The Official "Where will Rebirth end?" Thread

[Ite]

I think Vincent and Yuffie will both be Part 2 DLC

 

[Makoeyes987]

That literally makes no sense.

 

[looneymoon]

Vincent maybe? Yuffie will be in the main game regardless. She's already developed for in-game use, so that should be taken for granted. I think Vincent will make it in for sure, for the record.

I do see potential for playable Sephiroth and/or Zack DLC.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, why would Vincent (or any main playable character) be a DLC only character?

If the game is a trilogy and the last character we get to join the party is Cid in Rocket Town, there's no reason whatsoever that every playable character should not be within this game and part of the roster.

It's basically implying that either characters are getting cut from their own story or the 2nd act of the trilogy will for some reason fall short anywhere between Rocket Town and Nibelheim.

That's just unrealistic and would be incredibly weird design choice, like self sabotage.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I’m glad I’m not the only one with the idea for a boss fight against Cloud. I’ve also wondered about a fight between Cloud and Zack, like what are the chances of something like that happening and if so, who would we play as?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Kinda confuses and misrepresents the nature of Cloud's mental collapse.

Sephiroth broke him mentally through annihilating his sense of self and self esteem. Making him look like a fraud. That's not really leaving Cloud on a footing or capability to fight. Does no one even remember how Cloud left the party?

He apologizes to Tifa for being a fake and begging Hojo for a number. He's pathetic, small and weak. He thinks he's nothing and Sephiroth just absorbs him like that to obtain the Black Materia.

I don't understand how that translates into Cloud suddenly fighting. His purpose was to hand over the Black Materia and subsequently let himself die. So not sure why he'd be fighting anyone in such a state.

It literally kills the empathetic resonance and pity you're supposed to feel in seeing Cloud's world collapse around him and being reduced to nothing. I don't see what's added by fighting Cloud except just... fighting Cloud for lulz. And why would Zack be fighting him? That just seems like pure contrivance.

 

[Golden Ear]

If the lines from Cloud in the trailer "You were here 5 years ago...."ect are from the Northern Crater/Whirlwind Maze part then that might be an indication that Zack won't heavily interfere with the Cloud and the Party's main journey at least in Rebirth or at least until the very end of Rebirth. I suspect Zack will be treated as the ongoing mystery which I'd like to think would ease some people's worst fears about how they are treating and integrating Zack into the story so far. Still up in the air what exactly will happen in Part 3 though.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Cloud says, "you were here with me. Five years ago"

And Cloud's never been to the Northern Crater.

It has to have been somewhere Cloud and Zack were 5 years ago during their escape from Shinra. So the Shinra Mansion all the way to the spot Zack died.

 

[Golden Ear]

I'm talking about Sephiroth's illusion at the NC.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm talking about Sephiroth's illusion at the NC.

So you mean the fake Nibelheim they see in the Northern Crater. Gotcha.

That's actually a good point, it could easily be that and where that line is in context.

 

[LNK]

Yeah, why would Vincent (or any main playable character) be a DLC only character?

If the game is a trilogy and the last character we get to join the party is Cid in Rocket Town, there's no reason whatsoever that every playable character should not be within this game and part of the roster.

It's basically implying that either characters are getting cut from their own story or the 2nd act of the trilogy will for some reason fall short anywhere between Rocket Town and Nibelheim.

That's just unrealistic and would be incredibly weird design choice, like self sabotage.

If they are indeed saving wutai for game 3, I see no reason why they can't save Vincent as well.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Because it'd be terrible game design. It would be exemplifying one of the worst drawback aspects of spreading the FFVII story out across multiple games.

People aren't wanting to wait X amount of years to have the full experience of a mainline of FF with all of it's playable characters. Most want a full, holistic and immersive experience in one game. The sooner the better, especially since it's a trilogy. The FFVII story should not feel staggered more than it needs to. Holding things back akin to artificial scarcity is crappy and it reflects poor management of the project. The characters need to feel organically attached and experienced over the scope of the majority of the story as much as possible.

Also Vincent comes into the story far sooner especially since he's in Nibelheim. Wutai as a location can be visited as soon as obtaining Cid in the party member with the Tiny Bronco.

And I honestly don't think Wutai is going to be kept for the last part anyways. The developers just said it'd be "awhile" before we saw Wutai, which at the time, was over a year ago. That didn't mean it literally would be kept until the very end of the story.

 

[LNK]

Kinda confuses and misrepresents the nature of Cloud's mental collapse.

Sephiroth broke him mentally through annihilating his sense of self and self esteem. Making him look like a fraud. That's not really leaving Cloud on a footing or capability to fight. Does no one even remember how Cloud left the party?

He apologizes to Tifa for being a fake and begging Hojo for a number. He's pathetic, small and weak. He thinks he's nothing and Sephiroth just absorbs him like that to obtain the Black Materia.

I don't understand how that translates into Cloud suddenly fighting. His purpose was to hand over the Black Materia and subsequently let himself die. So not sure why he'd be fighting anyone in such a state.

It literally kills the empathetic resonance and pity you're supposed to feel in seeing Cloud's world collapse around him and being reduced to nothing. I don't see what's added by fighting Cloud except just... fighting Cloud for lulz. And why would Zack be fighting him? That just seems like pure contrivance.

These are all great points about the OG. That doesn't mean it's going to be handled in the exact same way in Rebirth though. As I said about Sephiroth's proposal in Remake, that lays groundwork for the possibility of Cloud actually turning on the group. As far as we know, this is all still a Remake by definition.

Because it'd be terrible game design. It would be exemplifying one of the worst drawback aspects of spreading the FFVII story out across multiple games.

I disagree. I think it'll give more time to breathe for the other characters. Including Vincent into game 2, will compress it even more. If this does indeed end at NC, that is ALOT of main content. I looked at the old strategy guide. From leaving midgar-handing over the black materia, it's around 70 pages worth. From after that-end story, it's only around 30. There's not much content at all. Moving Vincent to game 3, will even things out much much more. Plus, it'll give us at least 1 new character for the final game.

People aren't wanting to wait X amount of years to have the full experience of a mainline of FF with all of it's playable characters. Most want a full, holistic and immersive experience in one game. The sooner the better. The FFVII story should not feel staggered more than it needs to. Holding things back akin to artificial scarcity is crappy and it reflects poor management of the project.

The developers have already shown, that they don't mind making people wait though. I understand why they did what they did with Remake, but there's nothing stopping them from making people wait even longer for a character who was totally optional in the OG, anyway.

Also Vincent comes into the story far sooner especially since he's in Nibelheim. Wutai as a location can be visited as soon as obtaining Cid in the party member with the Tiny Bronco.

That doesn't mean things can't be changed in Rebirth though.

And I honestly don't think Wutai is going to be kept for the last part anyways. The developers just said it'd be "awhile" before we saw Wutai, which at the time, was over a year ago. That didn't mean it literally would be kept until the very end of the story.

That is a good way of looking at it as well. It doesn't actually matter when they do Wutai, to me. As long as it makes sense to the developers, I'm just here for the ride.

 

[LNK]

I think Vincent and Yuffie will both be Part 2 DLC

I'm sure Yuffie will be playable in Rebirth, so I'd be surprised if she was included in another DLC. Def Vincent if he's saved for game 3 though

 

[Makoeyes987]

There's only two games left.

So these games should have as much content as possible. Why would they aim not to? If that was too much to handle, then they shouldn't have bothered with the scope of the project. That's antithetical to the whole point of the Remake. The entire point of splitting it up was so each game could have as much content and be as full as possible, without sacrificing quality/quantity. That includes gameplay, and having a playable character artificially kept out of a game just so they can be back ended to the last entry and excluded from 2/3rds of the story they're meant to be part of would be garbage. We're in the heart of the main plot. Everyone needs to be part of it now, because this is their story.

They don't need room to breathe. This is a trilogy, and we're at the main core of the conflict now. This should be ambitious and at least the scope and scale of FFXV or larger. It'd be stupid to waste time and dilute the story or content now. They could do it, and it'd be shitty and dumb.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Kinda confuses and misrepresents the nature of Cloud's mental collapse.

Sephiroth broke him mentally through annihilating his sense of self and self esteem. Making him look like a fraud. That's not really leaving Cloud on a footing or capability to fight. Does no one even remember how Cloud left the party?

He apologizes to Tifa for being a fake and begging Hojo for a number. He's pathetic, small and weak. He thinks he's nothing and Sephiroth just absorbs him like that to obtain the Black Materia.

I don't understand how that translates into Cloud suddenly fighting. His purpose was to hand over the Black Materia and subsequently let himself die. So not sure why he'd be fighting anyone in such a state.

It literally kills the empathetic resonance and pity you're supposed to feel in seeing Cloud's world collapse around him and being reduced to nothing. I don't see what's added by fighting Cloud except just... fighting Cloud for lulz. And why would Zack be fighting him? That just seems like pure contrivance.

We’ve already seen Jenova’s influence making Cloud violent against his will, to me seems like a no-brainer for a fight at some point, doesn’t have to be the Northern Crater necessarily

 

[LNK]

The amount of content that goes from after Midgar to NC, is already more than what we got with Remake. Especially if things are expanded on. Its not like moving Vincent to game 3 would change that, since he was completely optional in the first place. Technically, he isnt meant to be part of the story anyway.

Introducing the whisper harbinger would be considered a shittier move, than changing an optional characters intro to a later point, imo.

 

[Wol]

Kinda confuses and misrepresents the nature of Cloud's mental collapse.

Sephiroth broke him mentally through annihilating his sense of self and self esteem. Making him look like a fraud. That's not really leaving Cloud on a footing or capability to fight. Does no one even remember how Cloud left the party?

He apologizes to Tifa for being a fake and begging Hojo for a number. He's pathetic, small and weak. He thinks he's nothing and Sephiroth just absorbs him like that to obtain the Black Materia.

I don't understand how that translates into Cloud suddenly fighting. His purpose was to hand over the Black Materia and subsequently let himself die. So not sure why he'd be fighting anyone in such a state.

It literally kills the empathetic resonance and pity you're supposed to feel in seeing Cloud's world collapse around him and being reduced to nothing. I don't see what's added by fighting Cloud except just... fighting Cloud for lulz. And why would Zack be fighting him? That just seems like pure contrivance.

And why would Zack suddenly be alive? Seems like pure contrivance. We don't know how this will develop, and they're already proved that. Fighting Cloud would be even easier to justify than reviving him in an alternate timeline because of a nuclear explosion caused by the elimination of ghosts lol

 

[Makoeyes987]

There's a HUGE difference between a fantasy-like origin of unknowable phenomena like time travel, versus making Cloud go rage murder mode and suddenly fight the player/his friends in a complete 180 of the narrative moment that's meant for you to pity Cloud and his sad state of identity. Those are apples and oranges.

Whatever Zack's reasons for existence, they are a magic/wizard/etc phenomenon meant to explore and flesh out the identity and loss angle of the story. Making Cloud's moment of vulnerability and shame an expression of violence totally misses the point and just severely distracts and detracts from what the emotional angle of his moment of weakness should be.

If there was a moment you'd actually fight Cloud (if they had to go such an angle) it'd be the Temple of the Ancients when he actually does get used that way by Sephiroth. That'd be the moment there would be some silly boss fight. It'd be a bit stupid but that'd make sense since Sephiroth's point there was to physically control Cloud that way.

 

[Roger]

Cloud says, "you were here with me. Five years ago"

And Cloud's never been to the Northern Crater.

It has to have been somewhere Cloud and Zack were 5 years ago during their escape from Shinra. So the Shinra Mansion all the way to the spot Zack died.

Their escape from Shinra is one year to 2 months ago. Cloud's mind might distort this but he definitely doesn't seem to think he has spent the last 5 years already in Midgar working as a Merc. 5 years ago refers to the mission to Nibelheim. Only real option.

 

[cold_spirit]

But her memory powers (at least visions of the future?) are now gone with the Whispers being gone, right?

The only place I've read that is here on this forum a few days ago with no source. So I'm going to say "nah". (Please show me otherwise, I love being wrong!)

On Vincent being pushed back to Part 3: Looking at the poll, about 80% of people think Rebirth will end at the Forgotten City or later. I'm also willing to bet that most people think Aerith will still die. If Vincent is pushed back to Part 3, and we go with what people think statistically, then Vincent and Aerith will never meet.

Yes, Vincent was optional in the original game, but he's also starred in his own game since then. He too popular to miss out on the big events now.

Besides, if Vincent and Aerith don't meet, then there's going to be some upset I Know What's Beneath the Snow Fields fans out there. Do you really think NKN would do that to us??

 

[waw]

I totally believe we'll get all the playable characters in Rebirth. So far I have no reason to think otherwise. Crowded cast? Yep! At most, someone like Vincent would be a "guest" character like Red, but if the game isn't ending in Nibelheim, I see less reason to do that. If someone is pushed back to Part 3, then we need DLC to flesh them out like Yuffie got. I'm still a bit surprised by the notion though.

I’m glad I’m not the only one with the idea for a boss fight against Cloud. I’ve also wondered about a fight between Cloud and Zack, like what are the chances of something like that happening and if so, who would we play as?

I fully expect to fight our Cloud at the Northern Crater. I expect Zack to seem like he's taking Cloud's place into the Part III. And once we get Cloud back, I think Second Cloud will be Jenova's servant and Jenova and Cloud eclipse Sephiroth as the villain in a classic FF escalation.

Bonkers!

 

[Smoothie King]

I’m going with my boy Max on this. He’s convinced me. I think the ending cinematic for Part 2 will be Tifa and Barret in Junon about to be executed.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah if you split one game into three and still can't manage a 9-person cast (and potentially 8), that'd be pretty sad.

 

[Roundhouse]

I used to laugh when people suggested the Northern Crater, but now that they have announced that there are only two parts left....and seeing how the teaser focused so much on fact and fiction/Cloud's memory issue, it really does feel like that would be the best stopping place. The problem being that there is a LOT to cover in P2 if that is the case, unless they are moving certain things to P3. Ending with Cloud in that lost, hopeless state, with the truth of his identity revealed (which in turn is the perfect chance for Zack to step in) is too fitting.

I do wish we could ban the constant references to ESB, it is already feeling overwhelming now, and will only increase I'm sure XD But I get why it's used, and it makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kitase had it in mind when he was talking about sequels.