Trace of Two Pasts novel discussion

waw

Pro Adventurer
The Kids Are Alright is unable to pull me in. I've only ever read summaries and a few chapters, but all along the way my mind keeps asking "Why does this book exist?" and "Why should I be invested?". It just doesn't work for me, despite what it adds to the lore.

I actually really loved this one and I'm totally invested into Evan, Kyrie, etc. I'd honestly love a fully on FFVII sequel that played as Marlene, Denzel, Evan, Kyrie, and a few of the other characters getting introduced to wrap some things up. Though... maybe I'm off topic at this point.

This is just an aside, but do people really react in such exaggerated ways? I've seen tweets of people claiming to be crying, sobbing, shaking, hearts breaking.... Is this a manner of speaking, or are they really swooning and having the vapours? It seems so over the top.

A few years back, a good friend of mine lost both of his daughters in a horrific accident. Me and my friends were at the funeral and in part we had to work security. His ex-wife's family was incredibly violent toward my friend, the whole thing was a powder keg. So we were pretty stoic through the whole thing, seeing the two girls and their mother in their casket (only one of the girls could be visible due to the nature of the accident). It was an incredibly rough weekend. I didn't shed one tear, I had to be "game on" with my crew.

So on the way back, my wife and I had a train "layover" in Chicago with six hours to kill, we stopped into a local theater and watched The Dark Knight Rises, you know, the one where Christian Bale remakes Adam West's scene of "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb." And in that scene, (spoilers) it seems like Batman dies in a nuclear explosion.

I'm telling you I sobbed. Not just a little sobbed. I sobbed for Batman's death like a blubbering idiot. I was pretty much wailing. Grown man, in Chicago, in a theater, just ugly crying and sobbing uncontrollably. Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely love me some Batman, but I don't really cry over character deaths. I cried hard that day... the emotions from the weekend caught up with me.

In another, I was reading a sci-fi novel in which a main character goes through trauma close to my own and it just hit me really, really hard. I cried hard then, too. Couldn't help it.

My wife and I watched Turner and Hooch and it hit these heartstrings with my childhood dog that I lost (and used to watch a lot with her). And so yeah, I cried then too.

These are probably the only instances where stories have made me cry (and none so hard as Batman) but yes, I think it does happen. It happens when we connect in certain ways with our own emotional pasts and scars. It just hits us at weird times. A lot of these are exagerations, but there are people who are so invested in folks like Tifa, Jessie, and Aerith that they can actually cry over these things.
 
Tears were streaming down my face throughout the entirety of Moana when I saw it in a movie theater. My silent crying was just CONSTANT. I didn't even know my body could generate such waterfall tears. It was a perfect storm of the movie's aesthetics and themes resonating with me and my psychological state at the time.
 

a_apple 2.0

Pro Adventurer
AKA
a_apple
For those reading it, I've decided to post this really screwed up question. I'll provide a bit of context first.

The doctors that worked on Tifa seem to be connected to Zangan (the elder being a former? student). They reconstructed Tifa, including using metal on her bones to fix the wound from Sephiroth. They then do a skin graff to make sure there's no scarring. (If I understand this right).

They then took a photo of her (during operatio or slightly after?) as well as stole her money. They show this picture to Marle, which angers her and bonds Marle to Tifa.

I don't understand what this photo was, exactly, and why it's so problematic. If it's just a photo of a girl in operation, on one hand, they're showing their work? That makes it maybe less sexualized and more morbid. But it seems to be of a sexual nature, i.e. her exposed breasts. With the metal reconstruction going on and rebuilding Tifa's body, does the text hint that they gave her breast augmentation and were showing that off? Is that what's going on? That seems to be what's going on, but I can't really tell.

Square hasn't been shy about focusing on Tifa's bosom at various times in the past, but there's some... uh... awareness that this is problematic? Is this their attempt at taking an out?

Lastly, I wonder how much of these doctors connected to Zangan and had Tifa in their debt would have shown up in the cut Tifa chapter from Remake.....
I mean she is a 15 year old girl with no guardian who didn't consent or even knows that there were taken pictures of her while she was unconscious. Which later then were show to a third party. In the US you would easily get on a sex offender register for that :mon:
 

Shadowfox

You look like you need a monkey
This is just an aside, but do people really react in such exaggerated ways? I've seen tweets of people claiming to be crying, sobbing, shaking, hearts breaking.... Is this a manner of speaking, or are they really swooning and having the vapours? It seems so over the top.

Likely a bit of both? The details in the novella can be dark, frustrating, and difficult to read. So when they empathise with the character, they'll feel emotional about it. Although sometimes the expression of these emotions can be a little over the top, but that's the way it is online. We can't always get a clear idea of the emotion or tone of a post from pure text alone, so maybe using exaggerated expressions and emojis can be a way to overcome that.
 

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
I definetly use emoji's more than I physically react to emotions. But then, I am annoyingly good at compartmentalizing stuff, especially when it's fiction. I'm a lot better at identifying how a situation *should* make me feel if I was "normal" than how it *actually* makes me feel. Which leads to bizarre stuff like me being totally fine watching really tragic stuff I didn't emotionally connect with (to the point I start thinking other things in the background of scenes are humorous because I'm *board* with the tragedy going on and am looking to etertain myself with something).

I think the thing that caused me to cry the most in fiction in forever was Ending E of NieR Automata and if you know how that ends, you know it's *not* exactly a tragedy. I was crying because it was turning out how I *hoped* it would turn out, but didn't think it would due to Yoko Taro mainly giving everyone tragic endings.

TLDR: I cry more over essentially reading a game script than over acted out "dramatic" dialogue/scenes.
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
I don’t cry

I do get sad at stuff in fiction every now and then but never to the point of crying, really I’ve only ever cried about stuff that’s happened to me IRL
 

waw

Pro Adventurer
I mean she is a 15 year old girl with no guardian who didn't consent or even knows that there were taken pictures of her while she was unconscious. Which later then were show to a third party. In the US you would easily get on a sex offender register for that :mon:

Yes, let me rephrase:
I'm not wondering what is wrong about taking a photo of an unconcious underage girl during surgery in any context.

I am curious, however, as to what the characters in Midgar are thinking about it. *What they are thinking is wrong about it.
 
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Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
i have not been reading this thread because i want to be surprised for the novel so i'm trying to go in with as little prior knowledge as possible. my copy was meant to be here tomorrow but i got an email saying it's arriving today.

has there been a chapter by chapter summary of the book yet or just snippets? i did that for the turks and ffx-2.5 novels, and if it's not been done for this one yet i'll do it again.
 

a_apple 2.0

Pro Adventurer
AKA
a_apple
i have not been reading this thread because i want to be surprised for the novel so i'm trying to go in with as little prior knowledge as possible. my copy was meant to be here tomorrow but i got an email saying it's arriving today.

has there been a chapter by chapter summary of the book yet or just snippets? i did that for the turks and ffx-2.5 novels, and if it's not been done for this one yet i'll do it again.
There are some out there but they all are kinda wonky and very TLDR-ish, so you translating and summarizing parts of the novel would be like getting Christmas early this year :monster:
 

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
Strangelove said:
has there been a chapter by chapter summary of the book yet or just snippets? i did that for the turks and ffx-2.5 novels, and if it's not been done for this one yet i'll do it again.

So far what I've seen is snippets until page 40, but in barrage of dot points.

One self proclaimed Clerith guy is starting from Aerith's chapter. But he's only gotten as far as 2 pages because he's doing it word for word.
https://twitter.com/istanleyff7

It seems that one part of the book repeats what was previously published about Aerith's time in the Shinra building. It's translated in it's entirety here.
By the same guy

One self proclaimed Tifa fan is doing this in bits and pieces, and where most people here are getting the info from.
https://twitter.com/HayashiNagisa

What would be incredibly helpful (for me at least) is for an summary in chronological order, and noteworthy plot points. There is not much clarity on where the novel starts and ends, and how it relates to the present

Thanks a lot! I was a poor kid with no credit card back then, and always appreciated your work! :lol:
I've adulted now, so hit me up if you have a ko-fi
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I believe Hayashi Nagisa is doing summaries chronologically. She’s put that one today:

sorry I can’t copy paste cause I’m on my phone, it’s a bother XD But yeah she’s not really doing interactions that started it all? Anyway do what you want hito ;) It’s a long book!

I think the Tifa and Aerith convo happens at Junon - remember in the OG in the village they chat together so I think that’s where Nojima put that discussion. The Aerith part is on the ship to Costa del Sol. I can’t imagine part 2 covering less than the book so I think we’re definitely getting to at least Costa del Sol.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
i read the first 21 pages and wrote a summary, is this more detail than currently exists or is all this basically covered by other people already?

Traces of Two Pasts

Episode 1 - Tifa’s Path

It starts with Tifa looking out over the grasslands [outside of Midgar], when Aerith asks her if she is used to walking through plains and wastelands like this. Aerith said that she always wanted to go on a picnic but if this is what they’re like then she’s not bothered, and Tifa corrects her that what they’re doing is more ‘hiking’ than ‘picnic.’ Aerith asks if Tifa has had a picnic before, to which she replies that she did in Nibelheim but they used to call them ‘tea parties’ instead. Aerith asks to hear about them, which leads into a flashback.

***

Describes the history of Nibelheim, which started as somewhere people going to Mt. Nibel looking for rare plants and animals could get food and rest. Eventually it attracts the attention of Shinra, who needed somewhere to conduct cutting edge research away from the interference of the Republic of Junon (ジュノン共和国). They started to build what would later become known as the Shinra Manor in 1960, a year after discovering mako energy, followed by the Nibel reactor with labourers brought from around the world. Construction was completed in 1968, and that 8 year period was the peak of activity for the village. After that Shinra only left the people charged with managing their facilities and eventually the aging reactor was left out of commision due to degradation. The only thing supporting the village economically was the fees for land use and trust money from Shinra. The people knew they couldn’t maintain the village on that, when Shinra could cut them off at any moment, but no one would voice those worries.

***

Back to the present, with Tifa telling Aerith about how the only children near her age were four boys and they would play together as a group of four. One of the four boys was Cloud, who Tifa said wouldn’t take part and often started fights which led to his reputation as a dangerous weirdo.

***

Flashback, Tifa is born in May 1987 to father Brian Lockhard and mother Thea (テア), who would die of illness 7 years later leaving Brian to raise Tifa on his own. The women of the village would help out, teaching Tifa things like sewing and cooking. Nibelheim still retained an old way of life from the Republic. Men went out and worked while women protected the home, and a woman’s happiness depended on the man she would spend her life with.

Tifa had grown up with the three boys who formed her regular friend group: Emilio, Lester, and Taylor(エミリオ、レスター、テイラー). They were all the first children in their families, and their mothers were also close. But after Thea’s death, people started to treat Tifa as the ‘poor little girl.’ When she turned 10 the boys also changed and started recognising her as a potential romantic partner. She didn’t dislike the attention but would get stumped when one of them invited her to spend time alone. She didn’t want to hurt them so she would pretend she didn’t pick up on them hinting about their feelings and get out of invites with vague answers.

Eventually the boys start talking about leaving the village. They have different dreams like rising the ranks at Shinra or becoming rich in Midgar, but they all say the same things about supporting or looking after Tifa. To them, she’s a trophy for winning, proof they’ve made it.

On her 12th birthday her father gets her a pair of sandals that are currently trendy in Midgar, although they aren’t particularly suited to walking around the village. While she’s carefully watching her steps outside she runs into the village chief Zonder (ゾンダー). For her birthday he lets her pick a kitten from the litter that was recently born at his house. She picks one, named Maru (マル) by Zonder, but on the way home Maru tried to wriggle free and as Tifa attempts to hold on to the cat she loses her balance and falls. The village doctor Sanc (サンク) tells her she has sprained her ankle.

***

In the present, Tifa tells Aerith that in the end her sandals were ruined, she ended up bed-ridden for a week with a fever from an infection from the graze she got in the fall, and Maru escaped because her father would constantly leave the door open.

***

People visit Tifa to wish her well but she gets tired of it after the first day. She wants some time to herself and to go out and look for Maru and practice walking again but her father says it will have to wait until after tomorrow as he has to go up into the mountain to do repairs on the path to the reactor. Tifa says she can do it on her own, and her father reluctantly agrees as long as she promises to stay in the village and take it easy on her ankle. The next morning just as her father leaves for the mountain their neighbour, Claudia Strife, comes around. She has Maru, who she said Cloud found at the entrance to the mountain. Tifa is surprised that Cloud knew about Maru.

Now with Tifa lacking an excuse to go outside, Emilio turns up with a basket of food and drink and suggests going to the basin of the waterfall to practice walking. He says that her father had asked him to help Tifa, which she believes he inferred some special meaning behind. As they leave Lester shows up with a basket, and as they are looking for somewhere dry to sit at the basin Taylor appears. Her father seems to have asked all three to help her.

While they have their food, the boys talk about Midgar. On the way back as the boys have a minor disagreement as to what counts as a ‘picnic’ Tifa suggests calling it a ‘tea party’ based on a photo she saw of her mother’s grandparents from the days of the Republic. The boys agree to go with the name Tifa likes best. Their tea parties continued, with steadily decreasing frequency, until the boys left the village.

***

In the present, Tifa talks about how she thought of Midgar as something of a rival because that’s all the boys would talk about, and how she would want to wear what was popular there and started baking sweets to get the boys’ attention.

***

As the summer when the boys were leaving the village approaches Tifa starts getting sentimental. She decides to make a cake especially for a tea party and goes to the general store (where Emilio lives) for any missing ingredients. As she stands in front of the shop she senses someone looking at her, and turns to see Cloud. He meets her gazes instead of his usual behaviour of averting his eyes and going off somewhere. He says something but she can’t hear, then suddenly runs up to her. She almost runs away but he stops before bumping into her and quickly blurts out, “Midnight. At the water tower.” As soon as she answers Cloud darts off, leading Tifa to do the same for some reason. She forgets all about her shopping.

Back home she goes to her room and sits on the floor holding Maru, and thinks back to the last time Cloud had spoken to her. It was when Maru had gone missing, which happened numerous times since that first escape. Tifa was at the entrance to the mountain calling Maru’s name when Cloud walked down from the mountain. Without making eye contact, he says Maru is just past the entrance and continues walking back to the village. Then he stops and turns around, asking if Tifa hasn’t been feeding Maru, who was eating a bird. Tifa snaps back that she does, and goes into the mountain to find Maru with a mouth covered in blood.

Tifa wonders when that was. When they were little she and Cloud would often play together, which happened naturally being neighbours. She recalls a memory from when she was about 6 or 7, of her mother saying that Cloud has a lovely face and her father looking displeased. She wonders what caused them to drift apart. Her father knocks on her door and says he’s going to bed early, then when everyone is asleep she puts on her green dress and heads out.

~ Page 22
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
'maru' is a very japanese pet name but i was wondering if it might be 'mal' (i've not seen any comments from tifa's father yet, i will probably try to do a read through of the rest of the novel first just so i can enjoy the story without stopping every half a page to write down what just happened)
 

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
@Strangelove - That's excellent and more than I could ever ask for.
What we have earlier in the thread is something like this:
-After that, Cloud stopped playing with her
-She holds Mal and wonders what happened
-She asks Mal what should she wear? But of course, the cat does not answer and looks disinterested
-Her dad comes into the room and says he'll be sleeping early today
-She wishes him good night
-She then tries to figure out what to wear
-Since her father will be sleeping, this is the first time she will have to sneak out of the house at night
She remembers that Emilio said this one dress looked nice on her, so she decides on wearing the blue one piece dress

I think it's great @aitaikimochi on twitter tried to take a stab at it, but she was definitely on the "push it out as fast as humanly possible" mode which was janky and just an overall difficult reading experience. I gave up after a while.

Strangelove said:
People visit Tifa to wish her well but she gets tired of it after the first day. She wants some time to herself and to go out and look for Maru and practice walking again but her father says it will have to wait until after tomorrow as he has to go up into the mountain to do repairs on the path to the reactor. Tifa says she can do it on her own, and her father reluctantly agrees as long as she promises to stay in the village and take it easy on her ankle. The next morning just as her father leaves for the mountain their neighbour, Claudia Strife, comes around. She has Maru, who she said Cloud found at the entrance to the mountain. Tifa is surprised that Cloud knew about Maru.
Did Cloud go catch Maru knowing Tifa couldn't do it herself with a sprained ankle? Awh.

Strangelove said:
She recalls a memory from when she was about 6 or 7, of her mother saying that Cloud has a lovely face and her father looking displeased.
Vs;
Emilio turns up with a basket of food and drink and suggests going to the basin of the waterfall to practice walking. He says that her father had asked him to help Tifa
Clearly there is a Cloud /Tifa Shipper vs Emilio / Tifa shipper in the Lockhart household lol

Please do take your time with it, and enjoy the novel! :)

'maru' is a very japanese pet name
Off topic, but I just have to share my favourite Japanese maru.
 
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Humming

Pro Adventurer
@Strangelove I don't know who you are, but I will find you and I will hug you.

Liam-Neeson-Taken-2.jpg
 

waw

Pro Adventurer
'maru' is a very japanese pet name but i was wondering if it might be 'mal' (i've not seen any comments from tifa's father yet, i will probably try to do a read through of the rest of the novel first just so i can enjoy the story without stopping every half a page to write down what just happened)
Audrey translated it as "Mal" and everyone else I've seen has done "Maru." However, the father's comment about a the cat "living up to its name" makes "mal" (Espanol for Bad) make more sense to me, personally.

Thank you so much for the translation!
 
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