Ultimania Alpha - Story Mode Summaries (Spoiler Warning)

[Nocturne]

then again though, Squall did start to open up and let people back into his life at the end of FF8 =P but with Rinoamecia being there, who knows.

 

[Makoeyes987]

[quote author=Nocturne link=topic=72.msg835#msg835 date=1228542588]
then again though, Squall did start to open up and let people back into his life at the end of FF8 =P but with Rinoamecia being there, who knows.
[/quote]

Yeah, but who says Squall is going to be nice, open up and let strangers he's never met before into his life? He doesn't know any of these characters.

And Rinoamecia? Whats that?

 

[Nocturne]

true true

Well, you do know Ultimecia was Rinoa, so it's just a play on words =P

 

[Schala-Kitty]

I found and added in the "Chapter Titles" for each character. But I can post 'em again here -

1. Guided by the Light

2. To Finish a Dream

3. A Boy with Pride in his Heart

4. The Lunar Knights

5. A Journey, Courage, and a Friend

6. Who is does this Power Benefit?

7. Predestination

8. A Lion Wandering the Wasteland

9. The Investigation of Life

10. The Way to Continue to Tomorrow

 

[Makoeyes987]

[quote author=Nocturne link=topic=72.msg848#msg848 date=1228544491]
true true

Well, you do know Ultimecia was Rinoa, so it's just a play on words =P
[/quote]

Wha? No she wasn't....

That's an old theory that's debunked by the FFVIII Ultimania and based on baseless speculation. For one, Sorceresses are not immortal. They have normal, human life spans. So for Rinoa to become Ultimecia is impossible because the era Ultimecia lives in is far beyond Rinoa's. There's no way she'd become Ultimecia. And why would she? Ultimecia is just a bitter, evil and vengeful sorceress who wanted to evade her inevitable death by Squall's hand.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/34215

Squall_of_SeeD's faq on FFVIII and Ultimecia presents it far better than I can in this single post. But long story short, Ultimecia is not Rinoa, and neither the story, nor the subsequent materials state that.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I'm not worried at all about his portrayal in Dissidia since it doesn't seem like they're getting his character wrong at all. Cloud isn't an optimistic person. It's just a fact. It's not a failing. Neither was Cecil, or Terra. If you want optimism and cheer, you go to Bartz and Zidane They got Cloud's character right given his life experiences

I was on board until it was specifically stated that Cloud is going to be 'depressed' again. I mean, I understand Cloud is more of a 'down low, chill' person that's not optimistic, but can't he be in a conflict without being depressed for once? Depressed is quite a strong word and state of being. It's like Square consistently tosses his character development in the toilet.

 

[Isabella]

Will we ever see the "let's mosey" Cloud again?

 

[Makoeyes987]

You honestly can't even tell the context of Cloud's character development until you actually play or see the game, so how can you say his character development went into the toilet? That's silly.

Especially considering that based on the circumstances, it's pretty unlikely he'd be happy or very positive with being ripped from his universe in the first place. And it's not like he's the only character who's unhappy being confronted with difficult challenges he thought he finished. It's making a mountain out of a mole hill that technically hasn't even been constructed yet. Just like Cecil and Tidus, Cloud is not happy seeing the adversary that he thought was behind him. It's depressing. It's like the fighting never stops. Especially given the dark history Sephiroth holds for him. Sephiroth is a symbol of Cloud's most painful portion of his life, period. It's going to dredge up some negative feelings, and if it didn't, it'd make no sense. Cloud felt resolution and happiness at finally never having to see Sephiroth again, and finally having him stay in his memories.

But low and behold...he'll never be a memory.

And no one's even mentioning the final part of the description that states that after talking and drawing strength from his new companions he gets over it and moves on. Talk about selective reading

Every character is going to face the drama regarding their own personal nemesis and inner turmoil the nemesis causes. It's repeated with every other FF character in Dissidia.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

But every other protagonist has to deal with the whole 'I thought that guy was dead what the hell' thing going on in Dissidia. But Cloud is the only one that Square seemed fit to use the word 'depressed'.

And no one's even mentioning the final part of the description that states that after talking and drawing strength from his new companions he gets over it and moves on.

Wait where does it say that? Did I miss something? ???

 

[Makoeyes987]

Cecil's confused, conflicted and sad at fighting his brother again, Warrior of Light is suffering from a crisis of faith, Tidus is unhappy and resentful at having to fight his father again, and Terra is afraid and uneasy at having to use her magical powers again.

You're fixating on the word depressed when just about every other character in this game is going through some sort of personal angst because it's Cloud and you're letting your preconceived notions of Cloud being portrayed as "too depressed" cloud the obvious fact that yes, Cloud is going to be depressed when confronted with the same nemesis who murdered his family, burned his home town, caused him to lose his mind, killed a person closest to him, had him nearly bring about the end of the world, and nearly killed him by giving him super AIDs while he was trying to start a new life.

No way in hell Cloud isn't going to feel a pang of depression and the feeling of "what's the fighting for" when no matter where he turns Sephiroth somehow finds a way to sneak back into his life every time he thinks he's free. But the whole point is that Cloud doesn't let those feelings bog him down. He never breaks. He may fold, and he may get depressed, but he picks himself up, gets his ass together, and kicks ass in the end when it matters. The fact he's depressed again shouldn't even matter. The fact that he gets over it, and once again realizes his purpose for fighting thanks to the help of new friends he's just met, clearly shows that not only is he adaptable and resilient, but he'll never give up, no matter how sad the situation is. This isn't just Tifa and his old friends giving him a boost, he's making bonds and connections with people he's never met before. That shows a growth in character that's never been shown before.

And it makes sense. He's not being the obtuse, taciturn loner as shown in KH2. He isn't running away from his problems. He's fighting with the best of the heroes and doing his best. And that's what I'm looking forward to seeing in Dissidia.

Wait where does it say that? Did I miss something?

Cloud ~ "Predestination": While he finds Firion, Cecil, and Tidus to be reliable enough as comrades, Cloud finds himself becoming depressed. Why is he fighting? How long will he continue fighting? But he finds himself still struggling to find and understand those answers. Then, Cloud finds a clue amid a discussion with his comrades. However, a "shadow" form his past seeks to block his progress.

Cloud finds a clue to the answer to his question...Why is he fighting, thanks to the help of his new comrades. He gets help in finding his reason to fight, thanks to the new experiences he's going to have with the other members of his group. Cloud's asking a legitimate question. "Why all the fighting when it just keeps happening over and over again?" But somehow, he finds the answer, and its through his team members he gets the first clue.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Ah fuck it, you're right.

You have to understand, I'm still kinda bitter with the dicking that Square did Cloud's character in Advent Children.

 

[Makoeyes987]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=72.msg965#msg965 date=1228603397]
Ah fuck it, you're right.

You have to understand, I'm still kinda bitter with the dicking that Square did Cloud's character in Advent Children.
[/quote]

Well that's understandable and fair enough

But I always like to remember the last half hour when he rides into Edge, kicks ass, cocks a smirk while fighting Kadaj, ends it with Sephiroth and finally smiles at the end when he makes it home. It's the part I love most.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah, I never really minded Cloud's personality as a whole, in fact, I liked the whole 'Ugh I'd rather be elsewhere but if you really want me to, I guess I'll kick some ass *kicks ass*', reluctant, introverted personality that Cloud has developed thoughout the Compilation. From a literary perspective though, I sometimes find myself concerned that Square can handle writing Cloud's personality without having him have to be depressed to flesh it out in a story.

 

[Nocturne]

Wha? No she wasn't....

That's an old theory that's debunked by the FFVIII Ultimania and based on baseless speculation. For one, Sorceresses are not immortal. They have normal, human life spans. So for Rinoa to become Ultimecia is impossible because the era Ultimecia lives in is far beyond Rinoa's. There's no way she'd become Ultimecia. And why would she? Ultimecia is just a bitter, evil and vengeful sorceress who wanted to evade her inevitable death by Squall's hand.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/34215

Squall_of_SeeD's faq on FFVIII and Ultimecia presents it far better than I can in this single post. But long story short, Ultimecia is not Rinoa, and neither the story, nor the subsequent materials state that.

So far Im not agree with this Seed of Squall person. He seems to be speculating just as much as I am.

There's no reason to assume this to be the case, for starters.
Edea's face certainly looks more developed and mature than those of Ellone,
Selphie, Quistis, or Rinoa. She certainly has the appearance of a woman at
least in her thirties. For that matter, even if she didn't, there's little
reason to assume she wouldn't have married an older man.

This is about the immortality thing. First off, who's to say Edea aged at all. Everytime we see her, she does look the same. Going by the way she looked is a poor way to debunk immortality.

A strong point that may support the theory, but on its own doesn't
do so, if only because SeeD fights and defeats 13 Witches during the game, all
of whom die either immediately after being dealt a fatal blow or shortly
thereafter. If such a concept of remaining as long as was desired were
present, it seems more reasonable to assume that the story would have made a
point of demonstrating it. In fact, the story does the opposite, as the whole
idea of a "succession of witches," so important in the game, directly implies
that sorceresses cannot stick around for as long as they want.

This is about sorceresses and dying in piece. Once again, this doesnt prove nor debunk the theory.

This segment suffers from the usual problem that most points in
the theory do: A lack of support for the notion. Now, although you might
think that these three points for a Witch having extended lifespan are strong
together, this is simply not the case, as will be seen in the end of this
section

.

About witches and Hyne. Once again, not enough evidence to debunk or prove.

These are good points, which I cannot find fault with. On their
own, they don't prove -- or even suggest -- the immortality of Witches, but
coupled with a strong suggestion that the concept is plausible, they would
certainly support the notion.

It should also be kept in mind, though, that Witches have a natural instinct
to want to choose a successor that they feel is fitting for the power. As the
game's tutorial says, they avoid spreading their powers too thin:

Sorceress

The legend goes that the Great Hyne created people. The sorceresses were
given a fragment of Hyne's own power. It's hard to determine how many
sorceresses exist today, for many keep their powers concealed. However, it is
believed that they avoid spreading their power too thin.

On witches and appearances - He even admits these are good points. Though he says it doesnt prove it, but it does give more evidence for it than against.

Wings and feathers are a motif of the main Witches in the game.
Edea's dress has black feathers around the collar, Adel has two spiky
wing-like protrusions extending from her back, Rinoa has her white feathery
wings, and Ultimecia has her black, somewhat spiny, feathered wings. With this
in mind, all that's represented here is a connection between Witches, not a
connection between Rinoa and Ultimecia alone. The connection between Rinoa
and Ultimecia is that their wings are black and white, representing good and
evil, opposing representations of these concepts, and opposite representations
of the use of the Witch Embodiment.

Edea's dress has black feathers around the collar of her collar. Not wings.

The main point of this though is that Ultimecia's wings are very similar to Rinoa's the most similar. It doesnt prove on it own, but it does help support.

During the final battle with Ultimecia, her words may illustrate that she
believes that the things one cares about will slip away from them inevitably,
as Squall and Rinoa's other friends would have were she immortal:

"Reflect on your..."
"Childhood..."
"Your sensation..."
"Your words..."
"Your emotions..."
"Time..."
"It will not wait..."
"No matter..."
"...how hard you hold on."
"It escapes you..."


This may have been an attempt on Rinoa's part to reach out to Squall.

*Response*:

Considering that Ultimecia makes no **other** attempt to "reach
out to Squall" during the game, merely trying to kill him each time she
encounters him instead, it's hardly plausible that she's suddenly doing that
at this point. For that matter, it's not even clear what Ultimecia's really
talking about here. She may be talking about time itself. It may be a
roundabout way of her telling them that their defeat is inevitable.
Personally, I think it most likely another reference to everything having been
fated, even from Squall and the others' childhoods. Whatever it is, there's
nothing to suggest it to have anything to do with Squall or to suggest that
this is Rinoa talking.

Here I highly disagree. Ultimecia is defeated here. Ive seen many stories where when you defeat an enemy, their strongest, or true personality shines through at the end for their dying words. It definitely could have been the "real" Rinoa trying to get a message across. Explaining why she became what she became. This would explain why she was attacking them at first and was disillusioned until her final moments.

Certainly an interesting take on the ending FMV, and one that
could serve as compelling evidence if coupled with other strong support for
the theory. On its own, however, or even coupled with the matter of the name
"Artemisia," it's not enough to form a strong case. As things stand, it seems
to require already assuming that Rinoa is Ultimecia in order to conclude that
the scene was intended to infer something of that nature, but there's nothing
to dismiss it as a possible indication if there is otherwise strong support
for the notion.

One already assuming Rinoa is Ultimecia? You could say the same for trying to debunk a theory assuming Rinoa isnt Ultimecia. The face flashing over at the times it does seems a little more than just flashing there to show Ultimecia.


There are other things that I dont have time to go over right now. Expect a post from me examining all of this in depth some time in the future. I dont know when, but their "debunking" sounds to me to be just as plausible as Rinoa being Ultimecia. Personally, I think she is and this didnt change my mind from what I read.

 

[ForceStealer]

[quote author=Isabella link=topic=72.msg941#msg941 date=1228593303]
Will we ever see the "let's mosey" Cloud again? [/quote]

We have, that's who he was in Dirge of Cerberus. He didn't have many lines, but he came off as cool and confident.

Vincent: "What about you guys?" [Will you be all right?]
Cloud: "What do you think?"

That said, when Cloud comes in at the end and destroys the reactor. He calls in saying "Sorry about the wait." But I was PRAYING that he was gonna say "Let's mosey." That would have been awesome, lol.

Anyway, you've convinced me Mako, it does make sense. And as you know I had no problem with him being depressed in Advent Children, it made sense. But if he's depressed in the chronological sequel to Dirge, THEN I'll be annoyed.

 

[Makoeyes987]

@Nocturne

You've neglected the main, conclusive points from the creators in reading that faq. Squall_of_SeeD quotes more concrete materials...those were only his logical and parsimonious musings. The FFVIII Ultimania specifically states that Sorceresses have a normal human lifespan. The entire crux of the theory of Rinoa being Ultimecia, relies on Rinoa being immortal.

Sorceresses

Said to have existed from time immemorial to the present day, the sorceresses
are women who are said to have received their powers from the old god, Hyne.
There is, however, no hard evidence to support this claim. Extraordinarily
powerful, many sorceresses have harboured ambitions to rule over the world --
as a result, many people have come to equate the Sorceress with fear. However,
there are also many Sorceresses who have chosen to live a quiet life sheltered
away from civilized society; as such, the actual number of Sorceresses and the
amount of power shared between them remains unknown.

The potential to become a sorceress is determined by one's capacity to wield
such power -- their natural affinity for magic. This factor helps to determine
Sorceress candidates for when a Sorceress passes on all of her power into the
next Sorceress. The giving and receiving of power can be made between any two
individuals -- it not necessary for them to be related by blood. A Sorceress's
lifespan is the same as a normal human's, however they cannot die until they
have passed on their power to the next Sorceress."

That's straight from the creators there. Then, Selphie's epilogue diary entry pretty much explains what Ultimecia's goal was throughout the entire game.

Latest Diary Entry (Public)

QUOTE Latest Diary Entry (Public)Finally, we arrived at Ultimecia’s castle. Inside, there were a lot of traps waiting for us! Our futures were hinged in the balance – could we do this?…you know, I just thought of something right now. What was Ultimecia thinking? She was trying to survive in the only way she knew how, I think. Was she trying to reach all the way out to the past to compress time, so that she could try to erase the fate she knew was in store for her…? Thinking about it that way, maybe what I’m writing is one-sided.Okay, moving on! If any of you want to ask me in person, I’ll always be around! Think of it as a treat from your local, friendly Garden Festival Committee Director!Oh, and I wanted to talk about Seifer too. I know a lot of people might still be harbouring a grudge against him, but he’s got nowhere to go, so I feel sorry for him. He lost his sanity back then (Hmm…), so let’s just leave him alone, okay? Fujin and Raijin, too. Okay?Aaah! I can’t believe it’s this time already! The party’s going to start soon! The video camera’s not even done charging yet! I’ve got to change, too! Hurry! Until next time!

Nothing whatsoever in FFVIII or its Ultimania states that Ultimecia or Rinoa bear any connection whatsoever, and it all lies in that theory that somehow Rinoa lives forever into the future, which simply is not possible.

If you'd like to discuss it further, please make a new thread about it in the general FF section so we can continue there. It'd be great to continue our discussion, but I don't want to continue to post off topic here.

 

[Nocturne]

cool cool. Im studying for finals now anyways so the discussion will have to wait I suppose. I guess I gotta take some of this stuff at face value, so I guess I can see where both sides are coming from. I can still think of a few reasons why it may be her, but it shall wait.

XD it would be kinda funny though if they have an alternate costume for Ultimecia as Rinoa.

 

[Ryushikaze]

You literally have to take sorceresses having normal human lifespans at face value since it is creator fiat.

The rest of the Rinny= Ulti claim is baseless or ridiculously circumstantial at best. It is certainly insufficient to support the extraordinary claim that Rinoa is Ultimecia.

Of course, such discussion belongs in the General FF section, does it not?

Also, I'm curious to see Cecil's story. Is Dissidia's Cecil set immediately post FFIV, or closer to the events of The After?

 

[Schala-Kitty]

Ryu, I was trying to figure that out myself. If I was to make a guess, I would think that Cecil and Golbez are pulled from the gap between Zemus' defeat and Cecil's coronation.

 

[Heartway]

[quote author=Ryushikaze link=topic=72.msg999#msg999 date=1228632323]
Also, I'm curious to see Cecil's story. Is Dissidia's Cecil set immediately post FFIV, or closer to the events of The After?
[/quote]

A part of me wants to think that it takes place at least a couple months after the end of IV, right now. But I could be wrong, as I'm thrown off by the fact that Cecil can go from Dark Knight to Paladin at will. Also, judging from the state of everyone else (I can only assume that everyone crash landed in this Between World they're shown in.), they're still in their original game attire, so they most likely didn't have time to settle down and chage into normal person clothes (i.e Cloud in VII, Terra in VI etc etc.).

 

[Fighter]

To be honest I don't have much faith they are going to do a new spin on 'depressed' Cloud. It's going to be the same crap, he's haunted by the "shadow of his past" and he'll end up fighting "for his present". And it'll be like AC and KH2 all over gain, only substitute "darkness" for "shadow".

 

[Tetsujin]

So where do you think the heroes come from anyway?
Do you think they have just been ripped out of their worlds or do you think it's more along the lines of, they're all long since gone and their souls were restored for this epic final battle?

I'd like to think of the latter, since it'd be weird having someone like Cloud return to Gaia and he'd be all like "Hey Tifa, how was your day? Good? That's fine, mine was interesting too. Yeah there was this goddess and I was taken away to another dimension and I fought Sefferoff again LOL"

 

[Purple]

The latter is more plausible. It'd be weird to have them ripped off from their worlds

Or it could be like Kingdom Hearts. AU and stuff.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Maybe it's just me, but I never looked at it like they were ever canonically 'ripped' from their worlds. I look at it like a 'what if' type of thing, similar to Marvel vs. Capcom; where their backstories, character, and personalities all apply, but it's just a mish mash of an imaginative 'what if we got them all together' sort of thing.

 

[looneymoon]

Yeah, I think Nomura may have mentioned in an interview somewhere that the original games won't be affected in thier continuity or anything. So it's pretty much AU like The Notorious MOG stated.

I can't seem to find the interview quote, but I'm sure it exists somewhere... ???