The OG+the Compilation

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
@DutchDread
Sometimes fan translations are we all have, as with the Ultimania for the remake. In either case, though, they are perfectly fine. Welcome even.

There are plenty of occasions where the official localizations are a tad askew for one reason or another, or perhaps missed a nuance here or there. There's a ton of work that goes into the localization of an entire game or book, so some stuff is probably going to get missed or just misconstrued. It happens.

The issue with that "quotation" from Blank's post is that it is almost entirely fradulent, and this is something anyone as well-versed in the LTD these past ten years as someone who otherwise mines quotations like that should be aware of.
 

Pandemonium

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
Well, that's certainly firm but fair, I apologize for again getting swept up in it again as well but I have to say, it's REALLY difficult to try and maintain courtesy when someone is being this infuriating.
I agree! A few of us had this same discussion with BB, over a month ago. I don't remember if it was this thread, or the remake one. We said the same things you are now.

What's even more frustrating, is BB was asking the same exact questions, knowing that they already got the answers lol.

Just gotta stay polite, even if its hard. At the end of the day, at least you can say, you did the right thing
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Can I ask you for the source of that? Because I don't think I've ever heard that before.
Thanks to rkss

I don't remember where did I get this from but It's what Ryushikaze said
Barret was "Blow". Sephiroth in his early design looked like Vincent. Tifa was always there.

So Tifa was not a secondary creation. I particularly remember it because Clerith shipped it as "fact" (it never matters either way).
They were one character in the early state of development but if we go with the design, Tifa actually pre-dated Aerith lol.
Basically, way back when, there was a character named Tifa who had- we assume- bits of Aerith and Tifa's character traits. Then she got renamed and redesigned. Then the decision to kill off THAT proto-Aerith came about, and the Proto-Tifareth got split into two narrative entities, one becoming who we know as Tifa and one who we know as Aerith.

You can tell this is very early on because Barrett is still Bro and Sephiroth looks like Vincent. Also Reno and Rude have the other's names. And Proto-Rude has an eyepatch.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
the official guidance on translations is that only mine count and those are the only ones that can be used

sorry, i don't make the rules


more seriously it'd be helpful, if quotes are going to be used, to properly source them with as much detail as possible. like putting up a quote and just crediting it to 'square enix' is really not very useful. it doesn't have to be 'dengeki playstation, august 2007 issue, nomura and kitase interview, page 43, paragraph 6, line 2' but even 'interview with nomura from a 2007 issue of dengeki playstation' helps narrow down finding sources. especially since a lot of time these things get lost in transmission and are just passed around as giant prepared lists for people to throw at others and divorced from their original context.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
the official guidance on translations is that only mine count and those are the only ones that can be used

sorry, i don't make the rules


more seriously it'd be helpful, if quotes are going to be used, to properly source them with as much detail as possible. like putting up a quote and just crediting it to 'square enix' is really not very useful. it doesn't have to be 'dengeki playstation, august 2007 issue, nomura and kitase interview, page 43, paragraph 6, line 2' but even 'interview with nomura from a 2007 issue of dengeki playstation' helps narrow down finding sources. especially since a lot of time these things get lost in transmission and are just passed around as giant prepared lists for people to throw at others and divorced from their original context.
That's why I love our resources page. So many accurate page sourcings. Also, speaking of, out of so many quotes about Cloud and Tifa, people miss this one a lot, from the CC Keyword collections.

Cloud and Tifa

Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends, both born in Nibelheim. When Cloud leaves the village, he calls Tifa out to the water tower and promises that he will become a SOLDIER. At the same time, he is also made by Tifa to promise that he will come to rescue her if she is ever in trouble.

Following this, the pair experience many hardships, such as the Nibelheim incident which also appears in CC, and the Jenova War in FFVII, and through these the distance between them shortens. And in AC they live together, with Barret’s daughter Marlene and a boy named Denzel. Though there was also a period later where Cloud lived away from them after having contracted Geostigma, they finally reach a commune with each over and return to living together once again. In DC, they rush together to Vincent’s aid, in his battle against Deep Ground SOLDIER.
 

DutchDread

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Dutch Dread
Thanks to rkss



Basically, way back when, there was a character named Tifa who had- we assume- bits of Aerith and Tifa's character traits. Then she got renamed and redesigned. Then the decision to kill off THAT proto-Aerith came about, and the Proto-Tifareth got split into two narrative entities, one becoming who we know as Tifa and one who we know as Aerith.

You can tell this is very early on because Barrett is still Bro and Sephiroth looks like Vincent. Also Reno and Rude have the other's names. And Proto-Rude has an eyepatch.
Thanks, that's really interesting.


On a side note, I was just thinking, I am one of the people who absolutely loathed the ending of FFVII: Remake, and was wondering what SE could have done to make it easier to swallow. What I keep coming back to is the idea that I simply wanted to have some proper warning in advance that I wasn't really getting a remake as much as a sequel, and then I had an idea.

What if, in the build up to FFVII: Remake, they'd have released Crisis Core on the PC, BUT, secretly with the ending changed to the one we now see in Remake, just Zack and Cloud, walking off towards Midgar, with the words "The unknown journey will continue in FFVII: Remade", or something.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Actually, come to think of it, A LOT of BB's arguments are not only in bad faith, but contradicted by the sources we provide here at the Lifestream.

From Tifa's Profile, regarding her "complicated feelings"

Compilation Check

A close friend as well as rival?
The complicated emotions she feels towards Aerith.


「Both of them share feelings for Cloud 」 — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s.

Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in AC, two years after Aerith had departed the world. This was due to the fact that Cloud, succumbing to the notion that Aerith’s death was his fault and condemning himself, construed that Denzel was “the child which Aerith brought here” and took care of him. In addition, Cloud had also gone away to the church that Aerith had been in. The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith.

Now, the word jealous isn't in this segment. It's not anywhere in the profile. What is emphasized is CLOUD'S GUILT. You know, that thing what he deals with.
Now, mind, it does mention peevish feelings at Cloud and Aerith developing their own world in front of her, but it also mentions that Cherishing Aerith is her true feeling.
To sum up, Tifa is not described as Jealous of Aerith. Not in so many words. But Aerith, in Maiden who travels the planet, is explicitly jealous, or more accurately, envious, of Tifa getting to live together with Cloud.

We also get this, in re: Childhood friend
"I want to see Cloud — Marlene’s honest words, which reflected what Tifa felt in her own heart, caused her to smile. The present Tifa isn’t just Cloud’s childhood friend, but also the mother of the ‘family’ they were forming in Edge. "

Not just the childhood friend, and "of the family they were forming" the bit about family they formed is not unique to that profile. It's in the reunion files, too.

Anyways, in her CC profile, we get this description.

The only woman who knows Cloud’s past.

In FF7, Tifa is the only one who knows Cloud’s childhood, and furthermore, she holds the key to people involved in the story of Nibelheim’s burning down, which is also depicted in CC. She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.

"They realize their feelings for each other, and live together in AC and DC" is pretty blatant. Especially given it's for a game in which she's a side character in a single chapter.


Lastly, about the original ending of AC. Cloud is driving home to spend a day with Tifa and the Kids. We know that from the making of movie. Aerith is watching over him, but he's not searching for her and she's not hoping to meet him. She's just there to make sure he's fine.
 

Edley

Pray for Sound
AKA
Issac Dian, Dudley, Chev Chelios
Basically, way back when, there was a character named Tifa who had- we assume- bits of Aerith and Tifa's character traits. Then she got renamed and redesigned. Then the decision to kill off THAT proto-Aerith came about, and the Proto-Tifareth got split into two narrative entities, one becoming who we know as Tifa and one who we know as Aerith.
Tifa and Aerith are meta soul mates.:desu:

Ah man, I miss all the good stuff.

You just need to pay attention to the interactions Cloud and Aerith's interactions in the film. The star crossed lovers/love beyond death trope isn't coded at all. This is not a man begging for forgiveness from his one true love. Aerith is not letting Cloud go or forgiving him because she doesn't need to give Cloud closure or forgive him. Cloud has to move on and forgive himself. She tells him that all that matters is that he came, i.e. what's important is that he didn't give up. Then after Cloud "dies" she heals him, kicks him out of purgatory while calling him a child too big to adopt and leaves him to live his life with a smile on his face.

There's no one true love beyond death or here's the closure to our romance so you can move on with my blessing a la other films about sinking ships that have nothing to do with FFVII.

Then look at the rest of the compilation and count the moments where the story hints at C/A. Good luck. Now look at all the nods to C/T in BC, CC, and DC. At some point you gotta play the damn games.
 

DutchDread

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Dutch Dread
everything about Elmyra severely depresses me.

first her husband dies, but at least she has a daughter to give her some solace.

but then she dies too.

thinking about parents losing children makes me way too sad :sadpanda:
I always wonder how old she is, and if she wouldn't happen to be a good fit to raise Marlene with Barret, but from what I see in the remake she looks quite a bit older XD.
 

Shadowfox

You look like you need a monkey
I always wonder how old she is, and if she wouldn't happen to be a good fit to raise Marlene with Barret, but from what I see in the remake she looks quite a bit older XD.
I'm sure Barret prefers mature women too. (Coincidentally, Barret/Elmyra happens to be one of my crack ships, partly because I think Aerith would find it hilarious to have Barret as her stepdad.)
 
These flower fields are stated to be the place Cloud is "supposed to be."

Soulmates are soulmates. Tifa just can't compete with star-crossed lovers who are tied together through destiny.
I know this conversation is pretty much over, but where is it stated that Cloud is "supposed to be" in the flower field with Aerith? Also, doesn't Aerith outright say in ACC that Cloud DOESN'T belong there? Also, regarding "soulmates":
 

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DutchDread

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Dutch Dread
I know this conversation is pretty much over, but where is it stated that Cloud is "supposed to be" in the flower field? Also, regarding "soulmates":
Nowhere, it was an absurd misrepresentation of a few lines that are supposed to indicate that Cloud DOES NOT belong in the flower field, but belongs in the world of the living, it's not even ambiguous.

The place where he awakens —
That is Cloud’s Promised Land

As he sleeps, Cloud hears two voices. The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn’t belong here yet.

When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma — his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realizes where he is meant to live. He realizes that he was able to forgive himself.

And when he turns around — “she” is starting to leave. Together with the friend who had given Cloud his life. Cloud no longer has to suffer in loneliness …

And so they too go back to where they belong.

Back to the current of life flowing around the planet —.10th AU.
You see, the text says that Cloud belongs in the world of the living, with his family, and there is more accompanying text showing that that's what Cloud does. But BB, for some reason, pretends it's saying the exact opposite, that because while unconscious, he's in the flower field, that that's the place that he belongs, despite it clearly mentioning him awakening in the real world, with his family. And even though it clearly contrasts it to "they", who DO belong there.

He's also claimed that it was a reference to belonging with Aerith because he, get this, "wakes up in the church".

I know we are supposed to argue in good faith here, and apply the charity principle, but honestly, I just can't here, I am physically unable to believe that anyone could genuinely interpret those lines as such.
 
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