The Morality Of The Planet And Jenova

[jazzflower92]

In Final Fantasy 7, the planet is regarded as a living thing that does whatever it takes to protect itself. However, some note how it seems to care little for its own inhabitants and is willing to set the weapons off on human populations.

Another display of its Blue and Orange morality is the existence of Omega which seems to function similarly like Jenova. It makes one think that the planet and her are not so different from each other. Both seem to look out for themselves and often hurt others in order to survive.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

What is Blue and Orange mentality? This is not a phrase I know.

 

[jazzflower92]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality

 

[ForceStealer]

jazzflower's a freakin tvtropes Pez dispenser.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Her life has indeed been ruined.

 

[Ghost X]

Well, I think the difference between Jenova and the planet is that if you act in the planet's interest, you can have your life or whatever, but if you act in Jenova's interests... well...

 

[jazzflower92]

Well, I think the difference between Jenova and the planet is that if you act in the planet's interest, you can have your life or whatever, but if you act in Jenova's interests... well...

I think Jenova could started out like her own planet's version of Omega or Chaos until it was destroyed and she was left to wander the universe. Although for some reason this makes me want to ship Chaos and Jenova together for some weird reason.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I don't think Jenova's like Omega. It's been stated that she's a parasite. Even at it's worst, the Planet has never been shown to consume anything. If anything, it gives life more often then it takes it.

Keep in mind that the Omega we see in DoC is not the true Omega the way it's supposed to be formed. Omega is only supposed to be formed when a large amount of life dies unexpectedly. It's real purpose is to take the Lifestream (mako) from the Planet (the rock) if the Planet can't support the Lifestream, otherwise, it doesn't have a reason to even form. It seems logical to me that the ideal situation for Omega would be to find a Planet that doesn't have a Lifestream force attached to it, in order for the Lifestream to begin functioning normally.

Jenova on the other hand, need life (a Lifestream) to feed off of in order to get more energy to travel through the stars. She doesn't have an internal cycle the way the Lifestream does.

 

[AvecAloes]

^I agree. The way I understand it, Jenova is always actively seeking to destroy planets in order to thrive itself, whereas Omega will leave a dying planet, take the Lifestream with it, and create life elsewhere if absolutely necessary. I don't think the two are similar at all.

 

[Ite]

I feel like the Planet acts very much like an organism, but an extraordinarily stupid one, as in, doesn't exhibit intelligence. Cid calls it a kid, but I would liken it more to a wailing infant.

Weapon, in my mind, wasn't created based on some arbiting reason that the Planet had. It was developed instinctively, like white blood cells. And, like white blood cells, it attacks whatever it senses is wrong. Or think of them as an allergic reaction to Jenova, a harmful substance. They also happen to react to humans, which is like my pollen allergy preventing me from enjoying raw berries. The Planet is a sophisticated and elegant organism, but I wouldn't call it smart.

Likewise with Jenova. Her methodology is elegant, resourceful, and reactive to the point of being invincible. But at the end of the day, it's just what she does in order to eat.

 

[jazzflower92]

I feel like the Planet acts very much like an organism, but an extraordinarily stupid one, as in, doesn't exhibit intelligence. Cid calls it a kid, but I would liken it more to a wailing infant.

Weapon, in my mind, wasn't created based on some arbiting reason that the Planet had. It was developed instinctively, like white blood cells. And, like white blood cells, it attacks whatever it senses is wrong. Or think of them as an allergic reaction to Jenova, a harmful substance. They also happen to react to humans, which is like my pollen allergy preventing me from enjoying raw berries. The Planet is a sophisticated and elegant organism, but I wouldn't call it smart.

Likewise with Jenova. Her methodology is elegant, resourceful, and reactive to the point of being invincible. But at the end of the day, it's just what she does in order to eat.

So, basically the planet acts just like a big baby who can only operate on a vague sense of morality. While Jenova I see seems to draw her morality from the mythology of the Fair Folk. Although she seems to work on an alien sense of morals some of her actions can be interpreted by human norms as manipulative. Like how she drew the Cetra into trusting her so she could infect them.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

jazzflower92: Jenova is manipulative as any other parasite is. There is no getting around that she is a parasite. Without something to feed off of, she isn't alive.

The Planet/Lifestream is a complete being though. It grows bigger though itself and does not need any outside source to survive.

If anything, the Lifestrem is like a spirit/soul, and the living beings on the Planet are like it's body (not a perfect analogy, but bear with me). The Jenova crisis is like what happens when a foreign invader (like virus, bacteria) attacks a body. Shin-Ra draining the Lifestream is like what happens when the body attacks itself (like an autoimmune disease, cancer). I'd say the Planet is acting it it's best interest the way the body's functions act in the bodies best interest.

And sometimes the body's functions go overboard in an attempt to fix whatever they sense is wrong with the body...

 

[jazzflower92]

jazzflower92: Jenova is manipulative as any other parasite is. There is no getting around that she is a parasite. Without something to feed off of, she isn't alive.

The Planet/Lifestream is a complete being though. It grows bigger though itself and does not need any outside source to survive.

If anything, the Lifestrem is like a spirit/soul, and the living beings on the Planet are like it's body (not a perfect analogy, but bear with me). The Jenova crisis is like what happens when a foreign invader (like virus, bacteria) attacks a body. Shin-Ra draining the Lifestream is like what happens when the body attacks itself (like an autoimmune disease, cancer). I'd say the Planet is acting it it's best interest the way the body's functions act in the bodies best interest.

And sometimes the body's functions go overboard in an attempt to fix whatever they sense is wrong with the body...

If I remember anything aren't viruses also programmed to inject their own DNA into cells. Just like how Jenova spreads her cells around a planet. That brings up another question is there a possibility she is not the only one of her kind. How many of these world destroying viruses are there?

 

[ForceStealer]

There could be thousands, millions even and you'd likely never see another. Space is big, after all.

 

[Knuxson]

It makes me wonder if Jenova has ever encountered as much difficulty killing a planet as she has had with the FFVII Planet. Maybe it was the first planet she encountered with intelligent life that has put up a fight (the Cetra imprisoning her and Cloud and co. defeating her). Less evolved life probably was easy for her to destroy. We will probably never know, but it is interesting to think about, I think.

 

[jazzflower92]

It makes me wonder if Jenova has ever encountered as much difficulty killing a planet as she has had with the FFVII Planet. Maybe it was the first planet she encountered with intelligent life that has put up a fight (the Cetra imprisoning her and Cloud and co. defeating her). Less evolved life probably was easy for her to destroy. We will probably never know, but it is interesting to think about, I think.

That would make sense why the Cetra manage to take her down because she was maybe used to invading on planets with less intelligent life forms.

 

[Ite]

But they didn't take her down. If it hadn't been for AVALANCHE, she would have won.

 

[jazzflower92]

But they didn't take her down. If it hadn't been for AVALANCHE, she would have won.

And she and her son would have succeeded if it weren't for those meddling adventurers and Aerith using the Life stream to destroy "Meteor".

 

[Shademp]

From the FFVII Series Terms & Definitions in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania:

Weapon

For the sake of planetary self defense, “Things The Planet Deems Evil” are removed from existence. After Jenova, the “Calamity from the Sky” was successfully sealed, they slept stretched along the Northern Crater. However, when Sephiroth summoned Meteor, the crisis awakened the planet’s judgment of danger. Humans were “Deemed Evil by the Planet”, and various places were attacked.

Make of that what you will. In my opinion, there is some ambiguity as to whether humans themselves are deemed evil or their settlements. Ultima(te) Weapon attacks Mideel though, which is a town that showns no sign of mako use. Leaning towards humans in general being deemed evil, not just their settlements.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Well, Shinra was the one processing the Lifestream into energy, but plenty of humans were consuming that energy, and I doubt the planet has the ability to discriminate between producers and consumers. As far as s/he was concern, humans were sucking the Lifestream from the Planet - posing exactly the same threat as Jenova, in other words.

 

[jazzflower92]

Well, Shinra was the one processing the Lifestream into energy, but plenty of humans were consuming that energy, and I doubt the planet has the ability to discriminate between producers and consumers. As far as s/he was concern, humans were sucking the Lifestream from the Planet - posing exactly the same threat as Jenova, in other words.

Planet seems to be a low level mentality Genius loci.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GeniusLoci

 

[ForceStealer]

And I assume the meteorite that Jenova arrived on was the husk of a planetoid she had her way with? I don't know if that was ever explicitly stated besides Sephiroth attempting that very thing in Advent Children.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

How many lifeforms there are like Jenova, whether the creature ever encountered as much resistance as on FFVII's planet -- or, indeed, whether Jenova had ever attacked another planet successfully -- are all questions I'd rather not see answered.

As with the alien in John Carpenter's "The Thing" (which Jenova seems to be based on), the mystery is infinitely more creepy than the facts could ever be. The prequel to that movie almost killed some of that with showing us the inside to the creature's ship, but I think it stopped just shy of touching the untouched corners that should not be touched.

And I assume the meteorite that Jenova arrived on was the husk of a planetoid she had her way with? I don't know if that was ever explicitly stated besides Sephiroth attempting that very thing in Advent Children.

This has always been my thought. Either this or that Jenova is an Omega-like lifeform, and was just doing what the Phantom Gaia tried to do to Earth in The Spirits Within after it arrived on debris from its homeworld.

I don't think Jenova's like Omega. It's been stated that she's a parasite. Even at it's worst, the Planet has never been shown to consume anything. If anything, it gives life more often then it takes it.

To another planet, however, what would an invading Omega or Gaia be but a parasite?

FFIX's dying world of Terra survived by literally eating other planets, Lifestream and all. When it encountered a planet too strong to eat in a direct fashion (Gaia), Garland set about weakening its cycle of souls via the Iifa Tree so as to allow Terra's spirit to become strong enough to consume the other world's.

Similarly, in The Spirits Within, the Phantom homeworld's Gaia was consuming Earth's spirit one piece at a time via its inhabitants, converting their energy into its own until it became strong enough to directly infect the Earth's own Lifestream. That's almost exactly what happened in FFIX, and is exactly what Sephiroth was doing with geostigma.

So, yeah, I don't think there's necessarily a difference between Omega and a parasite once you get offworld from the planet where the Omega originated.

Keep in mind that the Omega we see in DoC is not the true Omega the way it's supposed to be formed. Omega is only supposed to be formed when a large amount of life dies unexpectedly. It's real purpose is to take the Lifestream (mako) from the Planet (the rock) if the Planet can't support the Lifestream, otherwise, it doesn't have a reason to even form. It seems logical to me that the ideal situation for Omega would be to find a Planet that doesn't have a Lifestream force attached to it, in order for the Lifestream to begin functioning normally

Would the planet be so kind? It doesn't even care about its own inhabitants beyond the overall survival of the cycle of souls system, so why would it care about another world's inhabitants? Terra didn't. The Phantom homeworld didn't either.

Jenova on the other hand, need life (a Lifestream) to feed off of in order to get more energy to travel through the stars. She doesn't have an internal cycle the way the Lifestream does.

While possibly true, this hasn't been confirmed in canon. For all we know, if Jenova were another planet's Omega, she could have been doing exactly what she was supposed to in order to establish herself/her dead world at the center of a new cycle of souls -- just as Sephiroth intended to.

I do think there's a case to be made for Jenova sucking up Lifestream given her similarities to Sin, which was constantly sucking up ambient pyreflies, but -- unlike Sin -- I'm not convinced that Jenova wasn't trying to *become* FFVII's planet, just like Sephiroth ultimately tried to do once he (quote from his 10th Anniversary Ultimania profile) "inherited Jenova's will to destroy/rule the planet."

 

[jazzflower92]

How many lifeforms there are like Jenova, whether the creature ever encountered as much resistance as on FFVII's planet -- or, indeed, whether Jenova had ever attacked another planet successfully -- are all questions I'd rather not see answered.

As with the alien in John Carpenter's "The Thing" (which Jenova seems to be based on), the mystery is infinitely more creepy than the facts could ever be. The prequel to that movie almost killed some of that with showing us the inside to the creature's ship, but I think it stopped just shy of touching the untouched corners that should not be touched.



This has always been my thought. Either this or that Jenova is an Omega-like lifeform, and was just doing what the Phantom Gaia tried to do to Earth in The Spirits Within after it arrived on debris from its homeworld.



To another planet, however, what would an invading Omega or Gaia be but a parasite?

FFIX's dying world of Terra survived by literally eating other planets, Lifestream and all. When it encountered a planet too strong to eat in a direct fashion (Gaia), Garland set about weakening its cycle of souls via the Iifa Tree so as to allow Terra's spirit to become strong enough to consume the other world's.

Similarly, in The Spirits Within, the Phantom homeworld's Gaia was consuming Earth's spirit one piece at a time via its inhabitants, converting their energy into its own until it became strong enough to directly infect the Earth's own Lifestream. That's almost exactly what happened in FFIX, and is exactly what Sephiroth was doing with geostigma.

So, yeah, I don't think there's necessarily a difference between Omega and a parasite once you get offworld from the planet where the Omega originated.



Would the planet be so kind? It doesn't even care about its own inhabitants beyond the overall survival of the cycle of souls system, so why would it care about another world's inhabitants? Terra didn't. The Phantom homeworld didn't either.



While possibly true, this hasn't been confirmed in canon. For all we know, if Jenova were another planet's Omega, she could have been doing exactly what she was supposed to in order to establish herself/her dead world at the center of a new cycle of souls -- just as Sephiroth intended to.

I do think there's a case to be made for Jenova sucking up Lifestream given her similarities to Sin, which was constantly sucking up ambient pyreflies, but -- unlike Sin -- I'm not convinced that Jenova wasn't trying to *become* FFVII's planet, just like Sephiroth ultimately tried to do once he (quote from his 10th Anniversary Ultimania profile) "inherited Jenova's will to destroy/rule the planet."

Man, Jenova and the Planet seem to really have a Narcissistic personality if one thinks about it. They look out for number one and don't care who stands in the way of their goals. It makes one wonder why the Planet is so praised when its really more morally grey than it appears. It just takes one bad day for the planet to become like what Jenova is.

 

[OniRaitei]

When you take Bugenhagen to the city of the Ancients, he says that Holy has the potential to save the planet as well as wipe out humanity at the same time, but it was up to the planet to decide. The planet decided to spare the trouble making humans in the end, so you can give it some credit there.