Translation of the original japanese game project aka How to wind up flunkies

[ForceStealer]

It doesn't, in English. That's why they used flunky, following yet? Transliterations only cause more confusion. You can't use copy because the player doesn't necessarily know what that is yet. But anyone who got through grammar school will know what a flunky is and who he's referring to.

 

[DLPB]

It doesn't, in English. That's why they used flunky, following yet? Transliterations only cause more confusion.

No. because double means double. It doesnt mean flunky and how they get the word flunky OF ALL WORDS is a complete mystery.

I do not understand how double is supposed to fit....but going back to cathy, her version that he can duplicate himself seems miles more plausible using the word "double" .

 

[ForceStealer]

Holy crap, Sephiroth isn't duplicating himself, the black-cloaked men are copies! He can control them.

Cloud says that Sephiroth doesn't care about throwing their lives away, why would he say that about duplicates of himself, they wouldn't even have life.

Cloud uses 'double' to describe the mysterious men that seem to be blindly following Sephiroth's will.
Cloud uses 'flunky' to describe the mysterious men that seem to be blindly following Sephiroth's will.

Why is the choice of words such a complete mystery?

 

[Tetsujin]

Babelfish is giving me "offshoot" as translation.

And Sephiroth doesn't duplicate himself. So that's just wrong.

There is no italian translation for example, and there is no way they would even know what a flunkie is.

I don't think other countries are an important factor for the translators.

 

[DLPB]

Holy crap, Sephiroth isn't duplicating himself, the black-cloaked men are copies! He can control them.

Cloud says that Sephiroth doesn't care about throwing their lives away, why would he say that about duplicates of himself, they wouldn't even have life.

Her version says:

He doesnt have to throw his life away. Not "their"

But again, without a satisfactory answer to where double comes in, I cannot use flunky. In fact, I cant use flunky at all, since you are contending he means the black cloaks. if he does

"he has those black cloaked people to help him, it's nothing to throw their lives away"

< miles more accurate.

But there is no escaping the word "double"

 

[ForceStealer]

Then put "doubles" in if you're so damned determined, but that's going to make less sense to people.

In fact, I cant use flunky at all, since you are contending he means the black cloaks.

What did you think he meant in this scene? He means the black cloaks by flunky. Even if it's a strange word, its better than all of your suggestions.
It is not any more accurate! Everyone and their mother (besides you)knew what Cloud meant already!

 

[Makoeyes987]

Wow, you have just now have put a misnomer that has no veracity or coherency to the plot, over the literal, true meaning of the story, just so you can slag on the English version.

Wow.

Jesus, Sephiroth doesn't duplicate himself. He doesn't have duplicates. The black cloaked figures are not doubles.

Flunky makes more sense given the context and actual STORYLINE of the game. Language be damned. Sephiroth's copies are not doubles of him, nor is Cloud saying Sephiroth has "doubles" of himself. It's a metaphorical statement on them reflecting his will and serving as his hands and eyes to follow out his will. In Japanese, it probably makes sense to call your subordinate, follower, flunky or lacky, a double or shadow of yourself. Because they do what you do. But in english, that makes no sense. At all.

 

[Tetsujin]

If flunky is too weird, there's still the word "lackey". But yeah, "double" doesn't make any sense in English.
I don't know if it makes more sense to use that word to refer to lackeys in Japanese...

 

[DLPB]

Jesus, Sephiroth doesn't duplicate himself. He doesn't have duplicates.

FOR THE LAST TIME. HE DOES. In the scene beforehand and all through the temple of the ancients there are TWO of him animated (and 2 talking at same time). This MAYYY be coincidence. But it may well not be.

Now look:

1. Flunky is not a well known word in britain or ANYWHERE that I know of. maybe america....but that is all. Since this is an english game it should use a word that is well known. Flunky is NOT.

2.
1. A person of slavish or unquestioning obedience; a lackey.
2. One who does menial or trivial work; a drudge.
3. A liveried manservant.

None of these suggest a black robed person. In fact, no where in the game does it state they are actually WORKING FOR SEPHIROTH AS SERVANTS. They are merely following him around (and heading for the reunion).

Therefore, even referring to them as lackeys or servants is pretty much bogus. They are mindless clones heading for the reunion.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Flunky, Lacky, Crony, patsy, mook, etc. ALL of these words describe what the black cloaks are to Sephiroth.
Even describes what his jenova puppet is, though the party isn't aware of it then.

Seriously, FLUNKY ACCURATELY DESCRIBES THE SITUATION though it is not a literal word for word translation.

Those two sephiroths were not him at the same time. Note how they're translucent? Yeah.

 

[ForceStealer]

They aren't working for Sephiroth as servants, BUT CLOUD DOESN'T KNOW THAT!

As far as AVALANCHE knows, they're jsut a crazy cult following Sephiroth around!! Just because you understand the the entirety of the plot (which you clearly don't), you can't assume a new player does, because the game hasn't revealed it yet in a mandatory plot event.

 

[Strangelove]

hito just said it doesn't, it uses 分身, which means double. But double isn't used for Sephiroth copies.

What was the word used when Barret calls Cloud Sephiroth's shadow a few times? Was it shadow? (陰, though I kinda find that hard to believe)

For the scene in Mideel, Barret used 影 (セフィロスの影でしかないのかもしれねえんだぞ……). That's the only use of it, in the main script at least.

分身 can be used for more literal 'doubles' (illusionary copies/decoys of yourself, doppelgängers), but I don't think that it's being used literally here. At the end of the day, 'double' or anything else is just an English approximation of this Japanese word that might have different uses than those English approximations.

Her version says:

He doesnt have to throw his life away. Not "their"

Then that's also a mistake, since it makes specific mention to them (あいつら）.

 

[DLPB]

They aren't working for Sephiroth as servants, BUT CLOUD DOESN'T KNOW THAT!

As far as AVALANCHE knows, they're jsut a crazy cult following Sephiroth around!!

a crazy cult isnt a lackey or a servant and since they arent serving him....the word flunky cannot be used. I rest my case.

And I have decided. This will be changed, as soon as I have talked to another japanese person about this scene.

case closed.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No, Sephiroth does not duplicate himself. Jesus. It's a statement about the fact, that Sephiroth could manipulate one of the Sephiroth Copies to go, solve the puzzle, and then get the Black Materia from another Copy. It's about him using his copies as expandable tools. Sephiroth isn't making shadow clones like Naruto, and duplicating himself like Naruto. It was a visual representation of Sephiroth's body overflowing with power and excitement at the prospect of Meteor. By that logic, I guess Cloud also turns white and flashes when he gets his headaches too.

Dude. Flunky is well known, even in Britain. What are you talking about? I have no idea how a basic word, is so beyond the grasp of common everyday English, regardless of what side of the Atlantic. Give me a break.

And yes, they're his flunkies because they do what he commands them to do and without question. He manipulates them to do his bidding.

 

[ForceStealer]

Seriously, he isn't duplicating himself, if anything, it probably is more like when Kadaj starts flaring up during his speech in Advent Children.

And someone in a crazy cult could totally be a lackey, at Sephiroth's beck and call.

hitoshura's british, did you know what flunky refer to?

It's your translation, we can't stop you from putting in whatever you want. But are you gonna keep let's mosey? Cause that'd be stupid, because he sure as hell doesn't say "mosey" in Japanese, he says &#34892;&#12371;&#12358;, which just means let's go. By your logic you'd have to put that in, but in English it'll be confusing as to why Cid yells at him for that.

 

[Tetsujin]

How are they not his servants? Didn't a few of them say something like having to bring him the black materia?
One of them even asked Dio for it. So they are definitely doing his bidding.
For flunk's sake.

 

[Strangelove]

hitoshura's british, did you know what flunky refer to?

I do know what flunky means, and thought it was referring to the Copies in both languages.

Sephiroth isn't making shadow clones like Naruto, and duplicating himself like Naruto.

Actually, they do both use the same word as this

 

[DLPB]

No, Sephiroth does not duplicate himself.

Go and play the temple of the ancients again. You need to. Pay attention to the story and to the animations next time you do.

Dude. Flunky is well known, even in Britain.

I am a university graduate, and write small novels as a hobby. I had never heard of it and nor had anyone I know, esp on the last 5 forums. So obviously you are privvy to some kind of jenova cells yourself maybe? I reiterate, NOBODY I know , knew that word. The ONLY time I have encountered it in 25 years of life is on FF7...

Strange that eh

He manipulates them to do his bidding.

What bidding?

 

[Ryushikaze]

I do know what flunky means, and thought it was referring to the Copies in both languages.


Actually, they do both use the same word as this

Yeah, but he's not doing the same thing as the Ninja magic.

Though a 'stuck in sexy no jutsu' WOULD explain a lot...

While we're tossing out credentials here, monkey, I am ALSO a university graduate, have known of the word flunky since before I was ten, and have not met a single person who understood english who didn't understand what a flunky was.

 

[DLPB]

here, monkey, I am ALSO a university graduate, have known of the word flunky since before I was ten, and have not met a single person who understood english who didn't understand what a flunky was.

temper temper. Well, like I say, you must obviously be a very special sephiroth clone....since you know something that millions in my country don't. Nobody I know actually knows what it means without first having seen it on FF7 and THEN consulting a dictionary.

And that would tell you it is a rather vague scottish word.

In any case, if I didn't know what it meant, and nor did my cousins, mates and people on atlast 4-5 other forums....how do you feel the Italians got on?

hmmmm

oh and final word on this, flunky is a poor choice of word. It sounds as daft as it is, and it doesnt even sound like cloud. Referring to sephiroths "robed servants" would be more accurate if you are taking them as servants.

But that doesnt matter, since I am translating this game, I will do as I see fit, once I have consulted another japanese speaker to make sure.

The idea is having spoken to 3 , we will then get to the truth of what is best and that is what the project is designerd for. it isn't designed for a few people who take 1 word very seriously, to hassle me for 6 pages about something which isnt used in the japanese version anyway to any degree.

I will be back here when I have different quotes, I am sure you will be out to tell me how it all fits, despite the mistranslations....

 

[Ryushikaze]

temper temper.

You haven't seen me angry, monkey. It's not a happy thing to see.

Well, like I say, you must obviously be a very special sephiroth clone....since you know something that millions in my country don't.

And your country is?

Nobody I know actually knows what it means without first having seen it on FF7 and THEN consulting a dictionary.

I can't imagine why. Even without knowing that, context alone indicates odedient underlings are being spoken of.

And that would tell you it is a rather vague scottish word.

Which dictionary are you using? Yeah, that's the root, but how does your dictionary miss the common modern usage?

In any case, if I didn't know what it meant, and nor did my cousins, mates and people on atlast 4-5 other forums....how do you feel the Italians got on?

hmmmm

The italians with their alternate language to English speakers?

And not everybody knows that Flunky means. And? That doesn't make it a bad word to use.
Hell, most folks don't know what a pauldron is, but that's the proper term for a number of shoulder guards. Should we not use that word either?

How does 'Flunky' not 'sound like Cloud', exactly? Because you haven't heard the word?

Also, you're talking to no. 3

 

[Celes Chere]

I am a university graduate, and write small novels as a hobby. I had never heard of it and nor had anyone I know, esp on the last 5 forums.

No offense, but do you and these last five Forums live under rocks, or something? It actually is a bit weird that you have never heard of it before, and I'm being totally honest.

There comes a time... when you just have to admit when you're wrong, kay?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I am a university graduate, and write small novels as a hobby. I had never heard of it and nor had anyone I know, esp on the last 5 forums.

You have got to be kidding me.

 

[Channy]

Am I the only one in feeling that a retranslation takes away from a lot of character traits? Simply translating a game word for word is silly. And if they had wanted to do it, surely they would have the first time. Clearly there are implications, words, phrases and expressions in the text used, otherwise it wouldn't be there.

"then, why don't you keep on brooding"

to say "why don't you REALLY worry" does not fit in with this....and is a very poor translation.....but maybe if someone here looks at the japanese text we can make sure....

I think it does. Clearly she's teasing Cloud when he's done on himself to try and make light of the situation. To tell him to brood is a weird word to use, I can't imagine Aerith using brood, it's not in her character.

About this Cathy person... How can you trust someone who has told you that the original Japanese made a distinction between plural and singular when it's fairly common knowledge that there is no distinction between plural and singular in Japanese, and who translates "Kuraudo" as "Claude"? Does she really think they meant to name him Claude Strife?

This, heavily. To me it sounds like this Cathy person is German, with her using German names. Not all German people are as fluent in English like our Tettybear here is, so I wonder if she's just taking lines from the script and running it through Babelfish. Cause it looks like she is.

But using an S for Setra instead of just going with the C they used in the English version... That's just anal.

Also, this muchly.

"Psychic strength" doesn't really seem to be a good match for 'spirit energy' (and the translation in general seems to drop the 'spirit' throughout this scene). It uses 'Lifestream' where the original used 'the planet's energy' again. "You can't jump off a moving train" isn't as good a translation as the one the English game used (what I think it used, "there's no getting off this train we're on" or something?).

They replaced Spirit Energy? D; But that is so clearly the correct term. Who in FFVII is psychic? When is it ever mentioned? /rage

Also, Barret's line is epic, I can't understand why they wouldn't change that either. They must have changed every line of Barret's for it isn't a direct translation and most oftenly used slang because he's urban. He's not even Barret anymore. D;

Her translation is by far better than the original overall. I know, because I have gone through it all. Every bit.

Kudos? *golfer's clap*

The word is a poor choice. If it all made sense we wouldnt have 1 japanese translator changing the words and we wouldnt have numerous discussions about it on forums. The japanese version does not use the word gang/lackey/ it specifically says double or copy, a direct reference, according to our resident translator, to the black robes.

1 word not to use is flunkies. Most people don't even know what it means and I certainly had NO IDEA what it was referring to and nor did many others. Therefore, bottom line, the translation isnt fit for puprose in this case.

I don't think it is. And neither does anyone else since TLS pretty much understood flunkies, as well as ACF since it wasn't brought up before. And these 5 magic forums, how much credibility do they have? They could all simply be foreigners with no real grasp of the English language, or they could all consist of 10 people. We don't know. So I don't know why you keep bringing up the 5 forums other than to make your e-penor big by "knowing stuff".

FOR THE LAST TIME. HE DOES. In the scene beforehand and all through the temple of the ancients there are TWO of him animated (and 2 talking at same time). This MAYYY be coincidence. But it may well not be.

So then Cloud has a clone too considering he was split off from himself.

But really, wasn't the translucent Seph just Sephiroth's real will, coming out of Jenova and talking shit about the Planet? Considering that Cloud split himself into child Cloud (the REAL Cloud), I figured it was Sephiroth's will (see through Sephy) split off from Jenova who was masquerading as Sephiroth (solid Sephy)

oh and final word on this, flunky is a poor choice of word. .

Subjective opinion is subjective.

Basically, I have this to say about the whole thing... isn't everything technically a "translational error" if it isn't the word a translation generator will tell you? A lot of FFVII's charas talk in slang, be them urban (Barret), boonies (Cloud, Tifa) or hippie (Red XIII). Everyone was given a certain way to speak with certain slang words (aint) (mosey) (FLUNKIES) and to be literal when translating the script, you're dehumanizing them. You're basically taking the player out of the character, and turning them into a robot.

 

[ForceStealer]

Go and play the temple of the ancients again. You need to. Pay attention to the story and to the animations next time you do.

That's NOT. A. DUPLICATE. It's just to make him look powerful. His image gets doubled and is slightly behind his true movements, it's not splitting off and doing something. And as Channy says, Cloud does the SAME thing moments later. As I said before, think of it like when Kadaj starts spouting energy during his speech.

You're right, its your translation and you can do what you want, it's just sad that someone who thinks Sephiroth divides into copies like a bacteria has to do it. Not to mention someone that has never even HEARD of the word flunky.

Have you heard of the word mosey? That's not in common usage either.