The Winner of Our Discontent — 2016 U.S. Election Results Discussion
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
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Random Nobody
local roach
Okay, but seriously, though.
The Clintons expanded the carceral state and militarised law enforcement, and Bush perfected the miltary-industrial model for endless war, torture, and indefinite detainment without trial. Obama instituted detention centres for migrants and asylum seekers, militarised the border, configured the infrastructure for mass surveillance, deportations, and extrajudicial assassinations (including of US citizens).
The technocratic framework for it is already there, and there's already US historical precedent for it...but if proscription is on its way.
The Clintons expanded the carceral state and militarised law enforcement, and Bush perfected the miltary-industrial model for endless war, torture, and indefinite detainment without trial. Obama instituted detention centres for migrants and asylum seekers, militarised the border, configured the infrastructure for mass surveillance, deportations, and extrajudicial assassinations (including of US citizens).
The technocratic framework for it is already there, and there's already US historical precedent for it...but if proscription is on its way.
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- hitoshura
oh hey who said that
oh it's the guy who was whining about rigged elections up until tuesday but now everyone has to accept and get behind, talking about what people should do because 'the electoral college gave obama the election but romney got the popular vote'
i mean, clinton got the popular vote by a tiny margin but i guess people should just put up and shut up and start respecting the next president
like people did with obama, when they spent years claiming he was a kenyan muslim who shouldn't be president and was being disrespectful for saluting with a cup of coffee
he should have just grabbed a pussy and called all the generals losers like a proper president
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- hitoshura
^ the sweet irony was not lost on me, but i didn't have the numbers to confirm and cba searching any more today
like comparing refugees to 100 skittles with 3 that contain poison, when the other 97 skittles are actually human beings (more in danger of being killed by isis than someone in middle america) and the number of 'poisoned' ones is more like 3 in hundreds of thousands
(the cato institute, which i'd hardly think of as a hive of leftist machinations, estimated the chances of being killed in a terrorist attack by a refugee at 1 in 3.64 billion. for all those illegal immigrants killing people, they gave that odds of 1 in 10.9 billion.)
or that refugees are just allowed to waltz into america super quick without scrutiny when the process to get approved (and not every case gets through) takes around 2 years and numerous check
or claiming voter fraud (and the main suspects being racial minority voters) is rampant when it's like 35 cases out of over 800 million general election votes
views like this are based on a racist suspicion of people who aren't white, and drove a lot of campaign rhetoric if not votes as well.
of course the answer is to try and change the attitudes behind those views, and that goes beyond just merely making people self-conscious about using slurs in public. but that requires the people who hold those attitudes to be open to changing. not just. people not calling those with racist views 'racist'?
idk it just feels rich that this argument seems to boil down to don't call people who are 'sick of political correction and professional offense-takers and people being too sensitive, muh feelings waaah safe spaces waaaah' bigots for having bigoted attitudes, because being called a bigot apparently offends them and hurts their feelings?
i mean, i wasn't disputing that or suggesting that the answer to societal change lies in simply branding people racist/sexist/etc. and leave it there. i get these are also voters, the problem being if their vote is influenced by bigoted views that aren't based in reality
like comparing refugees to 100 skittles with 3 that contain poison, when the other 97 skittles are actually human beings (more in danger of being killed by isis than someone in middle america) and the number of 'poisoned' ones is more like 3 in hundreds of thousands
(the cato institute, which i'd hardly think of as a hive of leftist machinations, estimated the chances of being killed in a terrorist attack by a refugee at 1 in 3.64 billion. for all those illegal immigrants killing people, they gave that odds of 1 in 10.9 billion.)
or that refugees are just allowed to waltz into america super quick without scrutiny when the process to get approved (and not every case gets through) takes around 2 years and numerous check
or claiming voter fraud (and the main suspects being racial minority voters) is rampant when it's like 35 cases out of over 800 million general election votes
views like this are based on a racist suspicion of people who aren't white, and drove a lot of campaign rhetoric if not votes as well.
of course the answer is to try and change the attitudes behind those views, and that goes beyond just merely making people self-conscious about using slurs in public. but that requires the people who hold those attitudes to be open to changing. not just. people not calling those with racist views 'racist'?
idk it just feels rich that this argument seems to boil down to don't call people who are 'sick of political correction and professional offense-takers and people being too sensitive, muh feelings waaah safe spaces waaaah' bigots for having bigoted attitudes, because being called a bigot apparently offends them and hurts their feelings?
Kai Schulen
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- Trainer Red
Which is it, Dumptruck, which is it?
Also, I'm deeply amused because I recall that Texas wanted to leave the US after 2012 cause of Obama, much like how California wants to leave the US cause of Trump.
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- Yop
TL;DR whatever a politician says is bullshit. There's always an agenda. You're st00pit if you ever take anything they say seriously. I want to believe the twitter shit is Trump's own words, but honestly, no politician writes (or should write) their own shit online.
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- hitoshura
what does he mean by 'open' there?
i mean, i guess he won't be risking exposing secret. just look at how elusive his tax returns have been. hillary should have had trump's accountant handle her emails
i mean, i guess he won't be risking exposing secret. just look at how elusive his tax returns have been. hillary should have had trump's accountant handle her emails
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- Chloe Frazer
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- hitoshura
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/u...s-now-theyre-on-his-transition-team.html?_r=0
his first act to 'drain the swamp' of corruption and the influence of special interest money and donors in government has been to select a bunch of lobbyists (in charge of picking names for the fields they lobbied in) and campaign donors and long time politicians who supported him oh and his kids in his transition team too for good measure
promising start, doesn't sound like the influence of money or cronyism or the same-old-same-old at all 👌👌👌
his first act to 'drain the swamp' of corruption and the influence of special interest money and donors in government has been to select a bunch of lobbyists (in charge of picking names for the fields they lobbied in) and campaign donors and long time politicians who supported him oh and his kids in his transition team too for good measure
promising start, doesn't sound like the influence of money or cronyism or the same-old-same-old at all 👌👌👌
tangerine
B ● A ● N ● A ● N ● A
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- Val
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- Chloe Frazer
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- Ruby Rose, Lucy
Waitaminit...
If he re-negotiates the NAFTA agreement and/or wants to withdraw (which we would highly benefit from, so please go ahead) - in what planet would the Keystone Pipeline still move forward?
..also, I'm still only on pg 19 of reading through the whole thread but I didn't want to lose track of that
Also, on that same article as noted by Jason but not pointed out, other "first day things" he will do include
That's what makes the election sad. And that it is a white man country that people are perpetrating. He's going to deport everyone of colour that wasn't born there. He's going to prevent people from ever going back. He's going to rob women of their right to their own bodies, by making abortions either illegal or punishable. He's going to (confirmed? still reading) reverse LGBTQ rights. Like, I get why people are saying "oh, it was a white man's race and now it's a white man's country" ... because it is, because of these things he wants to do to everyone else. And that's what makes America sad now.
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- hitoshura
you know like how an upside down crucifix is associated with the antichrist
now trump holding a rainbow flag upside down makes sense
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- Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Uhm... to be fair it's only the illegals who shouldn't be here anyway.
Also, do we know FOR SURE he's going to reverse gay rights and abortion? All I've seen so far is speculation and I'm trying not to freak out about it unless I hear it from him. And I don't mean "I'll consider it" cause he said that a lot, I mean a "Yes I'm going to reverse it."
Random Nobody
local roach
I mean, Kris Kobach--the man who was responsible for SB1070 (so also indirectly responsible for empowering Arpaio's antics over half a decade) and speaks at white supremacist rallies--is also part of the transition team. Fuckin'...Broken Windows Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, Jan Brewer, Sarah Palin, Gangrene?
Where's that Amr Adeeb clip, because that's me right now.
Random Nobody
local roach
Undocumented people*
And I really don't think Americans understand how difficult it is to gain citizenship in this country, or even enter as a refugee. These kind of policies don't just affect "illegal" bogeyman; we're talking about people who were raised all their lives here under DACA, Dreamers, citizen minors who lose their parents and are absorbed as wards of state, refugees and asylum seekers--many children--fleeing economic collapse and imminent death/physical violence precipitated by the US's very own foreign policies, et al. And under legislation like 1070 and HB 56, it doesn't matter whether you're a citizen or aren't. You can be stopped and jailed for "reasonable suspicion" of "foreignness" and held without release until you can prove your immigration status pursuant to Title 8. Speaking from experience here.
And this country can't survive (or rather, chooses not to survive) without exploiting the undocumented, so again...it's not even realistic.
ETA:
Lmaooooooooooo. Someone captioned this "Arabs when Donald Trump is elected president" and I'm dying.
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- Ruby Rose, Lucy
The reversing gay rights part, I'm not sure, but he feels very strongly on abortion. During one interview clip, he said that women who have abortions should be punished, and during the last debate, he was asked if he would reverse Roe v Wade and he refused to provide a straight answer other than "there are going to be some changes" to who he added to the supreme court.
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- TresDias
Let's keep it respectful -- or at least civil if genuine respect can't be managed -- in here, please and thanks.
For that matter, a basic consideration of anything about Que's personality and values would tell you that she is well aware of her good fortune in where she was born and that she doesn't deserve that kind of response. It's not like she would consider a refugee fleeing violence the same as she would someone who didn't have a dire, immediate need to immigrate.
And really, what exactly is the opposing position to what she said? Illegal immigration is, by definition, illegal. It's there in the name for a reason. Now, you can get into the whys and wherefores of all that and find good reasons for it to happen (e.g. refugees often don't know they can apply for refugee status) -- but you can also be sure that if I overstayed my welcome in Canada just because I decided I preferred living in a country where poutine is available everywhere, I'd not be shown the same consideration as a refugee. Nor should I be.
For that matter, a basic consideration of anything about Que's personality and values would tell you that she is well aware of her good fortune in where she was born and that she doesn't deserve that kind of response. It's not like she would consider a refugee fleeing violence the same as she would someone who didn't have a dire, immediate need to immigrate.
And really, what exactly is the opposing position to what she said? Illegal immigration is, by definition, illegal. It's there in the name for a reason. Now, you can get into the whys and wherefores of all that and find good reasons for it to happen (e.g. refugees often don't know they can apply for refugee status) -- but you can also be sure that if I overstayed my welcome in Canada just because I decided I preferred living in a country where poutine is available everywhere, I'd not be shown the same consideration as a refugee. Nor should I be.
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