The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Morana]

^

Also, Cloud could have died after he was shot by Yazoo but Aerith apparently brought him back. So even if Cloud commits suicide for Aerith, she'll (and maybe Zack too) bring him back to Tifa before he's totally dies IMO.

Oh, that Aerith. She just doesn't understand that Cloud wants to be with her. She always brings him back to that nagging clingy Tifa. Oh, all the tragic misunderstandings and confusion.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Here's what the love relations are like if you extend them beyond Cloud and Tifa and Aerith:
Cloud likes Tifa
Tifa likes Cloud
Aerith likes Cloud
Yuffie(as her date seems to imply) likes Cloud
Jessie likes Cloud
Priscilla likes Cloud
Rude likes Tifa
Johnny likes Tifa
Aerith likes Zack
Zack likes Aerith
Tseng likes Aerith
Rude likes Chelsea
Chelsea likes Rude
Johnny likes his girlfriend
Johnny's girlfriend likes Johnny
That ones lady who works on the first floor of the Shinra building likes Zack
Tseng likes Elena
Elena likes Tseng
Mukki likes Cloud
Corneo likes Tifa
Corneo likes crossdressed Cloud
Corneo likes Aerith
Corneo likes Yuffie
Corneo likes Elena
As you can see, the love triangle becomes a lot moar complicated than a triangle if you bring other people into the equation. If you're wondering why I did this, it's cause I felt like it.

 

[Morana]

Here's what the love relations are like if you extend them beyond Cloud and Tifa and Aerith:
Cloud likes Tifa
Tifa likes Cloud
Aerith likes Cloud
Yuffie(as her date seems to imply) likes Cloud
Jessie likes Cloud
Priscilla likes Cloud
Rude likes Tifa
Johnny likes Tifa
Aerith likes Zack
Zack likes Aerith
Tseng likes Aerith
Rude likes Chelsea
Chelsea likes Rude
Johnny likes his girlfriend
Johnny's girlfriend likes Johnny
That ones lady who works on the first floor of the Shinra building likes Zack
Tseng likes Elena
Elena likes Tseng
Mukki likes Cloud
Corneo likes Tifa
Corneo likes crossdressed Cloud
Corneo likes Aerith
Corneo likes Yuffie
Corneo likes Elena
As you can see, the love triangle becomes a lot moar complicated than a triangle if you bring other people into the equation. If you're wondering why I did this, it's cause I felt like it.

Now you don't have the triangle. You have a very confusing mentally exhausting soap opera.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Now you don't have the triangle. You have a very confusing mentally exhausting soap opera.

Yep

 

[Splintered]

Mukki likes Cloud

canon guys i'm sorry everyone can go home.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Now you don't have the triangle. You have a very confusing mentally exhausting soap opera.

No, my friend, you have Farce, specifically Ranma 1/2.

Ranma is engaged to- Akane, Ukyou, Shampoo. He likes Akane best, but won't admit it. Akane is the same.

Ranma is also being pursued by Tatewaki Kuno, Kodachi Kuno, and multiple random men and women. (Did I mention, Ranma changes gender sometimes. Wacky comedy hijinks ensue.)

Akane is also pursued by Ryouga, Tatewaki Kuno, Herb, and many random men.

Shampoo is also pursued by a nearsighted man named Mousse.

This is the short version. Add in to this that half the cast randomly changes into women, cats, ducks, pigs, and pandas, and yeah. Quite farcical.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

I've been debating with someone about whether Clack or Cloti is teh cannonz:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197341-final-fantasy-vii/64426450

Dammit, clack is winning agin!(at least this thread made Ryu return to GameFAQs)

 

[Vendel]

I remember reading how Tifa was a nagging bitch because she wanted Cloud to stop wallowing in misery and do something. Yes, she should have let him die so he could be with Aerith. Come on, even Aerith herself wanted him to fight. Not mention world would be gone if there wasn't for Tifa's so called nagging.

I like how Tifa is clingy, nagging and doesn't understand Cloud. You know, the exact opposite of the way the is portrayed and described by the creators.

But wait, I thought that Tifa now loved Cloud like a mother would? Because Cloud is a "big kid" you see. No wait, they are a family of friends!

Also Cloud and Tifa are not childhood friends. Tifa only likes the hero fantasy she built up around Cloud (Aerith loved the real Cloud). The player can control if Tifa loves Cloud (but not Cloud or Aerith's feelings strangely enough). Tifa and Cloud also never talk or act like two people in love/in a relationship (Aerith and Cloud apparently do).

I could go on.

 

[Morana]

I like how Tifa is clingy, nagging and doesn't understand Cloud. You know, the exact opposite of the way the is portrayed and described by the creators.

But wait, I thought that Tifa now loved Cloud like a mother would? Because Cloud is a "big kid" you see. No wait, they are a family of friends!

Also Cloud and Tifa are not childhood friends. Tifa only likes the hero fantasy she built up around Cloud (Aerith loved the real Cloud). The player can control if Tifa loves Cloud (but not Cloud or Aerith's feelings strangely enough). Tifa and Cloud also never talk or act like two people in love/in a relationship (Aerith and Cloud apparently do).

I could go on.

I know. Tifa is everything except a woman Cloud loves and has a family with.

I just hate when Aerith and Tifa are misrepresented just for the sake of LTD. And Cloud too for the record.

I get that some people don't like Tifa but they can't argue about Tifa and Cloud not being childhood friends when they are, they can't call Tifa clingy and nagging because she isn't, they can't say Tifa is Cloud's mother when she isn't, they can't say Tifa doesn't know Cloud when she is the one person that knows him the best. All these are facts.
And frankly, disliking Tifa doesn't change the fact that Cloud loves her and that they are together. Opinions are fine but facts are facts. I don't like Kagome at all but I never denied that Inuyasha loves her and that they are a canon couple.
Also, I don't like Aerith but I would never call her slut, clingy, desperate, stupid..etc. You know why? Because she isn't.
Distorting character's personality to support preferred pairing is my pet peeve in every fandom.

 

[Danseru-kun]

All these are facts.
And frankly, disliking Tifa doesn't change the fact that Cloud loves her and that they are together. Opinions are fine but facts are facts.

Even if you give them official quotes showing facts, they will retort that you're only giving your opinion as much as they are giving theirs.

If it's something Cloti, it cannot be a fact, only an opinion. This is a convenient position for those who cannot offer facts to prove their ship so they will take down the rival ship to "opinion level."

 

[Morana]

Even if you give them official quotes showing facts, they will retort that you're only giving your opinion as much as they are giving theirs.

If it's something Cloti, it cannot be a fact, only an opinion. This is a convenient position for those who cannot offer facts to prove their ship so they will take down the rival ship to "opinion level."

It is a classic "If I am going down, you are going down with me" move. Like you said, it is a convenient position. Albeit silly imo.

 

[Vendel]

I know. Tifa is everything except a woman Cloud loves and has a family with.

Yeah, it's funny how some people can hold half a dozen mutually exclusive views about Tifa (and other things). And yet SE are the ones who are contradicting themselves every time they come out with something that seems "cloti".


"Cloud would never ask Tifa to close the bar so he could spend time with her and the kids. He is telling her to do it for the AVALANCHE reunion party where they took that picture. Wait, the new Turks novel confirms that the AVALANCHE reunion was on the same day as the end of AC and not after Cloud met Aerith in the flower fields? CONTRADICTION!!!!!"

 

[I Am Not Me]

Not to keep beating a dead horse but...

Can someone seriously tell me how this perception ever came about? Seriously? I don't understand. I am unable to comprehend. How did this person came up with this headcanon? Really?

Was there any hint that Tifa was interested in Zack even once? I love Fack and I think if there was any hint that Tifa was interested in Zack I would pick up on it because I had Fack shipper goggles on since reading FHS's Splintered Dreams.

If I missed it, I would like to be enlightened.

 

[Sikozu]

^Isn't that the terrible (and willful) misinterpretation of Tifa's character?

Tifa's shallow, only wants a hero to fulfill her desire of being saved like a princess, only took an interest in Cloud after he mentioned he wanted to join SOLDIER, and so on. The idea that Tifa must really be into Zack because he fits better into the role of storybook hero and was a top SOLDIER, unlike Cloud who didn't make the cut and is somber and introverted and stuff...

I think it's been claimed that Tifa showed more interest in Cloud's fake personality than his real one(and that post-VII she tries to push him into being more like that which was supposed to have been, to them, the main problem between them in CoT and Advent Children), which is supposed to be a lot like Zack.

I could harp about the way some folk view Tifa all day. One thing I really hate is how Tifa is regularly condemned for fantasizing, at the age of thirteen, about white knights and being rescued by a handsome hero, but when those same people are discussing what it is about Clerith that they like so much, almost all of them mention the fantasy aspect as a major draw!

ARRRRRGHH double standards! D: Frustrating.

 

[Splintered]

If she's just doing it for the fantasy, man she must have pretty shit fantasies, since she's been working to support three plus herself, raising two kids that aren't her own, one that was terminally ill, and mentally supported an emotional cripple like Cloud- once at the point of dedicating herself to watching him over as he was a vegetable. In fact, the reason why she had Cloud stick with them initially wasn't for him to save her, it's for her to make sure he was okay because he was acting strangely.

Livin' the dream, man. wat a selfish bitch duh.

Not to mention that while he's away, she actually takes up martial arts so she can get stronger herself. That doesn't sound like a girl who necessarily dreams about a super cool guy to save her. It sounds like a girl who craves a strong bond with a person she has come to be interested in.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

^Well in a letter in Crisis Core she does say in a letter that the reason she took up martial arts was because she was tired of waiting for Cloud to return so he could protect her, so she decided to learn how to protect herself. Just sayin'.

But I don't understand how anyone could think Tifa was interested in Zack, especially since in CC she was wondering about Cloud the whole time. The letter I mentioned especially shows this.

Ands the most hilarious thing about the Cleriths who say Aerith was in love with the real Cloud is the fact that Aerith never even knew the real Cloud. And if anybody's in love with Cloud because of his similarities to Zack, it's Aerith.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Ands the most hilarious thing about the Cleriths who say Aerith was in love with the real Cloud is the fact that Aerith never even knew the real Cloud. And if anybody's in love with Cloud because of his similarities to Zack, it's Aerith.

Now Matthew, Aerith was interested in Cloud because of his similarities to Zack, but she saw through that and loved him.

I’m looking for you.”…”So you won’t have a breakdown.” - what Aerith told Cloud reveals many deep meanings. Aerith detected that the present Cloud is not the real him during their encounters. She knows it because of her mysterious, inherent ability. page 29, FFVII Ultimania Omega

When Aerith thinks of Cloud and Zack’s similarities, she sees that the present Cloud is not the real Cloud. Her meaningful lines like, “I’m searching for you” and “I want to meet you” all mean that she has discovered the existence of the real Cloud, although he’s not aware of it himself. ~page 31, FFVII Ultimania Omega [/I}

But she saw the real Cloud but how much she "knew" is a debate, because Real Cloud barely surfaces in Disc 1 for Aerith to know. Well it's debate if she was able to "meet" Real Cloud or if she did meet him, we can never really say "she met a little or she met much." But seeing how Cloud cherishes Aerith, cares for her and how her death affected him we can say all the time Real Cloud knew Aerith even if that persona is underneath a fake one. Real Cloud persona is never absent anyway in Disc 1, it's just repressed persona without Cloud realizing it.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Of course Real Cloud knew Aerith, it's not like he'd forget his time as Illusory Cloud. It's that Aerith never knew Real Cloud, because during the time they knew each other he was Illusory Cloud. He didn't become Real Cloud again until after Aerith died.

 

[Dashell]

Does anyone know what makes us keep coming back to this? I keep viewing this topic even when I try so hard not to...

Seriously I can't figure it out...
Why do you guys keep coming back? XD

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

To see if there has been any cray-cray that'd be worth a laugh. Or, if there has in fact been laugh worthy insanity, to argue with it.

 

[Vendel]

Of course Real Cloud knew Aerith, it's not like he'd forget his time as Illusory Cloud. It's that Aerith never knew Real Cloud, because during the time they knew each other he was Illusory Cloud. He didn't become Real Cloud again until after Aerith died.

Exactly. Knowing that there is a real Cloud under the surface does not equal knowing the real Cloud.

 

[Morana]

Not to keep beating a dead horse but...

Can someone seriously tell me how this perception ever came about? Seriously? I don't understand. I am unable to comprehend. How did this person came up with this headcanon? Really?

Was there any hint that Tifa was interested in Zack even once? I love Fack and I think if there was any hint that Tifa was interested in Zack I would pick up on it because I had Fack shipper goggles on since reading FHS's Splintered Dreams.

If I missed it, I would like to be enlightened.

What the hell? Tifa was never interested in Zack. She is not some fangirl who only wanted a Soldier boyfriend. Besides, wasn't she a little put off by Cloud's sometimes arrogant behavior? And she was confused because that's not who Cloud was.

On the other hand, Fack is awesome.

 

[Elisa Maza]

http://www.siliconera.com/2012/11/2...ies-condensed-into-three-memorial-ultimanias/

SE will publish new Ultimanias.

Aaaand, we're back in the old business.

 

[Danseru-kun]

^

As for that, people are already making an issue on Cloud's memorial lines. I can't understand the first one but so far here are what I get from my elementary Japanese skills:


“I never really lived up to being Cloud. Tifa… Maybe one day you’ll meet the real Cloud.”
Cloud's line aboard the Highwind
"Mom... Tifa... give them back!"
"My mouth is dry" line in Aerith's death
"Everyone let's go"

 

[Sikozu]

Does anyone know what makes us keep coming back to this? I keep viewing this topic even when I try so hard not to...

Seriously I can't figure it out...
Why do you guys keep coming back? XD

No comment. (；一_&#19968

So guys.... I hate to bring this up again, but

*Gollum whisper* koooooiiiiibittooooo

I think I'm pretty clear on the its uses. I'm just curious if any of you can think of any examples in anime or video games or something where someone has used it in a one-sided sense that's been proven to have actually been one-sided?

I thought it might help if I could give the person I'm talking to something like that to consider.