I just explained in my previous post that it all depends on the situation, what's discussed and what's agreed upon.

Now, Blank, stop trying to stir up shit. If you weren't trying to make a stink, you wouldn't be mentioning what you think is bus-throwable information (it isn't; I sent that PM), nor saying crap like "it doesn't surprise me to see the decision that has been made." You're being petulant, whiney and provocative (not the good kind).

A decision was made based on your behavior and Ryu's, and you're going to have to live with it just as he had to when a decision he didn't especially care for was made.

This is the last it's going to be discussed. The next time you or anyone else brings up this matter, it's going to be treated as trolling and moderated accordingly.

How? Do you have my posts saved or something? Or did you do a search for random words?

I think it was a search of your posts that included "date," "develops" and "triangle."

So you don't think the FTOIL page is primarily focusing on the main character (ie: the protagonist) of each FF? You're really splitting hairs, dude.

No, you just aren't using the word right. Cloud is not the only protagonist of the game.

Your involvement in the "LTD over" article led many to conclude otherwise. And the "LTD over" article was far more well-known than random comments posted in a thread -- comments that are still rather ambiguous. You seem to allude to Cloud's love for Aerith, but you haven't directly said it until fairly recently.

It's not ambiguous unless you're trying to distort it. Look at the question from Mako I was replying to for fuck's sake.

 

[Sprites]

Therefore, Cloud's love develops for Aerith while on the Gold Saucer date, and his love for Tifa develops during the HA Highwind scene

While I won't disagree that Cloud could have developed feelings and love for Aerith during the game I will disagree with what you're saying about Tifa and him only developing those feelings/love for her during HWHA, Cloud has always had feelings (and probably love) for Tifa. In the game during the time Tifa went into the lifestream it becomes apparent that Cloud had feelings for Tifa, he even says he wanted her to notice him the most, that is, the REAL Cloud, those feelings for Tifa were always there they were just unfortunately distorted like every other bit of him when his mind shattered.

Now again I'm not saying he couldn't have had feelings or fallen for Aerith during the game even I once upon a time preferred CloudxAerith to CloudxTifa but I think it's unfair to say that his feelings or love for Tifa only developed once the HWHA scene takes place and the same goes for Tifa, she tells Cloud during the lifestream sequence she thought about him a lot more after their promise is made and hoped to hear news from him.

What is fair to say is that it's at that point of the HWHA scene that they're only able to actually tell each other that this is actually how they feel about one another, the Real Cloud's feelings and love for Tifa were always there and the same for her, it just took a long time for them to tell each other they both felt that way.