Translation of the original japanese game project aka How to wind up flunkies

[Kudistos Megistos]

@Kudistos Megistos

That's the beauty of the internet and discussion forums. When you post, you put yourself out there to have your post and idea critiqued. Maybe if he wasn't a thick headed and defensive poster who earned himself a pretty bad reputation with his bad attitude and arrogance, the criticism would've stayed civil, but asking people for input and ideas and then biting back when his ideas aren't unanimously accepted happily is grade school immaturity. If you're discussing a mod that's deliberately taking out a character because you don't like them and they're ingrained into the very plot, no shit someone's gonna vocalize criticism of that idea. He could've discussed intelligently and maturely without going "LEAVE ME ALONE ITS MAH PROJECT, I'LL DO WAT I WANT!"

Wow, that's a lot of posts since last night. Anyway it's not a discussion forum, it's a technical/mod forum. There are discussion threads and such, but that thread is a mod thread and the only "discussion" we have those threads is whether it's legal and whether it's possible. It passed those criteria, so there's no more discussion; if you don't like it, you don't have to install it. If we spent the first few pages of every thread discussing whether a mod was a good idea and only continued the project when most people agreed with it, we wouldn't get much done.

This is all aside from the fact that much of the "criticism" was hardly constructive and was only really made because people didn't like Seifer.

 

[Channy]

osnap, is dis him?

Also, I'm pretty sure any fan project involving pre existing material from the game, and modifying it in any way/shape/form and to produce it to others, is illegal. Poor Chrono Trigger took the blow on that one. And since they did, I suspect you won't get far with it.

 

[Ⓐaron]

What criticism wasn't constructive, and what evidence do you have that the only reason people were doing it was because people didn't like the OP?

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

osnap, is dis him?

Also, I'm pretty sure any fan project involving pre existing material from the game, and modifying it in any way/shape/form and to produce it to others, is illegal. Poor Chrono Trigger took the blow on that one. And since they did, I suspect you won't get far with it.

Well, the Chono Resurrection project was something quite different and was handled in a clumsy way that attracted Square's attention. Square knows about the qhimm forums and they haven't bothered to do anything about the mods. We have a policy against any sharing of files (we release patches instead) and any releases that use files from other games (which is why the projects using KHII models there don't get released), and that has kept us out of trouble.

What criticism wasn't constructive, and what evidence do you have that the only reason people were doing it was because people didn't like the OP?

Off the top of my head, this

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8454.msg103001#msg103001

I wouldn't call

Sorry, but it's just the silliest thought to ever be seen on my computer screen. I don't know why you're ruining the game like that. I can't even fathom it.

constructive. And it's pretty obvious that the drama in that thread is spill-over from the rest of the drama; I don't recall anything being explicit, but one can't help but put two and two together. And that particular poster has posted in a few other drama threads (if you look at his post history, you'll see that he denies being from here at first but admits to it later on).

 

[Channy]

Well, the Chono Resurrection project was something quite different and was handled in a clumsy way that attracted Square's attention. Square knows about the qhimm forums and they haven't bothered to do anything about the mods. We have a policy against any sharing of files (we release patches instead) and any releases that use files from other games (which is why the projects using KHII models there don't get released), and that has kept us out of trouble.

As far as SE is concerned, it's all mods on their copyrighted games. Chrono got shut down just two weeks before release. Is SE already knows of qhimms, it's safe to say they'll stop you just shy of a week before release as well.

Off the top of my head, this

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8454.msg103001#msg103001

I wouldn't call constructive. And it's pretty obvious that the drama in that thread is spill-over from the rest of the drama; I don't recall anything being explicit, but one can't help but put two and two together. And that particular poster has posted in a few other drama threads (if you look at his post history, you'll see that he denies being from here at first but admits to it later on).

Well then he certainly does have a lot of issues, doesn't he? Criticism is criticism, regardless of its negativity. qhimms seems to be a small community, and it's only because of its size that seifer feels so safe with all the positivity around him regarding his mods. And then one person comes up and objects with some fairly valid reasons and opinions, he just got butthurt over it and claimed it was ruining everything.

Besides, nothing had to spill onto anything if Seifer hadn't bothered bringing up TLS' good name into it.

 

[Ⓐaron]

How is pointing out potential objections people may have to a given modification not constructive? I don't get it. The post in question was a lot longer than the excerpt and listed a number of potential objections people may have. Simply pointing those out may cause a reevaluation of the hack's purpose and may ultimately cause people involved with the project to decide that it may be more worthwhile to focus more time on other projects that aren't likely to be countered with such fundamental objections. It may be a long shot, but claiming that "it's not constructive" is ridiculous.

That poster should have admitted to being from TLS from the start, but the fact that you're writing all of her posts off as being due to dislike of the OP is absurd. She posted questions on the Lifestream topics, did not get responses from the OP, took the debate to Qhimms in an attempt to receive responses to these questions, continued not to receive responses. I don't particularly see what in that indicates that she has it in for the OP. She might be a bit overenthusiastic about these things but for you to turn this into a personal attack on her is pretty damn laughable.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

As far as SE is concerned, it's all mods on their copyrighted games. Chrono got shut down just two weeks before release. Is SE already knows of qhimms, it's safe to say they'll stop you just shy of a week before release as well.

Lot's of projects have been released, and they don't care. The mods on qhimm aren't very different from the mods a lot of other games get, but the Chrono Resurrection mod came across as being a full remake that might actually be damaging to their sales (if Square had wanted to make a 3D version of Chrono Trigger). That's a whole different world from a few patches.

Well then he certainly does have a lot of issues, doesn't he? Criticism is criticism, regardless of its negativity. qhimms seems to be a small community, and it's only because of its size that seifer feels so safe with all the positivity around him regarding his mods. And then one person comes up and objects with some fairly valid reasons and opinions, he just got butthurt over it and claimed it was ruining everything.

Besides, nothing had to spill onto anything if Seifer hadn't bothered bringing up TLS' good name into it.

Hold on, who are you calling butthurt in that thread?

And even if the criticisms were valid, they were wrapped up in vitriol, which makes them hard to take seriously.

And nice italics there. Do you know that poster by any chance?

 

[Ⓐaron]

Seifer was butthurt, as his behaviour throughout this thread makes more than apparent.

And you have yet to demonstrate this alleged "vitriol." I don't see it, other people from TLS don't see it, you and Seifer seem to be the only ones who see it.

 

[Channy]

Lot's of projects have been released, and they don't care. The mods on qhimm aren't very different from the mods a lot of other games get, but the Chrono Resurrection mod came across as being a full remake that might actually be damaging to their sales (if Square had wanted to make a 3D version of Chrono Trigger). That's a whole different world from a few patches.

Patches are patches, and I'm not talking about Chrono Ressurection, I'm talking about Crimson Echoes, a modified sequel from Chrono Triggers sprites, etc that was going to be released as a simple patch for no profit.

It's all the same rly.

Hold on, who are you calling butthurt in that thread?

And even if the criticisms were valid, they were wrapped up in vitriol, which makes them hard to take seriously.

And nice italics there. Do you know that poster by any chance?

Seifer of course. I thought it was fairly obvious with his constant bawwwing, his "You're ruining my thread" mentality, and general opposition to ignorant fanboys. Which I find ironic because isn't it usually the hardkorest of fanboys who encourage patches, and mods for a game they love?

Just lolling at the misrepresentation of the sex of the OP is all.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Regarding the legal discussion, I'm not a lawyer (and I sorely doubt anyone here/at Qhimms is either) but it occurs to me that if the Big Bad Square Enix sends a cease and desist order there's pretty much fuck-all anyone can do unless they manage to find someone who's willing to piss away possible hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal costs, regardless of what the laws about modifications actually are. So it's kind of irrelevant - Square Enix will shut down what they want to shut down. That said, there has been speculation that Crimson Echoes' "cease and desist order" may actually have been a forgery created to generate interest in the project, but until official confirmation is available I won't comment one way or the other.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

How is pointing out potential objections people may have to a given modification not constructive? I don't get it. The post in question was a lot longer than the excerpt and listed a number of potential objections people may have. Simply pointing those out may cause a reevaluation of the hack's purpose and may ultimately cause people involved with the project to decide that it may be more worthwhile to focus more time on other projects that aren't likely to be countered with such fundamental objections. It may be a long shot, but claiming that "it's not constructive" is ridiculous.

That poster should have admitted to being from TLS from the start, but the fact that you're writing all of her posts off as being due to dislike of the OP is absurd. She posted questions on the Lifestream topics, did not get responses from the OP, took the debate to Qhimms in an attempt to receive responses to these questions, continued not to receive responses. I don't particularly see what in that indicates that she has it in for the OP. She might be a bit overenthusiastic about these things but for you to turn this into a personal attack on her is pretty damn laughable.

It starts with an insult, it ends with an insult. That isn't constructive. And come on, do you actually believe that she would have said what she said if it had been someone else's project? And it's pretty laughable that this is being construed as a personal attack against her. I was asked for an example of non constructive criticism and I gave one, that's all. I don't have any ill-will to whoever that was.

McChanny[/URL]]Just lolling at the misrepresentation of the sex of the OP is all.

Misrepresentation? Most people in these parts of the internet are men; it's pretty common to assume that a poster is a man unless she says "I'm a girl".

 

[Channy]

Regarding the legal discussion, I'm not a lawyer (and I sorely doubt anyone here/at Qhimms is either) but it occurs to me that if the Big Bad Square Enix sends a cease and desist order there's pretty much fuck-all anyone can do unless they manage to find someone who's willing to piss away possible hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal costs, regardless of what the laws about modifications actually are. So it's kind of irrelevant - Square Enix will shut down what they want to shut down.

This pretty much sums it up. If SE wants something dead, they'll kill it.

That said, there has been speculation that Crimson Echoes' "cease and desist order" may actually have been a forgery created to generate interest in the project, but until official confirmation is available I won't comment one way or the other.

Really? I hadn't heard that. D;

It starts with an insult, it ends with an insult. That isn't constructive. And come on, do you actually believe that she would have said what she said if it had been someone else's project? And it's pretty laughable that this is being construed as a personal attack against her. I was asked for an example of non constructive criticism and I gave one, that's all. I don't have any ill-will to whoever that was.

Probably, because any project involving the removal of a key character IS dumb. If it were Vincent or Yuffie, probably not to much because they're secret characters, there's no FMV's involving them, no mandatory plot devices.. But Cait Sith is, and always will be, a key character in FFVII. No matter how much he sucks or is disliked, you can't just remove him. It's like removing Tifa.

orite, no girls on the internet. Sorry Aaron, no tits for you ever.

 

[Ⓐaron]

It starts with an insult, it ends with an insult. That isn't constructive. And come on, do you actually believe that she would have said what she said if it had been someone else's project? And it's pretty laughable that this is being construed as a personal attack against her. I was asked for an example of non constructive criticism and I gave one, that's all. I don't have any ill-will to whoever that was.

"I think the replacement of Cait Sith is just a dumb idea" constitutes an insult now? Really? It's a personal opinion. What kind of show do they run over at Qhimms? Is any criticism of an idea equated to flaming the person who comes up with it? It's absurd. There's no insult in that post.

If Silvers had come across that thread at any message board she felt to register at, I suspect the reaction would have been exactly the same regardless of who posted it.

By the very reasoning that you're using to dismiss Silvers' post as a personal attack against Seifer, your post is a personal attack against her. What is so difficult to construe about that?

And you still haven't demonstrated how pointing out flaws in the reasoning behind a hack is in the least bit non-constructive.

Misrepresentation? Most people in these parts of the internet are men; it's pretty common to assume that a poster is a man unless she says "I'm a girl".

Actually, I'd say more than half the posters on these boards are female.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

Probably, because any project involving the removal of a key character IS dumb. If it were Vincent or Yuffie, probably not to much because they're secret characters, there's no FMV's involving them, no mandatory plot devices.. But Cait Sith is, and always will be, a key character in FFVII. No matter how much he sucks or is disliked, you can't just remove him. It's like removing Tifa.

I agree with every word of the middle parts of her post, and I won't be installing the mod myself. I just don't see the need for insults, and using them will get anything you say ignored.

"I think the replacement of Cait Sith is just a dumb idea" constitutes an insult now? Really? It's a personal opinion. What kind of show do they run over at Qhimms? Is any criticism of an idea equated to flaming the person who comes up with it? It's absurd. There's no insult in that post.

"Dumb" is an insult where I come from. If you don't agree, then perhaps you'll agree that it's at least very strong wording for constructive criticism.

By the very reasoning that you're using to dismiss Silvers' post as a personal attack against Seifer, your post is a personal attack against her. What is so difficult to construe about that?

So it's a personal insult to call something a personal insult. Does that mean you're making a personal insult against me? I think she was wrong to say what she said in the way she said it, and I thought that she said it the way she said it because she was unhappy with the OP. I have no wish to make personal attack on anyone.

And you still haven't demonstrated how pointing out flaws in the reasoning behind a hack is in the least bit non-constructive.

Nor would I want to. But calling things stupid is not constructive.

Actually, I'd say more than half the posters on these boards are female.

Well I didn't know that, but it's certainly interesting. Maybe I hang out in the wrong parts of the internets?

 

[Ⓐaron]

Really? I hadn't heard that. D;

see hear for moar

orite, no girls on the internet. Sorry Aaron, no tits for you ever.

Well shit, I guess that sex I thought I had with a female actually must have been with a guy. Funny that I didn't even notice.

I agree with every word of the middle parts of her post, and I won't be installing the mod myself. I just don't see the need for insults, and using them will get anything you say ignored.

I still don't see where any insults have been made in any post under question.

 

[Channy]

Copy paste please the insults, because we fail to see them obviously.

 

[Vendel]

:drama:

 

[Channy]

Well shit, I guess that sex I thought I had with a female actually must have been with a guy. Funny that I didn't even notice.

I still don't see where any insults have been made in any post under question.

O; Did our little Aaron finally break his dry spell?

Or are you yanking my chain?

 

[Ⓐaron]

No I'm talking about the sex I had 4+ years ago

 

[Channy]

That was a woman from the internets?

 

[Ⓐaron]

correct, in fact she was actually a member of ACF (though that's not where we met) and is also a member of TLS

 

[A]

Only TLS has the capability to switch discussion from debating at one minute and talking about Aaron's dry spell the next.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Incorrect, other message boards at which I am a member also have that capacity. Though it seems to happen most often here.

 

[A]

Yes, but those other message boards probably don't have tits in every single one of their threads,

Well I didn't know that, but it's certainly interesting. Maybe I hang out in the wrong parts of the internets?

There are as many females as males on the Internet. True fact.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

Copy paste please the insults, because we fail to see them obviously.

The "dumb" in the first sentence might be construed as pretty insulting in the context of the drama.

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8454.msg103001#msg103001

"Do you hate FFVII?" isn't a very nice thing to say to a FF7 fan.

And again:

"Sorry, but it's just the silliest thought to ever be seen on my computer screen. I don't know why you're ruining the game like that. I can't even fathom it."

Come on, unless you've never read comments on youtube or visited a certain image whose name we can't say, then that's pretty insulting, because there are some pretty dumb things to be seen on computer screens.