Translation of the original japanese game project aka How to wind up flunkies

[DLPB]

About this Cathy person... How can you trust someone who has told you that the original Japanese made a distinction between plural and singular when it's fairly common knowledge that there is no distinction between plural and singular in Japanese,

because she is right. The Weapons are plural. Ity is just common sense and she applied it. Her english is obviously very good and what she has wrote has been verified on qhimms and elsewhere as a very good translation. Also, my experience knowing every single dialogue in the game tells me she is right. What isn't in doubt is her translation is better. There is no debate with that I am afraid.

and who translates "Kuraudo" as "Claude"? Does she really think they meant to name him Claude Strife?

Names of people are NOT easy to differentiate and they have nothing to do with the core translation. She made the translation BEFORE the NA came out. Names can be easily sorted. This isnt an issue. (it is if you are a professional and supposedly in contact with the hierarchy)

Aeris/Aerith, on the other hand— not the biggest fuck up in the world,

Yes it is. This is a multi million dollar budget. It is a game that you expect to have the main character translated for properly. There is NO EXCUSE. Can you imagine Seifer being translated as seefer? Aerith is right. Aeris is WRONG. We aren't talking a few mistakes here. I have been through the whole game and the errors are so frequent it is frankly unbelieveable that the team wasn't sacked.

There's no difference, so I don't see why she had a problem with just going with the spelling already used.

Again it is a name. And the NA wasn't out.

 

[DLPB]

I think that might be more along the lines of "but [the person] we thought was Cloud was... [actually Sephiroth's puppet]."

Yes but the actual convo is just "out of the blue" in the NA version.

he just says it....

{TIFA}
“I'm sorry‚{BARRET}.”
{NEW PAGE}
“I'm so depressed,
I'm surprised at myself.”
{RED XIII}
“And {TIFA}…the reason why we all
thought it was {CLOUD}
was because…”
{TIFA}
“I know.”
{NEW PAGE}
“That's why I want to make sure.
That's why I have to see him again.”

I mean? Where the hell does that come from? make sure of what?

Can you look at that in the script and clear up what RED XIII actually says please and how the conversation pans out. It doesnt sound right at all for him to just say that

 

[ForceStealer]

Yes it is. This is a multi million dollar budget. It is a game that you expect to have the main character translated for properly. There is NO EXCUSE. Can you imagine Seifer being translated as seefer? Aerith is right. Aeris is WRONG. We aren't talking a few mistakes here. I have been through the whole game and the errors are so frequent it is frankly unbelieveable that the team wasn't sacked.

Oh please, it is not. The "th" was placed there arbitrarily when Square, a Japanese company, wrote her name in English as a syllable they cannot even pronounce. In Japanese it is absolutely an "s" sound.

I'm not saying you're wrong about what the correct name is, but pretending its a catastrophic error that calls for the firing of the translation team is absurd. It's a completely understandable mistake, especially considering that "Aeris" (in other spellings) is actually a real name, whereas Aerith is not.

 

[Strangelove]

WEAPON was (at least in this case) a made-up term, so the rules on how it should be pluralised (either having a plural form, or not like 'sheep', etc.) aren't set in stone. It'd be up to Square whether it can be 'WEAPON' for singular and plural or not.

Can you look at that in the script and clear up what RED XIII actually says please and how the conversation pans out. It doesnt sound right at all for him to just say that

It's not much different. Red's changing the subject/bringing Cloud back up, and Tifa wants to see Cloud again to confirm (who Cloud is, if he really was a Sephiroth Copy)

"those who disliked journeying appeared" is a poor translation for starters. Appeared is a poor word to use in context. " One day, a few of them
started to hate this journey." is much more plausible.

"Those who disliked journeying appeared" is closer to what the original said, even if 'disliked journeying' does sound awkward.

 

[DLPB]

O
, but pretending its a catastrophic error that calls for the firing of the translation team is absurd. .

It isn't that 1 error that is catastrophic. Listen to what I am telling you. The whole game has HUGE amounts wrong with it.

Not 1 sentence. Not 2 not even 100.

MORE. As someone who has played the game through countless times and looked into the subject, it is obvious.

Only a complete idiot could get "Sephiroth has many different flunkies"

instead of "Sephiroth can duplicate himself, remember"

And that is 1 example of many. Tseng in the temple of the Ancients: "Damn, Ive been tricked"
rather than "he....beat...me". Being tricked is complete nonsense. The incompetence of the translating team for VII isn't a question and is not up for debate.

 

[Strangelove]

Only a complete idiot could get "Sephiroth has many different flunkies"

instead of "Sephiroth can duplicate himself, remember"

The first one is closer to the original line though, even if 'flunkies' is a bit of a daft choice of words.

Aerith: Exactly. The psychic strength of one person alone isn't enough.
It needs to be in a special place...somewhere with lots of lifestream...
.... !! The Promised Land!!

"Psychic strength" doesn't really seem to be a good match for 'spirit energy' (and the translation in general seems to drop the 'spirit' throughout this scene). It uses 'Lifestream' where the original used 'the planet's energy' again. "You can't jump off a moving train" isn't as good a translation as the one the English game used (what I think it used, "there's no getting off this train we're on" or something?).

Just because it's different, doesn't mean it's necessarily always more correct. Even if something reads fluently, doesn't mean it's not wrong.

 

[DLPB]

yes, I have changed psychic strength to spirit energy already. Are you sure you are using the original game? or scrpt? Sephiroth splitting into 2 happens just prior to that scene and fits 100% with what is happening. Flunkies certainly doesnt and sephiroth hasnt got any chums. Everybody brings this scene up as wrong and then to find Cathy has translated it differently is a bit strange. There is no way she could make so many mistakes, esp as every single one of them fit better than the NA.

 

[Strangelove]

I don't mean Sephiroth splitting into two doesn't happen (although every appearance of Sephiroth prior to the Whirlwind Maze was just Jenova), just that the line doesn't talk about him being able to do that; it's about there being a lot of 'other selves/doubles'.

 

[DLPB]

I don't mean Sephiroth splitting into two doesn't happen (although every appearance of Sephiroth prior to the Whirlwind Maze was just Jenova), just that the line doesn't talk about him being able to do that; it's about there being a lot of 'other selves/doubles'.

That is my point. Could it not mean that he can copy himself? Since that is what they just saw in the prior scene...

Other selves and doubles seems more likely to be that than "he has some buddies"

?

 

[Strangelove]

It doesn't mean that he can't, but that's changing what the line was originally about. It's not just saying he has the ability to do this, but that he already has many of these doubles who would throw away their lives to get him the Black Materia.

'Double' doesn't necessarily mean an identical copy of him. Early drafts of FFVII called Cloud Sephiroth's double, without them sharing an appearance.

 

[DLPB]

It doesn't mean that he can't, but that's changing what the line was originally about. It's not just saying he has the ability to do this, but that he already has many of these doubles who would throw away their lives to get him the Black Materia.

'Double' doesn't necessarily mean an identical copy of him. Early drafts of FFVII called Cloud Sephiroth's double, without them sharing an appearance.

I am beginning to understand it. However, jenova allows him to do this. It is the power of jenova that allows him to appear as 2 or more people or even change into people like Tifa. Afteral;l the real sephiroth is at the north cave all the way through the game almost.

So yes, flunkies is definately out. That implies he has mates. This translation means that he has doubles or copies. So I am erring on that being more correct

What you think?

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

I think you shouldn't put so much blind faith in Cathy, since this thread has already proven her to be incorrect or mistaken a few times. That's all I'm saying. You should see the proof yourself and try to understand as much of it as possible. Have it explained to you rather than just accepting a statement of what is and what isn't. Otherwise you can't make assertions like the ones you're trying to.

 

[ForceStealer]

Only a complete idiot could get "Sephiroth has many different flunkies"

Color me a total idiot then. I always knew exactly what he means, he meant the black-cloaked muttering clones. Sephiroth didn't duplicate himself, Hojo made those and Sephiroth can control them just like he can Cloud.

Also, "flunky" odd word as it may be, does not mean "chum" it means a male servant, a laborer. Weird? Yeah, but it still applies and Cloud is from the boonies. EDIT: Dictionary.com has even more appropriate definitions, such as "A person of slavish or unquestioning obedience; a lackey."

Look, it's not like I'm against a retranslation, its a great idea. Because the original WAS very flawed, but you're just so militant about it. The spotty translation created some ambiguity where it didn't previously exist, but it didn't break the game, most people still got what was going on.

 

[Eerie]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand what's the problem with this quote?

{TIFA}
“I'm sorry‚ {BARRET}.”
“I'm so depressed,
I'm surprised at myself.”
{RED XIII}
“And {TIFA}…the reason why we all
thought it was {CLOUD}
was because…”
{TIFA}
“I know.”
“That's why I want to make sure.
That's why I have to see him again.”

I thought it was obvious: the reason why they all thought it was Cloud was because [TIFA] told them so - why wouldn't they believe her? She's the one who knows Cloud the most, after all. And that's the reason why she wants to see him again - because she doesn't know if he's the real Cloud or Jenova's puppet.

After that, the Japanese version may vary, so I can't judge the translation, but the quote in itself does make sense. If it's wrong, it's made up stuff, but it does stand on its own - the rest is up to you guys XD

 

[DLPB]

I always knew exactly what he means,

Well that depends who is right. If cathy is right, then you didn't know at all. If not, flunkies is the completely wrong word (simply because it is a crap word...and doesnt TELL you that they ,mean the black robes) We are talking translation error here, not "guess what it means" game.

At the very leats it should be "Sephiroth has the black cloaked people to help him, remember?" although this makes little sense, since they dont seem to be able to do anything.

he meant the black-cloaked muttering clones. Sephiroth didn't duplicate himself,

Yes he does. he does it right bfore this scene. he talks to you whilst also injuring tseng. he also shows double of himself in the animations all the way through this scene. There are quite clearly TWO sephiroths that fly off.

I thought it was obvious: the reason why they all thought it was Cloud was because [TIFA] told them so - why wouldn't they believe her? She's the one who knows Cloud the most, after all. And that's the reason why she wants to see him again - because she doesn't know if he's the real Cloud or Jenova's puppet.

After that, the Japanese version may vary, so I can't judge the translation, but the quote in itself does make sense. If it's wrong, it's made up stuff, but it does stand on its own - the rest is up to you guys XD

It doesn't stand on its own. It is poorly translated, even if you can suss what it means. "the reason we thought it was cloud was because"

Is not the same as "The reason we thought it WAS cloud was because of you....you and cloud....." etc etc



{TIFA}
“I know.”
{NEW PAGE}
“That's why I want to make sure.


even then:

“That's why I want to make sure.

does not make much sense....in this context. make sure of what? She has just seen him in the lifestream, she has seen him afterwards also? She would more likely say "i know...don't worry about it. "

The dialogue is just extremely awkward. It needs a small adjustment. These small things are why I need a japanese to go through the script and converse.

Awkward text is not allowed.

I think you shouldn't put so much blind faith in Cathy, since this thread has already proven her to be incorrect or mistaken a few times. .

I don't think it has proven anything....by the looks of it, there is confusion translating certain aspects. I think the sephiroth duplicate is more appropriate given he has just duplicated himself on more than 1 occasion.

But in any case, double/copy is not the same as flunky.

Her translation is by far better than the original overall. I know, because I have gone through it all. Every bit.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Okay, DLPB, you just triple posted. Again, I ask you. Use the edit button. There is seriously no reason at all for you to post three times in a row.

 

[Eerie]

Tifa's reply to Red XIII's sentence is what is supposed to help you understand what it does mean. The translation problem is another matter altogether, I still stand my point. You don't have to finish all the sentences your characters say to make your point across. /facepalm

{RED XIII}
“And {TIFA}…the reason why we all
thought it was {CLOUD}
was because…”

If Red XIII talks to Tifa, then, what does Tifa has to say? They thought it was Cloud because...

{TIFA}
“I know.”
“That's why I want to make sure.
That's why I have to see him again.”

Because OF Tifa. That's WHY she has to MAKE SURE, that's why she has to meet up with Cloud again. What is so hard to understand, I don't get it. You're playing a game where you KNOW Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends, that Tifa is the only one who knew him from before. I still stand my point, IF the translation is right - which I cannot help or check - then this is perfectly valid and understandable.

 

[DLPB]

If Red XIII talks to Tifa, then, what does Tifa has to say? They thought it was Cloud because...

Because OF Tifa. That's WHY she has to MAKE SURE, that's why she has to meet up with Cloud again. What is so hard to understand, I don't get it. You're playing a game where you KNOW Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends, that Tifa is the only one who knew him from before. I still stand my point, IF the translation is right - which I cannot help or check - then this is perfectly valid and understandable.

Im sorry but that sounds very very wishy washy and awkward. That will NOT be what it says *exactly* in the original japanese. So someone should check that up.

 

[Strangelove]

I thought it was obvious: the reason why they all thought it was Cloud was because [TIFA] told them so - why wouldn't they believe her? She's the one who knows Cloud the most, after all. And that's the reason why she wants to see him again - because she doesn't know if he's the real Cloud or Jenova's puppet.

I didn't think about that, but I think that makes the most sense. I think I didn't consider the whole story before. What she 'wanted to make sure' of was if Cloud was really the Cloud she knew.

The English one is no less clear than the Japanese one. Red's line in both ends before he finishes what he was saying, without giving the exact reason. You're left to work it out yourself from Tifa's response.

Well that depends who is right. If cathy is right, then you didn't know at all.

In that case, Cathy isn't right, because nothing in the line (セフィロスにはたくさんの分身がいるじゃない&#12363 talks about the ability to create these doubles, just that he has many (セフィロスには= [with] Sephiroth; たくさんの= many; 分身が= doubles; いる= there are/exist). Change 'flunkies' for something else, and the English version's line should be fine.

 

[DLPB]

Well flunkies is definately wrong. I will choose to use "Sephiroth has the strange men with tatoos"

or "Sephiroth has the Tatooed clones"

that is pretty much what you are saying. Flunky...well, that doesnt tell you that. So that is an improvement. I still dont like that because all through the game we have seen these black things doing nothing. All they are capable of is saying sephiroth. They do not seem capable AT ALL of getting a black materia (which requirs puzzle solving). Still....

Can you translate as best you can, that whole dialogue with tifa and RED XIII?

“That's why I want to make sure.

does she mean "that's why I had to make sure" which is very different to “That's why I want to make sure.

 

[ForceStealer]

Quite frankly I'd trust hitoshura over this Cathy person any day the week. Wishy washy and awkward? Have you watched/played other Japanese mediums? If you expected this game to hand everything to plain as day you're playing the wrong series.

And if only idiots get it, how come all of us do?

And every single Sephiroth you meet could be defined as a "flunky." He's not actually splitting off doubles of himself, he is just having Jenova morph into him. And since Jenova can operate in pieces, those are the multiple versions himself. Jenova itself is a flunky. So what if its a stupid word, Cloud's from a backwater town and was never eloquent - and still, I knew what he meant when I was 10 years old.

Once more, I'm not against this project, I encourage it, but why are you so belligerent? You came here asking for help and then belittle us for understanding what you apparently couldn't.

As others have said, flavorful text doesn't make it wrong. "Son of a submariner" is the most ludicrous expletive ever, and I guarantee you its not in the Japanese text. But it fits Kefka and despite several ports and chances to change it, they never did.

 

[Eerie]

WTH are you talking about?

That's why she wants to make sure, means that it didn't happen yet! If you translate by "that's why I had to make sure", the meaning is vastly different - and you can bet you have one major mistranslation there. She says so herself, that she has to meet up with Cloud once again, to understand WHO is that Cloud, if he's the one she's always known or a mere puppet. Seriously, what is so hard to understand, I DO NOT GET IT.

 

[DLPB]

? If you expected this game to hand everything to plain as day you're playing the wrong series.

To be frank, I think you are allowing fanboyism to "cloud" your judgement. Back at qhimms it is common knowledge that the translation is poor and NEVER, on 5 forums, have I come across anyone arguing in favour of the flunkies line. It is obviously wrong.

And if only idiots get it, how come all of us do?

You have pushed words into my mouth. I said, the translating team were idiots. If you read it properly rather than seeing what you want to. Why you get it? I don't know. I don't think many people would have worked out flunkies means tatooed clones. If you think they are the same thing, you need a dictionary. You are one of these people who would argue black is white aren't you

And every single Sephiroth you meet could be defined as a "flunky."

The game makes a distinction in the japanese with the words double and copy/clone. Flunky is incorrect whether you like it or not.

So what if its a stupid word, Cloud's from a backwater town and was never eloquent -

hahaha? So you think he would use a scottish word to describe tatooed cloaked cloned men? Please.

oh and just in case you have missed it. he says

"lots of different flunkies"

The clones are the same (clones happen to be identical). So that is also a poor translation, wouldnt u agree? Or will you argue that different is just ok in this context as well?

 

[Max Payne]

Hey, you people are getting too heated over this shit.

Chill out and be respectable kthnxbai.

 

[Strangelove]

The original Japanese word doesn't really sound as daft as 'flunky', but neither did 'crispy critters' or 'let's mosey'. Localizations can add a different spin on the original without it being a bad thing (Case in point, most of the Ivalice games (Vagrant Story, FFXII, FFT [PSP ver.]). Maybe these word choices were their attempts.

I still dont like that because all through the game we have seen these black things doing nothing. All they are capable of is saying sephiroth. They do not seem capable AT ALL of getting a black materia (which requirs puzzle solving). Still....

Everything the characters say doesn't necessarily have to be true. Sephiroth doesn't think much of using them to do what he wants, and I think the point there was that he could/would be willing to sacrifice one of them to obtain the Black Materia.

But as for them not really doing anything, according to Hojo the only successful Sephiroth Copy in the end was Cloud.

Can you translate as best you can, that whole dialogue with tifa and RED XIII?

“That's why I want to make sure.

does she mean "that's why I had to make sure" which is very different to “That's why I want to make sure.

Red XIII:
「それにティファ……オイラたちがクラウドだと思ってたのは……」
"And Tifa... we thought he was Cloud because..."

Tifa:
「……わかってる」
「だから確かめたいの。もう一度会いたいの」
"... I know."
"That's why I want to make sure. I want to see him one more time."

It's definitely not 'had to make sure', it's pretty clearly 'want to'.

You're still left with the reason being left unsaid, but that's not really uncommon in Japanese things.