The Winner of Our Discontent — 2016 U.S. Election Results Discussion

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CK

buried but breathing
AKA
CK, 2D, wanker
eh fair call I'll play nice. It just seems to me when Americans refer to 'illegals' it's anyone from mexico and I'm sorry the shit that is going on there is valid enough reason to want to be anywhere else. And I wouldn't want to sit there and wait for the legal immigration process either. I'm pretty damn sure these people have a much more valid reason for being in the US than the cuisine as well. I'm sure you could have used a less ridiculous example than that come on.

Being someone not from the US what reasons do you believe warrants them to be removed for being there illegally? What to you Americans is not a valid reason to be in your country? Apart from being there illegally of course.
 
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Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
There's a tiny part of me that is starting to think that Trump doesn't believe half of the shit he said during the campaign and only said it to get elected.

I remember Trump for my entire life before this/last year; he's always been pretty liberal; not entirely so, but a lot of the shit he's been saying has been pretty new. I'm not excusing him in any way, and I didn't vote for him and wouldn't again, but...this shit is wild and I'm beginning to think nothing is clear cut.
 

Ghost X

Moderator
I think there's no doubt he swindled his voters in some way. The question is in what way / how much. That's why I think his choice of cabinet will kind of reveal the direction he wishes to take things, but as I've pointed out, the names don't look good.
 

Random Nobody

local roach
I don't think his bigotry is an "act" (and it wouldn't matter if it were), though I'm sure he would say anything for the immediate gratification of being cheered on by large crowds. He's foremost a narcissist, so whilst the conviction may be there, he lacks the evangelical commitment (and incentive--until now) to go out and see those ideologies materialised.
 

Ghost X

Moderator
The Democratic establishment so far making all the wrong moves. Blaming everyone else but themselves, and throwing around establishment names as the future of the party. Progressives must stomp that shit out permanently. Get politically active in the USA if you already aren't (if so, y'all awfully private about such endeavors).
 
Reading that... I thought about V For Vendetta's Valerie story. Not because I think that it would happen, but, mainly because a review for the movie a few years ago thought that the segment, while beautiful, didn't hold up well in a cautionary sense. With the amount of progress being made, and in general the overall feelings towards LGBT people, they felt that it was an out of date story, not as relevant going forward.
Now, I don't feel like it would get nearly that bad, rounding people up or anything, but I just find it astonishing, and sad, that such a huge backtrack could happen like that. Especially in today's world with the changes that have happened in recent years.
 

Ghost X

Moderator
The permanence of progress is never guaranteed, although the development of civilisation may lean toward it. However, it only takes a fuck up -- possibly like this one -- to send us back decades. Ben Carson possibly in charge of education? That's gonna leave a mark.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Being someone not from the US what reasons do you believe warrants them to be removed for being there illegally? What to you Americans is not a valid reason to be in your country? Apart from being there illegally of course.

Oh I'm not even saying I agree with his decision or anything but there are people who are here legally who are (if facebook is to be believed anyway) really freaking out right now. And i mean the post I replied to DID say "EVERY person of color who wasn't born there" so... yeah it's not everyone. As for my post... okay sure there are reasons to come here, like you're fleeing from something but... yeah it's cause they're here illegally. I don't know what the process is to become a citizen here, but I guess I just feel they should try that instead because sooner or later it's going to catch up to them. A lot of them don't pay taxes so we end up having to pay for them to stay here, and there's a lot of people who are homeless who are here legally, and need jobs and just... things like that. I didn't really give my thought much comment beyond that


EDIT
also is anyone else finding these Biden memes hilarious?


EDIT II

To go further into the illegal immigrant thing... it's hard to discuss cause it will eventually come down to, "So you think ALL illegal immigrants shouldn't be here?"... and no that's not true, I don't necessarily think that, but the other side will go, "So you think EVERYONE should be allowed to enter America at will?" and I'm sure no one thinks that either. I don't think they should all be here, but I also understand that in some circumstances, they had no other choice.
 
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JechtShotMK9

The Sublimely Magnificent One
AKA
Kamiccolo9
Well, with wacko nutjob, Ben "pyramids are for grain storage,""AP US History makes people wanna join Isis," Carson in charge of education, the next few years are gonna be fun.
 

Blade

That Man
AKA
Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
My thoughts are these:

--Ask yourself (do the research), what power does the American President have that Congress and the Supreme Court can say 'No' to.

--Impeachment requires Criminal charges (usually while in-office). Study the History of how the system actually works.

--The President isn't the only person with an Agenda. Learn who his major supporters were and what they're REALLY about. Learn what the party line is going to do with Trump in office as their storefront 'face'.
 

Ghost X

Moderator
@Carlie: He's a religious nutter, like Palin. Evolution and climate change are of the devil, etc. You got John "Don't call me a Neocon" Bolton, Rudy "Nation-wide stop and frisk" Giuliani, Newt "Lets put minors to work" Gingrich, and a cast of other equally disastrous possible choices.
 

Random Nobody

local roach
Oh I'm not even saying I agree with his decision or anything but there are people who are here legally who are (if facebook is to be believed anyway) really freaking out right now.
He did say that he would challenge the 14th Amendment, whether he actually has any intention of doing so or doesn't. In other words, he'd also retroactively revoke the status of birthright citizens and deport them to nations most of them have never set foot in. So no...not even citizens are guaranteed "safety" (such as it is). Additionally, even if a person is a legal citizen, it doesn't mean all their friends and family are. And even if all their friends and family are documented non-citizens, this climate of racism and xenophobia further impedes the path to citizenship...which is already costly emotionally, psychologically, physically, and financially. You are already at the whims of bureaucrats who may or may not particularly like you and people like you. It's another to be at the whims of people who most definitely hate you.

I don't know what the process is to become a citizen here, but I guess I just feel they should try that instead because sooner or later it's going to catch up to them.
Definitely easier said than done...especially if you don't know.

A lot of them don't pay taxes so we end up having to pay for them to stay here
I don't know about that. It's more or less impossible to live in the United States without paying some sort of tax. In most cases, even if you do not file a return, you still have taxes deducted from your wage. Then there's millage and the ever-ubiquitous sales and excise. So all told, undocumented immigrants are paying taxes in excess of several billions per annum, regardless of how you want to manipulate the calculations. Regardless, even if all the undocumented paid $0.00 a year, I think it's fair to say it's a form of pretty pointless misdirection championed by rich bigots like, say, Donald Trump, who, along with massive corporations, are serial tax dodgers (for decades) and have a far larger impact on the US government's revenues.

I just don't think it's too useful to lay any kind of blame at the feet of people who are also getting their teeth kicked in by rich Americans while trying to make it. Like...I'd rather see containment of all these Cirque du Soleil-ass loophole jumping hoes before I have to see ICE rounding up and tearing apart families simply because they're poor and desperate.

and there's a lot of people who are homeless who are here legally, and need jobs and just... things like that.
...But these two things are entirely unrelated causally, so it's dangerous to conflate them. Immigrants and refugees (documented or otherwise) are not responsible for the crises/criminalisation of poverty and homelessness in the States or anywhere else. Speaking in purely material terms, there are more than enough empty houses in the States to shelter every single dispossessed person, more than enough capital for everyone to receive a wage, and more than enough food and water for them to live comfortably.

Even if you want to add the artificial restrictions of our economic system, the only reason that the US has such a horrifying population of destitute is because it (collectively) wants to. It would not be difficult to legislate the lion's share of that out of existence. But then you have a (very racialised) mythology of laziness and parasitism surrounding the indigent, and the very same rich politicians and tax dodgers making huge amounts of money through predators like CCA and GeoGroup, who prey on people using garbage policies like the "war on drugs" and the lack of any infrastructure for the treatment of mental illness.

By contrast...migrants/undocumented immigrants, in large part, labour in miserable circumstances for jobs that nobody wants because the pay is absurd/illegal and the conditions intolerable (and often straight up inhumane). Employers (again...like Donald Trump) who hire these people do so because they know they can turn a far greater profit than if they were paying someone with any recourse. What are they going to do? Report them to the authorities? I mean, immigration status makes the undocumented (especially women and children) vulnerable not just to economic violence, but to interpersonal violence as well. Contacting the police in cases of rapes, trafficking, assault, robbery, domestic abuse, and et cetera often end with deportation proceedings, because you can be flagged (documented/citizen or not) for just having an accent and/or requesting an interpreter. So people don't have access to any sort of help even in imminent danger, talk less of facing down contractual renegement.

And that's if you find work under someone who pays you at all (granted, only when and how much they feel like it). Oftentimes, if an independent contract is negotiated, after the job is complete, clients simply use their hiree's status as a way to escape fees (note that you can be living legally in the country but be unauthorised to work). Por ejemplo...the same shit happened to one of my uncles (though given, this was in London) when he was working in home renovation. He spent six months rebuilding half a woman's house, then after he finished and asked for the agreed-upon payment, she called immigration on him and he was deported.

So these are not the kind of work "opportunities" that anyone would find reasonable. And certainly not anyone with any kind of legal protections.

And all this is before even touching the thousands and thousands of people trafficked into the country for sex slavery/the sex industry, and what happens to them if they're fortunate enough to escape.

So again, [Amr Adeeb voice] NAHNU FE KARBIN AZIM.
 

Carlie

CltrAltDelicious
AKA
Chloe Frazer
@Carlie: He's a religious nutter, like Palin. Evolution and climate change are of the devil, etc. You got John "Don't call me a Neocon" Bolton, Rudy "Nation-wide stop and frisk" Giuliani, Newt "Lets put minors to work" Gingrich, and a cast of other equally disastrous possible choices.

I know, in his rebuttal to Hillary's deplorable comment he said essentially that he wasn't homophobic he just didn't think gay people should have the right to marry. While conveniently ignoring his transgender people are ridiculous human beings comment.
 

Ghost X

Moderator
If he violently cracks down on critical press and dissenting groups, watch out. If US folks here have the money to spare, subscribe to independent media, and donate to organisations that keep government accountable. Of all times, this is the time to do it.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Well on the somewhat plus side:

Trump tells supporters committing violence: ‘Stop it’


Did Hitler do that too? I'm asking cause I honestly don't know. If he did, holy shit :monster:


Oh and some of the really GOOD news from here:

Trump said he's "fine" with same-sex marriage remaining legal across the country, and wouldn't appoint Supreme Court judges with the goal of reversing that ruling.

He says abortion might go back to the states decision so I'm hoping most of them just keep it. But at least for now, same sex marriage is safe. I hope he keeps that promise. ^_^
 
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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
okay I'm not sure if I'm supposed to keep posting in this thread or the other but.. I'll post it here for now:


Obama Is Planning to Give Trump Some Extra Tutoring

During their private White House meeting on Thursday, Mr. Obama walked his successor through the duties of running the country, and Mr. Trump seemed surprised by the scope, said people familiar with the meeting. Trump aides were described by those people as unaware that the entire presidential staff working in the West Wing had to be replaced at the end of Mr. Obama’s term.

and from another article:
After meeting with Mr. Trump, the only person to be elected president without having held a government or military position, Mr. Obama realized the Republican needs more guidance. He plans to spend more time with his successor than presidents typically do, people familiar with the matter said.


and THIS is why I like Obama so much. As others have said, you can tell he really cares about this country. I mean he's even helping TRUMP, the guy who said he was from ISIS and Kenya among other things. That's a really mature thing to do and really shows who's the better person in this scenario. Hopefully it all goes smoothly.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Trump aides were described by those people as unaware that the entire presidential staff working in the West Wing had to be replaced at the end of Mr. Obama’s term.

Jesus cocksucking Christ. How did they not know this?

But why am I even surprised.
 

Kionae

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Desha
Well.. Paul Ryan's already salivating over what having a Republican-controlled government means...

Ryan Plans to Phase Out Medicare in 2017

Like the article points out... there are going to be a lot of Trump supporters who aren't happy with that. They love their entitlement programs (Medicare, Social Security, etc.) even if they refuse to call them that.
 

Ghost X

Moderator
If you look at what far-right commentators are saying, they're already preparing their audiences for the inevitable recession. The scapegoat will be, among other things, globalist forces. If Trump uses the same rhetoric, watch out :p.
 
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