Trace of Two Pasts novel discussion

[Shademp]

It must have used up one life when Cloud rescued it, another life in BC, and six more surviving the inferno of Nibelheim.

And Mal would have been struck down by Sephiroth, had Sephiroth not recognized the cat as his own kin. *hint hint: Sephiroth's special cat eyes*

I imagine the encounter between Mal, the obvious embodiment of Malice, and Sephiroth went something like this:

MAL, WHO TOLD YOU YOU CAN FLY

 

[waw]

For those reading it, I've decided to post this really screwed up question. I'll provide a bit of context first.

The doctors that worked on Tifa seem to be connected to Zangan (the elder being a former? student). They reconstructed Tifa, including using metal on her bones to fix the wound from Sephiroth. They then do a skin graff to make sure there's no scarring. (If I understand this right).

They then took a photo of her (during operatio or slightly after?) as well as stole her money. They show this picture to Marle, which angers her and bonds Marle to Tifa.

I don't understand what this photo was, exactly, and why it's so problematic. If it's just a photo of a girl in operation, on one hand, they're showing their work? That makes it maybe less sexualized and more morbid. But it seems to be of a sexual nature, i.e. her exposed breasts. With the metal reconstruction going on and rebuilding Tifa's body, does the text hint that they gave her breast augmentation and were showing that off? Is that what's going on? That seems to be what's going on, but I can't really tell.

Square hasn't been shy about focusing on Tifa's bosom at various times in the past, but there's some... uh... awareness that this is problematic? Is this their attempt at taking an out?

Lastly, I wonder how much of these doctors connected to Zangan and had Tifa in their debt would have shown up in the cut Tifa chapter from Remake.....

 

[Makoeyes987]

What makes it a problem is you're not supposed to take pictures of your patients while they're under anesthetic, unable to consent and especially when they're under the knife.

Especially if you're taking pictures of their boobies.

That's pure non-consenting pornography. Nevermind the inappropriateness of photographing an operating patient, but to take lurid photos of their exposed breasts? That's fucked up.

I always have said that FFVII shows us a fantasy world where medical and biological science developed without any ethical framework whatsoever. Everyone's basically a fucking mad or twisted scientist. No wonder something like the Jenova Project could be approved and Hojo could be considered the greatest mind behind Shinra's science department

It's a cyberpunk dystopia devoid of medical ethics. You don't ever photograph a woman's chest while she's sleeping, I don't care what letters you have after your name, lol.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I find the picture thing a little weird as I can't imagine people would buy "sexy" photos of a girl who'd had her chest sliced open by a giant sword and then just been repaired with a steel wire cage and hundreds of stiches. It would be like an illustration from a medical manual. Bruised, bloody, scarred and swollen. But there's no accounting for taste.

I didn't get the impression they'd made her boobs bigger. The poor kid is only, what, fifteen? Sixteen?

 

[Makoeyes987]

I find the picture thing a little weird as I can't imagine people would buy "sexy" photos of a girl who'd had her chest sliced open by a giant sword and then just been repaired with a steel wire cage and hundreds of stiches. It would be like an illustration from a medical manual. Bruised, bloody, scarred and swollen. But there's no accounting for taste.

I guess you aren't familiar with guro?

 

[minami758]

From my interpretation, I think it's a more general invasion of patient privacy. I don't think we have a straight word-for-word translation of that section yet, just snippets, but what I got from it was that Marle was angry that Tifa

1. had to go through that operation at all/see how fucked up her body was and
2. that the doctors who worked on her both took photos of Tifa's operation (especially on such a private area) without her written consent and were willing to show off their work so brazenly to other potential patients.

I don't think they gave her a breast augmentation or anything, just that they did the operation but also invaded patient-doctor confidentiality.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Mako but yeah same thought process!

 

[Obsidian Fire]

There's an entire trope called "Gorn" for a reason and a fair amount of anime/manga have no problem with it...

 

[Humming]

Taking the pictures with sexual purposes or not, it's still a vulneration of Tifa's intimacy, so it's understandable why Marle would get turbo mad. It's not a before/after hair transplant, it's a wound that covers most of her chest zone and taking a picture in order to show how bad it was and how good it healed it's still repulsive without the pacient's consent.

While these kind of pictures may be educational and extremely important for enriching future doctors, it can also serve a more selfish purpose of self promoting. There's also the ethical theme of treating a patient like a problem to solve, a case, or treating him/her like a human being.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

This probably isn't the place to get into the question of whether it is more or less ethical for a doctor to treat a patient as a case to be cured or like "a human being" (whatever that means in this instance. You wouldn't want your doctor treating you like a friend or even a work colleague or getting all involved in your life. The brain surgeon who removed my tumour had zero interest in me as a person. All he cared about was the lump of cells growing where they shouldn't be. When I went to his office to thank him afterwards, he couldn't look me in the eye or get me out of there fast enough. But he was brilliant; he saved my life, my eyesight, and my brain function. I'll settle for that. I don't need empathy as well.)

I think we all agree the doctors were scumbags to take photos of her chest without her consent. Happily I don't know what goro is, nor do I ever wish to. Nojima is doing a great job of making the slums sound like a scary place to live.

 

[Eerie]

Wait up was the photography thing confirmed or not? I only saw it once so I’m not sure.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

They also charged her double and forced her into debt slavery seling buns and living in a shipping container.
Zangan really should have hung around a bit longer or at least come back to check she was okay. But maybe he couldn't.

 

[waw]

What makes it a problem is you're not supposed to take pictures of your patients while they're under anesthetic, unable to consent and especially when they're under the knife.

Especially if you're taking pictures of their boobies.

I don't disagree and hope my post doesn't come off that way. Rather, I'm curious what the doctors' intentions were. Was it sexual for them? Were they trying to show off their work? Do they blackmail her with this? It's just so random and strikes me as an incomplete thought.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

This guy Stan is translating Aerith's section. I'm really excited to finally learn the details of how they escaped from the Shinra Building.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416842099505258497

 

[Shademp]

Trace of Two Pasts might become the first piece of FF7 literature that I buy with a genuine excitement for the story.

On the Way to a Smile was alright but I've mostly ever been interested in it for lore- and version analysis. There are some gold nuggets of character moments in there but most of the contents make me go "meh".

The Kids Are Alright is unable to pull me in. I've only ever read summaries and a few chapters, but all along the way my mind keeps asking "Why does this book exist?" and "Why should I be invested?". It just doesn't work for me, despite what it adds to the lore.

The hype I now feel for Trace of Two Pasts far exceeds anything I've felt for the two previous novels. Hurry along with the official translation, Square. My wallet is waiting.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I don't disagree and hope my post doesn't come off that way. Rather, I'm curious what the doctors' intentions were. Was it sexual for them? Were they trying to show off their work? Do they blackmail her with this? It's just so random and strikes me as an incomplete thought.

More than likely sexual perversion. Voyeurism. Maybe a twisted sense of pride in their work too, but given the context I'm positive there was a sexual component.

I mean, this happens in real life. Doctors have been jailed and lost their license for sexually molesting, assaulting and taking photos of their patients while anaesthetized.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I doubt anybody needs a licence to practice medicine in Shinra's Midgar.

 

[Shademp]

"Doctors" in Midgar don't have a license, they just practice their lie-sense.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I mean, we knew what Midgar doctors were like in "The Kids Are Alright."

One doctor literally lied about Evan needing future surgery to save his life, leading his mother to desperately save up gil for it and risk her life just.. for lolz. "Shady" doesn't even begin to describe them. I'd rather trust a Turk than some random doc from the undercity.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I thought the one Aerith trafficked drugs for in Sector 5 was a decent bloke, but apparently there's some problem with him too. I can't remember what. He spies on her?
No wonder there's such a lively trade in potions and healing materia.

 

[minami758]

I think this is from the new Ultimania but I think it fits in better with the discussion here with the new info about the beginnings of Jessie and Tifa's friendship from ToTP:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416853258308444160

It would've been nice to get more insight like this into Jessie and Tifa's friendship in the actual game SE...

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

This is just an aside, but do people really react in such exaggerated ways? I've seen tweets of people claiming to be crying, sobbing, shaking, hearts breaking.... Is this a manner of speaking, or are they really swooning and having the vapours? It seems so over the top.

 

[Odysseus]

This is just an aside, but do people really react in such exaggerated ways? I've seen tweets of people claiming to be crying, sobbing, shaking, hearts breaking.... Is this a manner of speaking, or are they really swooning and having the vapours? It seems so over the top.

Generally people are just exaggerating. Some do actually do those things though.

Also, I can no longer remember Jessie's actual last words lol.

 

[Makoeyes987]

This is just an aside, but do people really react in such exaggerated ways? I've seen tweets of people claiming to be crying, sobbing, shaking, hearts breaking.... Is this a manner of speaking, or are they really swooning and having the vapours? It seems so over the top.

Some people are just that emotional. I sometimes marvel at it too but some people's emotional weak points are bigger than others.

Jessie's death scene didn't make me cry nor did this info but I felt it. Like, you can have emotional reaction and feel it without being moved to literal crying. Some people have that stoicism and some just let it all out

 

[Shademp]

Sometimes I am frustrated with my own lack of emotional response to scenes and trailers. To get my fill of emotions I then go to watch reaction videos instead. Seeing somebody else jumping, shouting and crying at some hype content can be such a cathartic way to have emotions spill over on you. They over-react so that my under-react can be remedied.

 

[Odysseus]

In a weird way I get more emotional remembering things than seeing them the first time. I think back on a playthrough I watched where the player started freaking out upon hearing the Air Buster theme for the first time, and it makes me remember what an incredible thing it is that this game even exists.